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Your Britannia Needs You

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Green Mouser, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest

    During the meet it was stated (obviously) if there was only one client running we citizens would get more updates, more content and less bugs. So the underlying question is this:

    Why are you CC users (which includes me) being selfish and holding your game hostage from crisp, effective and efficient progression?

    So I have responded to the call Britannia has made because I dont want to hold my beloved game back. I Want to do my Part!

    Well, this EC is a challenge and just like Old School training of Taming Skill, this will be a slow and and painful experience.

    Will you hear your Nations call?

    or will you keep our world sluggish in its evolution?
     
  2. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    I'd prefer continued access to both, as each has advantages.

    Also, are you certain that supporting two clients is the primary reason for lack of EC development? Most folks seem to be blaming the booster pack concept. I dunno, myself.
     
  3. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Already switched. Got a new computer and forced myself to make that change. And honestly I was irritated at first with many things. But I kept working with it and eventually I've grown to not only like it but to find that my game has improved quite a bit with it.
     
  4. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Sounds like Propaganda

    And hiding the failure of producing a real improvement of a client
     
  5. T-Hunt

    T-Hunt Sage
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    The EC movement graphics gives me migrains after awhile..like 10 min..
    Not sure if it has fetures like ctrl/shift for all names yet..

    And a way to make your backpack smaller..i like the old style packs..
    Housing building looks off for some reason..seems the angle of view is off axis..

    The rest is nice....wish they would add some KR graphics back in , like the sandstone look..
    The mobs were beter looking also i think..

    But who knows just hope they dont junk another client and try something else...
     
  6. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    The graphics are wretched. End of story.
     
  7. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    The "Ctrl/Shift" feature is there - and even better. You can set it to filter to show all dynamic objects, or just mobiles, or just corpses, or just npc's, etc. It is really helpful when trying to find a corpse.

    The backpack can also be scaled larger or smaller along with the rest of the user interface.

    On the graphics, I do think the KR graphics were better, but it's really not that critical of an item. If it were, would we really be playing a 13 year old game?
     
  8. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest

    I think their statement makes sense. If you add one graphic, it has to be done in 2 clients surely that equates to Dev time x2.
     
  9. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest

    So you play CC for the graphics and you dont play UO for the content?
     
  10. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest

    Would they be able to make serious client improvements if they could just focus on one modern client and not 2 clients, one of which is full of years of fixes, patches and unknown issues?
     
  11. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    Many people will NOT play a game solely based on bad graphics. But let me make it a little clearer for you. I've already tried to play the EC and after about 5 minutes I had to stop. 3D graphics and movement therein make me sick, literally. So if I was forced to play the EC, I would have to quit UO. Has nothing to do with the content and everything to do with my ability to not throw up every time I attempt to play.

    Besides, what is it to you if I don't like the graphics in the EC? You don't pay for my account.
     
  12. TMC Crowley

    TMC Crowley Seasoned Veteran
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    EC sucks and if it was the only client then i would shut down my 6 accounts and move on. I know alot of people feel the same way . And to be honest I think that would hurt uo more then anything .To many people only play the CC they don't like the EC .
     
  13. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    EC is only going to be as good as the community of modders who support it. Basically, most 2D people wanted EC features in their 2D client. Therefore, time to time, 2D art, or replica art, has been added to the EC client in order to make that client more like 2D. Why didn't EA just rebuild the 2D client from scratch?

    2D graphics aren't going to improve UO, no matter how mock 3D they are. Advanced features, macros, etc. will improve UO. If people want a better looking UO then EA should just abandon UO as it is now and make a real UO2 this time. As I've said before, and others before me, Dragon Age engine, UO2 MMORPG. Make it happen, EA Bioware-Mythic. I mean, seriously.

    Speaking of Dragon Age, I still need to beat the first one :( lol.
     
  14. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    QFT.
     
  15. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    EC graphics and movement are not easy on my old eyes. EC has advantages but then CC does as well.
     
  16. Luvmylace

    Luvmylace Sage
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    At the risk of a warning I venture to say that EC is a poor excuse for 3D. It can never grow up to be 3D. The only way I would leave CC is if the entire system and Game Machine were to be upgraded to current standards and even then ,the game will lose some of it's ambiance. It was a valiant attempt to appease the people who wanted 3D. But if you truly love UO , play your game your way and please stop ramming the EC down our throats. The designers get it ,we love our UO the way it was meant to be played
     
  17. TMC Crowley

    TMC Crowley Seasoned Veteran
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    Very well said:thumbup1:
     
  18. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    :bdh:
     
  19. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    From a diehard CC user.
    There are 2 sides to playing any game to me.
    1. How you control your part of the game, the UI. CC is very easy to use, but limited in its actions so a lot of CC users add UOA. EC is a better UI than CC, not as easy to use but with time will become as easy to use as the CC. Is EC better then CC + UOA, each has its benefits and the EC UI can be added to. There are Modders out there adding more and more ways to control the game everyday. Keep up the good fight.
    From a diehard CC user, IMHO the EC UI is hands down the better UI.

    2. What the game looks like. Here is the biggest, let me repeat that, the biggest problem with the EC is its graphics. UO devs have 3 graphic sets in their possession.
    CC crisp clear graphics, easy to look at for hours and hours of game play.
    KR for those that had machines that could run them were a big step up in graphics and had a lot of thought put into them.
    EC fuzzy and out of proportion, very hard to look at for more than 30 min of game play. 12 years of UO and until I loaded and tried the EC I never realized an Ethie Ozzy had a tail. The way they are done in the CC it never stood out so I never noticed it. In the EC it looks like I am riding a Raptor from Jurassic Park not an Ethie Ozzy. Totally out of proportion. This is one of many, many things wrong with the graphics in the EC.

    IMHO here is the way I would fix the EC. Put in a graphics selection CC / EC / KR.
    CC would look just like the CC but have the EC UI.
    EC no change
    KR EC UI with the KR graphics.

    UO wins all the way around.
    CC users can stop complaining about the graphics in EC and give EC an honest try.
    EC users lose nothing, but might gain in that UO might be able to go to ONE CLIENT.
    KR you get your graphics back and keep the EC UI Win/Win
     
  20. Babble

    Babble Guest

    They should check out Diablo 3 graphics. I think if they would manage that then people would play with one client.
    :)
     
  21. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    I play for both...I play for the whole package. If they change the package, then I might as well play another game.
     
  22. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Why change graphics yet again.
    CC users want CC graphics (all) in EC
    EC users want it to stay as is
    KR users want KR graphics (all) in EC

    Graphics switch CC/SA/KR = WIN/WIN/WIN

    How hard would that be.
     
  23. Siteswap

    Siteswap Visitor

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    For dozens of reasons that have been stated over the months in numerous threads ... NO THANK YOU.

    The EC client is not a "challenge". It in my opinion is an abomination, although I dont have any objects to it being in existence as an alternative client for those who prefer it.

    You ask too much. The EC will NEVER replace the CC for the majority of users. Keep your crusade to yourself please ... I want no part in it.
     
  24. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    They did try to build the 2D client from scratch - It was called Kingdom Reborn.

    To the OP:

    As has been stated, the BIGGEST issue with EC (and by proxy, KR) was the graphics.

    In the instance of KR, the style was almost completely different. Resolution was there, but for many of us, it didn't LOOK like it was in the style of UO. See Saphireena's high-res challenge for what a high-res UO should look like.

    In the instance of EC, they tried to tried to bring CC's style back into it, which was good. But they didn't clean it up to fit the new engine, and what's worse, they tried to hybridize it with KR. So now in EC, I look like a fuzzy man with a trashcan on his head, which is the absolute worse of both client mindsets.

    And in both cases, scale has been an issue. And for some, apparently, motion sickness.

    Hands down, the EC UI is fantastic, and the client is much more stable than KR was. Modders have already done some wonderful things, like DermottLS' Enhanced Copper. I think on the whole, it's even better than CC with UOAssist once you get used to it.

    So when I don't care what I look like, or when I need to take advantage of the incredible UI, I use EC. When I'm RP'ing, or want to see what something SHOULD look like (Like my house), I use CC + UOA. And I understand UOA is good for vendors as well, though I couldn't say because I don't have one.. Yet. And it'd be nice if someone could get EC to do bag sorting like UOA too.. That's probably the feature of UOA I'd miss the most.

    And for all you're rabble-rousing, you're forgetting the BIGGEST holdup to adaptation and progression - the Devs.

    If they would just stop making excuses, do the hard leg work of redoing the artwork in the same palette and style of CC and make it crisp, you'd have a much, much higher adoption rate, and would get more people to try it than currently do.

    Yes, I'm aware some would never switch no matter what for any reason. I'm not talking about those people. More people would give it a fair shake if and potentially adapt if they cleaned it up. Enough to probably make the argument that CC users are in the minority and they could discontinue it.

    .. Which I agree would be great for UO, if they could get the artwork together...


    AND FIX MY DAMN TRASH CAN HEAD! (Sorry, I add this line to every EC discussion.. Not quite used enough to put in my Sig yet).
     
  25. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
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    the EC graphics are god awful - 2 minutes of looking at it is 2 minutes too long
     
  26. Cryltaur

    Cryltaur Guest

    Me too! Took a week or two, but I'm really starting to dig the features in the EC.
     
  27. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Aye, me too
    Most of the features in EC are unquestionably better and beyond any CC features (EC does still lack some UOAssist features);
    but the graphics are somewhere between CC and KR... and I do not like that, because I still enjoy the familiarity of CC graphics and more-so enjoyed the creative evolution of KR graphics; but I'm not into the middle-of-the-road-mash that the EC was forced to pseudo-assimilate betwixt the two...
    That said, I would love a toggle switch for high-and-low -end graphics (aka CC and KR graphics in the EC), and then hopefully finally see an honorable execution of the one that started it all, the great CC, our motherly Wombat that has, without a doubt, become too cumbersome to allow efficient, significant evolution of: A: our shared playtime with and B: (most necessary) future enjoyment of all that is UO. Without improving and evolving these days, how can there be a positive future?

    ...---...

    (Unfortunately the EC will require more computing power than CC. Yet I bet most computers bought within the past 5 years should handle the EC just fine with effects turned off. My ol' backup ~9 year old computer can handle it, without issues, with all the bells-and-whistles tuned on.. granted I built it well, did not spend more than $800 on it back then, and have not upgraded anything on it in about ~7 years)
     
  28. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    :/ KR was an attempt at a UO facelift (ie "Reborn"), with elements such as swaying trees etc in order to make the game look somewhat more 3D. it was NOT the 2D classic client rebuilt from scratch, lol and 2D refers only to the CC. same problem as LBR, same thing now with EC. I mean how crazy is it that they attempted THREE clients and people STILL wanted the one they made around '97? crazy. except the major difference is the EC runs a lotttttttttt better than KR did, at least for me. yeah, KR was at times much prettier, but I'd rather have solid game mechanics, and for me, EC is a lot more efficient (despite it being forever in Beta).

    anyway, my roundabout point is EA put themselves in this major hole. they could have just reengineered the old 2D client to make it modder friendly, instead they haven't advertised in probably three plus years and theyre sitting on an ancient tile-based game with twice the work load due to two clients, and no successor in sight. just seems crazy.
     
  29. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    I hugely prefer the CC, but don't mind the money I pay to EA being split to support both that client and the 'Enhanced' one, since a lot of people prefer that to the classic.

    However, there's rather a large leap of logic going on at the heart of this discussion - did I miss a time when EA managed 'crisp, effective and efficient progression' when there WAS only one client for them to support? Can't say I remember UO being massively less buggy a few years ago, before they were working on KR, or working on the new client..... These argument about these supposedly 'much more frequent bug fixes and improvements' makes sense on the surface, but if we never saw it before there were two clients, why should anyone think it would happen now?

    As for those who argue 'unless the game evolves it will die' - I've been hearing that for at least ten of UO's thirteen years. I'm sorry, but I reckon it's just another chant without any real evidence behind it, although it sure makes a good catchphrase.

    If there is such a desperate need for a single new client to avoid some nebulous 'death by obsolescence' for UO - let's build a much better, higher res version of the classic client, add in UOA and automap functionality, and maybe the EC UI - and settle on that.

    Personally, much as I'd love to play that client, I don't see the need is really there to prevent this odd 'damage to the future of UO' theory, and I certainly remain unconvinced that paying for and playing the game the way I prefer is in some bizarre way 'holding it back'.
     
  30. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    I think the enhanced client offers a lot of great features. I think the static graphics (trees, water) look nice. Unfortunately monsters, players, etc look terrible and movement makes me dizzy and nauseous. I don't know why anyone would play a client that makes them dizzy.
     
  31. +1 for this post and +1 for the "sounds like propaganda" post, too.
     
  32. Garrett

    Garrett Guest

    If there were to just fix ONE issue I have with my mousewheel targeting, I would be more than ecstatic to play the EC even through how hideous it is (I play 2D... vomit in the form of graphics doesn't mean much to me). But as it stands it makes my main utterly useless to me when all I can do is two spells before I suppose the client tries to target self/last for every tick on my wheel.

    Beyond that it's an okay client, can use some "prettying up" but it's only a little horrific which is livable for me.
     
  33. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    i get that dizzy feel when using it. The Classic Client has such a clean look to it. That is why i can't bring myself to use the Enhanced one. There was an artist who rendered the City of Britain in a true 3D look. It was spot on! i seriously felt like i was there. That little taste of it left me longing for it. When the 3D client was annouced years ago, if they had truly made it 3D, i think we'd be in a different place right now. We love our game, but we are longing for the next step in realism to match our realism in gameplay.

    A quick search on google and i found this (which i can't post because apparently it is a 3rd Party Application and i didn't know). They need to hire this guy and let him go to town, litterally. Sadly he has probably given his talent to some other program now.


    Maybe if they messed around and took the best of both worlds, and moved forward, i would go for it. i am for the future of our world.


    longing to look at the stars,
    gidge
     
  34. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Successor is SWTOR and they expect at least a million accounts
    :)

    I hope for thenm it will not be another SIMSOnline or Warhammer though
    :p
     
  35. Prime.

    Prime. Sage
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    I play UO for both, I love the content, but if they ever got rid of CC or stopped adding updates/expansions etc to it, is when I stop playing uo! I can't stand the 3d graphics in WoW/UO Enhanced/EQ and all those other terrible looking games.
     
  36. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    This to me says it all. You have to force yourself to use the EC. If it was so great to begin with you would have changed willingly. LOL And you expect us to force ourselves to play a game we have enjoyed for 13 years as is.
     
  37. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    The EC is a beta client and so isn't even fully supported. The only thing I use the EC client for is to search through a container that has 125 rings, bracelets, armor pieces, or my commodity deed box when crafting or when mining.

    A new guildmate came over and I told he could get the enhanced bandages out of my Fountain of Life. I made him feel like a dummy not knowing in the EC he couldn't even see it because of graphic problems. The EC is not done.

    -Lorax
     
  38. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    The "Force" is in forcing yourself to break 13 year old habits. Once most really give it a chance (week or more), they really seem to like it - in spite of the graphics complaints.
     
  39. Babble

    Babble Guest

    :p
    Yes, play an up to date game instead of a 13 year old one
     
  40. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Hehe well I played SWG for three years and that as a lot of fun :) just I never liked the PvP. SWTOR does look sorta cool ;P ... I never played Warhammer, but I read about SIMSOnline and, er, I steered clear of that one, haha. Sounded like Second Life.

    Hm, and hopefully SWTOR will have Mon Calamari, lol.
     
  41. Luvmylace

    Luvmylace Sage
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    I disagree if we wanted a change in graphics we would be playing another game like Age of Conan with beautiful art and stunning graphics.
    If we wanted to break 13 year old habits we would move on to another game not distastefully swallow what you call enhanced.
     
  42. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I would simply not play if I had to use the "EC".

    To me, there is no choice, and it's a group of usurpers attempting to steal the kingdom. Britannia needs me and those like me to destroy those usurpers.
     
  43. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    This.
     
  44. canary

    canary Guest

    Well, just keep in mind some of us would LIKE to break a 13 year old habit but the way the EC looks that will be impossible.

    Some love classic, some love 'enhanced', and some of us just want to be done with both and look to the (highly improbable) day that a client that is modern, appealing and polished is brought forth. The CC nor is the EC really any of those.