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can you say class action.....

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Mook Chessy, Aug 8, 2008.

  1. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Oct 16, 2007
    Likes Received:
    My chosen field is not the law but I will tell you this, should EA delete my account the law firm I have on retainer will do some reasearch to find out if i have any recourse.

    Including real estate my account has a value over 1 billion gold. With the different websites devoted to the selling of gold and items you can establish a real life value to my account.

    This might sound crazy but let us not forget the huge sums of money paid out by pay pal.
  2. LeeHarvey

    LeeHarvey Guest

    LOL, you must not have read the TOS for the game you are foolishly trying to bash.
    You cant sell something you don't own, you think you wouldn't be laughed out of court for trying that, yeah its obvious the law isn't your chosen field.
  3. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    I have to agree with LeeHarvey, maybe you should read the TOS before you make rash, ridiculous statements and I DO work in the law area.
  4. You dont.
    You own nothing in game.

    You might get a refund for that month.
  5. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Sep 2, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Lets get real - will you?

    First - your lawyer might listen to you - only to suck you dry of some more money.

    Second - The only people who ever get rich in class action lawsuits are the lawyers. By the time they deduct their fees for interviewing and contacting all the complaintants and such - there is often VERY little left over for the actual people who were injured.

    Third - Read the TOS for UO. It specifically states that you do NOT own anything in the game and its all the property of EA. They can delete/remove it at any time.

    The funny thing is if you paid for 1 billion gold through paypal or something (what is that like $750 or about 3 hours of lawyer time) you could likely go to court and have the person you paid it to have to give you your money back since UO gold is not an asset and not something 'owned' by the person who gave it to you. Thus, there is no consideration being given by the person on the other end of the deal and you would have every right to get your money back. They are selling you something they don't own.

    Just like if I sold you the brooklyn bridge.

  6. As I stated in another thread:

  7. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    There is only ONE precedent in this type of action, that would be in YOUR favor. It occurred in China (and would not be applicable in the US). The Court found in favor of the Customer and required the Game Owner to restore all Virtual Properties to the Customer.

    Given the above, in the US, there has NEVER been a settlement for YOU, the customer. It has always been decided for the Owner of the game. The Game owners always make it clear THEY own the VIRTUAL property and NOT the customer. You the customer agree to this to play the game.

    It is what has put the TEETH into WoW/EQ's etc going after people selling items, when they choose to do so. The court has decidedly said the Game owner owns the Virtual Property NOT the Customer.
  8. Amber Moon

    Amber Moon Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    May 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Come on guys. This doesn't even begin to pass the sniff test of not being a troll. And what, already 5 or 6 fish on?

    Ok, I'll pile on just for fun.

    Of coarse you have recourse: find another game and do business with someone else.
  9. It Lives

    It Lives Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Jun 11, 2008
    Likes Received:
    YAY! for you.:loser:
  10. Tek

    Tek Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    May 19, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I’m sure the lawyers at the firm you have on retainer would look into it, then read the TOS and tell you that there is no case. After they would then send you a bill for their services consisting of reading the TOS, something you should probably do yourself instead.
  11. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Yeah, I believe the technical term for selling things you don't own is "fraud"
  12. As a player and EA account holder ...

    Please have your attorney read the game Terms of Service first. I think he (or she) will then advise you there is little ground to stand on. Especially Section 5c (Rights and Responsibilities. It is cited here - please note the bold part ...

    c) Rights. You acknowledge and agree that all characters created, and items acquired and developed as a result of game play are part of the Software and Service and are the sole property of Electronic Arts. You acknowledge that: (i) the Software and the Service permit access to Content that is protected by copyrights, trademarks, and other proprietary rights owned by Electronic Arts or Content Providers (collectively, "Rights"), and (ii) these Rights are valid and protected in all media existing now or later developed, and (iii) except as is explicitly provided otherwise, your use of Content shall be governed by the copyright laws of the United States and other applicable laws. You agree that you may upload or otherwise transmit on or through the Service only Content that is not subject to any Rights, or Content in which any holder of Rights has given express authorization for distribution on the Service. By submitting Content to any area on the Service, you automatically grant (or you warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted) to Electronic Arts the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such Content worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed for the full term including any renewal term of any Rights that may exist in such Content.

    Sorry, you do not own a thing of ingame materials.
  13. Kewl! I think I'm on safe ground then with citing Section 5C down below? <shrug> No matter ... seems all the others in here are also on the same wavelength.
  14. Elffin

    Elffin Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Mar 3, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Looks like a pretty quick question to ask, and probably a quick one to answer,

    Can you say class action lawsuit, Yes.

    Would you get anywhere with it? No

  15. Sunrise

    Sunrise Guest

    After the day I had. I sit down and check stratics and get this thread.

    And then fall out of my chair laughing so hard.....Thank you for posting this man. This was the funniest thread I have seen in weeks!!!
  16. Azazel of LA

    Azazel of LA Guest

    Agreed , let me remind the OP .... ITS A GAME! :loser: :coco:
  17. Dem0nic

    Dem0nic Guest

    I agree.

    Might be time to not just wade in the shallow end of the gene pool, but feel free to get right out!
  18. Wallenstein

    Wallenstein Guest

    Suing EA over a banned account would literally be the same thing as suing someone for taking back a car they let you drive to the supermarket. You really don't own a single thing on your account legally, just like you don't own a borrowed car. So, when that "borrowed" material is taken away or taken back by the owner then there's nothing you can do.

    No player can join Ultima Online without agreeing to the Terms of Service, which basically is a virtual contract. By you checking the 'I agree..' box at the time of your registration waived all rights you had/have to sue EA over anything that is ever taken from you in-game.

    Also, not to go all-out, but $1,000,000,000 UO gold is worth about $1,600.00 USD going by the average cost in $USD per million gold on gold selling websites. A lawyer would easily cost twice that much in the first place.

    But whatever path you choose, may it all work out :thumbsup:
  19. monnie101

    monnie101 Guest

    Well the EULA in these games isn't all legal. A lot of people assume that it's a fully legal contract and that just because it basically says, "we can end your account with us at any time for whatever reason we want and you can do nothing about it" doesn't mean it is legal. Some lawyers have looked over these and found that they contain lines that aren't legal.

    If you truly are thinking about filing suit, I highly suggest you begin building your case. Their is tons and tons of stuff in this forum alone that you can take notes down on. This game has like the worst customer service of any game ever. Their are a bunch of accounts of people being banned and actually being found out innocent, and EA admitting it and then the player sitting with a GM for hours to only be able to remake a few of the items he could prove that he owned.
  20. Wallenstein

    Wallenstein Guest

    When has this happened? As far as I know GMs do not create items whatsoever for any reason at all, regardless of the circumstances. I believe this is against the GM policy but I'm not 100% sure. From every single case I've ever seen, when an item is deleted it's gone permanently.

    EA's support really slipped up on this one in my mind. A banning was a great idea, but there are some people I highly respect that have had their accounts banned and I firmly believe they're innocent.. If they are guilty, fine.. but at least prove it to them instead of simply saying "you're banned, go away, and further communication will not be acknowledged".
  21. monnie101

    monnie101 Guest

    I'm not surprised you addicted UOers do not remember the past when EA has been caught in screw-ups.

    I'll give you just one of the examples.

    Remember that guy who had 50 accounts with his wife and they owned all the houses and museums on that Ice Island? Remember the guy was like mayor of his real life town or something and a well established man with his wife? it was on ice island. I wonder if I still have the page saved in my UO archives. Anyway you have to know what I'm talking about as it was huge. The guy was screwed by EA and they deleted his historical rares and took his blessed things from his houses saying he was not allowed to have them? He got them back long ago when live events were the norm and sometimes GMs would bless things because they could not be locked down in homes back then. This place was a big role-play community back then. Anyway, after a long battle and stressful situations with help from the UO community EA finally apologized about the GMs deleting his stuff and they attempted to recreate the stuff he could clearly proved he previously owned that were shard treasures and UO history. He had to submit screen shots and bunch of stuff.

    GMs DO and have created items. It's rare but they have done it. Although it's even more rare now they do it. Their was another time when a GM came to help a player with an idoc and stuff under the house and the genius GM somehow made everything disappear then the GM sat their for hours recreating some stuff though not all.

    How about when crazy Joe was banned? He wasn't given anything but they did find out he was innocent and reinstated him but only because everyone on forum knows him and wilki helped him when he saw his posts on the subject.

    EA likes to ban people and delete all their stuff before they even get any info from the player and go thru an appeals process. So when they sometimes find people innocent they are screwed and screw the player because they already deleted everything. It's kind of like as if the cops thought your car was stolen so they take it, sell it at auction, and then find out you are innocent and give then say sorry here is this $100 crappy junk car.

    I remember one time one my old rare bracelets disappeared when i tried to lock it down so i paged a gm and told him. I knew nothing would get done but I thought I would try. I had 2 other rare bracelets that were similar. He came and I told him how all I did was place it on the floor of my house to lock down for showing. I knew no one was in the house invisible because I always use that skill to check as well as close the door behind me and take all precautions, and I also have my speech set to whisper it. I know you have to play UO like a paranoid schizo or else you will lose your stuff. I'm no newbie. I told him that I could probably replicate it with the other bracelet. So he asked me to do it. I put it down, and when I hit it with the target cursor to lock down, it poofed! Disappeared. So the GM sw that I was not lying. Well guess what, he didn't even replace the item I lost in front of his eyes! So after calling the GM I lost 1 more bracelet. He told me he could do nothing and didn't know why that was happening. Later on I posted what happened in the UO Rares forum and 2 players explained to me that those were some of the items that you cannot lock down or put on the ground and that I have to keep it in a box or bag.

    Their are way more stories but obviously I don't remember every detail of them all. I was one of the very very very few players of UO that were able to leave UO and actually not come back except for a 1 month visit every 2 or 3 years.
  22. RenaLynne

    RenaLynne Guest

    Unfortunatly, I dont think they do any replacing anymore. At least, I havent heard of it in years. Thats nice... GM didnt even replace it when you repeated to them what happened right in front of their eyes.:cursing: Oh, Id be so livid.
  23. DebiHIS

    DebiHIS Guest

    that happened to me too, had a spot in my house that would eat stuff like a sinkhole.
    wasnt a rare item, and it did it again in front of the GM. he looked under the house, to see if it was under the floor, but no.
    He just said sorry, send in a bug report, nothing we can do.
  24. Ashyn

    Ashyn Guest

    It's a bit sad that UO allowed the sale of in game items and accounts drag on for so long (in-game and out), as well as selling virtual items on their own site - to now have to go back and try to undo the damage it created is going to be a royal PITA.

    But, it does make me wonder who would actually win in that one - the manufacturer who acknowledges and has allowed items to have monetary worth - or terms of service that were bent or borked for years.

    What I think we're seeing at present is Mythic Entetainment stepping in and cleaning up what should have been done years ago and I support that 100%. EA does not handle MMO's well - Mythic has a good past record (and a stern stance against cheating/duping/scripting).

    I'm actually looking forward to watching how this unfolds and enjoy knowing that the Mythic crew are now "stewards" of UO. I, personally, cannot stand EA Games mangement (or lack thereof) - but it won't work until EA's hands are completely out of the cookie jar (which includes their customer service personell and their GM's).
  25. monnie101

    monnie101 Guest

    ROLF and here we go again, more of the stuff happening that I just talked about! What a weird coincidence. I'm popping this thread back up because remember the guy I mentioned that was lost items and was mistakenly banned? The one that owned like almost 50 accounts or something? Well J.C. The Builder just brought up a new dilemma which concerns Wintermoore (I remember the island now it was on Ice Island the snowy place lol) which I is the place I was talking about that I forgot the name of. That's the one I said was owned by a guy who him and his wife played and I believe the guy was a mayor or something of his town.

    Here is the thread linked below. EA deleted all the items in the museum and is keeping them without explanation!!! Luckily the 2 statues were static so the GMs didn't take them.

    I'm just now finding out about the situation and reading.


    Everything in UO is such a huge drama production. Boy, in EQ2 when their is a problem, they get up and solve it. Like Nike, they just do it. In UO it's a huuuuuuuge drama fest incorporating tons of second hand and third-handed stories with EA taking forever to do anything where people can be banned and not even told why or get a generic explanation copies and pasted. Very sad.

    I guess they can't do what EQ2 forums does when these things happen and just say what happened. EA has this big privacy thing they give as an excuse. In the EQ2 forums if anyone says they got unfairly banned, (which is extremely rare) I've seen a GM post and straightup tell the situation. They aren't afraid to call you out. But the STratics forums isn't EA official forums with forum accounts linked to the game account so I guess they can't do that.
  26. DebiHIS

    DebiHIS Guest

    you mean there is hope?
  27. wg1979jr

    wg1979jr Guest

    Actually that game in the beggining said you can own property and sold it to the gentleman that sued and has since changed it and no longers says anyone can own any part of the virtual world. They changed there advertisement ToS and the whole deal after that case.
  28. Lucy of Kenton

    Lucy of Kenton Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    May 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    hi im a uk solicitor and i must say straight away this is not my speciality but having read the tos i have to say if yer banned (as i am) yer stuffed.
    first i knew of my ban was recalling to a keep to find it gone! ive now voted with my feet and gone to wow and will be closing down my uo operation soon. yes i will miss it hugely but if ea can do that to you with no reason given to an almost 9 year player then i want somewhere i feel safe and blizzard have given me that.
    my advice? leave before its you that they f*Jk over
  29. ShadowJack

    ShadowJack Guest

    After reading the tos, it looks like if you came up with in game fiction to rp with your friends or any other thing created by you in game can be legally taken from you and sold by EA

    Char names, anything.

    Gotta read the fine print in everything, they make it fine for a reason, so you'll skim over it
  30. Aran

    Aran Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend -A-

    Apr 1, 2000
    Likes Received:
    You might want to start reading everyone's ToS if you weren't aware of such things before then.