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You ain't nothing but a cheater....

Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by Giggles, Apr 15, 2015.

  1. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    Hello all,

    This will be my first ever semi rant on the forums, but its a topic that I feel should be discussed... Accusations of cheating, especially in pvp.

    Now let me start with saying this, I play the Enhanced Client 100% of the time unless I am stocking vendors. Everything I do is in the EC. Your standard "scripts" people speak of do not work with the Enhanced Client. the Enhance Client offers ways for you to modify your client, but that is legal! Now I will also say, I do not modify my client because.. well.. I'm just not that smart. lol. I have a basic twitch account with a you-tube account where I post some of my pvp and or pvm videos. For future reference (since my videos are part of my discussion), you can find my videos here.... https://www.youtube.com/user/Pebbles8382/videos

    Now what is the point of me saying all this? Well I am accused of cheating DAILY in pvp. Anytime I kill someone the cheat comments flood chat. "You ain't crap without your illegal programs!" "You ain't nothing but a pathetic cheater" "I know a cheater when I see one, and no one can play like you without cheats". Do these comments bother me? Not really. But it does make me think... wow what has our game come to? If anyone is decent, or even semi decent at anything they do they are automatically cheaters. Now let me give another example..

    Just yesterday I was pvping. I killed a few people and the cheat comments started rolling. So I say.. "I Play 100% legit in the enhanced client, please check out my you tube and twitch account for verification." So the person responds. "I already watched your videos, and your cure macro is like no one elses, and so and so told me that you can still cheat with the enhanced client" Uhmmmmm ok? So this is why I posted my youtube channel above, so maybe someone else can confirm that this is true? Let me dab on this a little.. My cure macro is a basic hotbar macro that chugs a cure when I hit 0. And as far as cheating in the enhanced client.. as previously stated, you can modify your client if you choose, but it is legal and the client is designed for that purpose. Regardless.. I still haven't done that. I only use a mod to allows me to run UOcartographer.

    So my purpose of all this.. Honestly what the heck is our community coming to? Why does it always go to the cheater accusations, even in the face of proof otherwise? Why can't someone just know how to play? So many times I hear that cheaters ruin the game.. honestly I'm beginning to think mass paranoia is ruining this game. I won't deny that there are real cheaters, but come on. I think its just going a little too far.

    So what can we do as a community to change this negativity? I'm interested in your thoughts. =)

    /endrant
     
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  2. Prime

    Prime Visitor

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    Being on top always gets hastled and blamed and called out because of Jealousy! ^^
     
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  3. Larisa

    Larisa Reporting Manager
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    Yeah they are just jelly cus they got beat down by a girl ;)

    It's the same in all games....my favorites are when I kill someone and they call ME a noob....and who's the one eating dirt at my feet?

    Some people can't stand it when their precious pixels take a dirt nap, and instead of trying to be better and maybe kill you next time, they resort to name calling/shaming/blaming..it's a way of pixel life.
     
  4. petemage

    petemage Seasoned Veteran

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    Take that as a compliment with the knowledge you're doing nothing wrong. Same people that are still suprised you can setup comsumables and stuff in the hotbars. You must be pretty good at it though :D
     
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  5. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    to be fair, EC is basically a cheat client. very automated and can auto-run around things that block in CC. so i would expect the comments. very similar to what people have known for years as 3rd party illegal CC programs. the disparity in the clients is a major reason i have no interest in pvp anymore and will probably be one of the factors when i eventually leave the game.
     
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  6. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    I miss pvping with you Giggles. Boys would get so mad when you killed them lol.
    I will be the first to say that I did use programs that enhanced gameplay. You didnt know. With enhanced client you really don't need to because of how fast you are. The rest is just muscle memory and knowing your template and combos. Pvpers are a high strung bunch and the majority of them just need something to fix their ego after its stepped on. Keep doing what you do. You do it better than any female and most male pvpers out there.

    Come play Albion Online nerd:)
     
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  7. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    Giggles - While you personally may not be cheating, there are accusations out there because many people are cheating and are infact flouting the rules through the use of third party programs (speeders and such). Some entire guilds are well known for the rules this way (cough*Hi5*cough). Let it go right over your shoulder!

    DERP!
     
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  8. MrMightySmith

    MrMightySmith Journeyman
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    Now the EC is basically a "cheat client"....... lol what a joke. I dont want to rant but all you CC whine when any threat or change is even attempted to be made to CC no Mythic knows not to touch it (so did every company that worked on this game for the last 17 years basically in fear of touching the CC). So alternatively, they created not only one new client but actually 2 new clients over the last 17 years of this game and what a shock, it is way better then the original CC(mainly in terms of interface and function). Now we have people on here that are calling it a cheat client which is just hilarious in and of itself. Face it, CC users there is absolutely no value to mythic to EVVVVVEERRRRRR MAKE ANY CHANGES to the CC at this point. They do not have the personnel to do it and there is 0 upside to changing a 17 year client without fear of retribution, which is why no one has ever touched in the last 17 years.
     
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  9. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    If I could auto bandie like I can with UOS***m in the EC it would be AMAZING! Also they ability to turn my field spells into squares would be nice. Also that script where it would also auto chug a refresh when getting hit and stamina drops is that something @Pinco could build into his client I wonder?
     
  10. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    I'm surprised that you're surprised. This is UO.

    We cant change it because a large part of this 'community' is a cesspit. Its the nature of the beast that is modern day UO.
     
  11. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    I can accept the fact that some people feel as if the EC is a cheat client. But honestly.. is it? A cheat in any game is usually defined as something illegal that people exploit to get the advantage. The Enhanced Client is not illegal. It is called "enhanced" for a reason.

    Here are the advantages the EC gives me over CC pvpers...
    1. Speed.
    2. Pathfinding and the ability to run over tombstones.
    3. The ability to re-equip my entire suit after a res with one button.
    4. The ability to have several weapon and suit macros to swap between mid fight with one button.

    In the realm of PVP, those are the main advantages I get. Am I or other EC users cheating? no.

    Here are the disadvantages to using the EC over the CC in pvp.
    1. The EC client is prone to completely closing. It happens randomly with out warning. Your entire game disappears off your programs running.
    2. Fields... So many issues with fields... One main one.... Despise east bridge you cannot cast fields on it at all unless you target yourself.
    3. Healthbars.. They don't always update. It happens pretty frequently.
    4. Mobile bars window does not update correctly, and you are prone to crashing if you try to grab a persons bar from it. CTRL Shifting peoples bars is also a nightmare of lag and difficulty.

    So both have their advantages and disadvantages. I really hope the entire topic doesn't degenerate into a client war. Both clients are legal and supported.

    Oh and about the Pinco's UI... I tried it for the first time this morning and died to stupid stuff because the mod is fairly buggy and inoperable. Its very bulky with a lot of unnecessary fluff in the use of PVP. I think Pinco's UI caters more to crafters and PVMers.

    I am just saddened to see it always amount to accusations of cheating. I really wish that mindset wasn't so overabundant. It isn't always the case.
     
  12. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    it's not a client and it's not possible :p
     
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  13. Lord Taliesin

    Lord Taliesin Seasoned Veteran

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    If you want to avoid accusations of cheating just do what I do; suck at pvp and die alot! Never once has anyone called me a cheater! :p
     
  14. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I feel you... I've been accused of cheating... running speeders... But no I tell them it's the EC. Runs WAY faster on my more modern computer than the CC EVER did.

    Face it the EC is better. Even with Pinco's... Lots of us get accused of cheating.

    It's just better. Not to mention in party I can see where all my friends are. This without running any outside programs.

    And yes swapping out whole pieces of suit and weapon with the click of a button in the blink of an eye. Can't be beat. I often in PvM swap my talisman, quiver and weapon all at once.
     
  15. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    Yup. I killed a guy the other night in Despise, he said it was the spawn both times (in his defense, it was spawn the first time. they dropped him when he was redlined), so I posted a screenshot of him dying to me the second time & getting his insurance gold. His mouth was still going, so I told him to stop talking since he died to me 2v1. Another guildmate of his is just as bad. I've killed him multiple times 1v1 (when I get him to drop, anyway. He runs NON-STOP unless others are around) and he still insists on running his mouth.

    For me, the saddest part of all this is that they've been pvp'ing for months, if not years, and haven't improved at all. Instead of improving their muscle memory, learning when to heal/run/etc, spell combos/spell play in general (if/when they're on mages), they just rely on numbers. I've even offered to fight them 1v1 after Stoning Parry off, knowing it wouldn't make a difference.

    When I die 1v1, I take note of why it happened. If it's something I can control (that doesn't involve carrying consumables), I make sure not to repeat that mistake in the future. If it's because of the RNG (with the # of Dexers I have to fight, it usually is), I simply congratulate them (sarcastically) and say it won't happen again. Since I play a Parry Scribe, it (usually) doesn't.

    I absolutely LOVE the auto-bandies. And also chugging, appling, heal stone/spell trigger (if I'm on a mystic), dismount/remount, dress macro (although it could be faster. It does one piece at a time), etc.

    It also has its problems though. My client will just stop working/I'll crash in the middle of a fight, and health bars won't always update. It's annoying if you think they're @ full health for the entire fight (you can drag their bar to refresh, but that's usually not an option when you're pvp'ing) - when I know they're going to heal, I'll poison them to delay their bandies & stop them from chugging a heal pot. It's easy to fix - just close the client, re-open it, and bars will update as normal.

    I've had guys accuse me of using a speeder multiple times. I do one of two things: 1) Tell them my ping is in the 32-35 range. 2) "Yeah, the iTunes & Firefox I have running really help me pvp."
     
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  16. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Yep that iTunes! It's a cheat for sure! Depending on what tunes your listening to! Personally I prefer Disturbed... Makes the fighting way better.
     
  17. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    Actually, I think it DOES help...but that's probably all in my head. I've pvp'd a bit while listening to music & thought I did better with it going. For me, it's Foreigner, Iron Maiden, Journey, or other old rock groups.
     
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  18. Zuckuss

    Zuckuss Order | Chaos
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    I can only do music if I am running around solo, otherwise it filters out your teammates when you are in vent.

    The moment that this becomes a EC vs. CC thread (if it is not yet already one), this thread will be closed.
     
  19. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    I had two sets of headphones when I did that, which was, admittedly, rare - for certain songs in my library, you had to have both ears in or you wouldn't hear certain parts of some songs. Now I'm running around solo on LS, so I can listen to music more often.
     
  20. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    Thanks for the thread move @Kirthag . My early morning ponderings don't always end up in the appropriate forums. *giggles*
     
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  21. Zuckuss

    Zuckuss Order | Chaos
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    Here's one for you guys.

    My opinion: The authenticity of the 1v1 duel has been put into question since the release of the EC.

    If one has features that the other doesn't, like speed etc, how can we compare pvp skill when the players are using different clients? I fully understand that 3rd party programs tainted duels long before the EC, but now, two players can be dueling "legit" in the eyes of UO and yet be on different playing fields.

    The purity of GM armor (or naked) mage duels is something that I miss from back in the day.
     
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  22. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    What truly ruined mage duels was the implementation of Casting Focus, 40 sdi, and Poison Immunity (poisoning skill)... It's a real shame they added in the Arena so late when no one cares about dueling anymore. back in the day, the only RNG was the chance you resisted poison. now you have to interrupt and sometimes try to interrupt the same spell twice, and hope your poisons don't get auto-cured every tick, it's just stupid.
     
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  23. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Slightly Crazed

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    Dude, everything that you have to say is negative. Please for the love of god just quit and leave the game to the rest of the people who are actually enjoying it. I'm so sick of listening to your rants that hold no merit because you do nothing but complain because the game isn't working in your favor.

    Do you Giggles, I'll be on this week to pvp with ya.
     
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  24. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    not negative enough to get banned from stratics Aiden ;) i must say tho, its an honor that someone is actually so obsessed with my tongue in cheek ramblings. if your "sick of listening to rants" maybe dont read / post in the spiels and rants section!
     
    #24 Smoot, Apr 15, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2015
  25. a slave girl

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    "Your standard "scripts" people speak of do not work with the Enhanced Client."

    Doesn't this mean that you have somehow acquired some personal knowledge of how standard scripts DO work?

    :)

    This statement also leaves me wondering about your use of non-standard scripts...


    Of course, if you are a girl kicking booty in pvp using the EC without scripts, then you go girl!

    :)
     
  26. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    I don't use scripts and never have, doesn't mean I don't know how they work. After the 500th time you see someone use them it becomes pretty clear. Plus people talk, its not like everyone hides their secret stuff, the first thing they do is go brag to someone about how they did it to look cool lol.
     
  27. Acid Rain

    Acid Rain Lore Keeper
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    Did you ever remove the auto-toggle out of war mode when blood oath is cast Pinco?:confused2:
    That was one script you put in your program that nerfed my necro mage.

    It used to be pretty damn funny when someone killed themself cause they were
    to stupid to realize they were blood oathed:D.

    @Giggles how does the EC let you run over tombstones like you said? There is no legal way to run over them all.
    I can run over 2 of the 3 tombstones in the CC b/c I turned off desolation (100% legal option Devs added circa 2001-2). It was my understanding this was not an option in the EC, but maybe I'm wrong? It happens sometimes.:dunce:

    The reason you hear so many folks call you a cheater is because so many folks do indeed use cheats. Inexperienced players often can not discern the difference. If your indeed such a huge PvP fan, I'm sure you have experienced guildmates in Vent/Teamspeak talking about and sharing illegal programs. I have been in a few 100% PvP guilds & can honestly say it happens far more often than I'm comfortable with. It has been the reason I've quit guilds (and also the reason some GMs of current guilds *cough* *Hi5* *cough* were booted from the guild I was in).

    If your 100% legit and good at your gaming, who cares what others say? I've been called a cheater before because I understood game mechanics better then my opponent and used them in my favor(ex. - turning desolation off). I will never be called a cheater due to my speed :lol:.

    In short, the reason your being accused is because so many other players taint the battlefield with illegal activity that your being lumped in with them. That will happen when little action is taken against those that do actively cheat.
     
    #27 Acid Rain, Apr 16, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015
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  28. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Never let it get to you Giggles!

    It's just an easy excuse to blame cheats/client instead of players actually admitting they lost. Something UO players ( Not all players but some) has always had issues with.

    Point fingers to accuse attitudes instead of pointing to ones self and admit I suck attitudes.

    I cant compete so I will accuse a cheat attitudes.


    Just play and have fun. Roll over them and let them cry. They will still accuse even when you lose internet connection and die to them :) Ya just cant win even though they lose!
     
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  29. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    Yup. And when you say it, they'll ALWAYS say "what cheats? Name them." Like, really? I have access to your desktop and can do that. Puh-lease.
     
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  30. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    Seriously doesn't matter what others think only what matters is you know you don't cheat. When someone accuses you of cheating stop defending yourself instead say to them it's not your fault they can't keep themselves healed to stay alive.
     
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  31. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    I know it doesn't matter. And as I said before it really doesn't bother me. I just got to thinking how silly it was that it seems to be peoples only assumption when you kill them.

    See when I die to someone, instead of immediately thinking "OH GOD THEY HAVE DA L33T HAXXORS AND THAT'S WHY THEY WON"... I instead think "what did I do wrong?" To me it doesn't matter of someone is cheating or not, I can find a way to counter it. So when I die I blame my own stupidity.

    @Acid Rain In the Enhanced client tombstones appear to be small trees that you can walk over. Its build into the client itself.
     
  32. Acid Rain

    Acid Rain Lore Keeper
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    Ahh, so in Fel the EC uses the same graphics as Tram for trees then. I only ever use the EC for farming mats in dungeons. The looting agent in Pinco's makes farming mats amazingly simple. I've never been to Fel in the EC.

    I tested this years ago: The game has 3 graphics for tombstones. Two of them are passable, one is not. By turning off desolation in UOCFG (CC only) this makes 2 of the 3 tombstone graphics appear as small trees you can walk over. The 3rd graphic appears as a small tree that is not passable.

    Just trying to clarify :)
    TY.
     
  33. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    1st question....... Are you Naughty on Sonoma?
     
  34. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    Yes.
     
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  35. Vexxed

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    Ah.. Well a few simple thoughts...

    1) You wouldn't be using the EC if it wasn't an advantage..
    2) It's straight up FASTER than the CC by large margin & even than those using Proxies & "Other stuff to make you faster".... SPEED is king in PvP... NOTHING else is more important.
    3) If people were using 3rd party programs to Achieve the same results in the CC (Aka.. increased Speed / instant Dress Macros) They would be considered straight up hacking.. yet with the EC it's not?
    Sure... your correct... TECHNICALLY your not cheating, but effectively .... your apparently willing to put up with the HORRIBLE graphics of the EC for the PvP ADVANTAGES it gives you. Personally after 17 years of the CC I have NO interest in the EC.. even if it's BETTER for PvP. I'll deal with that choice but you have to admit it's quite silly that being WTF FASTER & also ble to do things that are IMPOSSIBLE in the CC is apparently part of PvP these days. I really don't see it ANY differently than those will to use speeders or tiled fields or other stuff that's against the ToS... All that stuff is NOT legal and you pay the price etc etc etc and the downside for the EC i you simply have to sacrifice the CC graphics and be willing to put up with how bad it appears for the ADVANTAGE it gives you.. lol I can't stomach it though. Imagine say if BF4 .... You turn the graphics all the way down to FUBAR ugly.. but now you move 15% FASTER lol.

    4) You kinda CRUTCH exceptionally hard on your speed.. especially on Naughty.. and if I'm not mistaken your also NICE and do it on him as well. If you displayed some sort of skill beyond that I'd give you some slack but hey... Respect is earned isn't it?

    Lastly.. I'm PEON if your wondering.

    Anyway... Sure your not Technically cheating... but effectively your willing to do things that most others just won't simply for an Advantage in PvP.... I wouldn't personally call you a cheater.. I'd just say your lame. RANT on!
     
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  36. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    See, the thing is, just because you're able to instantly dress in the EC (which, btw, I believe can be done with UOA, but it doesn't swap pieces out like the EC does), run faster, and do other things that the CC can't, doesn't mean it'll make you a better pvp'er. You still need to know your macros, when to hit them, etc.

    In other threads, I've stated that I can survive/escape from 3v1 dismount ganks on a regular basis. While it helps that I'm a Parry Mage against multiple dexers (when it does happen), if I didn't know my macros for apples (if mortal'd), heal pots, remounting, and curing my pet (people do poison it, but I trained its Resist Spells, so it has a better chance to fail now), I wouldn't be able to do it at all...and for a while, I couldn't.
     
  37. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    Ahhh, another happy customer =) Glad to be of service. I hope you feel better now that you got all of that out of your system.

    EC is available to anyone, anytime legally. Some people are not faster on the EC just because their computer/internet speed doesn't allow them to be. Some people are just unwilling to learn new things and adapt. I would prefer to learn new things over using the real crutches that are illegal, that also pretty much operate your character in so many ways during pvp. Real crutch players are not going to be decent even with the speed. They will forget to heal or whatever else they use the illegal programs for. I don't find the EC to be horrible to look at. If you want to be honest anything in UO is horrible to look at after playing any modern game.

    You are right, respect is earned. Keep working at it =) I don't require it, and never have. I just play the game and have fun. If people think I am good, cool. If they think I'm bad, cool. Whether or not I am having fun is the only thing I concern myself with.
     
    #37 Giggles, Apr 17, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  38. Vexxed

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    @drcossak. Its assumed that if your PvPing you know your macros.... My point was simply that Giggles is lamesuace lol. Shes willing to put up with crap EC graphics because she pretty much needs that insane speed to have a chance. Its fine ..but she asked why people give her crap and thats the reason. The more interesting question is why they would give the EC its own built in hacks lol. Giggles .... the sad part is that you seem to not get it. Simply admit that the EC is Super quick and effectively a phatty advantage in PvP and that It SHOULDNT be.....Its fine if its different and has its own appeal but come on.. the speed of it is silly and REQUIRING the EC to have that speed...bleh. Lol Say hi next time before you smokebomb.
     
  39. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    Silly Peon,

    I guess I forgot to say hi the night I killed you 3+ times in yew, or when I killed you and Vhinn 2v1. Oh wait... Vhinn ran so I didn't really kill him but... *shrug* close enough.
    Good times :lick:. I save my smoke bombs for ganks and Fanta because that dude scares me irl.
     
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  40. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    I've tried the EC. I haven't noticed a difference in my speed...actually, to be more correct, I thought the CC was faster, although I admit I don't know my way around the EC & don't know how to turn "always run" on. That's on my end, at least.

    Even though I fight guys in the EC regularly, the speed isn't that much of an advantage. If they can't hit you or are close to dying, moving faster is only going to help them run away. If I can't keep up with them to kill them, I'll just finish the job with a delayed spell, try to outplay them with fields, or try other things.
     
  41. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    Like I said up there a little ways. the EC by itself won't always make people faster. Internet speed and your computer also have a lot to do with it. People complained about my speed before I used the EC. I'm just lucky to have a fast computer and killer internet connection. The EC is only the cherry on the top in that regard. the path finding in spawns and woods is really where its all at.
    "always run" has nothing to do with it. I don't check that on any of my toons.
     
  42. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    Yeah, I just brought that up because I don't want to keep my cursor a certain distance away just to run. :p

    My computer does what I need it to, which is play UO with a decent amount of speed. I've seen guys that I know are in the CC move ridiculously fast too, and I've had guys say the same about me. Not getting stuck on objects or in spawn sounds nice though
     
  43. Vexxed

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    Well ill have to test to quantify the speed difference some time but its significant in the EC. Personally i KEY off the sound of my Mounts footsteps. That constant galloping noise when your moving with zero lag. On the EC you ALWAYS feel like your moving at the max speed and you dont get hiccups or random slow downs. When your that quick you can basically make up 4-8 tiles of movement in 1 screen..... For mages that directly equates to additional spells that your slower opponent doesnt get.... or for dexxers your regularly fast enough to not just catch up BESIDE a target and get off a swing if they hang up on something... you are fast enough to chase down a fleeing target and get in front of them forcing the pause required to swing.... Anyway.... why would you be afraid of fanta lol.... didnt you guys ally up cartel?
     
  44. Giggles

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    Ally? I have been Cartel. Just run under different tags sometimes =)
    Fanta is a very good mage, one of the few who gives me a run for my money. He has my respect and my smoke bombs!
     
  45. Great DC

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  46. Peekay

    Peekay Slightly Crazed

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    YOU AIN'T NOTHING BUT A SMOKE BOMBA~~~~
    #1 STUNNA
    DANK FRAGGA
    MOUNTAIN DEW AND DORITO KILLA.
    SWIGGITY SWOOTY, WATCH OUT BCOZ SHE COMMIN FOR DAT BOOTY.

    question, what would you rather read? "OMG UR A CHEATER" or "Kal Xen Bal Beh".
     
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  47. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    You made this entire post as a reason to say "SWIGGITY SWOOTY." didn't you?

    lol
     
  48. Peekay

    Peekay Slightly Crazed

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    yeah, pretty much.
     
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  49. Zuckuss

    Zuckuss Order | Chaos
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  50. Seelendolch

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    If people arent hurling abuse/calling "cheats" or "hacks" at you, then you are doing it wrong :p as soon as anyone gets half decent at anything, they get accused lol
     
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