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Feelings about crafting from a returning veteran.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Miriandel, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. Miriandel

    Miriandel Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Aug 3, 2009
    Likes Received:
    Hi all,
    I made GM smith/miner back in 1997, had a long UO break and started playing again last july.
    Being a crafter at heart, I worked hard to have legendary crafting skills and 'tried' to get into business.
    Granted I play on a low pop server, Drachenfels, but I feel rather pointless trying to be a crafter nowadays, for the following reasons:

    1° Items don't wear off like they used to, and should.
    255 durability is way too much, UO still better than silly EQ clones were items do not wear off at all, but a 255 durability weapon can last a very very long time compared to a prized katan of vanquishing back in the days.

    2° UO is now a game of have and have not.
    I sell my wares to relatively new players, who don't have artifacts from the hat to the boots. The power of those artifacts is so absurd that there is no chance at all I can craft something they want.
    Coupled with point 1, the gap is IMHO way too big between artifact geared and crafting geared players. Now with artifacts to be imbued, heh...

    What do you think about this?
  2. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Only ways to make gold with crafting is either with Imbuing or bods. Trying to sell regular exceptional items just doesn't work. And mostly runic made items without adding something with imbuing isnt working either anymore. But you get good price for POF:s now.
  3. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Actually, they did an excellent job of interweaving all the crafting skills along with imbuing to make each one have its own importance. But you can't just be a smith, or just a tailor.
    Imbuing is necessary, but all the old skills are too.
  4. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Premium Stratics Veteran Wiki Moderator Stratics Legend

    Mar 18, 2004
    Likes Received:
    imbuuing or no imbuing I really miss the days standing at the forge repairing and making items to order and interacting with people! to me this was the hayday of the crafter!
    I understand things need to change and evolve (or de-evolve depending on your point of view) if i had one wish for uo it would be to bring that kind of style and class back to uo!
  5. Miriandel

    Miriandel Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Aug 3, 2009
    Likes Received:
    What makes you think I don't imbue?
    I have all trade professions to the maximum level, and what I sell better are full armor sets because it's the last thing you have to think about, matching parts together so you can cram as many enchantments possible on the armor.

    But weapons?
    I don't sell any.
    Either I have to PoF them to the roof when the runic spits a max SSI or something and I can't seem to sell for the price it costs me in time to gather the ingredients, or I don't PoF them and they are simply not attractive because the ingredients are too hard to come by.

    I look at my customers' gear, what am I expect to sell to someone coming with a 40% SSI XBow with a total weight of 600 or so?
    And his XBow will last past he gets a new one, I have nothing to offer him.
    He won't even buy me an armor set, his artifacts are way too powerfull to be replaced by some crafted stuff.

    When UO was the best crafting game on the planet, I stayed for hours on end at the Britain forge, repairing for free, advertising my wares, showing off my full valorite plate.

    If I wander around nowadays with the best gear I can craft, people will laugh at the nOOb that I am!

    I burned countless sewing kits crafting armor parts, what's left?
    Nothing, the best things the barbed kits gave me are long converted into relics, imbuing is a very wellcome replacement for the lottery runics were, on top of the worst time sink I ever experienced in any game.

    So now, besides my scribe, alchemist and carpenter shops, I try to sell imbued stuff worth nothing compared to artifacts, special reward sets and whatnot.

    UO stands apart from crap games where crafting means squat because items wear off. That's the deal.
    I remember a PK giving my warrior a lot of problems back in the days with his kryss of vanquishing.
    Eventually, it wore off, and suddenly he was nowhere to be seen.
    Now, his kryss would last forever, and I don't like that.

    Thanx for reading.
  6. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    I come from that day as well.
    Nowadays, most crafting is done to support your
    characters. Back then, Balrons were pretty much
    the hardest thing to fight. Today, you won't stand a
    chance with GM made armor/weaps against the
    dark fathers. Para balrons etc.
    The real money making is in selling Artis and somewhat
    in selling imbued items and ingredients.

    I'm still split on if things were better then or now...

    On one hand we've lost a lot of the community aspects
    of the game..
    On the other, there is a whole lot more to do, places
    to go, more variety of monsters to fight.

    I find myself unable to get bored with the game now
    as I did in the past.
  7. Sara1

    Sara1 Adventurer
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Nov 4, 2003
    Likes Received:
    But, I do remember "back in the good ole days" when we would all take our armor to the Smith to repair, a lot of times, we didn't get our items back. This way, we don't get scamed as much. Too bad a few idiots ruined some good times for us.
  8. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Barter Town

    Jul 3, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Come to Siege.

  9. Kirthag

    Kirthag Former Stratics Publisher
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Benefactor

    Feb 25, 2004
    Likes Received:

    That is why you got with a trusted blacksmith!

    When the AOS came out with various changes to weaponry and armor - I just about mothballed my crafter. :( Sad... I had worked so hard to make her a well rounded crafter (tailoring/blacksmith with minor in carp & tink). Not easy balancing those skills for a good combination! But is feasible.. and I was happily making armor and weapons and had a pretty decent time... until AOS...

    Imbuing is giving me a bit of hope so I can compete with the arti-merchants. I have stockpiled enough resources to fully arm an army of paladins AND mages! Maybe now I can really buff them up for sale.....

    Will see...
  10. Amren

    Amren Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 24, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Crafted items could have half the durability and fall apart after awhile and I still would not turn to you to make new ones. Not to be rude but any established player in this game can sustain themselves with no help from others.
  11. Fink

    Fink Guest

    I wouldn't try selling sets of armour, just pieces. Arms are always in demand as there aren't any must-have arties for that slot (midnight bracers aren't staple items). Leggings and gloves are also in strong demand. Companion jewels to compliment commonly-used arties such as the ornament of the magician, and so forth. Basically you need look at all the popular suit builds and focus on creating items to fill the holes.

    As for the days of at the forge of the brit smith, they're long gone as everyone has a "mule". Trust went out the window with arties and repair contracts. The nearest thing you'll find to those glory days would be as a guild crafter, which isn't a bad gig.

    With Imbuing, you can promote yourself as doing custom work. Have a fixed vendor selling your regular or speculative wares, but avail yourself for making one-off items for clients. If you really know this craft well, people will remember and recommend you.
  12. Fizzleton

    Fizzleton Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    May 13, 2008
    Likes Received:
    well, I second the dura-claim. Imbued items should get a max dura of 50/50. This way, they last long enough (say, depending on how much damage your char gets, one month to half a year). This would grant a steady use of these items, and crafters would really have something to do.
  13. pgcd

    pgcd Guest

    50 durability = one month?
    If I use less than 30 durability a day on my weapons it's because I haven't been playing much =)
  14. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Supporter Alumni Dread Lord

    May 12, 2008
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  15. Fizzleton

    Fizzleton Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    May 13, 2008
    Likes Received:
    you are familiar with the concept of repairs, are u?

    one rep a day = 30 dura losses per month. not to count those when u get a full repair without a loss.
  16. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Dec 1, 2009
    Likes Received:
    Arms and gorgets with high fire and poison resist are always in demand by faction warriors (rest is occupied by mace n shield, fey leggings, rune beetle, strom grip)
  17. Joshua Ravenloft

    Joshua Ravenloft Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Oct 15, 2008
    Likes Received:
    QFT. Been that way for a long time now..........
  18. onthefifty

    onthefifty Guest

    i read the initial post twice and wonder what this poster wants. i did not play in the good old days so i cannot base my opinion on what once was but from my opinion imbuing has really made crafting very useful in this day and age. i have played my crafter more in the past two months than any time since i started playing just filling bods for fort powder. powder that i cannot keep on my vendor even when just for curiosity i priced at 500k per bottle last weekend. (it sold) i put another batch on for 350k per bottle the nite before last and it was gone in an hour.

    second. i don't buy the line that everyone has a mule now. sure many do, but i play with people who have no desire to craft and would rather buy the necessary ingredients and ask me to make what they want.

    uo remains a game with many different play styles. you can still be quite viable as a craft merchant. maybe your first step should be a cross shard move to a server that is more populated. posting what you are selling on the trade boards is bound to get you some business. showing up in luna bank during prime time and offering your wears will get you noticed. dropping runes to your vendor, etc etc...

    give it a try.
  19. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    Ahh yes. Back in the day, was a wonderful time for crafters. Especially around the brit forge.

    People would die, and lose their gear. They'd then have to visit a crafter for their leather suits for mages, studded for pvp warriors or heavy archer suits. We'd all have to buy a new bow or kryss every few days or get it repaired. It was a beautiful time.

    I can not imagine how it is on production shards now. Everything you need is acquired by hunters and blessed, so what is the point of a crafter? Even imbued items don't stand a chance next to faction armor or real arties. It's a step in the right direction, but it's not there yet.

    On Siege it's a whole different story. While weapons are usually taken care of, I still need to buy GM barbed suits 2-3x a week. With imbuing, i'm waiting for the prices of nice resist (65+ in each) plus MR armor to drop to an affordable level. Imbued weapons would also sell very well.

    Point is, blessings destroyed crafting as much as item properties and artifacts did.
  20. pgcd

    pgcd Guest

    I'm sorry, but - even assuming your numbers, that means that I should be leaving home with a 30/30 weapon in a couple weeks or so, and that's not going to happen.
  21. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Jul 31, 2005
    Likes Received:
    Just a thought.......if you started back in 97, quit, then return now, how is that being a veteran?

    It's not................

    Crafting is what you make of it......personally, I make my own gear, ALL of it. One has to be a sucker to pay some luna crackhead for items.
  22. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    May 15, 2008
    Likes Received:
    1.) You are right, items don't wear out anymore (except for imbued items). Not only do they have high durability (they can go 255 times to 0 and be repaired 255 times before they'd break), they also can be fortified back to 255 maximum durability, should that ever be necessary. I.e. they NEVER break.

    2.) Imbuing changed the odds a bit. While before imbuing you depended on having expensive artifacts, today you are able to craft nice items with a medium Imbuing skill. (I created nifty jewelry with only 85 Imbuing.) It is relatively easy to put the exact properties on items that your character needs. It isn't even necessary to max out the properties (for which you would need 120 Imbuing skill and rare ingredients).
    However, I still see the problem that with all the non-imbued items on the market that never break, the demand of crafted items is very low anyway. Due to a lack of new players, nobody really needs new items anymore, as once you're equipped you're done forever (unless you lose an item to a bug or a hack). All my characters are equipped and probably won't change anything about their armor and weapons anymore, except maybe a different ring or so.

    The curse of the crafters is basically:

    - Lack of new players.
    - Non-imbued items that never break.

    The logical solution would be:

    - Get new players to play UO (practically impossible with a stone-aged client and no marketing)
    - Abolish Powder of Fortifying and limit the maximum durability of items to 100.
  23. Yeah, pre-AOS, when there were 300,000 or so people playing UO, and armor and weapons both matched and were simple to understand, people did want higher durability and a way to repair items without taking a chance on losing them. Instead of putting in PoF as a really high-end, hard-to-get item that people would think twice before using on anything short of an eminently accurate katana of vanquishing, and adding repair deeds like they finally did, the Devs made this horrible, complicated weapons and armor system that we have today. Nothing ever wears out, PoF was plentiful until Imbuing was introduced, and we need a calculator to figure out whether anything is worth looting. People are still wearing horrible-looking, mismatched armor. Mages have to wear armor to survive; pre-AOS, a lot of them just wore clothes; even leather armor decreased the rate that mana replenished from meditation. Most warriors are wearing a horrible-looking combination of leather, studded, plate, and artifacts.

    Imbuing has the capability to change that, though.

    I have noticed people gathering materials to make dragon scale armor suits, full Valorite plate suits, ranger armor suits, Daemon bone suits, etc.; some people are going to be wearing all that armor again that we used to show off at Brit bank before the Devs began sacrificing us players to the altar of the Random Number Generator. It'll still be too complicated, but at least we won't have to get out our calculators when we go hunting. Just grab the gold and leave all that junk on the corpses, or take it to the imbuer, so he can turn it into the ingredients to make some armor we actually want.

    I would predict that some crafters will be making some nice, matching suits that players will be proud to wear.
  24. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

    Apr 12, 2001
    Likes Received:
    Think about it.

    On Siege we don't have item insurance and very few items are blessed so PvP players do need crafters.

    If you die on Siege, you may very well lose your suit and many will buy a new from a vendor.

    If in a guild, guildmates will ask you to make items for them.

    You really should give Siege Perilous a try.