1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

You Have it EASY! Back In My Day...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Tangled Metal, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. Tangled Metal

    Tangled Metal Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    144
    With the Mythic token and some gold you can easily be 6X Legendary in a matter of minutes. It is kind of sad to me really. Back in my day, just making it to GM was a real accomplishment. There were no White, Pink or Blue scrolls back then. Just hard work.

    If you wanted to be a tailor you first learned to find cotton. You could not afford cloth on the NPC vendors for training. After you made it past cloth, you had to use your warrior to farm leather. Same thing with a smith. You didn't buy ingots and grind out a GM Smith in 8 hours. You mined, you smelted, you made lots of armor.

    I think the term Skills is a misnomer. You don't have skills any more because a skill is something you earn over time learning how to do something. When you buy your skill it should be called something else because you didn't earn it.

    When I started playing, there was no safe spot in the game. PKs could be lurking anywhere. PVP was a different animal back when everyone was on either a 14.4, 28.8 or 36.6 modem. Most of the PVPers today probably don't even have a clue what I am talking about.

    Do I long for the olden times? Hell no, it was hard back then. And the servers were total crap. The servers crashed not just on a daily basis but several times a day. You'd spend hours working a skill just to wake up the next morning to find a 12 hour revert. I like it just fine today.

    My gripe is when someone says something is too hard, or the drop rate is too sparse, or that their connection is too slow. This game is a million times easier now than it was back in the 90's. The only thing I really miss is not being able to log into my home shard because there were too many people playing. Bet you new players didn't know that back then there was a cap on how many players could be on a shard. That is the reason you had characters on other shards, it wasn't for transferring stuff from shard to shard, it was because you wanted to play and it didn't matter what shard you were on!

    Alright, that was my little rant. What do you remember and/or miss/not miss from the humble beginnings of UO?
     
  2. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    Am I behind the times? I still do this today.
     
    Rhiannon likes this.
  3. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    575
    Some things were hard back then and some were extremely easier than today's methods.

    For instance, the day i started playing i met a fellow noob, whom also started the exact same time i did, and we shared ideas and slowly learned mechanics. Enticing nobles out of guard zone would quickly earn you a million gold and the spawn rate was instant. Beating on fishermen and healing them would give you a solid 4x gm warrior in a matter of hours, but if you killed one, you got a murder count. Now it takes 2-3 solid days to 120 a warrior. How rude!!

    How about killing the rangers in Skara for the immense amount of arrows they produced? Good times there!

    My first smith took me months to gm. Mining was boring so i threw on some melee skills along with mining and smith to kill mobs to loot their finest metal weps and armor for a smelt later in the day. Do you remember the time before salvage bags? I do.

    Primitave times indeed! Today, there's still that slight grind feel of the game but it's much easier to get to actually reaping the rewards.
     
  4. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,322
    Likes Received:
    164
    "You're not allowed to complain about bad things because those things used to be even more bad" is not an argument. It's like the door-in-the-face technique twisted in reverse.
     
  5. Ender76

    Ender76 Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    176
    Likes Received:
    37
    Power hour!
     
    Lord Frodo and CovenantX like this.
  6. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    8x8 on a boat.
     
    Lady Bleez likes this.
  7. Lady Bleez

    Lady Bleez Journeyman

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    42
    Ahh those server lines... memories
     
  8. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Premium Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,469
    Likes Received:
    361
    Being Telestormed because the server was overloaded
     
    Blaeke likes this.
  9. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    Lag and client crashes while trying to bank at WBB.
     
    Storm and syndael like this.
  10. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,957
    Likes Received:
    5,441
    I remember being ever so thankful that my main was an archer... Since half the time I'd lag out and have to log back in due to the numberous times my internet disconnected. And I'd log back in and find a pile of dead earth elementals at my feet...

    I remember I had a system of logging in.... first this char.... then that one..... then the next.... so as to take FULL advantage of Power Hour..... and no one could distract me till I got my gains in for the day. Back when I only had 5 characters.
     
  11. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2003
    Messages:
    956
    Likes Received:
    134
    taming 10 white wyrms and selling them at the bank, training my bards at the hedge maze farmhouse
     
  12. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    620
    being stupid enough to log out at WBB and trying to log back in at prime time...
     
    #12 Winker, Nov 19, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
    Storm and Hunters' Moon like this.
  13. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    620
    Taking all 10 white wyrms hunting at the same time
     
  14. Magdalene

    Magdalene Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 1, 2000
    Messages:
    7,501
    Likes Received:
    164
    Having ingame friends and waiting for the moment when I'd come home, start up the PC and the modem, hear "Stones" and play...
     
    Gidge likes this.
  15. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    620
    My Fav memory is, out running the guards at WWB after you just stole some guys goodies he just pulled out of the bank. There was a short peroid you could out run the guards if you were fast enough.
     
  16. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,762
    Likes Received:
    1,522
    Taking 10 minutes to get from bank window to road due to non stop stam block..I don't miss that lol
     
  17. T-Hunt

    T-Hunt Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Messages:
    640
    Likes Received:
    35
    Having random town invasions from some mobs.
    Standing inline waiting to get armor repaired by a smith you knew .
    Mage camp spawns and blood tiles. if lucky.
    Wall to wall players in shame.
    T-maps that actualy gave you treasure to keep..
    Colored armor from npc smiths you could buy..
    pvp were players cared more about the fight then trash talking you to death all day..
     
    Anvira likes this.
  18. Mazulat

    Mazulat Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 26, 2004
    Messages:
    266
    Likes Received:
    6
    I miss mining on my mace/mule, looking all squishy for the pk lurking around the mountains, then busting off his shield/armor when he pounced. No stamina and busted armor didn't prevent them from killing me, but it did make it a lot more satisfying when I ran off to find a rez. A little while later I'd see them at the forge with the iron the looted off my body, offering to pay me and tip to replace/repair the armor I busted up. Wash, rinse, repeat. :thumbsup:
    Light/heavy archers suit for the win... for those that remember those sort of things. Smiths were regarded with a kind of status that few other things ever rivaled. It was a VERY slow skill to train up and it was incredibly important to have a smith available that you trusted. Handing over pieces for repair to just anyone was a sure way to end up naked. I can't count how many times someone would be searching for the 'smith' that took off with their armor.

    I also miss something else even more, though not quite as 'old-days' as some of the other examples. Haven... real Haven. The small little town where I trained and equipped new players until some %$#&% decided to blow it up to make the new player experience more automated and remove the necessities of teamwork and community. Renn and LBR were some of the best times Uo ever saw and haven was the beginning point for almost everyone that experienced it.
     
    Andrasta likes this.
  19. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    489
    I remember the subtly coloured metal armour that NPC smiths sold. There were some very nice colours you could get.

    Mostly I miss how weapon attributes were expressed with a descriptive word rather than numbers. Surpassingly accurate, fortification, force, etc. It was far more immersive. I always thought even after AoS came around, you should have required Item ID or an ID wand (which could be made craftable) to view the raw numbers.

    BTW certain skills were easy to work up even ages ago when I joined (with Third Dawn). I remember training many of my melee skills on rotting corpses in Ilshenar. Just wait for a friendly bard to provoke two of them near humility and then start hitting them. They were practically invincible at the time and there would be four or five of us just chatting while we training on these super zombies.
     
  20. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    A wave of nostalgia hits every time I hear that song.

    Remember when...
    *Lost key...lost house.
    *You could actually die to a headless.
    *Getting necro regs as loot was something new.

    I still have the disc that allowed us to play around a little with house customization. Anyone else?
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  21. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Benefactor 4H

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    7,839
    Likes Received:
    2,394
    the bone knight wall in Deceit!
    don't let the wall fall people, cross heal!!!

    then the pucker factor as you saw red names running up from the hallway to the west and you knew you had about 3 seconds to decide if you wanted to get sandwiched between the reds and the skel knights or if you had enough stamina to push through the mobs and try your luck at running and hiding in the lower levels!

    what i miss most of all from what i use to do.... i miss the wild orcs that spawned.
    they would spawn with 4 orcs, a orc lord and a mage.
    with them would be a chest some trash and a cauldron.
    BUT, heres the trick, back in the days the chest trash and cauldron would not vanish over time, they would stay, so they would pile up creating a maze that you had to try to get through.
    many times i can remember being pinned in a dead end path in the trash with orcs blocking my way out and a orc mage bombing me to death with spells, hahahaha!
     
  22. Tangled Metal

    Tangled Metal Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    144
    For training fighting skills I have two words for you: Bone Wall
     
  23. T-Hunt

    T-Hunt Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Messages:
    640
    Likes Received:
    35
    I still have my rune for the bone wall.
    COD was a fun place also, so many new players there , was great training.
    I still remember orc invasion there one day..
     
  24. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    582
    Stuffing sheep into my old two story and farming the wool.
    Carrying 4 Katana's cause you never knew when your poison charge would wear out during PvP.
    Killing people with a newbie weapon and a kilt.
    Heater shield FTW.
    Soloing a Drake, forget a dragon and a small guild for a ancient wyrm.
     
  25. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    I remember when it was actually awesome to reach skill lvl, feeling a sense of achievement with each new skill title like expert and adept. Was really awesome when I finally hit "master" archer for the first time. Gaining skills actually took time and you felt a real sense of achievement when you finally Grandmastered a skill, not to mention making a 7xgm.
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  26. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend BoE

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    173
    Sharing an account because we could not afford 69.99 to both have an account. I placed my first house and never could find my way back to it. Sparring in the farms fields in west brit fel. Our goal? Get everyone to gm. Counting your steps for stealthing.. no auto check! 50 would get you 5, 100 got you 10 steps! Then doubled at some point? Healing hill in east brit. bag in a key locked chest to keep thieves from stealing from you. Red grizzly bears. Having the server go down giving my husband and I time to run to bk and eat knowing we would be back before the server came back up! Looting every single items because if you couldn't use it surely the provisioner would buy it so you could afford more armor because you had NO CLUE WHEN IT WOULD BREAK! games almost babified. *pats the young ones on their heads* Would I go back? yup. yup I would.
     
    Andrasta likes this.
  27. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    166
    No limit on how many animals you could tame and bring to the bank to sell, like a dozen horses.

    Getting together with other tamers and taming a great number and variety of creatures for vocal parts in an orchestra that would take place in the Swamp just below the Papua Bank. It lagged everyone at the bank but the GMs would come to help stop players from murdering us, allowing the animal vocals to produce Christmas songs for about an hour. We had everything from the baratoned walrus to the screaching owls, giant toads, dragons, wolves, mongbats, parrots, horses, forest ostards .. can't remember all the sounds we used now. I think the bard drums helped.
     
    #27 Jade of Sonoma, Nov 19, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  28. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,809
    Likes Received:
    2,325
    I had to walk from my house north of Brit, thru the mountain pass, to the mage shop every day to get regs. Uphill, both ways... :p
     
  29. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    760
    Likes Received:
    265
    Back in the good ole' days you had to run from Trinny to Brit 1/2, from being attacked by a harpy life because you screwed up and started a character in the wrong town.

    The 409 guild would recall into the bone wall while wearing orc masks and slauter everone there, then they would go to the poison pits and slauter everyone there.

    You would use the old "drag, walk 2 spaces, drag and hold if someone walks by" to move ore from where you were mining to a forge.

    You would not walk from town to town on the road because of PK's, but you would get lost when you try to cut thru the forest.
     
    Leodegan, Lord Frodo and Uriah Heep like this.
  30. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    Shrug. GM hasn't meant anything for like 10 years now. Legendary doesn't even mean much. And It's not like buying skills is new. When were advanced character tokens introduced? 7 years ago? More? I don't remember, but they have been around for forever now.

    95% of the game is designed for not only completed, but also well equipped players, can't really make it take years to GM something anymore.

    I'm fine with it honestly. I played back then, and yes, it was awesome to get to 100 taming or 100 smithing, and feel like I really DID something, but such an absurd power gap between new and old players just isn't good for the game.
     
  31. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Benefactor 4H

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    7,839
    Likes Received:
    2,394
    OMG stealthing... counting steps i had totally forgotten about that!

    and drag and dropping stuff to move it.... WAIT SOMEONE COMES!
    HOLD IT IN THE AIR TILL THEY PASS!!!!

    hahahahaha

    i know a thief who made a mill (back in the days when a mill was worth like $20-$30) just from taking gold that people where hiding behind the walls in dungeons (circle of transparency for the wi..... hey who took my damn gold!)
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  32. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    Heh I remember hiding gold in the static chests in dungeons in case I got pked. Usually worked heh.
     
  33. kulder

    kulder Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2001
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    17
    i always liked the moonstones be anywhere and plant it and switch facets, and running around naked with a silver vang fighting Lichs when resist meant something
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  34. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    471
    When you had to sit at a moongate and watch the scenery change via text. It was important to know what your destination looked like if you wanted to get there and back.
     
  35. RueTor

    RueTor Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    219
    Trapping

    Stealthing (you had to walk and count your steps) around and trapping chests. This was back in the bounty and stat loss days. Fun times just waiting for someone to spring a trap, then to escape with GM armor as loot.

     
  36. Good Grief

    Good Grief Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    60
    Sorry, can't see your point there considering 90% of this game now is waiting for the RNG to do you a favor and give you that latest, must have item.

    Exactly what drops were you waiting for back in the "golden days" that took months, if not years to get?
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  37. swroberts

    swroberts Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    134
    -No lock on the skills so you had 20pts in everything, and never knew what was going to go down. Accidently wrestling some rabbit and your GM Tailor skill goes down .3 points. :mad:
    -When seeing a GM mage was awe inspiring
    -Running up the the bank saying bank, then hiding from the theives
    -Wearing Crafted By...had status
    -Living off a boat in Delucia
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  38. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,012
    Likes Received:
    63
    Having someone run up to you and start a camp fire...Doh there goes my archery skill..."Get away from me Noob!"

    -Lorax
     
    Jade of Sonoma and swroberts like this.
  39. Olahorand

    Olahorand Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    1,336
    Likes Received:
    243
    Getting killed and dry looted (especially my nice sorted bag, since all items were clutter after double clicking the corpse, no autoequip) by an NPC Brigand on the bridge south of Trinsic, and then an NPC crying for guards killing the looter, so my items immediately vanished.
     
    Hunters' Moon likes this.
  40. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    7
    I got stuck at 99.8 magery on my first real guy. Back then it took a couple of chars to make enough money to buy regs for us to even try to get one. I cast many many thousands of summons at my house. I finally paged a GM. One showed up and said "You know you might never get those last .2 we've never seen a GM mage." When it finally came you'd get mobbed at the bank any time you showed up.

    Its hard for me to play now honestly. Its fun to just play of course. It always was, but the sense of accomplishment is gone.
     
  41. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    760
    Likes Received:
    265
    You had to go to the Moonglow mage shop with 8 pack horses to buy your regs, but because there were so many players you had to take refresh pots so you could just get into the shop.
     
    swroberts likes this.
  42. swroberts

    swroberts Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    134
    Had to be quick on that mouse and not too greedy, or by the time you and the amount selected and pressed buy....the mage was empty...
     
  43. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    393
    My characters had to walk from Britain to Despise...uphill...both ways.
     
  44. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2003
    Messages:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    875
    That's not far!
     
  45. Tangled Metal

    Tangled Metal Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    144
    Yeah, but it was probably a blizzard too!
     
    Rhiannon likes this.
  46. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    RowanElizabeth sugar I know exactly what you mean. Some of our dear friends here never had to endure the early days of UO. Where you would have worked hard for 4 to 6 hours on skills then have hte shard go down for a fix and have some if not all your hard work go bye bye..... People ask me how come I have homes all over more then a dozzen shards.... Each shard would be havign a different problem an go down to a Dev fix, you had to ether find another shard or stop playing and your home shard might be off for a day or two. (Napa went down for days at a time cause of bugs and it was not alone) 97 and 98 was the time in which most of us old timers went shard hopping just to have somewhere to play! I remember one week all that was on the list was test center.
     
  47. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2004
    Messages:
    913
    Likes Received:
    61
    I still have characters named pacsdown or glsdown hehe.

    fighters had no magery let alone chivalry to recall or move around so we had to take the moongate and you couldn't pick where you wanted to go...it was all based on the the two moons phases. So we spent half the night just wanting to get to the right city. I spent a whole night just trying to get the right color pieces of my plate mail from the different blacksmith shops.
     
  48. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Oh my, do I remember that!
    I wish for a month ... just a month the kiddies who didnt have what we had to go through a small taste of the real 97 UO. No rune books had to be sooo carefull about your home and your stuff .....
     
  49. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
    Professional Premium Stratics Veteran Supporter Glorious Lord ACW

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    4,081
    Likes Received:
    2,259
    That's just awesome.

    Took me forever to realize. Once I had the regs I could recall or gate! :)

    Oh wait No rune books. Ok Hiking back to my house. with a bag slung across my back!
     
    #49 Lord Nabin, Nov 23, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
  50. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
    Professional Premium Stratics Veteran Supporter Glorious Lord ACW

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    4,081
    Likes Received:
    2,259
    What do you mean now a days?

    I have been working discord several hours a day for a month and still only at 110! :)

    I got to go. Might get a gain soon!


    *Wanders back into the forest in hunt of targets*
     
    Rhiannon likes this.