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Defeating Wraith Form

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Locryn Finck, Mar 28, 2010.

  1. Locryn Finck

    Locryn Finck Guest

    Any tips on how to defeat a necromancer mage in protection mode and wraith form? This is a 1v1 duel type scenario.

    I am trying to find a way with a chivalry dexxer - advice?
  2. Maximus Neximus

    Maximus Neximus Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend 4H

    May 23, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Ward removal talisman or undead slayer.
  3. Venus_AUPK

    Venus_AUPK Guest

    Mortal wound, DP, Holy Light maybe depending on your mana.

    Some useful information

    Wraith Form:

    While under the influence of the this spell, the caster receives:

    * +25% damage from undead weapons
    * +15% physical resist
    * -5% fire resist
    * -5% energy resist

    So Undead Slayer and Concentrate weapon will help out

    Dispel Evil:

    Transformed Necromancers may also take stamina and mana damage. (Never tested this)

    Because there casting is slowed from protection you need to out damage there healing spells.
    Mortal wound will make them change to healing with Spirit Speak so they will heal less
    DP or any poison will stop them heal spamming so they will have to cast cure giving you more time to lay down some damage
    Also making sure you have 100% Damage increase on your suit (not sure if it would stack to 125% using a undead slayer as the pvp cap is 100%)
    100+ Strength(you get a damage bonus at or over 100)
    Greater Str and Dex pots with Total refresh to keep your swing speed at max (Every 30 stamina is .25 of a second off your swing speed)
    120 Tactics 120 Anatomy to maximize your damage capability
  4. This. Even a diehard Trammy like myself knows this. Take him out of wraith form and his mana regen goes down the tubes. If you're a meleer, then just beat him down with an Undead slayer. I've never tested this, but if you have both the Conjurer's Trinket and an Undead Slayer weapon, do you get double the damage? If so, that would be a nasty surprise for the wraith.
  5. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    May 14, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Shouldn't be hard at all they are slower casting and slower moving

    Mortal ten they should just die to DPS they wont be able to heal. :gun:

    Hit hard and fast and shouldn't take but a second.

    Concecrate to hit lowest resist but if he is truly PvP he should be maxed out so prob not an issue. I would definatly enemy of one for the bonus to hit and damage but dont rem if that work for PvP. Undead slayer. :gee:
  6. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    I'd suggest an ornate axe (with Undead Talisman)

    If you have the stamina needed... 150 or above with as much +SSI as you can get. (35 is do-able)
    Disarm whatever defensive weapon he has and keep divine fury up (full stamina +10 SSI, +10 HCI, +10 DI). the -20 DCI really wont matter unless he's a tank Necro.

    And make sure you remove any blood oaths asap, or you'll just end up killing yourself :p
  7. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Jul 29, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Don't waste mana on consecrate weapon. Unless he's a noob, he'll be maxed out all 70s or close enough to it to not matter.
  8. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Why in the world would you use an Ornate axe in a pvp duel against a mage? Wouldn't that be suicide? Cant chug, cant do anything with the two handed weapon...one pain spike and your dex is done, that means your swing speed is done...
  9. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Re: Shouldn't be hard at all they are slower casting and slower moving

    I'm about 99.9% sure EOO doesn't work against another player...Actually I'm like 100% sure now...it doesn't work against players.
  10. Yeah, quite a bit of the info in this thread is inaccurate. Enemy of one does not work in pvp. You do not get double damage from slayers in pvp. OP said this was a necro mage in wraith form (not tank, and I'm assuming not curse weapon).

    The best suggest was to poison/mortal, but the poster didn't take the explanation far enough. The main reason to do this is, as that poster suggested, is that it will force them to heal with spirit speak instead of heal spells. Yes, they will heal less, but more importantly, spirit speak can be interrupted if you hit them, even if protection is activated. The challenge of course, is that a fully outfitted pvper will have potions & petals to deal with poison and apples to deal with mortal. So you'll either have to outlast them (most people don't carry more than 10 maybe 20 apples at a time) or find out what they aren't prepared to deal with. A bleed is another way to stop healing.

    But really, if this is a necro-mage set up for defense (max DCI, maybe even parry), a dexxer is only going to be hitting them well less than 30% of the swings, which makes dealing enough damage to overcome their defense really tough. This is not, however, unique to this template. A good bushido archer healing with bandages, confidence & potions (easy with a balanced bow) is a terribly tough mark to bring down 1v1; and they're firing back at you to boot.

    One thing that I'm not sure about is whether dismount will take them out of wraith form. I know that dismount will knock a ninja out of animal form but I think it may not work with necro forms. Truth is, most people you find in wraith form are dying to get out of the form in PVP because it requires them to be on foot. As a mounted dexxer, this should at least give you the advantage of fighting or getting away.

    As is the case with most pvp, simply trying to smack someone down with more damage is pretty futile. To overcome a good pvper you almost always need a combination of things - different spells, poison, mortal, bleed, dismount & damage. Just focusing on damage pretty much never gets the job done unless it's a gank. Trying to figure out an opponents weakness is an interesting aspect of pvp, and it's the reason why most dexxers & archers carry 3-4 weapons (something with disarm, armor ignore, bleed, poison, dismount, etc.) Too bad most pvp encounters are pure ganks.
  11. Saint of Killers

    Stratics Veteran

    Dec 14, 2006
    Likes Received:
    This is a pretty comical thread, in regard to the advice given.

    EOO doesn't work.
    Ward removal talismans stopped working long ago.
    Bleed attacks do not work on wraith form.
  12. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Jul 11, 2004
    Likes Received:

    Since everyone is going offensive, I might offer a defensive viewpoint. If the OP is in a real duel, and not a field fight, I'd suggest the OP try to get 4 faster cast/6 faster cast recovery if possible. With 4/6 and a decent mana supply, that should also help against a necro. Insanely fast heal/cure/remove curse spells, also improves holy light depending on how much Chiv the OP has.

    If this is a real duel and it requires you to be on foot, that does make it pretty challenging in some regards. I'd ask for better rules, like no form/buff before duel. Then, at least, the guy has to open with wraith form, and can't just go corpse skin blood oath exp fs fs pain spike. Either that, or make sure you carry plenty of buffs with you to pre-buff, and consider getting magic resist spells if you don't have it, hehe.
  13. Locryn Finck

    Locryn Finck Guest

    Its funny, most of the suggestions I've read in here I have already tried with mixed success. The points about the high DCI present on most mages are spot on - to be effective, you MUST mix in a disarm at some point before switching to damage/mortal. Even mortal isn't that effective, since it seems to last JUST short of what you need to get another AI in.

    To the suggestions of 4/6 chivalry - I have it. And a ton of mana to outlast and outheal ANY mage. The trouble? Wraith form leeches a lot of mana. What I usually find is, they will go into protection mode while wraithed and simply spam flamestrikes and greater heals. Since it is a duel and you are forced to stay on screen, your mana pool runs dry before you know it. At which point, you can be killed by lowly flamestrike spam.

    I've heard a lot of people refute that, but it is absolutely true. Wraiths steal mana in pvp in a huge way.

    The one suggestion here that seemed to make sense is the poison/AI spam. That would be achievable with a disarm and weapon swap to kryss. Then stagger both of them. You would have to be perfect in your proximity, and would get only once cycle to do it. Once your mana is spent, and they start casting, its over.

    *come to think of it, this discussion has made me realize how Wraith Form breaks dueling in a lot of ways. Even in a mage duel, it would be a pancake. It is an unofficial game function, but it seems like the only thing you can really do is just say "no wraith form" lol. It has to be the most powerful "form" in the game.
  14. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    because DCI is unnecessary against a mage and you can just recast Divine Fury for full stamina.

    but you do 25% more damage against necromancers in undead forms.

    Depends entirely whether they have wrestling, a mage weapon, or Anat+Eval defensive wrestling.
    If they're just using a mage weapon, they wont be too bad, with the other two, might want a different course of action.

    Nope, but you can use purge magic. (haven't tested the chance for this to work with just JoaT skill)
    That said, it's really easy to recast wraith form.


    and back to the OP, if you're allowed to pre-buff, get a level 6 Arcane Focus and use JoaT Gift of renewal. Will heal back 11 damage per 2 seconds.

    and for poison... fukiya darts with deadly poison, make a separate UOA macro per blowgun and use them all in close succession, so with JoaT ninja it's 20 weapon skill vs whatever they have, which is why you need a large quantity in rapid succession.

    worth repeating what Saint said, Bleed doesn't affect Wraiths.

    Ornate Axe:
    110 Str 100 Tactics 100 Anatomy 20 Lj (JoaT) and 100% DI from items + Undead Slayer:
    24-27 damage per hit + 8-9 with hit lightning = 29 average hit (assuming 50 hit lightning)
    Crushing Blow: 36-41 damage + Lighting = avg 42 per hit (well this actually depends on where in the damage formula the 50% DI is applied)

    get yourself 150 or better stamina, a 30 SSI axe +5 SSI from a ring + 10 from Divine Fury.
    Should be able to get him just fine.