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Classic Shard #2

Discussion in 'UHall' started by eekamouse, Apr 29, 2010.

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  1. copycon

    copycon Guest

    I would like to think that they have done market studies and will make their decision based on the results of those studies over what you or I say.

    In reality, I think they have already made their decision. Feasible or not, it has been a constant target of debate for over 10 years. The outcome of that decision should not have changed because the topic of debate has been the same.

    The only affecting variable that has changed since then is the active subscriber count. If they want more subscribers, a "Classic Shard" will certainly provide that. It is a known fact and it has been proven many times over. But, if they want to keep UO on the track that it is on and drive it into the ground, then that is their decision to make.
     
  2. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Well as far as I know no game has done a classic shard yet.
    DAOC still has none as far as I know. Though daoc has servers with 2 different eras I think
    EQ had progression servers, though don't know how classical they are.

    So I am not so sure how viable classic shards are for companies
     
  3. copycon

    copycon Guest

    The "proof" that I was referring to are things like player-run shards that have drawn attention for the simple fact that their focus is to emulate the "classic era". Or, the fact that forum threads (such as this one) draw attention from people even today.

    There seems to be a common thread of MMO players trying to find the "perfect game" that provides the same level of immersiveness that UO did in the past, and the truth is that no others have managed to do that quite as good as UO did.
     
  4. WhityJinn

    WhityJinn Guest

    So what?They could still mail him and ask.Maybe another thread should be created, with the best quotes from this one, numbers, statistics, etc.

    Thing is, my experince has proved that such affairs like the struggle for a Classic Shard are like riding a mule high in the mountains.You have to beat it hard with the stick, or it won`t move.I mean, really beat the crap outta it`s skull.Or else it simply won`t move.

    There`s already 10 pages and alot of valuable info that Cal or whoever runs the parade could take into consideration.
     
  5. Amren

    Amren Journeyman
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    Jeez.

    I just read the first page of this thread, and already people are picking and choosing what they want in a classic server.

    Everything (all game systems/ items, skills) should be as it was up to UO:r. everything After UO:R is NOT needed in a classic server.
     
  6. Aragon100

    Aragon100 Guest

    Thats the point since AoS completely changed the game. Ruined it for many, many oldtimers which had played the game since the beginning. They never came back but many is still interested of classic UO and play on freeshards.

    If we want AoS features and approve with them we could play today UO.
     
  7. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    if anything from AOS was ever in a "classic" setup I think it should be custom housing ... that's it.

    AOS was such a change I took a vacation from UO for a year ... but at the time I left I had a "classic" villa on the S end of Fire Island on Atl/Fel.
     
  8. Classic shard? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Use the resources to do/create/fix something that benefits E V E R Y O N E!!!!
     
  9. HaHa

    HaHa Guest

    God people are still carrying on about classic shards? Didnt they say years ago there was just no way they could do it?

    [​IMG]
     
  10. copycon

    copycon Guest

    Yes they did, and then they went back on in March and said they "hope" to have an answer before the end of the year.

    Here: Classic Shard is under consideration by EA staff - Britannia Tavern (General) - Ultima Online - MMORPG.com Forums

    Then another update in August that they had "focus groups" to determine the feasibility and that it would be a business decision.

    Here: Mythic Entertainment | Ultima Online - Play the 14-Day Free Trial!

    Then in one of the Town Hall conversations they said that they were focusing on the booster content which is about to release, so no new update.

    So, as we draw closer to the end of the year, we wait. Until then, speculate. :p
     
  11. A classic shard is the only thing that will bring me back to this game permanently. I reactivated 3 accounts for 3 months in order to support the dev team since they seem to acknowledge the fact that a classic shard would be a hit. I even upgraded them all to SA. Unfortunately since we're on the back burner again I canceled.
     
  12. WhityJinn

    WhityJinn Guest

    Renyard, why don`t you mail Cal?
     
  13. Aragon100

    Aragon100 Guest

    Benefits everyone?

    The ones that lost their game february 2003 havent had a subscription UO game to play. Freeshards was their options.

    AoS detroyed their UO. They wont come back to play on some new boats.

    To get these old players back UO will have to make a time warp back to the game we played before AoS.
     
  14. copycon

    copycon Guest

    I don't think you are alone either.

    I have supported the idea, but I have not put my money towards it because I don't believe that reactivating 3 accounts convinces EA decision makers that change is needed. They don't "know" that you are activating your accounts for that reason, all they know is that the bottom line shows $35~ more in subscription revenue.
     
  15. copycon

    copycon Guest

    Yes.

    "Everyone" is a subjective word. "Everyone" will benefit indirectly by the introduction of a Classic Shard because the revenue generated by that will support further development efforts. However, the poster does not see the "big picture". They think that development efforts should be put towards more magical fish pies and technicolor swords and think that will benefit the player base.

    I say nay.
     
  16. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    So explain how the changes to TMaps benefited the PvPers? They did not, not directly and most likely not indirectly without stretching it a bit.

    The story arcs? EMS? Do they benefit everyone? No.

    Many things are put into place that do not benefit everyone. That is a totally bad argument.
     
  17. i think a classic shard would be fun for some nostalgia & some cheap laughs.
     
  18. WhityJinn

    WhityJinn Guest

    northwoodschopper, what are you talking about?What nostalgia?What cheap laughs?
    A Classic Shard is a shard where people who know what UO is about can play for years.

    People on freeshards proved that.
     
  19. copycon

    copycon Guest

    I assume he's referring to the feeling that someone will get if they were to move from one of the current UO shards.

    Many people that play today will still consider their current character and belongings their "primary", and will most likely create a character on another shard for a brief stint and/or for a different experience (i.e. cheap laughs).

    I think free shards prove that the era still attracts people and will continue to do so.
     
  20. uo has tons of nostalgia, a classic shard would let people enjoy things that no longer apply to the current shards. like armor and dex penalties; the old magic item system; using reagents again; 100% skill caps; guildstones; classic housing; etc.

    cheap laughs were abundant when thieving was still viable. same when patrolling w/ a group of reds. prey of both kinds offered many cheap laughs.

    the real question is would an official server be enough of a successful draw from the free ones? because the free ones, in some areas, provide better overall.
     
  21. copycon

    copycon Guest

    Yes, I think it will. A similar comparison would be someone that prefers driving a Sports car to an Economy car. People will pay for the Sports car because it gives them a certain experience and level of satisfaction while others will drive an Economy car because they are affordable.
     
  22. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Stratics Legend
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    We get it. The problem is that I don't think you could get 10 people to agree what a classic shard is. to many people want thier special thing added in. If you want a true Classic Shard it should be right before Tram was created and the Devs could fix the bugs that were there at the time. Anything else is not a Classic Shard. You want pre-Tram then ask for pre-Tram with bug fixes only and nothing else.
     
  23. copycon

    copycon Guest

    The controversy seems to revolve around a few subtleties though. I don't think there is anything deal breaking that would cause someone to write it off if any particular feature weren't included. The "big" things seem to customizable housing and/or to include or not include more modern PvP changes unless I am wrong? I do think that a majority can agree upon the base elements though beginning with no Trammel.

    I'd be interested to see if someone made a list of every key feature to include in a "classic" ruleset and what constructive feedback would come from it.

    I think after all is said and done, the general consensus is that a majority of people don't want elements that were introduced after UO:R, and those requirements were outlined in the announcement that was made in August, so it appears to line up.

    EDIT:

    I see that someone started to, but it was lost in the abyss months ago. ;)

    http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/190295-classic-shard-information-requesting-sticky.html

    A shame that it never got any replies before it was closed...
     
  24. WhityJinn

    WhityJinn Guest

    The question is, will OSI be able to build a sports car...or just an economy car.
    If the latter, then I guess free shards are opel astra.In very good condition.

    Are you feeble minded, lord frodo?

    P.S

    Well, apparently it is not important whether we all agree what a classic shard is or not, as long as it is pre-neon sword of mass destruction+100firedamage.

    Afaik, Derrick never asked anyone or made any polls, he just created his free pre-AoS shard, and many people came to play it.

    I for one don`t care what a classic shard should be as long as it is pre-tram.
     
  25. copycon

    copycon Guest

    LOL!

    I like it...

    I have some level of confidence that EA can "get it right" per se, but it still remains to be seen...
     
  26. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Stratics Legend
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    There is a huge diff between pre-Tram and pre-AoS. No Power Scrolls, No Champs, No Custom Houses. GM Armor, GM Weps for the win. You Want Clasic Shard then take it back, take it all the way back, to pre-Tram, Fel only.
     
  27. copycon

    copycon Guest

    Yes, yes and yes. :)
     

  28. Boohoo. The game evolved, gained new content and so forth that benefited EVERYONE. Don't like it? Don't agree with it? Go play a freeshard. :sad3::sad3:
     
  29. The T-map changes include maps in Felucca so the PKs can kill innocents. Who knows, maybe that will prompt noto-guilds back into action. Content and story arcs benefit a damn site more people than a classic shard would, that's for certain!
     
  30. copycon

    copycon Guest

    What makes you so certain?
     
  31. Naisikras

    Naisikras Guest

    87 more days.... /excited
     
  32. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Stratics Legend
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    They are not talking about making all of UO like this. They are talking about MAYBE making a clasic shard. If this brings more people back to UO than it benifits everybody. Nobody and I mean nobody says you have to play on this shard. It would just be there if you wanted to.

    SO YES IF IT BRINGS PEOPLE BACK TO UO THAN IT DOES BENIFIT EVERYBODY, EVEN YOU.
     
  33. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    The game gained content that benefited only some, others found it destroyed the game they loved and left to find it elsewhere. EA lost the monthly fees and any Expansion money from all those people.

    The game didn't evolve with the release of AoS, it became a sandbox version of another item-based game. And paying customers left EA's UO to find the UO they enjoy playing elsewhere.

    Fortunately, not everyone, is missing that fact.
     
  34. I'm not getting into the debate as I will play UO regardless but...

    I support and would consistently play on a classic shard.
     
  35. copycon

    copycon Guest

    Thank you. :)
     
  36. Spot on Tanivar. Personally I hated all the properties that came along with AoS and all the expansions after it. Give me a shard with no Age of Shadows itemization's on it and I'd be happy. I can live with or without trammel.
     
  37. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    Heh. :)

    I typed that in one of my more lucid moments.

    I still believe though, that even with "more" content and "stuff", the game seems smaller than it was. That's not just because there's less people playing it overall, than in its heyday.

    I'm afraid that for me, no amount of additional "stuff" will bring me back. Just the gameplay elements that were taken away, preferably in a separate "classic" shard option.

    I'm also intrigued to understand why, with the game at it's lowest ever population, the customer service side of things, is worse than when it was at its peak... :confused:
     
  38. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    I am always amused by basic stupidity. :lol:

    You do realise that by not looking into a classic option, that doesn't benefit everyone?

    What is your definition of "everyone"?

    Just the people who like the same things you do? "Everyone" in your circle of friends?

    :popcorn:

    Believe it or not, because UO is supposed to be a sandbox game, there's countless ways to play the game. Some people embrace all aspects of the game, past or present. Some favour particular aspects of the game, past or present.

    You know, the thing that tickles me the most, is those that whined and cried the loudest all those years ago, to get what they wanted, are now the ones whining and crying because the people who's game they destroyed, actually want something back.

    Please understand... we don't want to play a game with people who whine and cry all the time. You've got what you wanted, but looking at the forums, you're still not happy with it, likely, you never will be...

    Well, you got what you asked for and deserve. Enjoy! :lol:

    We would like to be offered a separate classic option, where those that actually wanted to play the game, rather than whine about it, can do so.

    For what it's worth, if a classic option were to be provided, I imagine those who wanted it would be actually playing it, rather than here on the forums complaining about it. Or in the meantime, the lack of it. :thumbup1:
     
  39. copycon

    copycon Guest

    I agree. Looking back on it, I think content could have been added to the game easily to keep a fresh focus without changing the traditional elements that made it what it was. For instance, new dungeons and/or new landmass (i.e. T2A), new enemies (Player controlled or AI), community oriented tournaments, area/town invasions or even some of the changes that were introduced most recently with boating as examples.

    If the PKs, thieves, griefers or whatever buzz word you would use to describe that group of players interfered with any of those elements, then the community would have banded together against them, as is what happened many times over. Instead, those elements were all removed and people were left with the remainder which is a programmed AI and repetitive, monotonous game play which has lost it's luster over time, and I think that is the process that started after UO:R and has continued. Some people may think that the cause is market saturation, and I think that is partly true. But the fact remains that many of us are still here, and we still want UO. That shows something else to contribute to the cause.

    What I think was negative were the changes that were made to the basic mechanics and rules of the game. Those changes not only split the world apart, but removed large parts of the game that eliminated the need for most types of play style except the most basic PvM templates and as such they deflated a large part of what made UO unique.

    I think that explains what it is that we all would like to see with a classic shard, but firstly we need to have something to build on...
     
  40. It Lives

    It Lives Slightly Crazed
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    A classic shard is like looking back at high school and wishing you could go back knowing what you know now.

    The appeal is starting from scratch, the draw back is there is always someone better than you, faster than you and who has more.

    Move on.

    Down with classic shards!
     
  41. copycon

    copycon Guest

    I thought about responding to that, but I won't. There is no need to turn this into a flame war.

    If you want to understand a real perspective, read the thread. If not, continue thinking whatever you like.
     
  42. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Some of you are wise, but there is a lot more going on here than first meets the eye.

    Sooner or later you will all realise what political concept is the issue here, and why some people have been paid more than what it costs to bring the server to life, only to keep the discussion out of track and seemingly defiant.

    Discordian nuclearisation and defiling purpose is what troubles the most subconscious participants, because of the ethics raised.

    Everyone goes around the most basic philosophic point I raised that the old school UO was a drug of bigger proportions that anything that was previously created ; moreso it was also a drug that connected people from all around the world.

    If you look at the tendancy of our patriarchal modern way of life enters in conflict with the dreamy vision of a drug that satisfies all without having any sides effect besides unethical behavior (missing school so you can get make that PK eat his socks) ; then you have a clue.

    If you can figure out how this "power" has been turned inside out to profit those people that created the "gold selling" rings, then you have another clue.

    A multi-billion business can you beleive it, to this day I still cannot beleive that so much people play online games all the time... the biggest pre-tram free servers got what, 500-1000 players on at all times ? That is a whole bunch of players, but seeing the polls of how many people won't play on those just because they are "illegal" or "unstable" is faraminous. Those people are playing farmville on facebook instead ; the state of their desolation is so profound that if given the right view angle a grown man would cry.

    Some people have made pre-tram servers in weeks, part time, in their bedroom. It is pathetic to argue about money, it's pathetic to argue about power as well ; simply because those people closest to the powers that be have shown anything but trustworthyness.

    Most are shadowy figures that you cannot even put a mask on, I salute the effort of GreyPawn for being honest about the issues and his feelings, some others have shown some coherence but have lacked the courage to step forth. It is the time now to act, I invite them to take a stance for it will all be weighted on the day I will decide if they can enter the garden.

    I am merely the gatekeeper, please move on ; I am not the main attraction.
     
  43. The quagmire of coding out all of the unwanted changes but retaining the bug fixes while not creating MORE bugs for ONE shard is an enormous waste of resources IMHO. Bringing more people back to UO doesn't necessarily benefit UO, it benefits EA/Mythic and keeps UO going for a little longer but it doesn't benefit everyone in the way you implied at all.
     
  44. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    Well, it's a big internet, there's bound to be people better or worse when it comes to playing ability, knowledge, etc... in any MMO.

    There's a variety of internet speeds at play, or simply a selection of those that choose to use some form of speed cheat in many MMO's. You learn to live and work within the capability of your connection speed. Not much players can do about the cheating side of things. It's up to the provider of the game to enforce their ToS properly, or take measures to develop preventative measures.

    In most MMO's there's some form of gathering involved, one way or another. Some people are hardcore players and accumulators, some not. Some have played longer than others. If being worried about what someone else has, affects someone's own gameplay so much, then they're missing out on a great deal.

    My biggest gripe with UO as it is now, is that whilst seemingly packing more into the game, it's not more substance. It's more of the same thing that's been coming regularly since AoS. That expansion, seems to have been the watershed for many players. People either liked it, or loathed it. Those that loathed it, did so because it effectively turned UO into something not too dissimilar to other games out there.

    Much of UO now seems to be about accumulating yet more stuff. Items have seemingly become the central focus of the game itself. Both in gameplay terms and the mindset of the players. For many players now it seems, the act of getting possession of an item, is more important to them than the process of getting it.

    "I want this... I need this... I must have this..."


    Whatever happened to "Hey, we went out hunting and fought these really cool monsters. We had to delve deeper into this dungeon, where we fought our way through some really tough stuff. We had to work together with other players to get through the toughest of them. It was great fun... oh and after we killed the main monster, some of us got a cool item, some of us didn't, but we all had great fun."

    See what I mean? The items should be more of a bonus or an afterthought. There's too few people left that think that way. I was one of the latter myself up until earlier this year. In the end, I just got tired of the pixel crack item frenzy. Sadly, I also got tired of the main topic of in-game conversation and interest, being the latest uber item(s). Nobody really cares what the monster is these days, the challenge of what they're facing, or has any interest in the lore of an event. They just want whatever high level item it drops.

    "Woohoo... haven't a clue what the event was about, or the crap they were blathering on about... but I got this, which I can fleece someone for 500,000,000 gold for!"
     
  45. allerk

    allerk Guest

    I know I may be banned for saying this, but..
    I am a supporter of the classic shard. Started playing back in around 99 and Trammel/ AoS were real game-breaking features for me.

    This is a delicate matter, specially when you really consider the other side of the coin.
    I never really understood the proposal of "playing games to burn time" - it was always about adrenaline and immersion. And that was what Ultima Online was about back then. You really felt part of something (people stopped to talk to you, we had real fishers, thieves, virtuous anti-reds, witchhunters, etc), but most of its playerbase nowadays just play to spend time. I see little sense in playing these modern games like World of Warcraft - who would pay a monthly sub to kill boars endlessly? Its so boring that most of my friends who used to play it kept watching TV while doing quests.

    On the other hand, I also know that most of these players find no sense in having risks and roleplay mixed in their game experience. If I played just to spend time, why would I want to risk being killed and losing my gear, and having to craft a new gear before killing more mobs? It's reasonable.

    It's depressing because Ultima Online was ours. It was a game for us, who wanted immersion and risk. After Trammel and AoS (specially item props), the game is aimed to a different player model (the one who doesn't want adrenaline, immersion, risks, need for creativity, etc). It was taken from us.

    I wish all the players could make an effort to think transcendentally. Post-Trammel is flawed for us, just like Pre is flawed for you. There is NO sense in arguing, because we play for completely different reasons! Our Ultima Online isn't your Ultima Online, so we're not even arguing about the same game anymore.

    My main point now (and the reason I might get banned for) is:
    Almost everyone who enjoys the classic ruleset has already played on some freeshards, and probably have seen how some of these are good. Some of them are more crowed than Great Lakes, Chesapeake, and even almost as crowed as Atlantic itself. Some even have custom content (new skills).
    I'm not making propaganda here, my point is that I don't really care that much about a classic server anymore. EA waited way too long to take an action, and now we have classic freeshards and emulators that have evolved way too much. It's going to be pretty damn hard to make these players pay a monthly fee (specially to the same company that took their game away from them). Devs, if the idea is to make a classic shard and not make new content for it, then forget about it. You have to offer more than just a classic shard, because there are many of them around already.

    I really believe that if they do it right, it will attract old and new players. But for that, they'll need new legacy content (that don't affect the stability of the sandbox ideals) and new other kind of attractions.

    To the moderators, if I said anything that I wasn't supposed to, I ask kindly to remove part of the post instead of deleting it, if possible.
     
  46. copycon

    copycon Guest

    While I do agree with a lot of what you said, I don't agree that assuming "almost everyone" that enjoys a classic ruleset has played a free shard. I think there is still a large crowd that has avoided investing time and energy into a free shard for many different reasons ranging from confidence in the administrators to the thought that the experience will not be the same, even with specific design focus. I think the only way those people will come back is if there is an "official" classic shard released, and I think that if it happens those players will come back in droves, and I think they will gladly pay the subscription fee for it. It has been said many, many times on forums all over the internet. You may have noticed...

    I think EA has a big opportunity on their hands to get this right, and I think that if the decision is to move forward with it, they will succeed.
     
  47. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Stratics Legend
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    You are joking, right? If it benifits EA/Mythic with more money than yes it benfits UO. We do not bring in a lot of new players, so bringing back the old ones brings in money and the more money UO brings in the more money EA/Mythic has for UO. Look at SP, they are Fel rule set only so they already know how to do that. Take out all the Gates in Fel and you have no other lands to go to, how hard would that be? Take out all the AoS stuff, turn off the champs, turn off custome housing. You are making the Alps out of some sand dunes. Once this is done then it is done and stays that way forever so they don't need to code new stuff for it. A Clasic Shard would be far easier to maintain then any other shard in UO. A Clasic Shard would be pure profit that Mythic could use for the benifit of the other shards. Quit looking at now and look at the furture, we need players, new and returning or UO will not survive.
     
  48. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Ahh the sound of coherence, can you hear it ? So brief sometimes...

    Wonderful words here.

    They stole it from us.

    The precious.

    YessssssSSSS.

    Besides the obvious, there is sense in that feeling, but it's part of the story, and our lives are part of the story too, remember the avatar steps through and goes adventuring ?

    that... rocked...

    YOU THAT HESITATES, SPEAK UP ! TELL US YOU LIKED IT TOO !

    So if everyone remembers collectively, everyone will agree the best time was around murderer introduction, thus simply put and noone can overstep me on this. HARDCORE MODE FOR REPENTLESS KILLERS with a few advantages which did not have time to get programmed back in the day for fairness of play.

    You now come to see the murderer as the victim, because he loads his mind with all those killings he is evil. That was the goal in the first place, right ? To allow for someone to be, evil.

    I said it again... allowed to be evil.

    The petty bickering that occured was mainly because of murder counts and whatnot. If you wanted to be a real pk back then you didn't mind losing once and for all and being able to step over yourself and quietly walk into town to ask forgiveness for the people you , by luck can ask it from. And well after the day we all remember it was all for the kicks. Agression brings diversity itself brings friendship. In the end when you stumble down that path you must not be allowed to go on again with another char and wreck havock again, it would be an insult to being human. Which is what I represented metaphorically for a while within this game since I was held from any real involvement, like a kindergarden kid who is too close to sound artifacts.

    If you kill someone it means you give yourself to death, encouraging the roleplaying with Morgana's idea of... sorry Sister, I forgot how you called it BUT IT WAS A GREAT IDEA ! That epic thing where you go in dungeons on a horse and give all you can for a while and earn some more epicness kind of thing with more horses and other kinds of flying mounts when you achieve community status and renown. Good ground for community building too !

    You guys know that too, fun stuff to achieve and experience the interaction between hundred see thousands of people, which has been totally denied by our gaming industry.

    *spelling*

    T O T A L L Y

    TOTOLY !

    TOTOTOLY !

    *bites*

    *ROARS*

    Sit tight for the ride of your lives, no alarms and no surprises.

    Thus being said, of course RP must be part of the game, or there is no game.

    This is what you agreed to when you pressed the stone in the chest, and you got there.

    No kidding we are getting somewhere !

    AHA !
     
  49. copycon

    copycon Guest

    I can't really tell whether you are for or against the idea, but the lore is refreshing. :)
     
  50. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Forgive my ambiguousness english isn't my native language :popcorn:

    Of course I'm for. I'm saying it's needed to save the universe from the guardian...
     
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