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Discussion in 'UHall' started by Chardonnay, Jul 5, 2008.
When we gonna implement this?To fix the taming/ninja imbalance...
When are people going to stop crying about this? I dont see a problem with this, and Im not even a ninja tamer.
Animal form requires invested skill points...
Not to mention the fact that when in animal form you cannot use special moves or even toss a bola. So whats the problem?
Yeah because it takes so long to go in and out of animal form *rolls eyes*
Animal form has created so many imbalances in PvP.
Before it was added, being a stealth char actually required skill. Now every noob plays a stealther since they can simply run away at mounted speed.
Also, The down side of having all 5 control slots taken up by overpowered pets was suppose to be that you had to walk. Thanks to animal form you can now have control of the strongest pet(s) in the game and still move at mounted speed.
Just look at the times required to mount
pet summoning ball 5 secs
ethy mount 3 secs
animal form 0 secs
Animal form is not insta-cast. It does actually have to cast before you go into the form. Granted it might not be 3 seconds, but it's certainly longer than 0.
Sorry, you're right.
It takes like .1 second from the time I push the button before I'm running at mounted speed.
I think they had made the change to pet balls so that you cannot summon a pet while in animal form to see if that was enough to settle possible imbalances in being able to be in animal form plus have 5 slots worth of pets out of the stable. They may be considering that the skill point investment required to be able to assume animal form, presuming no-use of the pet ball, may balance the deal well enough.
Remember kiddies, you can knock people out of animal form too...Other than animal form, what does Ninjitsu offer really? I got 120 ninja and I dont think im using it to the best of my stealthers ability.
Animal form requires at least 105 skill points to never fail LLama,
and if you want fast animal form it also requires faster casting and recovery to be a real pain.
Again, here is an example of someone crying because they don't want to alter their template to fight someone else.
If you don't like their pet, get a disco peacing archer... you'll kill it real quick.
I've smacked Ninja's who are in Wolf Form with Riding Swipes, Dismounts, Bolas, even used Ward Removal Talismans on them. None of it has popped them out of Wolf Form.
If it doesn't work, then it's a bug.
As I recall, it was changed with the big PvP fix, that hit bushido and ninjitsu hard.
Bolas are a problem. Players throw them and then jump into animal form to chase someone down. Or they activate a bola, go into animal form, then drop out when close enough and target, then get back into animal form to keep up.
But you can not interrupt the casting. The only way to prevent someone from going into animal form is to paralyze them. If they have resist or a trap box then it is impossible.
Animal Form should require you to stand still when casting and be interrupt-able.
I believe ninja is 4/6 casting, with high casting things like mirror imagine and animal form take almost no time at all. The problem isnt animal form, its the ******** super dragons. Get tamers out of fel!!!
Uh.. What game are you playing? It is impossible to activate a bola, go into animal form, catch up, go back into human form, THEN target with that same bola. That was changed quite some time ago.
Ok, I checked and it seems they fixed both issues with bolas.
The taming "imbalance" does not lie with animal form. The problem is the incredibly overpowered dragon and also the extreme casting ability of that pet, as well as other spell-casting pets.
Ninjitsu spells and animal form have been siginificantly nerfed already. It's high time the dev team takes another look at the taming aspect of that combination of skills, which are described above.
...and you have a timer before going into animal form after using a bola.
winge winge whine whine
nerf nerf this ..nerf nerf that...
make a bloody ninja if u dont like it¬¬¬¬
It's quite laughable how people are defending this overpowered template.
I think that, rather than defending the "overpowered template", people are opposing the change of a mechanic that, if changed, will affect more than just the template in question.
Is casting the mage spell the same as animal form? Mage spell gives you choice of animals to be.
what negative impact would it be to a ninja if animal form took 1 control slot?
I honestly think they hit the skill with the nerf stick in all the wrong ways...
I also think they never addressed stealth...
you can stealth INSTANTLY after hiding... you can use 2 skills with absolutely no delay.
Currently, I can't reveal anyone with the magery spell... and detect hidden has a 10 second delay...
so I find someone hidden... detect them with the skill and they instantly re-hide... and then instantly begin stealthing away.
If someones stealthing... there should be the skill day from the moment they activate the skill until stealthing is over... so if I reveal them with detect, they cannot rehide the second I do so.
Also, if someone hides... there should be the hiding delay between when they hid... and when they can use any other skill (including stealthing.)
Also on that Also... if I invest 100 skill points into detect hidden and the 90.1 it takes to never fizzle the spell reveal... I should be able to use the spell on somone who has hiding and stealth... period.
Because it is a form of yourself. No control slot needed for yourself.
Worst argument ever, people like you are why the games over run with dumb and cheap templates
Actually, that is a good argument. That skill is out there for everyone to use. If you don't like it make a ninja.
No it is and always has been a stupid arguement.
It's the arguement people use when they don't want to lose their unbalanced advantage.
That's the negative impact it would have on the skill?
You mean tamers with super dragons wouldn't be able to run away at mount speeds once their pet dies... that's the only disadvantage, I can surmise.
Possibly, but it isn't the Ninjitsu skill that makes that template overpowered and we all know it. It's the super dragons and the extremely insane casting ability of all magic casting pets. You can nerf Ninjitsu all you like and the tamer, even without hiding and stealth, is still going to be overpowered. Thats exactly why your guildmate Shakaja was playing a tamer. He freely admitted that, even without Ninjitsu, Hiding or Stealth.
I get the feeling that some people who die to a tamer's superdragon feels like it should have never happened.
Another thing is that some of them don't understand (and some of them don't care) that the fire breath is a delayed damage attack, like explosion, and yes even if you run a screen and a half away or around a building, it will still hit you if it got fired at the right time. If you pay attention to the superdragon, you will see when it does this attack, and you often do have time to get a heal off before it hits. That fire breath attack will only kill you if you've already taken damage.
Yes a tamer can kill you now and then, but people also kill the tamer about the same number of times, unless they are being careless. The way that works out seems fine.
A tamer who has taken on ninja is missing something else in the template. Something big. Maybe it's a mage tamer who can never help his dragon kill you with his spells due to no eval. Or maybe it's an archer ninja tamer who can not bandie heal his pet through a fight with another superdragon.
I don't honestly know if animal form mixed in with a superdragon is overpowered. But I can say that the trend has been to complain every time someone dies to a superdragon. Yes a tamer can kill you now and then, and yes you have to watch your ass if you want to try and kill a tamer who has a superdragon. Big deal, other templates when used properly are just as dangerous with all things considered. At least the tamer with the superdragon can't chase you at mounted speed casting evil omen - para.
It's not a tamer's job to lie down and die upon sight of a DP fencer or a necromage, regardless of the fact that a tamer's offense isn't 100% managed by the tamer personally. The fact that the offense isn't completely controlled can make things less safe for the tamer - if the tamer could suddenly switch places and choose just how his pets pursued you, they would get more kills and die less often, but that's not how it works.
The tamer on foot with a superdragon has sacrificed his mobility for high power in the offense. When he takes ninja form, he can run and run but his offensive power is somewhere back in the woods, unable to be pet balled until he switches form.
It just doesn't sound that bad, but I haven't seen enough ninja tamers with superdragons around to have the best sense on it.
So you're complaining that stealthing ninja tamers with greater dragons are bola'ing you while running stealthed at mount speed?
Holy frogs is there any template more specialized than that?
Firstly, you're talking about 240 points for the dragon, another 350ish for the stealth-mountspeed ninja'ing.
Without ever having faced one, I can tell you where the weak link in this template is.
The day this game is "balanced" the way so many people want it will be the day the last player cancels his/her account. You want clear-cut moves and boundaries, black and white, play chess. You want god-mode, play Doom or Half-Life. Or just accept that there will always be imbalances (perceived or genuine) in UO, and that someday, somewhere, someone with a different template to yours is gonna whoop your ass. Hegemony's a pancake, but that's just the way it is.
As can anyone, who aren't half these stratics noobs.
UO is a skill based game, about customization.
If you can't see the weakness in their template you're a fool.
On a side note, I'd imagine any DECENT ninja pvp tamer would look like this
maybe some weaving on xtra points for pet res with gift of life.
4 6 casting obviously....
Okay so you want to kill this bugger?
Have your guild dump heavy when he goes to bola, OR omen paralyze his pet newbs.
Or, get a disco peace archer with a horse lord (double strike) to kill it.
Or a dozen other ways to kill a friggin dragon, they aren't that hard to kill.
Quit crying, if the person loses his pet he obviously has absolutely no offense... he needs to be able to get away.
Again, people crying and not wanting to adapt.
No matter how hard you nerf skills, people will still be able to combine a set of skills that will annoy you, or be hard for you to 1 v 1.
Get over it, that is UO and this is why skill based games are fun, at least we don't have levels like in WoW... (Which sucks)
I would also agree, that this would make sense to use a control slot for animal forms, which are able to move at running speed.
Or as another cure - give those forms the resists and abilities of the formed animal, since it makes no sense, that an animal still wears a human armor or can use a weapon besides its hands ...
A control slot for Animal Form makes absoloutely no sense in any way.
There is no taming/ninja imbalance that got solved with the pet ball delay The only imbalance in pvp in regards to tamers is that pets ignore pretty much everything that other templates have had balanced - casting while moving, casting and specials at same time, damage caps, specials landing even when they miss
This, I agree with.
I'd like to see NPCs obeying the same mechanics as player (with better AI scripts, obviously).
ok then lets nerf somthing that seems to work... hmm ok now why dont we nerf mages so that spells don't always hit!!! if any class needs a fix its mages they are by far the dominant pvp builds i have a friend who rips ppl to shreds with his dexer yet the only thing that gives him pause is a freeking mage and the fact that they always hit with spells.. oh ninja tamer to strong i dont think its strong enough. if you dont like the imbalanced ninja make one naa make a mage!! they will kill any class and only have troubble when your fighting another mage!! dont come makeing posts about the poor ninja's who only have one usefull ability animal form... and ok smoke bombs are handy.. (hopes the fix to shadow jump works) would love to be jumpin around.. and if a dragon chases you down break its agro use invis... oh it interupts me... well cast protection b4 you do the cowardly deed of goin invis. Look here the ninja is fine and needs a bit more help to be good again atm it sux for the ppl who want to play a pure ninja so tamer ninja stelther works nice well about time they had somthing cool to do!! FIX MAGES give us somthing that will mess with them i dont know make some jinda true reflect magic spell stuff or make spells cast against you get reduced in power = to a formula beyond resistance mabe resist spells should give at 100 a 10% chance to avoid that flame strike that would not happen to much and would make spells still strong but might give the poor dexers a chance now and then to deal with a mage!!