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A proposition for upcoming treasure hunting(long)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by athos_uo, Mar 6, 2010.

  1. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Since devs say, during the latest UOHoC chat, that they are "looking into updating the MIB's and Treasure Chests in the futrue", I'd like to present my thought on it.

    I'd like to focus on Treasure hunting for the moment.


    According to my thoughts, treasure hunting has following features:
    - searching where treasure chests are burried itself gives a pleasure
    - fighting and conquering guardian monsters is interesting
    - rewards in treasure chests are also attractive in treasure hunting

    But the second and the third one are not restricted only to treasure hunting. Fighting monsters in Doom or in SA dungeons is and should be also attractive. And the rewards are and should be also correspondent with efforts paid for them. So, if new monsters or new items are introduced into game, these pleasures in treasure hunting get relatively decreased. Therefore, revamping guardian monsters and rewards should be continually done according to game evolution. In other words, these 2 features are not the pleasure of treasure hunting itself.

    Then, what is the pleasure specific for treasure hunting? I think it is searching treasures.

    But, as you all know, PCs find no pleasure in searching treasures. Why? Because the places where treasure chests are burried are all found and recorded in databases.

    At this point, we should consider two cases - treasure hunting for soloing and for party.

    When you do treasure hunting alone, there's no problem, because you don't need to refer to databases. You can spend time for searching treasure chests as you like.

    But if we do it in party, we find another problem. Actually, this is an essential problem in treasure hunting in UO.

    When we do treasure hunting in UO, the person who can search treasure chests are restricted to PCs with a cartography skill. Thjs can guarantee the entity of cartography, but means at the same time that PCs without cartography can do nothing in searching treasure chests in UO. So when we go treasure hunting in party, PCs without cartography must wait for Cartographers to find treasure chests, in inoccupation.

    This is the essential problem of treasure hunting in UO. I read once a diary of treasure hunting on a fan site. There was no database at that time. That player had a cartography skill, and seached treasure chests for some time but couldn't find them. In the meantime, other members went somewhere to do other things, and he found himself alone.

    If you can find party members who can wait until you finaly find treasure chests, there's no problem. Unless you can find such party members, you can't help refering to the database. The database arose from the necessity to avoid the problem mentioned above.

    If we can't solve this problem, there's no other way to revamp treasure hunting than to introduce attractive guardian monsters or to revamp the reward. But, as already mentioned, it is not revamping treasure hunting itself.

    Then, I'd like to make a propositon: a special party system for treasure hunting.

    - A cartographer can form a special party
    - Members in the party can have the same skill value of Cartographer as the partyhost(=Cartographer)
    - Copies of the treasure map deciphered by the partyhost emerge in backpacks of party members
    - Party members can read the copied map and can search the place where threasure chests are burried

    In this way, all members can play substantially treasure hunting without Cartography, and Cartographer doesn't lose its entity.

    Of course, this process should be coded carefully, so that it shouldn't be used for duping.

    Then, the places where treasure chests are burried should be randomized. It will be very difficult to search the places, but the difficulty will be spreaded among party members.

    How about this?
  2. Laina

    Laina Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    May 23, 2008
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    The reason my t-hunter is on a soulstone right now is because the loot is terrible. If it took even longer for the same loot, I'd be less likely to treasure hunt if that's possible. Actually, with randomization, I'd probably just toss the level 6 ones I've been saving since almost 2 years ago when I first heard talk about the developers looking into t-hunting.

    Personally, I don't mind that we know all the locations. I would rather see more spawn and better loot to share with a group.
  3. T-Hunt

    T-Hunt Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Apr 15, 2003
    Likes Received:
    I made a T-Hunter back in 99 for the main reason of geting beter armor or weaps.

    I got hooked the first time i saw some locked chest by some orcs.. and found a tmap..

    Back then it was fun...you dreamed of finding a few rings with teleport or inv.
    Or maybe spell reflect and night sight, then dont forget the item id wands, they were even beter.

    Regs and the sweet power katana or invul armor peice was even beter.

    But today the treasures just BITE....wen i can get the same loot from a lvl 2 tmap that a lvl 5 has, theres something wrong.

    Make the loot lvl to what you got the map from...

    And add some of the new imbuying items, give people a reason to do them.

    Maybe even add a few artys to the pack.....1% chance or so, its no different then people farming Navrey for hours on end...

    Its a treasure make it like opening a Christmas gift, you never know whats in there...
  4. Walker B

    Walker B Guest

    I agree, I would love to bring my T-Hunter out of retirement.
  5. Endrik

    Endrik Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Feb 20, 2007
    Likes Received:
    The loot is the biggest attraction to doing T-Maps. When you are hunting for treasure, you want to find treasure, not crap. And even worse then finding crap is a long drawn out search for crap.

    I rarely use my GM fisher for the same reason. I can only cast once every what 12 seconds? And even at GM, 95% of what I pull up is placed in a trash bag and left to decay. The Ancient SOS's are fun, but they are so rare its insane. Sailing a boat to the right coordinates... or "searching" for the treasure spot is not fun, its boring. The only reason to do it is the chance at a cool reward.

    I have over 250 lvl 6 T-Maps, and I dont plan on doing any of them until there are some major changes made. However, I LOVE that I can recall directly to a spot and dig up that treasure. It still takes work to decode the map, search for the matching pic in my collection, find the right rune, and go. If it was all random and I had to walk there... I would never again use my T-Hunter. When I get on UO, I wan to play and have fun. The last thing we need is something that will take the time I can spare to play, and make me use it for boring, monotonous, dry work.

    I understand where you are coming from... but the fun of doing T-maps is NOT searching for them... its the thrill of the possibility of getting something cool. We dont need them to be more boring and take longer, we need them to be more exciting, with better incentive.
  6. I still run every map I can get my hands on, as I just love t-hunting. However, I would love to see a revamp to the treasure/guardians.
  7. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    I don't think your idea really solves the problems. You're trying to get everyone in a party involved, but the search isn't the ONLY reason people get bored with the process. If they aren't getting interesting rewards for the effort, or if there is no danger/excitement, most people won't do more than a couple of maps.

    My suggestions for any revamp?

    1) Fully randomize maps again, but add maps to all facets and all terrain. I wouldn't mind squares of 'probability' again, but the devs should have the system regularly re-build it's lists of treasure plots, on EACH shard.

    2) Make the maps linked not from just loot drops, but npcs and creatures that actually MAKE the maps. Have certain creatures that can spawn, wander to a spot they like (the treasure spot), *dig*, place *whatever*, make the map and then carry it to other creatures. The more dangerous the map-maker, the more dangerous the map. Or perhaps the maps can be tied through the old "quest" system that we originally had, where npcs would also have items that are in the loot of the chest that we can get further quests and rewards from.

    3) Make the maps all provide "nearby" loot (on land, make it appropriate types of ingredients, junk, etc.) and extra spawns. Allow partied (or just players in the area) all be able to dig and potentially get materials and items. The higher the map the higher the rewards and danger. Not just creatures, but also lava gouts, water/rockslides, etc. Traps as well. Just all sorts of interesting events to tie in to finding the correct spot. Perhaps digging in/near graveyards yields grave dust, fertile dirt, daemon blood, seeds and other side things. Perhaps digging near a lake/ocean yields sand, bottles, shoes, etc.

    4) Add multi-spot maps. These would be maps that lead to a spot, which then CAN lead to a progressive (higher level) spot, and so on, based on luck and skill. These multi-maps could also have intermediate quests to find/talk to creatures or npcs, potentially with timed results.

    5) Spawns shouldn't just "happen". They should tie to something in the area that may be a clue, to perhaps decrease or increase the spawn level. Some of the spawn may actually come from elsewhere and 'speedhack' its way to the digging area to beat up the treasure stealers. For instance, digging a map near an orc area might 'alert' the encampment and a large party may be sent to the digging site. Digging in a graveyard might disturb the undead there, but also annoy some necromancers from town.

    6) Loot should be interesting, but not just 'add arties'. I think map loot should have its own unique rewards, with a couple of items that are very desirable. With commensurate toughness. However, the gold and gem returns should match up with the number of people helping with the dig.

    7) The better you are at treasure mapping, the more likely it should be you get -renowned- creatures to spawn, better loot, and potentially special titles for you and your party. The system could keep track of the type and level of maps you do and complete.

  8. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 2, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Be really good also after the loot is revamped. T map locations in the 3 other maps. Ilsh Tok and SA have open air spawn that would make getting a chest dug up in some areas an adventure. Also the added bonus of getting Paragon chest in Ilsh from monsters that are not native to there.

    I would like to see a cartographer map book. where you can drop a map and a marked rune. That next page looks like the map with a recall gem and the runes title.

    I wont touch fishing. The whole next expansion needs to be seafaring in nature.
  9. jack flash uk

    jack flash uk Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Oct 21, 2006
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    i finished a T hunter a short time ago, loved the searchnig, hooked after the turkey nest event!

    sadly after about a dozen i lost interests due to dodgy rewards, level 6 only

    hopefully there will be a new expansion with fishing t hunting floating towns etc, all rumours, but in the mean tiem they could move to "phase 2" loot, for doom fishing and t hunting, remove ALL current marti/arti rewards and create new ones, then in a few months, another set, then when it has rotated a few times re-introduce original and so on, keeps interst and value up and gets players out there again
  10. Wilde1

    Wilde1 Guest

    My thunter is dismantled atm because the loot quality is so poor. I still save devious and ingenious maps in the hopes they one day fix it.

    I don't want a revamp of the whole map coordinate system, though I wouldnt mind adding maps to the "new" areas (like ilshenar is new, lol) and letting folks figure out the coordinates to add to their rune libraries. I know i dont want to spend hours digging around to try to find a tchest each and ever time.

    Right now its a loot issue. Loot tables are 10 years old for tchests. Bring the loot tables up to date and add a chance for a major artie (very low at lvl 1, increasing with level of chest), and it once again might be worth getting a few guildies together for an afternoon of treasure hunting.
  11. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Feb 27, 2004
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    I would like to see as an addition to Treasure Hunting, at least for the level 6 chests, ML Peerless and SA imbuing reagents to spawn.
  12. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    May 28, 2003
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    I've soulstoned Cartography as well. Nothing in the chests are worth going after, particularly with Imbuing added to the game.

    Changes I would like to see would be:

    Fewer pieces of but much better quality gear in the chests. (Most chests I figure I dug up someones trash, not their treasures)

    ML & SA supermonster items. (A way to get crafting materials)

    Another map being in the chest on occasion. Preferably to a chest that is guarenteed to have a very good item. Something very high end that even an uber-gear kid would think might be worth hanging onto.

    Having the guardian monsters and spawning monsters vary. Right now you know what you will have to fight for each level chest. How about having them spawn from a large list of possible monsters? It would add some excitment. :) Will a half dozen Ogre Lords & an Ancient Wyrm spawn? Or only one monster, something out of the Doom Guantlet or an ML dungeon boss? Maybe 30 Orc mages all at once? It would make group Thunts much more fun & unpredictable. :) Also, have the monsters wander back to the chest site if they lose target-lock on the character thay are chasing. They are the chest guardians after all.
  13. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    May 20, 2008
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    An' update to the treasure hunting system would be perfect for a pirate themed expansion. *coughs* Can't blame me for hoping!
  14. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Premium Stratics Veteran Wiki Moderator Stratics Legend

    Mar 18, 2004
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    Great post Athos ! thats how a post should be worded! not inflammatory pointed out what was wrong and gave idea to fix it! altogether a great read and good idea!
  15. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Jan 30, 2003
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    Athos, I like your analysis and your ideas. I would take it a bit further and argue that the reward is a pretty big goal in treasure hunting too. The problem with the rewards is that they are the same as you can get basically anywhere else in game. When I think of treasure, I think of something unique. In addition to the basic contents of the chest, there should be a chance of something unique that cannot be obtained anywhere else in game. These items need to change over time so that they do not become stale like the minor artifacts. Additionally, treasure chests need to contain expansion items. Right now it's still the basic stuff since UO's release.

    Fishing needs attention too. Many years ago, a player by the name of abysidian had the idea of themed fishing chests. For example, a woodworking themed shipwreck chest might have furniture or decor made out of exotic wood and materials. There are tons of possibilities. I hope the devs do something really creative.
  16. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    - To those who want to see rewards and guardian monsters revamped:
    I agree with you. I also think that rewards and guardian monsters should be revamped, as already mentioned in someone's post, over time and according to evolution of the game. I just say that they are not specific to treasure hunt and what is specific to treasure hunt should be reviewed.

    - To those who love the current system of treasure hunt and want it not to be changed:
    It'a pity that we cannot find an agreement. I'd like to think more about this and to post another proposition after some time.

    - To Storm:
    Thanks! It would be nice, if we could exchange constructive thoughts and opinions!
  17. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    Nice post.

    My T-hunter has been left alone many times when looking for a treasure. Often times I look up the wrong spot on THB and then have to run to the next spot, by then everyone in my guild is over it. More so because they loot is basically something you can find on a blood elemental.

    I really do enjoy playing my T-Hunter, but to be perfectly honest, I haven't played him in months.

    Here are a few of my thoughts.

    1. If a T-hunter goes into a peerless room, could there be a side room only accessible to T-hunters? Pick the lock on a door, fight through some additional guardians, and get something? A captive audience is the best audience. By this I mean, Your friends are already there doing the peerless, they probably would help you out.

    2. Searching for chests was bonkers, the main reason THB was so popular was because the maps are sooooo bad. Please, please improve them. If this happens, I would most certainly search for them. Well to be honest I would search for them even if the maps were bad, I just wouldn't pull out nearly as much hair.

    3. I would also love chain type Treasure hunts, get a clue, go to this place, dig something up, get something and a clue, go to next spot and so on and so forth.

    4. Please, please, please update the arties given. I seriously use none of the arties from T-hunts on any of my characters. Heck even essences of whatever would make it totally worth my time. I have enough candelabras to last 10 lifetimes, perhaps a turn in for Treasure hunters as well. Like the ones in Brit or Vesper. Would make continuing to T-hunt worthwhile even if the arties are stale.

    Anyhow, Hope you have a great day, I also hope you can bring my T-hunter back to life. E
  18. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    May 16, 2008
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    I am always on board for any change that improves T-Hunting. T-Hunting for me was one of the coolest things to do in this game. I loved my T-Hunter and was excited when I finally GMed cartography. I was pulling up items and looking forward for when the RNG would grant me an awesome weapon.

    Now days the loot just sucks. Not worth the time. Still fun but I never pull up anything good. Still keeping my T-Hunter.

    Unfortunately I moved lockpicking over to another character and I think I forgot to stone the skill before I deleted that character :( Still got my GM cartgoraphy at least.
  19. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Mar 18, 2003
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    There should be an ever so small chance of at LEAST a minor arty in a chest. Any chest, not just the ones that are dug up. If the drop rate for a Doom item is 1 in 50, let treasure hunters have a 1 in 250 at least....no?
  20. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    May 16, 2008
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    Level 5 and/or 6 always have one minor artifact. A rare chance for a doom artifact would be awesome though.
  21. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    All we want is better loot!! Hell they messed up all loot because of imbuing. They need to make random loot incredibly good. 10-20 properties with 50 and up max mods they need to make a whole system now to make PVM and treasure loot attractive again.
  22. Post-AOS, treasure hunting hasn't been worth the trouble. I still have a t-hunter, and occasionally do a few maps for fun, but I went through a whole box of 125 level 6 maps over the course of a week and a half, and, other than the marties, I just got a couple of items that would make relic fragments out of maybe 5,000 pieces of pure crap. In comparison, I could hunt Miasmas and get maybe 15-20 items that would turn into relic fragments in an hour. Anything less than level 6 maps just isn't even marginally worth the trouble. And even with level 6 maps, you'll get the booby prize marties most of the time. After SA, even the hat isn't worth much. And the level 6 maps usually have 2 or 3 ancient wyrms guarding them. The risk is like 1,000 times what it should be for the crappy benefit.

    If I was the lead Dev, here's what I would do:
    1. No more marties.
    2. Each chest has ONE weapon, properties like you would get from a runic hammer. Level 1: DC/Shadow hammer. Level 2: Copper Level 3: Bronze Level 4: Gold Level 5: Agapite Level 6: Valorite Maybe a small chance that a level 6 chest will have an artie instead of the weapon or armor.
    3. Each chest has ONE piece of armor or jewelry, with the same runic values.
    That means that a level 6 chest will usually have 2 items that can be unraveled for relic fragments, a level 5 chest will have items that may or may not make frags. And a lot of the items will be useful. No more wading through 5,000 items to find the one that's worth saving.
    4. No more than one AW guarding a level 6 chest.
    5. Make sure that every island with level 6 chests has a healer, so T-hunters don't have to use the "help i'm stuck" option so often.
    6. I like the fact that we can easily find the locations. If I'm hunting with a party, I don't want to have to spend an hour trying to find the treasure. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    7. Add some different monsters. I wouldn't mind seeing four Miasma or swoop instead of even one AW. On the other end of the scale, I would about have a heart attack if I opened a chest and saw two Rends, a Slasher of Veils and a Barracoon.
    8. When we kick in the chest, the leftover spawn should poof in a couple of minutes. It's not fair for somebody to stumble onto an AW that we didn't manage to kill.
  23. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    May 12, 2008
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    First off, I'd like to confirm the process of current treasure hunt:
    [1] To get a map of the current system from monsters
    [2] To decipher the map( which requires Cartography Skill )
    [3] To search location where treasure chests are buried or to refer to a database of treasure maps
    [4] To dig treasure chests out ( which will be facilitated according to Mining skill )
    [5] To defeat guardian monsters
    [6] To open treasure chests ( which requires Picklocking and will be facilitated according to Detect Hidden skill )
    [7] To get rewards

    Then, I'd like to present an alternative way to get rewards. [1] to [2], and [4] to [7] will not be changed. Only [3] will be changed:
    All the locations will be put together to virtue dungeons. Each dungeon will have a treasure room on its each level of floors. For example: In Despise dungeon, at the corner of north-west of level 1, there is an unused room. This room will be treasure room. If an eligible cartographer, i.e. a PC with enough Cartography skill, uses a treasure map at the entrance of this room, it will be opened and let him together with his party in. In an appropriate period the entrance will be closed, and treasure chests and guardian monsters emerge. When the party defeats guardian monsters, the process of [3] to [7] will follow.
    These rooms will be instanced room, and a party in the room will be kicked out after a certain time. 60 minutes? or 90 minutes? I don't know. Devs can set an appropriate interval.

    The merit of the current system of treasure searching is that we are forced to go to various areas of Britannia, which increases our knowledge of the terrain of Britannia. This is a significant merit which would be lost if the current system were substituted by my alternative system. But, instead, my system will increase the chance you visit legacy dungeons.

    I think, there will be various ways to substitute the current system of treasure searching. I just present you one of them.

    How about this? How do those, who are enjoying the current system of treasure searching, think about this alternative way?

    And at the same time, the new system of treasure hunting that I first presented and that is difficult in searching treasures, will be introduced.

    There will be some options:
    (1) To replace all the treasure hunting with my first proposition = entire renewal
    (2) To introduce my first proposition only in Ilshenar or Tokuno and to let the current system remain as is now = adding a new system partly
    (3) To introduce my first proposition and to substitute the current system with my second proposition: adding a new system and substituting of the current system

    If you choose (2), my second proposition will be useless, hehe.
  24. mikni

    mikni Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Apr 14, 2007
    Likes Received:
    I would like the chests to only contain a few items, but with guarantied high properties. It's a treasure someone took the time to dig down and hide, not a trash barrel.