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Developer Meet And Greet Sonoma ~ May 29th 2017

By Larisa, May 30, 2017 | |
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  1. Larisa

    Larisa Publishing Manager, Stratics Leadership Team
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    Larisa submitted a new Article:

    Developer Meet And Greet Sonoma ~ May 29th 2017

    Read more about this article here...
     
  2. Fridgster

    Fridgster Babbling Loonie
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    So the Phoenix will keep its speed unless damaged. Am I reading that correctly?
     
  3. Larisa

    Larisa Publishing Manager, Stratics Leadership Team
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    That's how it reads to me...I mean all the other critters work that way....which is why I beat down things I tame because once they are damaged they are slower. I never confronted a Phoenix before but when I tried taming one on Test, no matter how much I hit it, it never slowed...so I think maybe they are just fixing it to make it like every other critters AI, which makes sense.
     
  4. Fridgster

    Fridgster Babbling Loonie
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    I also assumed it slowed down when struck. Kind of strange that it wouldnt. Seems like a great compromise. Kudos to the devs!
     
  5. S_S

    S_S Babbling Loonie
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    @Mesanna playing stupid on how multi-boxing works is why I haven't played in weeks. Always thought I'd be here until the end of UO, I was wrong.
     
    #5 S_S, May 30, 2017
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
  6. SugarMMM

    SugarMMM Sage
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    And BOOOOOOOOO to this answer also!

    [Thor]: my question is: ANY chance EM drops and such will be made shard bound?
    [Mesanna]: I doubt that, to many people would scream
     
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  7. Fridgster

    Fridgster Babbling Loonie
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    Would be a terrible idea to make those shard bound. Frankly anything shard bound is a bad idea.
     
  8. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    She has since they started... I didn't think anyone could play an ostrich any better... No no not listening... don't know what you are talking about... no people can play as many accounts as they have blame someone else... blame blame ... they aren't doing anything anyone else can't do...

    But... this is what we are left with "any way you want to win you win!"...
     
  9. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
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    She didn't say total no on the shard bounding of some EM drops...
    As for the Multiboxing she did answer it quite clearly
    When they made multi account running legal and part of that was the chance that some smartarsed idiot would find a 3rd party program to cheat...
    Now her answer was very clear that in most games out today that allow for multi account running has this very same issue.
    IT's a switch, meaning only detectable when used and can be lost once its off.
    Virtually undetectable, and that's not just a UO problem.
    GM's have caught some. I can also see being on call for players and having it go off can pose a problem of which do you do first..
    So your answer is simple.
    To catch them is not as easy as it sounds. Not that they do not try. They do.
     
  10. S_S

    S_S Babbling Loonie
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    I've read some real bullsh*t here before, but man that takes the cake! Try? LOL
     
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  11. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Grand Inquisitor
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    I'm willing to bet the number of multiboxers using a KVM switch is ridiculously small :rolleyes2:. Since all the switch would do is replicate keystrokes and mouse movements, it wouldn't allow for the characters to cross heal, which they obviously are.

    The multiboxers themselves have admitted to running 3rd party scripts to coordinate their actions and keep their characters alive and ensure they do the proper Give/Take/Heal ratio. Mesanna's answer, once again, is a complete cop out and display of her willful ignorance. She'd rather lay the blame at Wilki's feet then step up her nonexistent ToS/RoC enforcement - apparently that requires upsetting her sycophantic RMT/rares community.

    As to EM items being shard bound, I'm also willing to bet the screamers would be a vocal minority seeing as how this idea has been well liked over the years. But again, she'd rather appease the rares community over the community at-large...which includes a disproportionate number of EMs... (yeah, player EM identities are a really, really poorly kept secret. :eek:)
     
  12. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
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    Not all EM's are in the rares community, its not a fair assumption to make. Now granted I think this fear that has existed for years of doing something to "damage" the rares community has itself caused a lot of damage to the game as a whole. There is this fear in the devs that they don't want to upset them and that they go out of their way to not do needed changes that would benefit everyone as a result. They hold back on things that should have been given to players years ago and when rares get cancelled out by new content [usually by accident, like the coffee maker giving ceramic mugs], they whine and cry about it and the devs have to apologize for it. They had a head start on those items for nearly 2 decades, get over it.
    I don't think all EM items should be shard bound, but I think a good portion should so that shard hoppers are discouraged from doing so. All the spawning stealables in the last expansion and the primers are shard bound, I know the idea is gaining momentum when it comes to future items.
     
  13. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Grand Poobah
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    You just about have. I really expect the 20th anniversary and party and such to kinda be UO's coda...
     
  14. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
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    You know Dot & S_S I have played other games where this is rampant too and yes I believe they try to catch.
    You just keep thinking they have a ton of people to do this mass hunting for the multiboxing ....
    Let's do the math....
    5 Team members being the Dev. who all live in the EAST..(time zone matters)
    3 to 5 GM's who work to do 27 shards worth of calls also in the EAST time zone... (this is also the Asian GMs in this too)
    That's what 10 people max???
    This has to cover 27 shards.
    23 hours each to catch how many multiboxers?
    The issue is the party who is using said switch where and when... you think the dev are on 24/7/365???? get real
    * Time * remember the Game keepers ie Dev do work a full day, and go home for the night to do what we all do after a day of working.
    GM's work set shifts and do so for long hours. Have you got a GM lately? I have... they are there when needed.
    There is one other issue. You don't take into account the time that SWITCH is activated.

    You who use this Switch know exactly what I am saying and you sit there with a smerk on your face thinking you beat the dev... funny thing is its you who pays later when you have ruined the very object you prey on when the actions you do kill off the game.
     
  15. Promathia

    Promathia Crazed Zealot
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    EM Items aren't the problem.

    Multiboxers are.

    Yall are really naive if you think making EM Items shard bound is going to magically fix everything. Get rid of EM items completely and you also get rid of the program itself. Do you really think the Rares Community or anyone else who enjoys EM items LIKES the multiboxers.

    So how do you fix it? Easy! Get rid of the Multiboxers....Alas since it seems to be legal, I will just have to put up with them. But I do agree that I think they are massively hurting the community. Lets not forget all the other places besides EM events which are being multiboxed now.


    Also, how does making all new EM Items shard bound solve EM Corruption? ...Isnt the very idea of a corrupt EM mean that they are finding ways outside of the normal means to make rares? Why would the corrupt items they make all the sudden also be shard bound? How does that make Glacial Cloth shard bound? Or anything else that was created?


    (Feel free to ignore my post since I'm a Rares Collector, so that means I'm obviously wrong just trying to protect my investment or whatever else you'd like to think)
     
    #15 Promathia, May 30, 2017
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
  16. S_S

    S_S Babbling Loonie
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    I'm in total agreement.

    Get rid of the multiboxing.

    Not sure how we as players can spot these players (it's pretty darn simple actually), yet the DEV team can't? Sounds more like laziness to me.

    Oh well, another night I don't feel like logging in, instead I'm thinking how to convert five accts down to two.
     
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  17. transcendent

    transcendent Journeyman

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    I'm sure they can spot it, but proving from a legal standpoint might be more difficult
     
  18. Scott

    Scott Babbling Loonie
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    I just did this! 7 down to 5 down to 2... this game is no longer worth my $100 a month, but I'll contribute $26... and in all fairness... probably not that much for too much longer.

    In the business word, UO is on the downward curve of the s curve- also known as the logistic curve. It means - those who are left and aren't making a profit off of it, are losing investment in it and starting to walk away... aka - slow consumer decline - which equals - not logging in, or walking away...
    I already know this is not knew news, I just like plotting it and seeing where I come out on a drop %...

    I'd love to see the yearly numbers/projections to cross reference. We could do a drop % and get a rough estimate of how much time the game really has left!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  19. Heimi

    Heimi Babbling Loonie
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    This is what I took away from it - even if they see it happening so long as the person is able to respond to a GM their hands are pretty much tied.
     
  20. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Grand Inquisitor
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    *rolls eyes*

    Since blatantly obvious multiboxing happens at nearly every EM event, the devs have at least one observer at every event. Since the EMs are in contact with Mesanna, and likely have increased access to GMs, the "police force" is literally right there. Does it mean extra work? Duh. But then enforcing the ToS/RoC means actually putting in some effort, not continually sticking your head in the sand.

    As producer, Mesanna could "outlaw" multiboxing simply by saying so...but she chooses not to and plays dumb when an angry customer brings it up. The GMs could ban easy-to-spot event multiboxers simply for doing it and be perfectly fine. Start with a warning even, then move up to progressively harsher penalties - including a permaban. Players can be infracted for whatever in-game reason EA/BS wants.

    This isn't rocket science, nor is it all that difficult to police.

    But please, continue trying to obfuscate the issue and be an apologist for awful customer service...
     
  21. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Grand Inquisitor
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    They have nothing to "prove" really, nor are their hands "tied." UO is their world and we just pay for the privilege of playing in it. Remember, none of the pixels, including our characters, belong to us - they belong to EA.

    Mesanna could boot multiboxers out on their ass and be perfectly within her rights. They would have no recourse.
     
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  22. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    The GM's could go to the events and jail all multiboxers for the duration of the Event.

    Mesanna could say in a newsletter than MULTIBOXING will NOT be Tolerated.... and then simply enforce it. She could and she should... but since she choses to play stupid and act like she can't do anything or doesn't get what is happening we are all left to either join them or say F this and all quit...

    She is the producer... She can Ban and delete any account she wanted to its in the TOS... they own everything on the account...
     
  23. Deaol

    Deaol Certifiable
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    It is simple; the games community is small enough. Everyone knows who multiboxes at every event. Everyone knows whose vendors always are stacked with multiples of recent items. If you care; stop buying from them, stop supporting them.. eventually it wont be worth there time and they will go away.
     
  24. S_S

    S_S Babbling Loonie
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    No, they won't. Pipe dream.
     
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  25. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Stratics Forum Moderator
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    Unfortunately, as we have all seen, there is no way to truly get people to stop buying from the multiboxers and scripters. Human nature and greed overrides that effort every time.

    Someone can start out truly wanting to stop buying from the cheaters, but as soon as they see a cheap rare they like on a known cheaters vendor, all they will think is "ooh I like it, I want it, who will ever know if I secretly buy this, I can still tell people I am against buying from the cheaters anyway" etc.

    So they buy the cheap rare, and then another one, and soon they are buying a cheap rare off the same vendor every week while still pretending to be completely against cheaters in public. It's been happening in the rares community for over a decade.

    There are some exceptions who truly do follow through on what they say by not buying from the cheaters, but they are a rarity, not the majority.
     
  26. Scott

    Scott Babbling Loonie
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    Guilty!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  27. Scott

    Scott Babbling Loonie
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    That recent Catskills painting... last year would have been 600-1p easily due to color... now - 175m on a vendor... hard not to purchase it... bites nails...

    And who can blame me... supporting a Multiboxer? Well- if I feel the game is going down hill, it's hard not to enjoy it while it lasts... I know I'm gonna get slammed for that- but eh, whatevs... I'm not playing with people's livelihood- I'm enjoying a hobby I've had for almost 20 years... I'll be ok if it goes poof...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  28. arkiu

    arkiu Journeyman
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    Gonna throw out a poorly thought out and likely highly unpopular idea:

    Do away with EM events and move toward mini global arcs which might allow coordinators (EM's and Devs) to have more safeguards from multiboxing and cheating. I used to love doing EM events but between multiboxing and the latest EM scandal my view of these events has been tainted. Its just an all around greed fest and the events themselves are mostly kind of boring anyway.

    To be honest and I admit that might be kind of a stupid suggestion - but I do believe an alternative to EM events or at least a drastic change should be in the works. Sick of hearing people (justifiably) complain about multiboxing and what it is anyway. The "rares" market is so highly saturated with EM event items... And honestly though I won't name names or anything but I kindaaaaaa suspect other EM's (at least a while back) were doing some shady things narrow the group of players who got event items.

    I just think if the devs are gonna argue that they can't completely cover their bases and prevent cheating, they need to find some sort of alternative to the current system because honestly its not that cool anymore and it shouldn't be out of the cards to find some sort of alternative to the current system.
     
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  29. OREOGL

    OREOGL Crazed Zealot
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    Legal standpoint?

    If you have ever read the terms of service you'd know they could end your service immediately just because they wanted to.

    There is no legal standpoint here.
     
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  30. OREOGL

    OREOGL Crazed Zealot
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    Only account active here is the one I paid 450m gold for a 6 month code.

    Rest are cancelled.

    I've spent more cash on a Facebook game in the last two weeks than i have playing UO the last 6 months.

    I could buy more GTCs with gold but it's not worth it should I decide to get rid of the accounts.
     
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  31. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
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    Roll your eyes all you like Dot.

    What you all are asking is for them to drop everything and chase the bad ol players and do what?
    ban them?
    You honestly think they are that easy to get rid of?
    give me a bloody break
    Your so gung ho about getting rid of this menace but you didn't think it all out.
    This is about RL $$$$ in most cases.
    This is really about you asking them to kill the 5 headed hydra....
    Chop one head off 2 grow back....
    As for perma banning heheheeheheee don't make me laugh
    I have seen people I knew who got perma banned, took them in a matter of days to be back in the game and they were free as a bird doing the same old stuff.
    There was no way to prove it was them when a GM showed up...
    It took me a few to figure how they did it * there is no way to stop their return.
    Trust me Mesanna was not blowing smoke up your skirt, it really is hard to stop this issue.

    * No I will not tell you how so get a life and don't bother me.
     
  32. RhelHalcyon

    RhelHalcyon Journeyman

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    I've returned from a long hiatus (play off an on every couple years for my "fix") and am a bit confused about the multi boxing issue. Is this specifically people who use multiple accounts in tandem with 3rd party programs? Or is this against all multi boxing? Like say if someone has a mage/tamer and a disco/tamer and logs them in and runs them out separately to do content but only really uses the disco tamer for disco and plays the mage/tamer for keeping pets alive etc?

    Although I know a lot of people will screech and scream, but one way to kill 3rd party programs is to bring the client up to date. Create a new client to be something on par with (not identical too and maintaining the "feel" of UO) other newer ARPGMMO's and kill off the use of the CC and possibly the EC. If the graphics are updated and the programming engine as well it might have the additional benefit of attracting new players. Other ARPG's have huge followings and from discussions with my circle of gamer friends their first comment is "You still play that game with 800x600 pixelated resolutions?!"

    Seriously believe if the client was updated a lot of my friends would at least give UO a try.
     
  33. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Grand Inquisitor
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    Bull and poop.png . Much like the rest of the smeg you post.
     
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  34. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    If they knew everytime they showed up with their 4+ characters all in tow all multiboxed they would spend the rest of the night in jail each and every time they would get the idea that it's not going to fly anymore... The first time or two they completely miss out on EVERY drop and don't even get 1 they will knock it off.... because it isn't making money for them anymore ...... PERIOD.

    That would be an enforcement of the TOS plus it would stop them. Guarenteed... IF they chose to quit or close out their other 3+ accounts so what?? I can say this with absolute certainty..... IF They started to do something like this FAR more people would start enjoying the EM Events again and they would start returning to restarting their other accounts....

    IMO why keep 4 or 5 dirtbags who spoil the fun for everyone else over 4 or 5 players who follow the rules???

    Eventually by doing nothing they are driving away dozens of players who are FED UP. And all they will have left playing are the dirt bags... who eventually aren't going to have anyone but themselves to sell **** to.
     
  35. petemage

    petemage Certifiable
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    Well, and you make it sound like it is only 100% or 0%. It would be an very visible statement if they only policed EM events for a start. Thats nothing 24/7 on 27 shards, that's max a single hour a week per shard. But you know what? Even that is toooo much. Go figure..

    The KVM statement is also utter nonsense but it's pointed out over and over already.
     
  36. petemage

    petemage Certifiable
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    Can't help but think of this as a Stratics addon. Like it's the long awaited third faction in the next story arc of the client wars.
     
  37. RhelHalcyon

    RhelHalcyon Journeyman

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    There wouldn't be a faction war. The other two "factions" would be dissolved for a new "faction" completely programmed using an up-to-date language and not tied into the necessity of supporting a 20 year old client using out-dated code. It would additionally cut down on the need for cross-client programming and testing (CC/EC). Using a new programming language could cut down on available exploits, but a major benefit analysis would need to be determined. Broadsword would be creating a "UO2", utilizing all of the systems/skills/spells/creatures/items etc in place now, but moving them over to an updated client platform completely unrelated to the current platforms.

    Lots of problems with this - die hard UO supporters who can't let go of the CC would be the most vocal imo. Behind the scenes you'd have cost for resources and personnel. It would be like producing a completely new UO. I doubt we'll see it happen. The issues that exist (and have almost always existed) will just continue to plague UO.

    On a side note, if multi-boxing is being performed via a hardware switch, its impossible to detect unless you're physically present watching the characters do it. Mesanna did say that proof would be appreciated. Maybe Screen shot the people with names visible who are doing this and email the SS to her?
     
  38. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    She could be standing right next to them and wouldn't know what the hell you are talking about... it's CLEAR she can't see Multiboxing and REFUSES to acknowledge they are RUINING her precious EM Events.


    Now I'm blonde but I can see what they are doing... anyone with a pair of eyes can see what they are doing.... YOU DON'T NEED PROOF! Just a pair of EYES. Jail them.

    And if they complain say they were OBSERVED Multiboxing. Make it happen. You don't have to detect their switch or anything... just observe them. The detection is in SEEING them doing it. If you already know the means then seeing the end result is the same. There are NO OTHER means than cheating to multibox... so seeing the end is all the proof that is needed.
     
  39. SugarMMM

    SugarMMM Sage
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    I have always said if you want to get rid of multiboxing at EM Events then make the EM Event drops shard bound.
     
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  40. S_S

    S_S Babbling Loonie
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    This is not the answer. If EM event items become shard bound, they will just sell the items on that shard (even at a price reduction on smaller shards) and transfer the gold.

    There is only one good answer for multi boxing. Put a stop to it.
     
  41. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Stratics Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter The Valorian Knights

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    How would that get rid of multiboxing? They would still multibox on Atlantic and sell all the shard bound Atlantic event items for just as much as they do now, since the majority of the buyers live on Atlantic anyway.

    They would also still multibox on other shards and simply swap items with people instead of selling them. Currently they transfer it to Atlantic and sell it, if it were shard bound they would just say "I'll give you three of Rare A on Catskills if you give me one of Rare B on Atlantic" then they will take Rare B and sell it on their Atlantic vendor exactly like they do now.
     
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  42. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    For once i was impressed with the quality of both the questions, and the answers in this meet and greet.

    By the way, why does anyone care that people are multiboxing to get the event items? all the event items are just decoration, if you didn't care about deco so bad, they wouldn't be worth multiboxing for, you trammies are your own worst enemy.
     
  43. Fridgster

    Fridgster Babbling Loonie
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    *slaps Mervyn with a trout* That's for the trammie comment. Though I agree I don't understand the nuttyness of Em drops. Matter of fact I still have a box of rare gems or something like that that I've been wanting to sell for months now. Think I traded a tarantula mount for it. Guy really wanted the mount and I had choosers remorse after selecting it.
     
  44. Uvtha

    Uvtha Stratics Legend
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    0% chance of that happening. They tried that once and it got **** on, and that was back when UO had a proper dev team and probably double the subs. It is what it is.
     
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  45. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Grand Poobah
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    If you mean the KR or the EC clients, they got **** on because they were released half finished and for the most part nonfunctional without downloading and using player modded programs, which seems to be to be stupid IF you are going for the no 3rd party aspect.

    If they worked up a nice fully functional FINISHED and operational clent that didnt lag, didnt give motion sickness, didnt take forever to tell you you were dead...well, you get the idea. But it seems beyond the reach of BS.
     
  46. Coco_Zamis_DF

    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    Just Take one of thoose tangle toons to jail and compare their Dancing via kvm or Software with others still at Event.
    If you See a twin making the same moves, ban the Line of accounts.
    A gm can also Look at two Screens.

    "AFK macroers will be punished" what a Joke. This is The only stuff they can detect, and should Show how hard they rules.

    Sorry BS does sometimes good Work, like pub97, and in other cases(multiboxing detection, ACC Management) they do worst.
     
    Keith of Sonoma likes this.
  47. drcossack

    drcossack Crazed Zealot
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    You don't need to give her proof. She (and presumably the other Devs) can tell when people are using 3rd party programs, and how long it's been since they were used. Also, emailing screenshots? You're kidding, right? I've sent multiple emails to Mesanna for various issues and only gotten one reply, which was solely due to what the subject matter was (it had screenshots, plus it was...offensive.)
     
  48. RhelHalcyon

    RhelHalcyon Journeyman

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    This party programs possible, depending on how it interacts with the client. A KVM isn't a third party program, and doesn't require one to use. It's purely mechanical. Whether they act on reports or not is another issue entirely. To claim they're all knowing is pretty bold imo. That and to catch those in the act requires baby sitting, and with a finite amount of team members on any production team it becomes difficult to police.

    Not saying there isn't more that can be done, but I think we as users have to realize that there are many factors involved outside of just "knowing" and "acting." Possibly even legal repercussions.
     
  49. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
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    Well I did hear one idea and it seems in the long run it might be the best thing the Dev can do to stop all the debate on this.
    No Drops. Single click machine.. for a trinket all can have... stop all the big ticket junk.
    As you pointed out they use this to max out the chance of getting the big drops.
    It's clear this is the only option that wound stop the issue.
    Every click gift has been of little gold value over the years so this would not be a reason to multibox.. now for other fighting a GM might go a bit more harder to take the offending party down as you say...

    Some of you will argue this is going too far
    Some will bi tch its not fair
    While some of us will get some peace and quiet out of it!
    And for once stop all the greed and one upmanship you all have been doing.
    Atlantic Luna is very ugly with the mess and its like Las Vegas all lights and show but no substance or heart.
     
    #49 Lady Storm, Jun 1, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2017
  50. drcossack

    drcossack Crazed Zealot
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    She said it herself over a year ago on LS after some player complaints of EM favoritism. Though that was also the same meeting where she didn't know what UO***** was, sooooo (she confused it with the gaming service.) Regardless, it's not unheard of for the higher-ups of a game/gaming website to have that power, and in fact, it's quite common. I know Blizzard does it a lot for D3 - there was an (easily-performed) exploit with a gem they introduced for the 20th Anniversary, and they banned anyone that abused it. Same with people who run bots to play the game.

    Legal repercussions? Every TOS ever (which nobody admittedly reads) says they can terminate your account for any reason they want. They don't though, because THAT could result in legal action, especially in cases of unfair termination. If you page the GM's for ANYTHING (that isn't afk macroing/farming, because they tend to take care of that pretty quickly), they do NOTHING except give you the canned answer of "We're looking into it, and you won't be informed of what we find out."