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Will the new ranked items be usable in trammel?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Nystul, Oct 7, 2008.

  1. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    Will the new items/properties be usable in trammel? This whole faction re-vamp is nice and everything and will bring some more people out to pvp, but for how long?

    Are people going to get thier ranks, farm thier silver, get thier items and never participate in factions again and just continue using/wearing thier items in trammel?

    Is there some sort of point/rank delay etc. involved? I haven't done factions in over 5 years or something and I can't remember crap about em.
     
  2. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    If they allow players to use these items in trammel... they better open up Trammel to faction fighting.

    People are just going to take 2nd accounts and join 5 chars to factions for 3 days while the character they want kills all 5 characters.... then rinse and repeat... stack the points high enough to get the faction rank you want then get the items... then go to trammel and use them but never have to risk a damn thing.


    If they open up Trammel to faction fighting... then for damn sure this will at least curb those who will exploit it for NO risk... although, I have NO idea how they would be able to stop the point hording...

    maybe make it so the only way you can have a rank is if your faction owns a town... now THAT would make guarding/raiding sigils actually mean something.
     
  3. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    As I posted in the Faction Forum ... I am assuming that you will have to buy these things from faction vendors. That means your faction has to own at least one town and have the silver to place the vendors. These items are going to break. You can't use powder on them, and they can only be recharged (something else you have to buy from the vendors) so many times. So you will have to rinse/repeat the above, as well. Make sure your faction owns at least one town, has silver to place the vendors, etc.

    Some people will try to do it the easy way ... then they will realize the real work involved and will either love it or leave it. Now, on smaller shards that may not be the case, but it is hard to say just yet.

    Example: On Napa there is one person in TB, an "import" PvP guild in Minax, and a small guild in SL. The Minax guys are currently farming points/ranks on their own chars, but they don't tend to keep hold of the towns. All the rank in the world wont help them if we (SL) make it a point to keep hold of the towns. However, if they put the work into keeping the towns all the time, there isnt much we could do and then it would be easy picking for them. Bigger shards don't necessarily work that way, tho.
     
  4. Gwendar-SP

    Gwendar-SP Guest

    People will use the advantage to better murder non-faction players.
     
  5. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    What you will see is a bunch of heros joining up with the faction which already has a huge advantage on your shard in order to collect the new pixels.
     
  6. Diggity

    Diggity Guest

    I'm sure the devs have given kill farming some thought. Maybe items not usable in tram is one.

    Beyond people who have 2 or more accounts, what's to stop xshard faction farming ala xshard holiday trading items? I create throwaway faction chars on your shard and you on mine. Multiply by shards and acccounts and it seems ideal for easy no risk faction kills farming. If neither xsharder really cares about factions and is only doing this for gaining kills/ranks to get and use items, they could just join the dominant faction on each shard. Then retire to the safety of a private house/area and allow themselves to be killed for points.

    Yeah it seems like a lot of trouble, but compared to getting the kills legitimately, it appears easy and no risk.
     
  7. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Another thing to think about. You can't get faction silver in Tram. Anyone know where a high volume of Wisps are in Fel? Oaks spawn .... (there are a couple more places, but not in the range of "farming" volumes.)

    Silver serpents in Fel? Rat spawn ...

    Demons will be easier to farm ... but what if the top faction on your shard happens to be SL?

    Sure, people are gonna sell some silver ... but do you want to pay the prices they are going to be charging?

    Ogre Lords in Fel? Despise ... same level as the champ spawn. Hmm.

    Just some thoughts to ponder. I did champs all day long for several weeks on a faction character ... I think I had a total of 6k silver by the end of it ...
     
  8. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    That was my concern when I first read this....... basically how is this going to be exploited by people who have no desire to be active in factions.

    I would love it if they just opened faction fighting on all the shards. Of course this would also mean that they would have to let reds leave Fel.

    One can dream can't they?
     
  9. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Oh and another exploit I'm going to love...


    Watching people put dummy characters that are trained into enemy factions and start attacking those people. If the person they are attacking retaliates and kills that person... they lose ALL of their kill points.


    They really thought this faction rank stuff through.

    Yay.
     
  10. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I believe what you are talking about (i.e., losing kill points for attacking members of the same faction) is unique to Siege Perilous.
     
  11. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Something that came up discussing this in vent tonight ... an idea may be to give the items durability AND the 3 week faction item timer - whichever comes first. I know I can burn thru armor in a day if I am not careful ... suppose others can, too.
     
  12. Cerwin Vega

    Cerwin Vega Lore Keeper
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    Your faction rank does decay... In all these posts im suprized no one has posted this. I got a faction horse before and had my friend join a different faction then i killed him got lvl 2 and was able to ride the horse... Next day i jump off the horse and cant get back on cause i dont have high enough lvl so i go kill him again and i get no lvl points cause i killed him not long ago. I thinks once get the items they will quickly start to cry about how fast their lvls go away and will want the decay rate changed.
     
  13. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    Faction rank is, and has been for a long time, completely broken. Your rank does not always decay, and if it does, it doesn't always decay correctly. Farming points would easily bypass the decay. Not only would you be able to get as many points as you want but being in trammel it will take for ever for those points to decay. The bottom line is they really need to look into fixing the ranks if they are going to base the amount of items you can use or if they can use them off your rank.

    You can give me all the examples you want of how fast you lost points but I've been in factions every day since they have been implemented. I have been on every side of the inaccurate rank system. I've joined factions with a character and immediately been given rank 10 with 0 points. Not only that but that character did not ever lose that rank until I transfered him to another shard. I've had characters defaulted to all rank levels and even had characters that were bugged and could not get higher ranks even though I had the highest point total on the shard. The system is just trashed right now.

    With that being said,, people will still be able to farm points, buy one of the artifacts and scoot back to tram and have zero hassle for many weeks before having to refarm points.

    Also, as Ailish pointed out, there should be the 3 week timer on the items. If there isn't people will just buy 20 of each item in case their faction loses the towns. If there was no faction timer than these people would stock pile and never need to worry about the towns, not for many weeks /months that is..

    And than we cannot forget the front running. Now that there is no faction population cap people can just join any faction that is winning and buy up the items. Once that faction loses the towns, they have 3 days to leave, rejoin the winning faction and buy the items for the other faction...
     
  14. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    And yet in my thread people disputed it was possible to exploit the system..

    I do hope they are right, though I also hope they are reading this and noticing all the -justified- negativity towards the Faction Items.

    I doubt it though.. This system will be highly exploitable, a fact I'm going to enjoy just to be able to compete with the Faction item abusers that will attack non-F players.

    There was an argument in my Vent server about this.. someone said in the older days people got OPed items in Factions like Blessed Spears Of Power etc. Well where's the OPed? Spears of Power were not something a regular PvPer would use because they'd lose it but it was just that, simply Blessed.

    Make it like that, yes? Just Blessed versions of the listed items. No need to add extra properties. I mean what else would Facts want? Free PvP! No insure! Well almost. Still a big bonus, to kill non-Fact players and gain 5k insure only to lose 1k yourself.. or whatever.
     
  15. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Agreed!

    Devs- Keep this crap off Siege. We don't need further pvp imbalances. Factioners don't just fight other factioners. Furthermore, the ranking system is borked AND we still have the poor game design problem Draconi commented on. The one where a faction player joins the faction of his enemy, with the soul purpose of making those with kill points, lose them. This person runs naked... redlines himself, runs up to a dexxer, flags, dies and the NON-agressor loses his kill points. Rinse and repeat and eventuall all kill points are gone.

    We need incentives for people to want to fight for towns on Siege, not items that will imbalance pvp for everyone else.
     
  16. Multani

    Multani Journeyman
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    Your just now worrying about pvp imbalances on siege? The whole shard is a joke.
     
  17. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    You are quite incorrect on many levels.

    1 Siege is not a joke.
    2 Kat has been involved with Siege and how some of these changes affect Siege for years.

    Watch your tone sir.
     
  18. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    QFT

    The Devs need to take another look at this idea before adding even MORE ITEMS into the game.

    Instead of adding more content to pvp, they may just kill it if this system is as exploitable as it seems.
     
  19. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    It just hit me how flat-out bizarre this fear is.

    So people out there actually think that Trammies like myself are going to participate in Factions to get items that we can bring back to Trammel and PvM with? When high-end gear is, while very helpful in PvM, nowhere near as essential as it is in PvP?

    Frankly, if people want to kill Faction enemies, control cities (which is going to be necessary to place a vendor to buy the new items from), steal sigils and then guard them for 10 hours, kill faction monsters to get silver, work and defend champ spawns to get scrolls to make themselves more effective at killing Faction enemies......If people want to go through that, then what, if any, is the rational reason to care if they leave Fel for 3 days to PvM, only to return to fight for the cities again? They are still participating fully, regardless of what they do during the 3-day off period.

    It's not the Trammies who are going to game the system (by having friends in an opposing faction, for example), it's Fellies who PvP for reasons other than Factions. PvM is just not enough of an incentive to go through all the trouble to get these, legitimately or illegitimately. On the other hand, in PvP these items will be essential, and it'll be non-Faction PvPers who have the incentive to either work for these items legitimately or game the system.

    -Galen's player
     
  20. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    There is a problem with how factions records rank and kill points. I've had some characters join a faction, die, wait a day, and go up in rank! while characters in an equally dead faction lose kill points and drop a rank down to nothing despite being the only person in the faction having a point (as shown on UO.com).

    It is possible to game the system. I hate to say I killed an alt of mine on another account to get another point so I could become faction leader for a day to reset the tithe rate down from the 100% Screw You Tax set by an alt of another faction.

    I think fixing these problems might be a good idea before adding uber gear to the mix.

    I have a few questions. The first question I have is that since these items are only useable by the character that purchased them, are they blessed? Do they count toward the limited number of faction items a character can wear? If they aren't blessed, and someone forgets to insure, will it be possible to loot them (for home decoration maybe)?

    I think the Trammel problem isn't a big deal. All these items will have durabilility. All of them will require special silver-costing powder to repair them instead of cheap repair deeds. Why they didn't find a way to make repairs work with faction crafting is beyond me (like special faction repair deeds that require silver), but that still prevents people from just grabbing these items and heading home to Trammel.

    I also don't get the problem with people using good faction items to PvM. Fashion police aside, why do you care what people are using THEIR gear for? If my faction mage wants to do a little scribing wearing a runebeetle carapace that just happens to be a little more awesome, why do you care? Are you concerned that Trammies will fill the factions with people so Minax's fortress is no longer your private little club house? Why does it matter if people use these items in Trammel?

    Using the items in Felucca on non-faction people, that is another story...
     
  21. Rubican

    Rubican Guest

    A few issues/questions with the new arties:
    FoF says buy from collection box? So no need for faction vendor/or to actually hold a town? - I think they are missing a reason to actually play factions.

    Some of the new items (orny, crimson) do not wear out - will these be the same for faction equivalant?