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Apparently Ultima Online is a dead game yet...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Wing Zero Straight Edge, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. Lore

    Lore Lore Keeper

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    More hyperbole... blah blah blah. I'm sure Blizzard didn't speculate on the profitability of a classic server before venturing into it. That's totally what businesses do.
     
  2. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Crazed Zealot
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    o_O

    You clearly do not know what the words hyperbole or speculate mean.

    Also, if you think Blizzard didn't run all sorts of projections on how a classic shard would fare in regards to profit/loss over time you are delusional. Profitable business don't throw money at things just because customers ask for it, they throw money at things they speculate will turn them a tidy profit.
     
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  3. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    Ask anyone on Europa how i fair on the field. You want videos?
     
  4. Stussywear

    Stussywear Seasoned Veteran
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    Im asking you to show me your god suit with 1 legendary. Like you said you had. Proof please.
     
  5. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    proof?
    forgot to mention, max HPR and very high MR:
    obs (121)
     
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  6. Stussywear

    Stussywear Seasoned Veteran
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    That's not a godly suit. That's not even close to the suits I'm talking about. You have very few maxed out properties. Im not saying the suit is garbage, but you're overstating what you have compared to the max property suits i was talking about.
     
  7. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    :beer: Quote of the day!!

    Mesanna could get a raise if those hundreds came to UO! :cheerleader:
     
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  8. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    How dare you kill players in a crap suit!

     
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  9. Wing Zero Straight Edge

    Wing Zero Straight Edge Seasoned Veteran

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    Well this has escalated from a post that was meant to be positive.

    But okay....!
     
  10. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Stratics Forum Moderator
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    The thread has been cleaned up, and a few posts have been removed. Please do not use personal attacks against other posters going forward. Thanks.
     
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  11. Lore

    Lore Lore Keeper

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    My sarcasm didn't come through and you argued with it anyways. By doing so you're arguing with your own points, which I find funny. I tried to say so in less words and with less effort, but apparently that's a personal attack. I just find it funny that in the process of two posts you've argued with yourself.
     
  12. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Crazed Zealot
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    Hate to break it to you, but what I said doesn't support your claim. Context is key. Yes, Blizzard has millions of dollars to play with, regardless of the ultimate outcome, but the chances they made decision in the absence of positive WoW metrics and market research is less than zero. It's just less of a big deal if they get it wrong, they'll still have millions of dollars left to play with.


    Blizzard/Daybreak/Jagex went down the classic shard path because the math indicated they'd make money - regardless of vocal customer desire. The same won't necessarily hold true for other games. UO has had less than a fourth of the least of those game's peak numbers.
     
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  13. Lore

    Lore Lore Keeper

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    Seems like to me you just like to argue. I could say your same point and you argue with it. Yes, they can be more liberal with risks, I see your point and I'm not ignoring it. I just disagree on how much of a risk it'd be for UO. This is where I use the word hyperbole. You're using arguments that aren't meant to be taken seriously. You aren't backing anything up with any sort of solid fact. When I point out that other games and developers are making money off of it you're response is just to say UO can't for various unbased reasons.
     
  14. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    UO should implement 3 month seasonal game play . Everyone starts fresh and the economy would practically be 100% balanced. Maybe at the end of three months, allow 1 week for everyone to transfer their character off if they want. If not, it gets deleted before the next season begins.

    Turn on all special drops like treasures of Tokuno to encourage farming across all the lands.

    Season would be fun and spice things up.
     
  15. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Crazed Zealot
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    You're calling it hyperbole because you can't refute the points. You don't want to accept obvious truths because they cut against your worldview and agenda.

    UO isn't flush with the cash it should be, nor are nascent developers clamoring to work at Broadsword on 20yo, undocumented spaghetti code. They've been unsuccessfully advertising for a second engineer since 2014, and they haven't managed to snag an intern since well before that (unless they hid them, which, admittedly, is possible).

    I have yet to say that UO couldn't make money off a classic shard, I just find the notion highly dubious given the playerbase. The return has to be significantly higher than the investment made. I don't believe that free sharders would flock back to subscription UO from their highly tweaked preferred free shards...just because a classic shard was introduced. While EJ will probably lure some back, I'm doubting the ability to keep them, let alone satisfy as you know they'll want a house. Money would have to be infused/reinvested into the game by EA for a classic shard to happen. EA's well-known history shows that is improbable at best and asking for a Sword of Damocles at worst (ie failure = cancellation).

    The path the classic sharders, and PvPers in general, should be on is to ensure that PvP/VvV is as robust and dynamic as it can be without needing the carrots lure sheep to Fel. This means holding the devs feet to the fire and keeping them accountable for their (in)actions. It also means you make them keep their balance changes strictly to actual PvP, instead of negligently letting them spill over into PvE and thus being bemoaned as nerfs. (You should also be loudly demanding an active PvP focus group that isn't full of ex-Stratics mods like the last one curiously was o_O)

    If UO becomes truly profitable, who knows what projects Mesanna might be authorized to undertake. However, under the known, factual limits of today's reality, a classic shard isn't in the cards. That isn't speculation, its what the devs have said. Repeatedly.

    UO is taking a rick, right now, with EJ. It could either be a spectacular success, a middling success, or a sub-vamping slide into unprofitability.
     
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  16. Wing Zero Straight Edge

    Wing Zero Straight Edge Seasoned Veteran

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    Oh my god thank you!
     
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  17. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Stratics Forum Moderator
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    I just want to clarify on this, none of your posts were personal attacks. The only thing you wrote that was removed was not your fault, it was the post you quoted in it that I needed to remove.
     
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  18. Lore

    Lore Lore Keeper

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    Thank you, sorry you had to reply to that. I'm done with my argument anyways. We're not getting anywhere with each other.
     
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  19. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    Apologies for the 2 conversations going on in this thread, on this particular suit i have gone for RPD, but you could replace it with Casting Focus or kinetic and fire eater, what actual other mods are there you can add that will make any actual difference?
    Some templates like a bokuto mage you need lots or legendaries for, but what i am saying is there are templates and suits that will compete with the best of them on a budget.
     
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  20. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Grand Inquisitor

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    That made me laugh and there's truth in it. But some of the questions are nuts lol
     
  21. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Grand Inquisitor

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    It turns into a how easy it is to PvP thing when the real "problem" is just about everyone isn't interested in it lol If it were any other feature with the same amount of support you'd have to dig back 5 years to find any info on it ;)
     
  22. North_LS

    North_LS Journeyman

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    looking around at the gear available now, theres certainly some heavy equipment around. it seems a lot more accessible than it once was though, with a bit of balance thrown in. It's not exactly easy to put together a top tier suit starting from scratch, but its not really difficult to get together something that has max resists and some decent properties without too much effort or time either.

    just after AoS was released, there were those few rich players running around with 4/6 casting speed mages and suits they burned countless barbed runics on to get those handful of lucky pieces - try and compete with that when loot item drops are nearly all unusable and the properties you get on crafted gear are all randomized. Seems like now, some time farming drops and a decent mule can get you set up pretty well even if you arent sitting on billions.

    i really do miss the fun of grabbing a gm leather suit and 50 of each reg or a tribal spear to go pvp with people who had the same thing, but i enjoy the other things all the items and new skills have opened up too. in a lot of ways, i feel like im coming back to an entirely new game, in others it feels like coming back home again.
     
  23. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Certifiable
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    Whilst I appreciate that your initial post was meant as positive, posting something like that, where there was no real correlation between youtube views and the health of the current game (hell I was looking at Star Wars Galaxies youtube vids the other day) was only ever going to highlight the reality of the situation. Which is that UO is not in a very good state at all.
     
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  24. Tabby Kapak

    Tabby Kapak Seasoned Veteran
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    Kinda ironic you first complain others don't want to open their eyes to people liking other playstyles, to continue in the SAME paragraph that nobody really wants to participate since "it's all garbage" (to YOU!) For what it is worth, we wish we had more time to play UO, because there are so many goals to achieve and things to explore! We think it becomes clear from this thread that others don't mind you having a classic shard (and again, what is a classic shard precisely), but NOT AT THE COST of our current game! And with the limited resources UO seems to have, obviously it would, you can spend all time and money only once.

    On another point, when we and others advocate (lesser) power scrolls in Tram, we are always told by the pvp-ers (or rather the PvEasy-kills) that we "can go get them ourselves in Fel". Is it rude to say here now, go get them legendaries yourself! The Roof is free to anyone, good luck! With item insurance in game, you won't have to lose your uber suit ever so you can keep competing at the highest level?
    Question for the vets with a good memory: Did the invulnerability suits exist from the start or were they a later addition. We only have vague memories of those, and only started playing in 2001. Those suits would also have required farming, and made for an uneven playing field?
    Admitted, we do feel some nostalgia to the simple gear ourselves, when not needing Excel sheets to craft a decent suit... When the game felt like less maths and more.. game? But we still enjoy the game greatly as it is.
     
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  25. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    Do you mean properties?

    First the armor had an armor rating. 1 thru 4.

    Then the armor had resists. You could build a suit with hammer or thread. The syuff you found could have magic properties like +10 strength.

    The weapons had names. Silver sword of vanquishing was the popular one in the beginning.

    It just built to more and more.
     
  26. Tabby Kapak

    Tabby Kapak Seasoned Veteran
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    We mean the armor properties like Defense, Guarding, Hardening, Fortification and Invulnerability. According to UO Guide it was indeed the original item property system, so our pondering remains, didn't people need to farm for invulnerability pieces to create an equal playing field like they do now with legendaries?
    We do remember the weapons vividly, paying 25k for our vanquishing silver bow to hunt liches in the Lich Forest!
    And to go on topic for the OP, we do see players in many places we go (on Europa) so we also consider UO far from dead.
     
  27. Lore

    Lore Lore Keeper

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    It didn't "just built" to more and more. Somewhere they added magic properties. Originally it was just exceptional crafted, might/vanquishing/etc, slayers, and crafted material. It was much simpler. Then all at once we have magic properties now. Mondain's Legacy? Worst change ever.
     
  28. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Don't blame Mondains Legacy that idocy began with Age of Shadows. That's when itemization began.
     
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  29. Stussywear

    Stussywear Seasoned Veteran
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    First, i didnt say it's ALL Garbage. If you're going to quote me, do it right. I just said it's garbage just like stratics, which is true. It's only catered to a few people, and the majority get screwed. Notice a trend here?

    Second, are you kidding me? Do you think that Invuln armor created a real unfair advantage? Even Vanq Weapons were not overpowered. They created a slight powershift compared to normal armor and weapons, but there was consequences. Items could be stolen. Items could be looted. And Items could be rivaled completely and easily by skill. Go look at screenshots from 2000-2003. Armor isnt a thing in felucca.

    Last, supporters of the classic server arent even being picky. Sure we all have our IDEAL time we would love to be reverted to, but for the most part, none of us want this crap that is SA. The overpowered items, and completely unfair ability to buy yourself a completely lopsided advantage, is just dumb. It's not fun for players returning. It's DEFINITELY NOT fun for new players that want to try pvp. It's not fun for those who dont have the money, time or resources to farm, or buy elite gear. I dont see what "cost" youre even talking about. Do they do events for the 4 people on each server that play (outside of ATL).

    This week alone, I've logged on during peak hours on the following servers with less than 5 people at luna, and 0 at any locations that I could find in felucca. Lake Superior, Great Lakes, Chessy, Pacific, Origin, Lake Austin, Siege Perilous, Baja, Napa Valley, Legends, and Sonoma . Literally less then 5 people in luna and/or responding on public chat. This game is COSTING itself by not looking at new avenues to get returning players back and/or new players to play the game. It's impossible to imagine the game in the current state successfully rekindling any new subscriptions off this new "f2p" campaign.
     
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  30. Dorset

    Dorset Adventurer
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    I've not logged on to play for some time but still read these boards, great read for an old player back and forth with this discussion.

    In my experience the PVP went out the window when the game became too complicated, trying to keep up/copy with other games of the time. For me, PVP was at its best when it was simple and fun, people didn't mind losing a basic suit or weapons. The old Order/Chaos was great fun, faction early days was even better I have some great memories. That's my opinion anyway, I just lost interest when you had to rebuild a suit every few months and the game became so item dependant, or there was a new template to build/adjust towards. PVP was supposed to be fun & exciting.

    For me when I log in now, it just doesn't feel like the old game I used to enjoy. May be my age or the era I grew up playing UO, just gone too complicated for me. You should not need a spreadsheet to help play a 20+ year old game, just loses all fun for me.

    Not a bashing post, just a view of someone who pays but doesn't play! :pint:
     
  31. Morgana Grim

    Morgana Grim Lore Master
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    This ^^
     
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  32. Lore

    Lore Lore Keeper

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    I dunno... I like that older games take spreadsheets and stuff. It's not perfect, but I like this niche in games too.
     
  33. Dorset

    Dorset Adventurer
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    Yep I totally understand some people enjoy that side. For me my time is limited nowadays, and I play around with paperwork/spreadsheets all day. I really just want to log in and enjoy the game, but that's me probably just chasing the past..
    That's the thing with UO, the older players always chase the era they enjoyed the most. That is the reason why we cant all agree on anything game specific :)
     
    #83 Dorset, Jan 17, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
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  34. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    That era where you could log in grab some cheap gear and go out and have fun.... for hours. But I think that fun was more about the people... back then no one was all hyped up on cost vs reward... that's really what it boils down to these days. How much can be made out of the time spent making it... and how much do you have to invest up front and what that's worth vs what you may/maynot get.

    Kinda like Exodus... making the keys to do Exodus is EXTREMELY expensive... overly so... especially since instead of using some of the ingredients that are far easier to get like muculent or something they want TAINT.... which is nearly impossible to get anyway and since it's used to actually make worthwhile spellbooks... NO ONE wants to use or waste that on making something..... but the time involved in getting keys is also HIGH... and you can't just get one set and take all your friends NO everyone has to have their own bunch of items.... so as long as it took to get yours you have to take that X however many to get a bunch for your friends...
     
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  35. Tabby Kapak

    Tabby Kapak Seasoned Veteran
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    Well, you wrote "because the content is just garbage". So forgive us for reading that as "the content is just garbage". THE content. Not some, the. How are we supposed to read that otherwise?
    No, we don't. If you hate stratics that much, why are you even posting here? You are very welcome to us, different opinions make for interesting discussions, but we strongly feel you exaggerate on the majority. As several posts have mentioned above, why was Fel nearly empty and Trammel full shortly after the creation of the safe world? Because everyone craves pvp? Yeah, sure...
    Hmmm, what cost... did you notice we had a 20th anniversary event with town invasions and such past September? People have to make that content, it doesn't drop from the sky. That takes costs? With such a small team, as so often said before, they cannot spare anyone to recreate a world like it once was. We have read in several places the original code has gone lost during a move, so no, they can't just bring it up. We personally enjoyed that 20th anniv arc very much, and with us many others judging from conversations in game and comments here. (And yes, there were also a lot of complaints here. We don't forget that.) Towns were full of people, more than 4 for sure!
    Funny, yesterday we were on Europa at around 4pm, not exactly a peak hour, and we had a conversation with some 7 people, in HELP chat even! We keep bumping into people whether we go to the Fan Dancer Dojo, the Stygian Abyss, Blighted Grove, Despise, Twisted Weald, so no, we TOTALLY cannot relate to these exaggerations of UO is dead!
    Even in the past few months, we have seen and heard about many returnees and new players, given the right amount of help and guidance, many will stay. And no, with help, we don't mean giving them an uber-suit. But give mages an LRC suit, dexxers all resists, things like that give them the opportunity to play and improve for themselves. Every returnee/new player we bumped into ourselves was very enthusiastic and their enthusiasm rekindles ours to somewhat like we felt at the start. We know from posts on Stratics that Mervyn also was trying to teach new people to PvP, and he is the one who said you don't need a (multi-)plat suit to compete in there.
    We certainly believe a lot of people will be enthousiastic about a classic shard, as is proven by the posts in here. We wish you all could have one. Might even improve the chances of not getting raided at Champs heh. :)
     
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  36. Stussywear

    Stussywear Seasoned Veteran
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    You contradict your own statement. You can read it one of 2 ways. You took it upon yourself to assume I meant one way, so forgive me for assuming if something was unclear the almighty judge would ask for specification. Since you want to go there with everything I say.

    It wasnt nearly empty as you put it. It was completely full. You just wouldn't know because YOU werent there, and you seen a LOT of people checking out the new content of Trammel. I KNOW for a fact that on Pacific, Baja and Great Lakes there was more then definitely NO shortage of players in felucca enjoying PVP.

    I think you overestimate how much actual effort goes into an event. The majority of them are done by EM's who last time i knew werent even paid, they are volunteers. Sure content is made by the designers, but lets not kid ourselves, they arent adding real new content for most events, it's mostly just using whats already created and putting it together. It's not some huge project that takes months to plan.

    Well, as I stated, I never checked Europa.. I checked North American Servers. Just as I didnt check the Asian servers. But hey, by all means.. 7 people? Let me buy some of that UO STOCK ITS THRIVING BOYS!

    I wish this was correct. Ive yet to run into any new players, or hardly any players at all on the majority of servers I have characters. The problem is, a new player doesnt know what servers mean. They just choose one. Chances of them landing on a dead server with less than a handful of active players, most likely. If I logged on Napa Valley, started a new character.. didnt see another player the entire time i played.. IN A MMORPG.. i'd be leaving pretty quickly and trying a new game. It's just the unfortunate of the state of the game. Im glad you love it, but that doesnt mean we all have to.
     
  37. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    LS is busy 24 hours. I dont know what time you logged on but there is a least 4 of us who are parked in Luna all the time. Go to chat if you want to see who is on. You have to ask a question. If you say something about a dead shard or anything negative, we wont respond. PvP nightly 6 to 9 pm central. They are not at Yew Gate. They are at a spawn.

    Go visit the Cu Ranch we make daily.

    We dont respond to angry negative people. I you bring an attitude, dont stay long. If you want to have fun, someone will help you.
     
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  38. Stussywear

    Stussywear Seasoned Veteran
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    Every time on on LS its dead. And even if there were 4 people, that's supposed to be busy? Are you joking right now?
     
  39. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    Its been busy for 5 hours today. They did their pvp. Like I said we are better off without your attitude. Count us as dead if that means you stay away. Thanks
     
  40. Stussywear

    Stussywear Seasoned Veteran
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    How is my attitude any worse then the 4 of you jumping every thread im in telling me how everything I say is either wrong or impossible? Your definition of active is simply inaccurate, not my fault you cant handle hearing that.
     
    #90 Stussywear, Jan 17, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
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  41. Stussywear

    Stussywear Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    By the way, is that the name you go by on LS? Ill be sure to find you soon since youre so active.
     
  42. Lore

    Lore Lore Keeper

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    You're right, Pawain is wrong. The whole thing is so subjective and people have gotten used to so little in some places. Pawain, you're being too sensitive to criticism and that also makes you look no fun to play with. You guys aren't doing favors for making your shards look hospitable when you can't take a criticism that isn't even wrong.
     
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  43. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
    Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    Im only on about 8 hours a day. You may have trouble finding me. But I have been at this spot for 5 hours so far.

    upload_2018-1-17_21-16-31.png

    You can say Pawain in chat. Or call for Allen. Im due some afk time soon, but ill put in 3 more hours today.

    LS is doing fine. I can show you 10 people playing at any time of day. You have to know where we play. There's plenty on LS that I don't know or interact with. Sorry but Stussy did not look for anyone on LS or he would have found them.
     
  44. ShriNayne

    ShriNayne Lore Master

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    I don't think it's so much the number of people as how they come together. Europa is listed as low population, but it's not empty or dead and we get new and returning players coming to the bank meet almost every day. We saw at Christmas with the Tree event how many small shards with low population managed to do an awful lot of work! A good community is more than just having a lot of people. I personally wouldn't swap Europa for any other shard, As for 'classic' shard, whatever that means, it might be popular for a while but then it will probably end up like most of the other very low population shards. People will never agree on what 'classic' means.
     
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  45. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    *GASP*.

    10 players?? I bet you can’t get moved on LS! The congestion must be horrendous.

    Talk about putting the Massive in MMO! /end sarcasm

    10 concurrent players = a dead shard
     
  46. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
    Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    I see you are having reading comprehension problems this morning.

    I said I could show you 10 players. There's plenty more that I cant find or even know they exist other than I hear them in chat or see them run by the stable. There are a lot of players who talk in chat and guild chat that I don't know or have never seen.

    LS has people doing spawns, PvPing, doing the roof, training pets, taming pets, Crafting, resource gathering, and more things every day.

    I'm logged on for at least 8 hours a day. How long do you play to know what shards are busy?
     
  47. Lore

    Lore Lore Keeper

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    Contrary to others opinions, I'd never write off the possibility of an alternate ruleset. I think the fallacy with the article you've linked is they are only open to one other ruleset. You can test the waters and then release more than one patch cycle. You don't have to limit it to one or support them. Just release the patch as it was.
     
  48. Stussywear

    Stussywear Seasoned Veteran
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    I can assure you nobody is PVPing or spawning.. Atleast not during any peak hours. I've checked for almost a week straight. You're just babbling nonsense to make you sound correct. In reality i think your 10 players is pretty accurate of total players and 4 of them are afk at luna bank 24/7.

    Edited to fix large run-on sentence.
     
  49. Stussywear

    Stussywear Seasoned Veteran
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    Hope springs eternal. This would do it, I'm sure of it. I am so confident players would return for this.
     
  50. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Grand Inquisitor

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    They did that. SP
     
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