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You won, tamers are now on the short end

Discussion in 'UHall' started by bioras, Nov 29, 2008.

  1. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    First, please understand I have been in this game a couple days. I have at least GMd more chars than most would wish to.
    Honestly....it was always FAR easier to GM or leg a fighter skill in this game than it was to GM tame.
    Now....I have a secondary acct I am using for my kids. Both want to be tamers. At 85 to 90 on both of them taming and lore....I can't even control a lesser hiryu. So at master or near level...the most a new person can send at you is a bunch of bears.
    Still want to WHINE about tamers?
     
  2. controlfive

    controlfive Guest

    try 2x bake kitsunes
     
  3. Indeed you are probly trying to pull of a bull or wolf attept which is good as long as you haev time... but GMing taming took me 2 weeks of 1 hour a day at most :\ although p/h was around then :/ hrmm my how times have changed...
     
  4. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    A master tamer can't control 2 bakes now all the time. There have been a few changes. Now...only legacy tamers have a shot. NEW tamers...there are NO intermediate pets.
    War chars want to whine about tamers....But most of the whiners..don't have new tamers. They don't know how hard it is to gain in taming. (again...I have gmD MOST skills...)
    Any REAL PvPer knows how to kill a tamer.
     
  5. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    GM taming is pretty much worthless you gotta be 110 or better now. :(

    GM on most skills now days seems to be worthless. *SIGH* I remember back in the day when being a GM meant something.

    Nowadays all you gotta do is create a char, buy a advanced char token, and slap on a +15 ring and +bracer, volia "Shake N Bake" GM Tamer.

    Youngins today. *shakes head*
     
  6. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    Yes...you would think..but not even that now accts for anything. There are NO interm tamer slots. You either control a graeter drag.....or you have 4 bears.
    Just my humble op...but if you want to control greater drags....you work for it.
    Should you have to be 120 lore 120 tame just to control a LESSER hiryu??? NO
     
  7. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    You don't know what you're talking about.

    My taming is at 105. Lore is at 110. I have a rune beetle/mare combo, a cu sidhe, and a regular hiryu, all of which can be controlled easily. Occasionally the cu will tell me to fk off.

    You don't have to be 110 or 120.

    All I did was what the other joker mentioned above. I bought an adv char token and I had a really nice 1/2 ring with taming + the taming talisman. 0 effort to control the pets I mentioned above..

    And you don't have to be that high to control a lesser hiryu, you could also just get 90 bushido!
     
  8. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    Oh well then hon please...I paid 30$ for an avd tok. Oh btw..I have taken 2 chars to AT least Gm here. But you seem to know some magic trick. so share with the rest of of us. At 85 to 90 on all tamer stats I PAID for...This little char can not control a LESSER hiryu..a LESSER. I can't give a single comand to.
     
  9. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    My point is....ther is no longer a middle ground for tamers. You either have a greater drag..or you have a heard of bears.(or sheep. Hey..watch it...they bite)
     
  10. Petrify

    Petrify Lore Master
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    + taming jewels?
     
  11. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    Oh...btw again I paid $30 for a char that can only handle bears. How would you feel?
     
  12. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    Yep...hate to admit it..but yes..with jewels.
     
  13. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Like others have said you need to get some taming jewls. Should be easy to come up with a couple 10's at least and give ya almost 100 taming.

    Having said that you are correct that there is a decisive lack of middle of the line tameables. I would like to suggest knightmares and kirins. The one tameable you have forgotten that would likely do you and your ilk very well are frenzied ostards. While they don't have much in the way of hp they are most definately a force to behold when in a pack.
     
  14. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    I don't even want to tell you what this char is with jewels. lets just say say he is over elder with jewels, but still can't control a lesser hiryu. I know there have been changes, but did I fall asleep and miss something?
     
  15. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    There were changes made that require lore to be higher as well. Might be the issue you are having. If your lore is low it might explain things. Other than that I'm not sure what to tell ya. Everyone runs around with greater dragons for the most part but then again most have been playing for years and years and have maxed out the chars.
     
  16. i Ass/u/ME you are feeding it ?
     
  17. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    You could not be more correct. I have 2 tamers that are maxed or close to it. But for "new' tamers...what options are there? I paid almost $30 for a tamer char for my son. I gave him close to top jewels...etc... This char still can't controll a lesser hiryu. He has (yes I counted) maybe a 1 in 10 shot at controlling it. (108 taming 98 lore with jewels)
    It's been a while since I have had a new tamer, but are things that bad now? Do you have to be 120 on all 3 to controll a mid level pet now?
     
  18. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    Hehe I am feeding WELL more than I should have to. Is my char bugged?
     
  19. Anakena

    Anakena Seasoned Veteran
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    QUOTE=bioras;989395]You could not be more correct. I have 2 tamers that are maxed or close to it. But for "new' tamers...what options are there? I paid almost $30 for a tamer char for my son. I gave him close to top jewels...etc... This char still can't controll a lesser hiryu. He has (yes I counted) maybe a 1 in 10 shot at controlling it. (108 taming 98 lore with jewels)
    It's been a while since I have had a new tamer, but are things that bad now? Do you have to be 120 on all 3 to controll a mid level pet now?[/QUOTE]

    The lesser Hiryu has a taming difficulty of 98.7. This means that with 98 lore you are under the pet difficulty and will suffer and penalty in controlling it. If you had 103.7 in Taming and in Lore you would have full control.

    As other posters did, try a couple of bake bitsune. Their taming difficulty is 80.7 and you should have full controll on them at 85.7 Taming/lore (dead easy from the 85 you got from the advanced token).
     
  20. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Well, if I'd put that little effort into it, I'd feel happy with whatever I could manage. I get paid irl way more than $30/hour and it took me far more than 1 hour to get to gm taming, let alone legendary. If you want to pay rl cash for fully fleshed out characters, buy someone else's account.

    Otherwise, try these:

    2 x drakes
    5 x frenzied ostards
    hellhounds, hellcats
    imps, scorpions etc.

    There is content there for master tamers, you just have to think outside the mega-pet mindset. I don't know why you're pitching and ranting over having to 'earn' your greater dragon. If you're intent on fast-tracking your game, why not just use taming jewels? Just don't come back complaining of boredom when you get everything you want served up on a platter. :twak:
     
  21. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    Again 108 tame 98 lore should be MORE than enough for a mid level pet. If we were talking about greater drags, c us, etc...that is another issue. As an archer or swords..I can take out a lesser in the blink of any eye.
     
  22. Anakena

    Anakena Seasoned Veteran
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    Your character is not bugged, but you need just to acquire some knowledge and experience

    Here are a few resources :


    A good summary of the control formula is that you need to have lore and taming above the taming difficulty and have 10 point of skills (taming or lore)above taming difficulty for the full control. For bake bitsune (difficulty 80.7) 85.7 taming/lore give full control but 90.7/80.8 too.
     
  23. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    Wow, I would expect more from a mod. :(
    I did the tamer max twice. Close to a 3RD.
     
  24. Evilminion

    Evilminion Guest

    From what I've heard (I haven't tried it myself due to a lack of stable space), a pack of five hellhounds or hellcats can be very effective and lots of fun. Alternately, a pack of frenzied ostards... with the added advantage that you can ride one when you're not fighting.

    One thing you'll find is that Animal Lore gains VERY quickly if you're vetting, so after a few days of training up your pets, the only barrier to catching and controlling higher level critters will be the Taming skill itself.

    I know kids have short attention spans, but this might be a good time to teach 'em that things can be worth waiting for and working at. :)
     
  25. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    Thakns, I will try the ozzys. :)
     
  26. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I can tell you 5 frenzieds deal out more DPS than any high end monster.

    I have a bush/parry dexer with enough taming/lore to control frenzieds 2/4 commands (carry alot of food). I tank damage and have the frenzieds deal redic damage.

    To the OP: You don't know what you are talking about. EVERYONE has told you what to do. Work your damned lore up and stop whining. Thats the problem. There are calculators on stratics to determine control chance.

    To the mod: Suggesting someone buy an acct on ebay? Isn't stratics against UO items/etc for irl cash?
     
  27. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    No see its the lore. Lore counts for more than you might think. And Lors is EASY to gain! Spar a pair of horses guilded or in fel for 20-30 mins vetting and you should see 110 lore and THEN you will have control of a cu or even a greater. 105/105 is the greater . You wont lose it if you meet the min req.

    108/110 tame/lore
     
  28. ATLPvPer

    ATLPvPer Journeyman
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    #1 - The new scrolls coming out in the next publish will insta gain 0.5-1 skill point. It will be fairly easy to create a tamer.
    #2 - So, you are are "REAL PvPer" correct? Explain to me what I do when a single tamer with one greater dragon bolas or dismounts me with archery. You might say "well invis yourself of course!" okay. So I'm on foot and the first hit the dragon gets off is bleed. I can't run, I try to cast invis and bleed and the spells from the greater dragon fizzles me. Now he has hit me once and I'm half life, certainly can't run from him on foot. So say after 2 seconds I'm still alive but running for my life. All the sudden I see a fireball , 35-55 damage (usually on the higher end). After the first attack and bleed + fireball combo, I'm dead in 3 seconds. So what is your answer?
    The same is true of dread mares with the fireball / dismount, only now someone can mount them and chase you on foot while they are on a mount of death.
    But yea, I must not be a REAL PvPer.
     
  29. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    That's not the point. I have maxed most skills. It's far easier to max a melee or archer. I know the new pets may be hard to deal with. But only chars that have been here a while or um well...people that opt to purchase maxed chars can handle them.
    And I am sure you are a real Pvper, but maybe you aren't looking at your dilema from the right angle. Hint...hehe
     
  30. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I don't think you are looking too hard. There are plenty of pets available for lower-mid level players, yeah, maybe these pets cant wtf pwn a darkfather like a greater dragon, but a player with 90-100 skill shouldn't be expecting to do so anyway.

    Examples:

    Pack instinct (+25% damage per pet in pack) pets:

    Bull: Believe it or not... a pack of bulls can do pretty well. There was a guy on siege who hunted pks with a pack of bulls, and yeah, killed some of the more hapless ones, made many others run.
    Grizzly/polar bears: Take very little taming/lore to control 100%, and after a day of training 4 or 5 in tandem can easily kill mid level monsters like demons with a bit of vetting.
    Scorpions/spiders: Can only have 2 in the pack, but they can inflict greater poison, which helps.
    Dire wolves: Very similar to bears, have better overall resists, and do more damage.
    Hell hounds/cats: Like dire wolves but better yet. I have personally mowed down dragons with ease with my trained hellhound pack.
    Frenzied Ostards: Next step up from hell hounds. Even stronger. Require less taming.

    Non pack pets:

    Gaman: Yes they don't do much damage, but they have great resists for low taming, one slot pets. At very least they can tank pretty well.
    Drakes: Good resists, very high strength, good hps, fireballs... Very capable pets. Two can do well with many stronger monsters. Requires only 84.3 taming.
    Kirin/unicorn Takes around 100 taming to control well, but you can ride them, and they kick pretty decent butt, especially in pairs.
    Bake Kitsune: And better yet, requiring less taming than dire wolves, bake's have some of the best resists of ANY pet, and can really dish out the damage. These guys are pretty much good to go anywhere in the game, (peerless included) once trained up. They may not match damage output of higher pets, but they can live, and do good damage in their own right. FAR and away best power/durability per skill point required pet in the game.
    Rune beetle: Everyone seems to forget these guys only require 93 taming. One of the better damage output pets, and almost invulnerable to poison, and can be paired up with any of the above pets.
    Nightmare Ridable, 2 slots, quite strong.
    Dragon/white wyrm They aint what they used to be, but can be controlled pretty well with gm taming lore, and can hold their ground pretty well. Also pairable with any of the above 2 slot pets.

    So there you have it. A lonnnnng list of pets from 50 skill to 100 all of which can handle quite a lot, some of which are appropriate (if not optimal) for any monster in the game.

    I would also like to add, that taming, while tedious to train is not HARD (unless you worked in back in 98, that was sheer hell). It's just boring. There are many more stressful, and difficult skills to train. Taming is easy. Especially if you get the advanced character. All you have to do is get some savage kin paint, head to the savage village, to the ridgeback pen, and tame till 110. The savages will kill the instantly after you tame them, and they instantly respawn. They will take you to 120 if you can take the time involved.

    And along with that, the commonplace nature of skill+ jewels, training is easier (since you can quickly boost yourself up to "sweet spot" taming levels such as bulls and ridgebacks, then take them off when you can tame them normally) and even unnecessary, since tamers don't NEED any special jewels to be capable, like mages and warriors do, they can function perfectly well with 90 skill and 2 insured +15 taming jewels.
     
  31. Fink

    Fink Guest

    I don't actually mod this forum, incidentally, I'm just another poster. I've a feeling I wouldn't have this comment to respond to if I wasn't a mod.:twak:

    I was being facetious, sorry if you didn't pick up on that. Basically the OP wanted endgame content for rl cash. From the context of my post, I'm not an advocate of buying power-ups or item.. hence buying fully worked accounts is the extreme, deplorable example. :scholar:

    Nevermind, the OP didn't quite get it either. I need to work on my written communication skills.
     
  32. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WANT TO BE 120 for my cash!!!! NOW!!!!!! You are kidding again...right? Oh wait and you posted your income, so we can all guess you think you are better than anyone that doesn't make that right? Because we can all read that I stated I wish to controll greater drags (end game pets) now!!!!
    Please....don't twist someone elses words to make yourself seem better then post things like:
    Well, if I'd put that little effort into it, I'd feel happy with whatever I could manage. I get paid irl way more than $30/hour and it took me far more than 1 hour to get to gm taming, let alone legendary. If you want to pay rl cash for fully fleshed out characters, buy someone's account on ebay.

    Thank you
     
  33. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    You seem determined to dismiss the bake kits, but they *are* controllable at 90 tame/90 lore http://uo.stratics.com/content/skills/anim.php
    They're far better at hunting than a lesser hiryu. A well vetted bake kit can take out a paragon dragon - though not a greater I'll admit.

    On top of which, if they're for your kids, as you stated, they're far more fun to hunt with. My husband has a part-trained tamer on Siege who is using a pair of kits. He's doing very nicely with them.

    At master level I, personally, would ride a frenzied and hunt with bakes
     
  34. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    Yes, it counts for far more than it used to.
    After playing and vetting on his char for hours, it was only gaining in vet. (not that I don't like vet gains...) I have no idea why...but I guilded his char & put 2 horses against each other as you suggested. Now he is gaining lore like crazy. I'm not really sure why he couldm't gain durring normal play, but your suggestion is working well. Thank you.
     
  35. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    ...
    To begin with, I agreed with you.
    I'm rather fond of arguments for low/mid level content.

    Then, I read how you're conducting yourself in this thread, and I find myself not wanting to agree with you.

    Yes, we get it. You spent $30 on an advanced character token, and want nice creatures you can control.
    The thing being, that the difficulty of creatures is generally tied to how good they are.
    My second tamer can't tame/control the high end animals... So I use animals I can control.
    As has been said already, bake kitsunes are awesome, straight out of the box. With heavy vetting, I was about to kill an ancient wyrm, with a pretty untrained pair. During the current invasions, I've seen plenty of folks using kitsune.
     
  36. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Bioras, please don't get upset, it's simply a discussion.

    You got what you paid for with the advanced character token, which is a bargain in anyone's terms. Sorry if my example offended you somehow. Let's say you're on $6/hour. In five hours you could afford a token, which is much quicker than getting to 85 Taming the hard way. Still a bargain. Nowhere have I said I was better than anyone else, in fact it was you who said you "expect more from a mod". Again, sorry to disappoint, but I'm as human as anyone else.

    There have been a number of good responses regarding what you can do at your current levels, greater dragons notwithstanding. Feel free to comment further based on that but, please, lose the aggro.
     
  37. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    I wasn't being agressive to anyone, save one that came at me for no reason. If you read on past replys to that one poster you will see that.
    As always, I am very thankful for any suggestions.
    I haven't tried bakes for him. It took 1:15 for him to tame a mare and that was with my peacing. I am worried about him not being able to vet fast enough. I set macros so it is a 2 click thing...
    I just feel like there shoud be some good mid level pets for a mid to new player. Again...of course not drags and Cus etc... Not to take on drags or invasion spawn, just trolls, bakes, ants...
     
  38. ATLPvPer

    ATLPvPer Journeyman
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    Not really sure what you are getting at.
    I gave you a valid situation where Superdragons/tamer or dreadmare combos were vastly overpowered, and you are basically telling me to make a tamer??? My suit is 'maxed' to the extreme. A tamer with a bola and a Superdragon can still take me or anyone down in 3-4 seconds. Add in archery dismount to the mix and it takes less time. I'm not saying because I am a good pvper and I have a good suit I should be some kind of unstopable, but there should never be situations where the other player has absolutely no chance of survival (other than ganks)
     
  39. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    Thanks for all your help. Have fun. :)
     
  40. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    There are good mid range pets for tamers, it's all about knowing how to use them You can take out Ice Fiends with Polar bears easily due to their high cold resist. A trained pack of Frenzied Ostards used by a Peace Bard can mow down Cu Sidhe in seconds. Your falling into one of the greatest fail zones of Tamers in Ultima Online and I'm not saying this to be mean but your doing like a lot do and looking for quick and easy "Fire and Forget" pets. Being a good tamer isn't having the best GD out there, or the best Cu Sidhe it's knowing what pets are more effective in different situations. I hear people hating on Reptalons all day but they are far better taken to Travesty than a Cu Sidhe or a Greater Dragon if you want to look at damage output. I've had people laugh when I show up in the Twisted Wield with 5 Frenzied in town and then I get to laugh as they mow down doggies and they just start making stunned comments. Work up that Vet Skill and stand right there with your pets, or for area effect monsters stand back and Cast Greater Heal but take a part in hunting get in there and be active with it don't expect the pet to do all the work and find out what works best where. You'll do much better in groups when it comes to the instanced corpse :p I consistently pull 2x more loot than others at peerless when I go with a group of other tamers, using the right pets for the job not just the one's that can take the most beating.


    As far as PvP, I've seen inside the packs of half the PvP "tamers" on Chessy, most are sporting +Tame +Lore items in their packs to shave down on skill points and only equip them to command the pet, using hotkeys.
     
  41. I started just about a year ago and everyone said I was crazy being a tamer for my first character. I started from scratch and now with a +12 taming ring I am 115 taming. I found that mid level gains up to 80 were not hard but slowed down until I started using my jewels to get to 95 and concentrated on kirins. They got me to over 100. With the event I have been to busy to do anything but daily gains. However, I have been active with my pets and if you want a pair of pets that you can control below 100 and take on anything with vet. Get the Bakkes, I take my two out, they are not fully trained and do the crimsons. If there are some people willing to help heal them we do take down the crimson. It does take time, but as pets go two of them can take on just about anything. I have also used my cu for crimsons and the bakkes are better.

    Tamers are hard and I think people who always want them nerf'd have never played one recently. If you use a ring to tame a greater then you need to have rings on all the time to use it. Also vet requires you to stand with your pet. This is very hard on the armour, and really good mage armour with high mana regen and resists is very hard to find. Taming is the most difficult skill to learn and use. BUT it is the most rewarding as you get to see a progression to more powerful creatures.
     
  42. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    At 85-90 skill, there are more than enough good mid level pets to keep a training tamer happy. I have all my younger tamers using kitsune even those that are capable of using higher skill pets, so I'd say taming was fine with regard to pets for the younger tamers. The advanced char skills are certainly enough for controlling kitsune.

    What you have to remember is that taming isn't just about having the prerequisite skills for control, it's knowing how to use them, knowing what you and the pets are capable of and learning to handle pets in various situations. Those things don't come from an advanced character token, but the tokens give you a lot of trained skill points, more than enough to get going. How much fun you have starting out depends on how you approach it. You can't spend $30 on a token and expect the power of a 120 tamer.

    Taming isn't that difficult, it just takes time. But while there are skill boosting items and pets like the kitsune, I really don't think there's anything to complain about. Take the kits out, get a feel for what they can handle and while you vet you'll gain in lore and vet. Taming takes longer to raise, but if you do a little each day it'll get there. Use items if you're impatient. At the end of it you'll have a very powerful template, so the reward is worth the time you invest.

    Wenchy
     
  43. I think there may be something wrong with your character.

    I recently got an advance token, used it for taming. Almost immediately I could tame & control bakes. Don't know about lesser hiryus I don't see the point in getting one.

    I then macrod lore to 110, taming is still only 88 (waiting for the SOT's to come out)... but I have already got beetle and mare being trained up and the last few days I've been taming greater dragons.

    I can tame and use greater dragons (& all pets) practically from token just by throwing on some jewlery then take it off again when not needed (training while waiting to bond)... throwing on jewlery to gain an advantage then taking it off again, now why does that sound so familiar... not that the game is biased or anything, oh no, no possibility of that.
     
  44. shanshu

    shanshu Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

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    Are you using a bird slayer talisman with +5 lore and taming too? If not, then get one. Then get some better jewls. There is no way that your son is using close to top jewls. I purchased an advanced tamer token a few years ago (biggest mistake of my uo career) and ran with jewls that had both taming and lore on them + the tali until not too long ago. There is also the ancient farmers kasa which can add another 5 lore. Basically, what I am saying is, you are not trying hard enough. There is no way your lore should be anything less than gm with just basic equipment, and you said it was 98.

    Throw some jewls on, get a lesser and go train resist. Make a macro using UOA that lores, vets, lores vets, lores, vets and so on and you will cap in that skill how ever high you have it scrolled to in no time.Heck, I went from 117 to 120 lore yesterday in about 2 hours using that macro and pitting my greater against a shadow ele.

    Advanced tokens are a mistake for taming. There is too much experience and knowledge about handling pets that passes in between 0 skill and 85. The damage is done, just try to explore some of the options you've been given.

    Just out of curiosity, what is the vetting on this character and what are the specifics of the jewls. If you are on Atlantic, I might be able to help you out.
     
  45. FishinFool

    FishinFool Guest

    First off, contrary to popular belief - raising up a tamer is kind of hard especially if you start from ground zero.

    If you are having problems like that, then you are taking your jewelry off.

    As illustrated by Fink above there are loads of intermediate tames available for use. Just because they don't fit the power mold doesn't mean they aren't worth using. Actually, most of them have something special about them that puts the higher end pets to shame if used properly.

    Go outside of town, release the hiryu and retame, restable and rebond. IF you are bugged with that pet it will fix it.
     
  46. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    Soo in the OP he/she said it was their childs char they were twinkin. To me, that is a toy that was unfunctional out of the box(assembly required)
     
  47. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    Unbelievable.... The reason you don't go from 0 to full skill on your character is so you can learn to play the character as you progress in skill.
     
  48. laurlo

    laurlo Guest

    taming is a witch to gain and takes forever... and yes, you really aren't viable under legendary... maybe tamers were overpowered.. but they work the hardest to get there (I have taken to legendary nearly every skill - not even smithy/tailoring took as much work)
     
  49. Well on the bright side soon you will be able to SoT it and get faster gains :D
     
  50. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    My tamer has 115T/110L/110V and is more than viable. You are mistaken.