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Worthless?

Discussion in 'FINAL FANTASY XI General Discussion' started by Ailden, Dec 6, 2008.

  1. Ailden

    Ailden Guest

    Puppetmasters appear to be worthless in parties. Are there any plans to improve? Stratics
    Matsui: We realize pet jobs need work. We are planning changes for the future.

    Really Stratics? Have you ever even partied with a PUP? From level 1-70 I didn't meet a single person who could outparse me and I never once solod. We already get a bad stigma and it doesn't help when we get unfair treatment from websites like this. I will thank you to hold your tongue in the future about things that you do not understand.
     
  2. tanls

    tanls Guest

    It's not like websites like these come up with these questions or opinions out of the air. Most of the questions and observations come from players. No one starts off with an opinion of a job when they first release it, the opinions occur as time goes on and players both bad and good try out the job. Over time, most jobs earn reputations. These reputations may or might not be deserved, but they all stem from observations of many players and the reputations come from ppl who have played the job. I remember when BLU first came out, the job has gotten a bad rap as far as partys are concerned, not because if the abilities or skill set or anything to DO with the job, but because ppl were using Exp Parties to spell hunt with. There were a couple BLUs on my server who set up Exp Parties and then only tried to fight the mobs they needed spells off of. That's great for the BLUs, but pissed off everyone else that was try to get some decent exp/hr.

    As far as PUP is concerned, I don't have a real opinion. I've played with some decent PUPs and I've played with some PUPs that were worthless. Just like all other jobs. The players make the job, and unfortunately, some players just give the job a bad reputation. They might not want to heal, even though PUP is the only other job with native cure V. They might not have a decent DD setup because they don't have all the attachments. Heck, they might be used to just soloing (which I think many do) and so don't either have the gear or inclination to have the gear to party most efficiently. Honestly, don't know or don't care. I'd rather play with ppl who know how to play as a team and not individually, regardless of the job. Which is why most of my partys now are LS partys. As far as giving PUP a decent shake, we don't have on in my end game LS right now, but we are encouraging ppl to level it, just so we can test it out in end game. There's plenty that are excited about the possibilities.

    Going back to your point though, the reputation that PUP has was created by ppl who play PUP, and I believe that questions posited like the ones from Stratics helps to improve the game, the job, and make more ppl more interested in playing that job. I know that there have been changes and updates to the job that now it's not an automatic lolPUP.
     
  3. Trish

    Trish Certifiable
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    The questions Banhammer asked were questions from the people who frequent this site. It wasn't specifically Stratics', or Banhammer's, question. And just a guess, since I don't ask questions about things like this if I don't understand them, but I'm willing to bet it was a lonely PUP not getting invites who asked it.

    I know a couple of those lonely PUPs, and I feel their pain as a wannabe SMN main (in reality I'm always a WHM). It's sad that everyone (especially these long time players) get stuck in their "only this job combo for this situation" ruts, but it's not easily changed.
     
  4. Ailden

    Ailden Guest

    I am not so mad at the question itself, I am mad at the way it was asked.

    A better and less offensive way might have been:

    Puppetmasters are often overlooked for parties, is SE planning any job adjustments that will give them more group utility?

    See, it can be done nicely without calling them worthless, I don't care if that is how the question was worded by a player, there is NO excuse not to reword it when you ask it during the interview. And no self-respecting PUP would call them self worthless.
     
  5. tanls

    tanls Guest

    Well, then, maybe you should volunteer to participate in these types of events or suggest questions and formats there of to Stratics personnel. If you don't like how someone is doing the job, don't just sit there and b*tch about, step up and take up any slack you think is there.

    I only responded to your post, because I found it offensive.

    That just rubbed me the wrong way and I think applies to you too.
     
  6. Ailden

    Ailden Guest

    Excuse me? I don't think I need to step up and tell people to not be rude, I had this notion that when were were children our parents taught us not to say mean and offensive things.

    Also, as far as posting questions, I do ask questions on the allakhazam forums and the ffxiclopedia forums. As a community the Puppetmasters decided on a list of questions to be asked then submitted them to both sites and they were asked at the site summit.

    BTW, I do understand my job, and I understand how to ask questions without being rude. :)
     
  7. Trish

    Trish Certifiable
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    Apparently, you did.

    I think you're just sensitive because you are a PUP. "appears worthless in a party" isn't calling someone worthless, it's expressing an opinion. I'm rather glad they didn't choose to edit our questions, too. When questions get edited, the reason for the question sometimes gets lost.

    Disclaimer: I'm a mod. I have nothing to do with the questions asked, or how they're worded. This is all my opinion and my opinion only.
     
  8. Ailden

    Ailden Guest

    Of course I am sensitive if someone asked "WHMs appear to be worthless in merit parties, is there anything you are going to do to fix it?" wouldn't you find that offensive? When other FFXI players see that question, most of them have not partied with a PUP in a long time or ever because the population is so low. And then they look at that and think, "hmm PUPs are worthless in parties, I better not invite them."
     
  9. Trish

    Trish Certifiable
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    I DO hear that, quite often. RDM is the preferred healer to most people. Heck forget WHM.. let's talk SMN! I LOVE that job. But do I ever get to whip it out for endgame stuff? Nope, because "there's something always better". Forget that I've sank merits into this, spent millions on the awesome gear, camped monsters that don't want to come out and play, and thank those worthless SMNS that simply follow the element of the day and make us look weak.

    You're not alone, dude, not even close. I DO feel your pain, and I've read worse things about my own jobs at events like this. But the reality is you're feeling it a little close to home (in my opinion, if that needs to be said). We all deal with this in one form or another. I keep thinking of a friend who pretty much got told by his endgame if he can't come /nin on his DRK to stop coming to sky. As the WHM who has to heal him often, I can tell you it didn't make any difference at all. He has tools to gain his own HP back, and used them well. All this did was make him weaker. But you can't fight stereotypes in this game.
     
  10. Banhammer

    Banhammer Guest

    Okay, let me clarify things, because as cool as the FFXIclopedia people were at the Fan Festival, that question got a bit misstated in their summary.

    What I said was that the class is often perceived as worthless in a party scenario, and asked if that was intended (i.e., if PUP was meant to function largely as a solo class similar to BST). I unlocked PUP about a month ago personally, and greatly enjoy the job, but suffice it to say that it's not exactly easy for me to get a group.

    I'll try and poke Ganiman and see if he can fix the interview writeup. As written currently it's a lot more inflammatory than I actually asked.
     
  11. Ailden

    Ailden Guest

    Thank you. I'm sorry that I flew off the handle if the question was misinterpreted by FFXIclopedia. I am not speaking as a single person, a lot of PUPs across servers/forums are heated up over that question.
     
  12. Banhammer

    Banhammer Guest

    I can't really blame them. My main job right now is RDM, and if someone from a premier site was quoted as calling RDM worthless...well, actually, I'd probably just laugh at them because it's RDM. Still, the sentiment remains.
     
  13. Onewing

    Onewing Guest

    Hi, Ailden, thank you for letting us know your (and other PUPs) opinion. We try hard to be as impartial and inquisitive as possible while avoiding any form of offense. Banhammer is very good at this and I respect his work (and back him fully). This is not to say that he is free from err (or any of my staff (myself included)). So, we are welcome to these comments and observations in hopes that we can correct any kind of mistakes.

    Hopefully, we can all be respectful to each other when these situations arise. Now, let's all hold hands and sing "kum bai ya."

    ...Maybe that's a stretch. :D
     
  14. Banhammer

    Banhammer Guest

    Just for the record, I was able to get Charitwo to edit the listed question on the FFXIclopedia forums to something closer to what was actually asked, so hopefully the anger and confusion can be kept to a minimum. (And hopefully I can get a party as PUP soon.)
     
  15. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    This is an older post, but my advice is this. There are so many resources on the internet than when I first started playing. If you play a less popular job...AND, you like to, then you need to take a look at that.

    What I mean by that is, you need to get familiar with the experience party areas (all of them) and with learning what works in different areas.

    If you aren't comfortable with that, then you need to look at duoing with a friend who has good leadership and party making abilities. You have the fun of partying with someone you know AND takes the heat off you for being responsible for the party makeup.