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Winterhawk's Economy of Percentages Model

Discussion in 'UHall' started by RavenWinterHawk, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. Aside from offering ways to save UO and have it played more as I wish, I have decided to fix the economy in 10 steps or less.

    Please hold your applause.

    And dont respond if you dont understand this is a virtual economy with an unlimited supply of gold.


    Step 1
    Write code that totals the total amount of gold on each shard.

    Step 2
    Write code that changes gold to

    ATLANTIC gold
    PACIFIC gold
    SONOMA gold

    Gold can no longer be transfered freely. Gold now transfers at 50%. The cost of conversion.

    Step 3
    Change loot tables to % of gold in the economy.
    Monsters now spawn .0003 x AGITE (amount of gold in the economy). This is an example. Dragons get a higher percentage. Mongbats a lower percentage. This will allow new players to kill and collect gold the old way. The Amount of gold loot will rise and fall based on the gold in the economy.

    Step 4
    Change NPC prices from set prices to % of gold in the community. Same as 3.
    No longer will black pearl be 3 gold. It will be BP = .00000001 x AGITE. It will flucuate. Now the NPC gold sink is balanced with the gold in the community.

    Step 5
    Introduce housing basements. The cost is 25 million per level. You can have levels based on account age/2. The basements are not transferable. The basements come in nothing but a square room and flooring and are accessed by a teleport tile. *because people like to decorate and it is damn expensive to dig basements once the house is built.

    Step 6
    Create the wheel of donations. There is no gambling you donate 1 million gold and are giving a prize. The wheel spins selecting a prize based on all items that spawn as rare rewards. *because people like to gamble but you cant gamble so you are rewarded for a donation.


    Step 7
    Create player vendor markets/flea markets in each town. Much like markets you see in the real world. Players and guilds can buy x amount of vendors and set up their own markets. The cost 25k per vendor a week to maintain plus all the typical costs. *cause you all hate luna

    Step 8
    Check fees of 10k per check made and cashed. % ofcourse. 10k is for 1 million. Less for smaller checks. *ah someone in the realm is backing the checks.

    Step 8
    Like the Britannia Ship. Make more account bound donation items that can be traded, only used as symbol of status. These things would die with the account. I would suggest armoured mounts, that cost a lot of gold and become account bound. I WANT MORE STATUS.

    Step 9
    Gold and gold checks are removed from the game when a house decays.

    Step 10
    Track the names of the players that disagree with this and ban them from the game. They are the scripters, cheaters, hackers... no just kidding but sacrifices are needed. Change is never easy. We just have to get over ourselves.

    Applause allowed.

    Thank You.
     
  2. and the unintended consequence is?
    :scholar:Show me the board ! Bing!

    RMT $per gp goes UP ...:thumbdown:
     
  3. IM dumb. RMT please.

    Real Money Transaction?

    That is all relative Fay. 1 million for $30 bucks or 30 million for $30 bucks. There is no gain.


    IF that is what RMT is.

    Look at it this way. Tangle today 15 million. Gold cost $1 per million. Tangle with my genius ideas. Tangle cost 7.5 million. Gold cost $2 per million. All relative.

    The buyer of gold for real cash gets more buying power for the fake gold.
     
  4. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    If things were priced based relative to the total amount of gold on a shard couldn't that ultimately serve as a stumbling block to new players?
     
  5. YES BUT, I forget what number it is, the gold found on MONSTERs becomes a % too. So the new player can get more on the monster. Instead of static gold loot tables they become % based.
     
  6. ohmyGED

    ohmyGED Visitor

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    I understand virtual economy. I also understand how difficult it is to develop code after it is already in place. Changing things of this magnitute and scope would be incredibly difficult to implement. (And by things, I mean elements that already exist within the code)

    Adding the new gold sinks, however, would be a great idea. But also, that is a large development effort.

    Interesting idea. I'm pretty neutral. I think the loot system and inflation of gold needs to be reviewed in general...but not sure what the best options are to resolve the current state or economy.
     
  7. I know changing the code is hard but that just cant be the block that we get thrown in our face all time. I am not disagreeing just saying work is work. Work hard on significant change and less on pretty dyes.
     
  8. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper
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    HHmm, interesting idea, but your step Zero would have to be - Wipe all gold and checks from every shard, or allow a max of say 10 million per character.

    Far too much money is already in circulation, due to dupes, scripting, and good old fashioned hunting for nearly a decade and a half. :(
     
  9. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    It's just time to add a new currency in the game. Since they like to add pixels may as well. Add copper, platinum, and zinc . Make gold the lowest in currency and have platinum your highest.
     
  10. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    But with your said system i could tranfer my 20 billion to a shard and kill dark fathers for a 2 million gold reward then transfer back to a shard that has 2 billion in total and my 2 million per kill would be equal to 2 billion on a very populated shard, then buy items transfer back and make a freeking killing.

    If shard transfer didnt excist it would be a good idea but atm its very flawed

    Thunderz
     
  11. I am okay with that but the new currency would have to be balance as I outlined as PERCENTAGES. If not you would just recreate the wheel.

    The other problem is... gold would be converted to ORES or WOODS or resources. Then you would have to use silver to buy the ORES.

    Prices would need to be in different values and so on.
     
  12. Hmm you might be right but I dont understand.

    If you took 20 billion to a shard it would be converted to 10 billion. That is expensive. But a gold sink. NOW REMEMBER you all can transfer items to your hearts content. You can move shards and work hard and do events and get stuff and bring it back.

    Now I dont understand the 2 million per kill. Where is that coming from.

    Then you would transfer back and lose more gold. So gold isnt the issue. Is the item somehow more valuable?
     
  13. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Hmm. Perhaps...

    But…how does that really fix the economy? We're already at the point where billions are held by a few dozen people per shard. (The notion that the majority of players have 100m+ is ludicrous) Without getting that gold out of the economy, and thus the extreme buying power of a few, the gold basically just changes hands amongst the minority.

    NPC prices really only affect those who buy from them to begin with…the ‘new player.’ Most veteran players generally have little need/desire to purchase from them.

    The open spigot influx of gold is the true culprit for a screwed up economy, seconded by virtual greed.
     
  14. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    If your gold in possesion got converted to the shard you transfer to current currency stat then yeah thats ok, i was looking at it as my 20 billion is 20 billion what ever shard im on, so on atl id be ok on something like LA id be a multi multi trillionair.

    Thunderz
     
  15. That would have to be a secret because everyone would convert there gold to other items. It would have to be a stealth operation.
     
  16. It would take time. You cant kill the idea because of those that have. The idea isnt necessarily to decrease gold down to yesterdays level but balance it so costs match it. Newbs can get more gold off monsters. NPCs can sell prices and reflected economy rates. Other gold sinks would dwindle away. Time would be on our side.

    Now we might need a step zero that limits amount of gold per account. But that would be hard to do.
     
  17. Nope gold wouldnt change. It halfed in the transfer to no matter where you go.

    Now taking 20 billion to XSHARD and arriving with 10 billion, might still give you lots of purchasing power but that is allowed.
     
  18. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    A change like that would be about as welcome as most consider AoS to have been. Done in stealth it would cause a firestorm backlash that would not bode well for UO's future.

    Those who have obscene amounts of gold consider that to be status... (Yes, playing Devil's advocate here)
     
  19. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    The best and easiest way for EA to do a gold sink [if they really wanted to] is to go to all the brokers [as they are the people sat on billions and billions of gold waiting to sell for $$$] and buy it all up then take them to court and sue them for the $$ back plus compensation.

    Simple

    But they will never do it as the brokers sell gold for $$ which keeps people playing the game as some have RL $$$ but not game time so they buy gold for there extra $$ to be able to have what they need. Apposed to people who can play all day and make the gold and not have to spend $$.

    Hence why they brought out that new enhancing tool, my suite cost me 250mill to make, some dont have the time to make that much gold as of work so now they can pay EA $10 and make it for 25mill.

    Thunderz
     
  20. Well fix is a debated word. What it does is help stabilize it. Those that have already have.

    The buying power is there. The gold sinks are more for the stupidly wealthy. The account bound items address that.

    The % flux for loot and NPC cost are the stabilizing piece for the economy. NOT THE BALANCING factor for those that have and dont have.

    Gold is lost in XSHARD. Gold is lost in account bound items. Gold is lost on the dontation wheels. Ya new guy cant spin the wheel but heck I couldnt buy armour when I first started.
     
  21. Thats a good out of game method. But mine is in game method.

    And I really thing EA should creat RL auctions the get a percentage off of. Now everyone can make a few extra bucks. But like you said this and that wont ever happen.
     

  22. Some do. So status is in the account bound jewel armoured black stallion of oblivian.

    Some don't but if status isnt their thing, buying stuff probably is. We need to create many things to spend gold on that reflect cost based on the amount of gold in the economy. It creates a stabilzing effect.


    Now this wont fix hacks and cheats. But they also cant be blocks to making changes.
     
  23. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    I am probably wrong on this... But, I think most people actually play the game to PLAY the game, not to worry about economic principles. Personally I could care less about the economy of pixels. Whadda ya say we worry about fixing the RL economy then after about 25 years we worry about virtual ones :)
     
  24. The SELLER gets more power
    Virtual gaming's elusive exchange rates - CNET News

    :next:
     
  25. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Hrm.

    The NPC purchase price variable % won't stabilize anything...unless everyone purchased from them. Even with the % loot gold, this will again only affect new players, essentially placing them at a disadvantage (even if it is only perceived).

    Balancing is what we need. The stupidly wealthy (I like this description :thumbsup:) won't really be affected. Unless they go flitting off to another shard with all their gold in tow the 50% transfer sink would be a rare occurrence, and easily avoidable by xfering with material goods instead of gold.

    While I agree we need more gold sinks (and am unwilling to call the new boat a gold sink due to the absurd price) they have to be things people actually want. Mythic seems none to clear on what its players really want...
     
  26. No one listens to me in real life.

    But my RL idea was to create a 4% loan for all current mortage holders 2 years ago. The government would back a 4% 40 year mortgage which would keep people in their houses and give those that were doing fine an option to lower monthly costs.

    The 4% is reflection of direct lending from the government to the people, like you and I. No middle bank to make % off it.

    Why should the government lend to the bank, the bank then lends to us and profits.

    Direct government mortgage to current home owners at a low rate. A lower monthly payment means less defaulting and more disposable income.

    Of course it means much more interest over 40 years but you don't have to take the loan.

    But Obama didnt want to consider it. CUT THE FAT BY CUTTING OUT THE MIDDLE MAN. Hell its the banks that F'd up anyway.
     

  27. True the NPC would need to sell stuff that we want. But consider runes. We use them. The go from what 5 gold to 125 gold. They are dropped all the time. Now maybe that seems high but it is reflection of in game gold.

    Prices of houses would go up. Prices of boats would go up. Prices of decorating tools, placement tools would go up.

    It would be painful but dont forget the gold goes up in monsters. The gold that exists already really gets absorb in gold sinks.

    So as that gold comes out... maybe xsharding or buying the BRIT SHIP. The rune price starts coming down.


    The % reflect the economy. Granted we all have great gold sink ideas. I wonder why the DEVS wont address it.

    HELL THE EVEN COULD HAVE: GOLD REDUCTION MONTH.
    -players can buy account time for gold
    -players can buy unique 1 time only items.
    -players could buy token for gold instead of cash.

    DAMN give us a 2nd house Token that is account bound. We buy the token for in game gold. SINK US BABY.
     
  28. Sunchicken

    Sunchicken Guest

    I wouldnt have a problem with this.
    I also think checks shouldnt be able to be locked down
     
  29. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Of course you wouldn't - you could make back your millions selling Bewkatoooooos!
     
  30. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    The super wealthy would just continue to convert their collective gold into items which some deem to be worth M000's. Sitting on billions in cash are the exception to the rule and a vast minority.

    Any person whom wanted to could raise a hundred mil in a month just farming once your char was semi-competent.

    The dynamics of this might have worked if it was day one but I bet the computing power required was not there, the forsight or an economist to place the plan. Either way inflation would have happened.
     
  31. Your right conversion would happen. But being a game sometimes those conversation don't pan out.

    Establishing something now is better late then never.

    This is just for fun anyway. I have a stupid amount of gold. I can tell you I ruined my game play by becoming a merchant.

    Rule #1 Pretend all that is new isnt something you want until 30 days after it is out. Its a fair price then. Everyone else spends hours getting it and you can just buy it for a reasonable price in 30-45 days.
     
  32. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Runes start at 15gp each ;) Most of those go to advertise shops. If the price went too high, eventually people wouldn't do that.

    House prices are pretty much one time purchases... House customization is the true gold sink there. Since deco/placement tools have unlimited uses, their purchase is a one time expense. Essentially, everything (with the exception of houses, gifts, rewards, ethys, and pure deco) would eventually have to wear out for them to have much of an economical effect. If things are simply priced high to start, again that may set the bar to high for a 'new player.'




    Gold going 'up' on monsters only opens the spigot wider, further offsetting what any sort of gold sinks might achieve.

    What if people don’t buy the gold sink items and just horde the gold, or use it in economically destabilizing ways?
     
  33. peeps not listening to you does not mean you had a good idea./

    thanks for clarifying your limited grasp of economics of scale.
    Specifically (as one thing) the concept of "collateral/ownership/possession"

    idea remains :thumbdown:
     

  34. Well the good point is gold goes up in the monsters pack and people might just hoard the gold.

    That is true. That is what is done now. The answer.... hmmm....

    Well there is of ways UO lets gold brokers hoard gold.
    1. Vendors to like 1 billion gold.
    2. Lock downs in house.
    3. Moving crate mayhaim.
    4. Bank boxes.

    Realistically, attacking the billion gold vendors is the way to go. It is a free place to store a bizzillion gold. It really is silly.

    My solution though unpopular would be to cap vendors at 500 million and nothing can be bought until that gold is moved.

    Once moved a % is taken when it goes into the bank box. Once spent a % is taken to break the check. It addresses the issue somewhat. It is really makes sense if you think about it as a game and the bank is managing all that gold.

    But the moans will come.

    Right now gold is held for free and tranfered to players for RL cash for free. Most players arent moving billions weekly. Those that say they do... I believe you... you just have to get used to changes.
     
  35. Thanks for clarifying you limited grasp of good ideas.:thumbdown:

    You got to get out of the books and the box. Expand your thinking. Its a good feeling.
     
  36. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    A desired gold sink is the best way to combat this on the wealthy end of the spectrum. The system would need to be made so that the wealthy somehow spend more willingly - spending in such a way as the gold goes POOF more often than not.

    The system would also need to be made so it doesn't punish the new players with bloated prices.

    Picus is right, the stupidly rich are the minority.

    Yes, people hate the maths! :p

    Plus where would you place the % at? 5%, 10%? Many people put their gold in check form since it takes 'physical' space in their banks. Player auctions also use checks, this would add a new layer of complexity to that.

    Perhaps if checks could exceed the current 1mil limits... *shrugs*
     
  37. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    I'm sorry you wasted your time typing that. :violin:
     
  38. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Too much effort for too little gain I think.
    It might balance out the economy, though I am not sure it is so necessary and would just be considered annoying for many people.
     
  39. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    Interesting idea

    But i can imagine a dragon gold loot on atlantic being 10x times compared to a dragon gold loot on ... oceania or.. lake austin. So even if u pay 50% fee when transfer gold to another shard, it will be always better to play on a crowded shard

    still a interesting idea :thumbup1:
     
  40. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, most of these ideas seem like they would just cause consternation and annoyance, and for no real reason.

    Gold sinks are fine, but fees etc are not a good idea since this is a fantasy rpg not an economic sim.
     
  41. I have an excellent grasp of good ideas, an aspect of which is not touching easily identified "bad" ones.
    I got that skill OUT of books. which I Then placed on the shelf for further reference.
    You need to show me how your idea, can fit into the box ... without Breaking the Box.

    I doubt that you will be able to do so BeCause:
    You are not allowing as how >the full nature< of your idea IS affected and effected BY RMT.

    RMT is not only legal ... IT >began< in UO ...
    Wired 11.01: The Unreal Estate Boom

    idea remains::thumbdown:
     
  42. Step 1, 3, and 4 ftw. That's a great idea. I think you're wonderful.

    The rest I see as a series of gold sinks. Sure, that's cool. Whatever. I can go with or without them, but 1, 3, and 4 are amazing.

    Why step 2? Who cares if people transfer around to other shards to buy cheap things or move somewhere to sell them?
     
  43. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    Just run with the old idea of having all NPCs stop accepting traditional gold coins. Now they accept gold crowns, or ducats, or doubloons, or whatever.

    Monsters now drop ducats instead of traditional coins. Placing or designing a house now takes ducats. Player vendors now function based entirely on ducats.

    An NPC moneychanger will turn your gold coins into ducats, but at a reduced rate. 1 million coins = 100k ducats.

    Blam, inflation slashed. Everyone is still as rich as they were before, relatively, but it's no longer impossible for a newer person to catch up. Now it's 100k ducats that cost a dollar instead of 1m gold. Now something that cost 20m gold costs 2m ducats. If they try to leave it on the vendor for 20m ducats nobody will buy it because that's like asking 200m gold.
     
  44. Thats the hard part, keeping new players up to speed.