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Discussion in 'UHall' started by Atlantian, May 30, 2008.
Why does it seem that mages are always complaining about archers? Would like some input here people.
Probably because they are both ranged chars, but the archer can do 10 times as much damage as the mage in half the time.
Because archers kill them. Mages want to have a force field around them where no one can touch them. This has been going on for years. They complained about ninja/archers until the devs nerfed them into worthless. They complained about thieves until the devs completely crushed the thieves.
Now they are complaining about tamers, vampire form, (this is the pitiful one)bolas. A mage is afraid of a ball on a string. what next? Want to remove the rats from the game?
But I never hear them complain about the exploits they use to cast a million spells a second, chug potions 2 at a time for unlimited times, dismount their ethy and remount it in a second while running, and the speed hacks.
lol good point there. I know a mage that is always bragging about doing 250 to 300 damage. Personally I think it's bs. Mages are the ones that are overpowered.
Those are all exploits or 3rd party programs you're referring to.
Just as many dexxers are using them as mages, so I don't see why you even brought it up.
Are they doing that in 1.5 seconds like an archer? I don't think so.
Now I see the real point of your thread.
It wouldn't surpise me. We chased a mage the other night and we hit him with a bola and he took off running and got on his ethy without missing a step. He ran into town and would teleport over fences, on the bank, over fences again and then over a stream nearby and not once paused while doing it. He would heal faster than any of us could heal and drink potion after potion none stop. We finally killed him but what we wittnessed was not that of a player playing by the rules.
I still see many ninja archers who do just fine, mine included.
Everyone (except for the thieves) was complaining about the damn thieves.
It you read the threads most of the people complaining about tamers are dexxers and most people who pvp think the greater dragons are a joke and in serious need of a nerf.
I won't even get into the vampric embrace since there's a whole other thread discussing that.
A bola effects a dexxer a lot more than a mage since a mage can just teleport away or invis and remount. I think I've seen people playing mages, dexxers and archers complaining about bolas and saying they should be removed or at least require some skill to use (usually tactics is mentioned)
What's the real point? Archers don't have mana regen and can't cast over and over and over and over and mages hit over and over and......well you should get it by now. Mages are constantly whineing abouts archers. Get over it.
So we remove bolas, greater dragons, archers, thieves, necro, bushido, tamers, ninjas, animal form and what do we have left? Dexxers and mages. Now who are the ones whining?
Maybe I can go over to fel with my tailor and let yall kill him so yall can feel good about yourselves instead of having to actually use skills and strategy to kill me. What fun is it to kill someone without having to adapt and overcome different situations? I bet I can find a couple of mages that can take out any tamer with any greater dragon.
lol good point
Mages have a lot of advantages, and if people who use them can't figure that out, it's their problem.
Archery does one thing and one thing only...fires bows. It SHOULD be better at damage than a skill that does all kinds of things.
A mage with a slayer book, inscription and eval can tear up things just like an archer can.
This thread = biased mage bashing.
All of the comments about speedhacks, pots, bolas etc are all completely riddiculous as they are not remotely anything to do with mages, neither is how long it takes to mount an ethy. Dexxers, archers and tamers can do all of those just as much.
"Archers don't have mana regen and can't cast over and over and over and over "
Yes they do. Not that they need them when there are bugs that allow archers to shoot with 0 arrows and use specials with 0 mana cost.
Why the hell did I waste two seconds of my life reading this crap? Archers don't have mana regen? WTF? Mages hit over and over? WTF?
Ok firstly, getting a suit with all 70s, mana regen AND LRC. Is alot harder than gettin a suit with just 70s and mana regen. Mages hit over and over do they? Oh so you can distrupt an archer can you? Oh... you can't? But you can disrupt a mage.
This whole thread is complete bull. I'm actually angry at myself for wasting my time and replying.
Atlantian, you've wasted approx 2mins of my life and I want it back, see you in court!
I don't feel guilty for wasting your time. As far as archers firing arrows when we are empty. That has never happened in my world. And yes.. mages do hit over and over. As for your 2 minutes... go back to your basement it will be back to you when your playstation loads up.
Something tells me none of these guys have ever played a pvp mage.
Next to a necro mage, a regular mage is probably the most macro intensive template in this game requiring the most skill to play.
Any noob can play an archer or a tamer.
Spoken like a true mage! Mages are the biggest whiners in the game! You are always griping about how archers and tamers kick your butts! Take your macros and stuff them! Wussies!
Any noob can play a mage.. Just hit a few macro buttons
You made this thread moaning about mages. There are no threads by mages moaning about archers.
Doesn't sound like it, sounds like you want to just pancake and moan about mages for no reason.
lol @ this thread...
Take it anyway you want. Archers are still the better.
And yes there are plenty of threads by mages moaning about archers.
I have both an archer and a mage. Both are fine. Neither is overpowered against the other.
If there are unbalanced, overpowering tactics, hacks, cheats, etc, then deal with them. But be careful not to nerf "archers" or "mages" or any class, as a whole.
Mages can't stand up to an archer. Your lrc and mana regen won't do you any good.
For the last 6 monthes a specific exploit has allowed archers and dexers to do up to 15 AI's in a row in both PvP and PvM, another allows archers to use specials not even designed for thier weapons. Those two alone in PvP or PvM are alot to complain about.
The bug about a million spells at once? I call this timing sir. I can cast Exp., fireball, harm, and hit you with a wep that has dbl hit spell. Thats 6 numbers you will see above your head, and has nothing to do with a bug. Two pots at once? PFFT! The ethy issue? Cmon now Packrat, lets think creative! That sir is an unintended feature!
I do agree about the speedhacks but thats it. Those are horrid.
Btw...I play a straightmage, and do not complain about my template. If my rear side gets a-handed-to-me, so be it.
To the OP, there are some pretty nasty reasons to still be upset about archers, for now though I recommend wrestle. A simple disarm will make any archer run for the hills.
What no one has a mage, dexxer, tamer, archer on their account?
The hell is wrong with everyone can't be that many noobs left?
Ppl complain when they see some thing that rocks but they themselfs are unable to do.
Is this game so hard?
what archer does 300 points every 1.5 btw
My dexer on DF maybey does about 190-325 per hit every 1.25 sec, has the highst damage sword wep with the highst DI and his DI is capped and this is running on perfection with EOO, my archer does nowhere near as much as him.
Its funny mages have thin skin but can do great things.
btw my mage is a necro/mage/sw/stealther running 820 points and if an archer kills me its cause I screwed up.
Hmm that bieng said ever time I die(and I do that alot) its my fault unless I crash or server goes down.
Cause there's always complaining somebody about something. What people do forget: Each templates have its advantages and disadvantages. I personally know a necro mage who killed most other melee fighters in a tournament. I know a mage who was so tactically skilled he could fend off 3 melee attackers just by cunningly casting poison and paralyze field, and then fry the buggers. Spellweavers have the possibility to be resistant to melee and archery attacks with Attunement spell for 15-20 seconds, they have the possibilty to auto-heal for a limited amount of time etc. Other mage templates have different advantages (especially Necromancy!).
I think a mage can compete with an archer if he knows what he's doing and if he is trained. Mages also have advantages in PvM, more advantages than archers (at least in most situations; I'll exclude the Vanguard Invasion here).
So, there's no real reason for a mage to complain, except if he lacks of knowledge or exercise.
Someone even complained about the sky in KR once, and we all know the result. *cries*
My biggest complain is the smell, 10 years of pseudo intelligent avatars running around with poopy drawers is never a good thing!
Oh btw sorry...
Sir, please read my statement on why mages complaints are indeed valid. On the surface most including myself have no complaints. However, under it there are many bugs that need to be adressed and fixed.
Hahaha anyway kinda off topic as well
my one complaint
Loincolths have flaps or cloth that hang over the rope used to tie them.
Can we pls have some better 2d loincloths, the ones we have look alot like diapers.
Turn in reward idea: Boxers with differnet patterens
I have noticed a few posters cry foul more than some but I wont flame them, they know who they are.
"Archers are still the better"
a) I haven't commented on 'whos better' because as I already said your entire thread is stupid. I have all characters and so can everyone else.
b) So if Archers are better (your words not mine) why do you feel the need to make a pointless double whopper with cheese talk thread?
"Mages can't stand up to an archer. Your lrc and mana regen won't do you any good."
a) Oh noes!
b) You're an idiot.
c) Read b) again until it becomes obvious why.
Can someone please help.I am very new to UO and i would like to build an Archer/Mage but cannot find any info on what skill set i should have Any and all help would be appreciated. Thank you
Then I would like to see that bug! Every time I run out of arrows...there are no more shots! But mages and your "mana regen" keep going like the engizer bunny! You seem to never run out! Mages are the biggest whiners in the game!! "I did 250 hit points and then an archer hit a couple of times and I got nothing" Mages are whiners! BOO HOO
Not all mages but I think many mages have a problem with anything that can threaten them. They think their class takes the most skill, that they're the most skilled players in the game, and if another template can actually beat them, there's something wrong. I remember a time when archery was so bad I knew mages who claimed to have never died to an archer. As archery got better, more and more mages complained since some archers might actually kill them. That's not to say there haven't been times when certain aspects of archery haven't been imbalanced, but I think the reason many mages complain about anything is because they don't feel anything but another mage should be able to beat them.
Ignorance is biliss. An archer firing off 10 AIs in rapid succession is not possible according to special move cost and penalty. Yet if you look you will see it happen day after day after day, just as it has been happening for over six monthes. Just because you havent seen it doesnt mean it doesnt exist, nor does it make those complaining about it whiners.
To put this into perspective think about a mage with 9/5 on the run casting and 80% LMC. That would be about the equivalent to the current archery specials bug.
If you really want to see this in action might I suggest you watch a certain fel crashing guild on atlantic when they are on thier archers. (cant say names obviously...but i will fill you in with who if PMed.)
Mages are the Harry Potters of UO?
Archers are the Orlando Blooms of UO?
You put the two together and you know there will be hard feelings.
Seriously though, you need to be tough to play UO. It is a tough gamestyle. Now, name me a tough mage. In history there has never been a tough mage. They are all Nerdlington's. Merlin? Got locked under a rock by an apprentice mage. Harry Potter? Wimpy nerd. Gandalf? Gandalf's cool but he didn't really do much. Mages are wimps. Always have been always will be. They are good for on-the-spot flashlights and pulling rabbits out of hats.
In UO, mages were good in the first year. In fact, to me, they were the endgame of UO, but somewhere between then and now, the development team woke up and realized mages are nerds and should never run a fantasy world. In life, mages are rarely lead characters and they should remain in a supporting role.
That was so funny! Can't wait to read the replies...
Possible, but won't do either as well as someone dedicated to just one style. Doesn't mean you can't do well with it, just have to think outside the box.
To do enough damage to make it worth having, you need either tactics or anatomy with archery...ideally both. To increase damage with magery you'd need eval int and, for PVM, inscription.
Archery, Tactics, Magery, Eval, Resist, Focus....then maybe spellweaving or chivalry.
You'd need good faster cast/cast recovery and spell channeling bows to rely on magery for healing, but it can be done.
Not sure how well that would work...however, combining magery and focus lets you use the crystalline ring and that gives you 40 extra skill to play with, so that helps.
you really want to go in on how diffucult it is to be just a good (notice the word good not great) tamer? Do you know how long it takes to even gm the skill? not like swordsmanship where it can be done in 4 or five days, takes a while to gm taming.
And as for the rest of you who think the greaters are needing of a nerf, make a tamer-tame your own-. I challenge anyone who thinks tamers are a joke temp to try to be one. Show me what youve got
(and yes i do pvp so i dont want to hear people calling me a trammie, cause i know you will)
Ya know....its threads like these that keep me on my home thread of Siege Perilous.
Atlantean...Dude seriously? WTF? One minute you say mages are overpowered, then you say archers are better? Please tell me your a intelligent human being who is simply presenting very one sided opinions in hopes of luring someone like me into thinking there about actually people like that in the world.
Really, have you guys ever pvped? This thread is now about bugs and hacks, none of which have to do with any template.
If you wanna talk basics, yes archers are good at hitting for some damage and good at finishing off people via moving shot or dismount.
Mages can dish out some damage, but against any decent non mage template it is going to be limited.(Ever tried flamestriking that bokker without having parry?) Mages true strength come from their synergy, or their ability to do better with other mages(I.E. cross heals, group cure, walls, combos) I play a heavy hitting "chase" archer temp and a parry mage. I have always loved mages, then only serious thing I dislike ( mind you I said dislike , not saying its not fair) is that mages have a hard time finishing off people, once a mage has you so low, you simply run away while drinking potions, and theres not many mage temps that can really do anything but caste a flamestrike and follow after you and even then its unlikely they are going to drop you.
In closing, the way some of you speak about game mechanics and templates makes me wonder if you have ever set foot in a pvp area, if you have not and would like to learn the ropes and play with some of the best I suggest you hit up the shard forums and check out Siege Perilous and give it a try, you might just like a shard where you don't need millions of gold to compete, that way you could spend less time in doom, typing in these forums while your bored, and more time actually learning to pvp.
Enjoy, Cash of Siege Perilous
On this I won't argue skill vs skill, I will say that I hate tamers for the fact that almost no one has a shot against a pet 1v1, let alone with a player behind it assisting it.
Coupled with the fact that most throw bolas or roll with heavy crossbows, make it seemingly a very simple template to run.
I won't argue how much skill it take because there will always be an argument, but I will say my wife began playing UO this year and took over my tamer account and was out in the field throwing bolos and "all killing" shortly after learning how to move her character. I only needed to teach her basic moving and what not, then how to pull bars, use a bola and hit her f1 key and target that same player, she did really well.
In closing, Greater dragons most certainly do need a huge nerf in pvp, actually tamers in generally need a huge nerf in pvp. I personally believe pets shouldn't be allowed to target players except in "siege like" atmostpheres such as faction bases and spawns because they have little purpose on the field, theres no fighting a pet, there is only trying to kill the tamer before the pet gets you and that is not PVP, there is no exchange of blows from player to player, yes there may be a slight test of wit but there is no test of skill between players once the "all kill" has hit only a test of skills between your monster and that players and that ladies and gentlemen is PVE.
i wont argue with on the pvp fact, i rarely(like maybe once every two months)take my tamer to the pvp hotspots. I also agree that xbow and bola tactics are cheap, especially with the telepoting habits of the greaters. But to make all tamers suffer for the pvp tamers doing? Not very fair is it?
No, not at all, love the tamer in pvm hence why I have one, hate it in pvp
Hence why I said a simple fix, is make them not be able to target players, or for some protection to pvm tamers, make it so you cant "all kill" players only have them guard you and if your attacked they respond, I think that would be an excellent fix.
You would like to see that bug? Does that mean that if you knew how it worked you would be abusing it? I don't suppose you know how to dupe or script doesn't mean their not in the game.
Any template can and does use mana regen.
Mages are the biggest whiners in game you say it over and over but fail to realise that your the only person whining about anything.
250 hit points on what? Where exactly did a mage say this? Oh thats right they didn't. Talk sense or stfu.
Not that it matters, but yes I do have several tamers. Now a days, It takes about 5 minutes to make one. Buy advanced char token and put on 20+ points of taming items. Now I've never done that myself, all 3 of my tamers (including 1 on Siege) were worked from 50 to 110. How long it takes to work a skill doesn't have any place in an end game conversation.
Have done that and still think Greater Dragons need to be changed in PvP.
Any other stupid comments?
wow thats news to me?
Can you Imagine what mages would do if resist worked like it used to!
Kaleb, I like your skills, very similiar to mine, GM med is awesome on an archer huh, you could make him a bit more Powerful IMO.
I run as follows
105 resist jeweled to 120
90 heal(they say you need 90.1 or 91 for no fail but Ive not failed yet)
65 chiv(all you really need to cast DF about 80% of the time)
I use this nifty Bow with 44 fireball, 28 LL, 12 HCI, 40 SSI, and 45 DI
suit is a med suit with over 40 lmc and mr 9 with 83 mana. Paras and mortals FTW!
Oh on a side note, the most damage Ive seen mages do in "one" spell is 60 and thats with a corpse skin, curse and a flamestrike, Archers damage is capped at 35 for AI's and what is it about 55 for concussion at 1.5 secound swings, I think archers and mages if played well are fairly equal
Hey am I the only one here who pvps without UOA. No need for balanced bows here.
Also, for anyone who thinks Mages or archers have an advantage over one another should play an archer mage, now thats fun! Expensive temp to build but fun. No room for resist Unless you sub anat for resist, less damage from the bow but i use repeaters and shorts on him mainly to interupt mage spells
Before my main was a pally archer with med he was an archer mage(a rouge of sorts if you played Diablo) pre aos, That was awesome, back then you used to get parad a lot and id just pick up my bow and start firing, this would keep them from standing there and casting the ex, fs combo that was sure to follow a para. Remember how folks used to mana dump then med, well i could mana dump then pick up my bow and let my mana come back slowly while they burned up more mana healing themselves. Dont ask why but when chiv came arond I dropped eval and magery even though back then when SC weapons where introduced he would have owned everyone because there where very few archer mages pre aos pre SC. I bet all the oldschool vampires where tickled to death with the addition of SC weapons.
Ok one last thing, as much as I hated the spell becuzz I played dexxers mostly, but Id like Mindblast to work like it used too, I think that will even things out and change a lot of players tactics. Though I suppose it would limit players being able to do cold damage to monters
BRING BACK THE OLDSCHOOL MINDBLAST!