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Frenzied Whirlwind Damage FWW

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by Pawain, May 26, 2019.

  1. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    Single Target test. Real UO world.

    Frenzied Whirlwind Deals scaled damage based on Ninjitsu/Bushido skill levels within a two tile radius over 2 seconds.
    Mana Cost - 20
    I have this on a Triton. I thought I would evaluate the FWW damage since I can see it. Will put Chiv later. Pet has GM skills in all melee. The starting Ninja was 46 two Navreys took it to 57.
    upload_2019-5-26_13-30-7.png

    Normal damage 32 to 52. Many mid 40s More 50s than 30s.

    Armor Ignore damage 110 to 148 Most above 125

    Does damage tics like this.

    The normal damage is easy to see. The AI damage is easy to see.

    Here are two pics of the FWW damage:
    upload_2019-5-26_13-34-14.png upload_2019-5-26_13-35-15.png

    The damage scrolls fast. There is always a normal damage level or two mixed in. They start and end with a lower damage. Sometimes an AI damage level is mixed in. So I'm guessing that the pet does a different damage within the 2 seconds of FWW.

    So the FWW seems to do more than 80 damage. It should increase as the Ninja skill increases.
    6 to 8 damages of 12 averages over 85. More than normal damage.

    I have never been impressed with FWW on pets. The first Cu I made had FWW because at that time I was farming the Blackthorn Mages with my Cu before the pet revamp.

    It hits Multiple targets each with those numbers. Works great at slugs. If you want to kill them...
    upload_2019-5-26_16-35-23.png

    But since nobody is coming up with cool Triton builds I'll have to settle for this.

    You are welcome to show the FWW damages your pet does.
     
    #1 Pawain, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  2. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    Numbers are lower on an Allosaurus. It has 67 phy resist. Navrey was 51. Allo is a slow kill Ninja 61.3 now.

    upload_2019-5-26_15-10-13.png
     
  3. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    Archaeosaurus and Anchisaur have low resists you can see the starting damage of FWW.

    Each hit is different but this is about the max at this level Ninja.
    upload_2019-5-26_15-27-1.png upload_2019-5-26_15-28-43.png
    upload_2019-5-26_15-27-52.png Arch upload_2019-5-26_15-29-17.png Anch

    So base damage 19 to 32 per FWW hit. At 62.4 Ninja.


    If somebody wants to see what AP does, these have decent HP for testing.

    Not that great damage on 90 phy Resist T Rex. The 33 is normal hit.
    upload_2019-5-26_15-58-59.png
     
    #3 Pawain, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  4. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    Ninja skill is now 110.
    Below is damage at 55 Phy Resist Navrey:
    upload_2019-5-29_19-4-58.png
    FWW damage did not increase very much with 40 more skill points.
    In CC it seems you get 2 seconds worth of damages. You can see 4 at a time. Usually you have 8.
    2 of those damages are other hits. (normal or what other damage the pet does). You can get 2 FWW in a row sometimes you get a couple of extras.
    So 6 hits at 9 is 54 total. More than a normal hit. 6 hits at 20 is 120 total. My estimated mean is 84 Total. The min max in my example averages 87 Total.

    During this time you have 2 other damages.

    IN CC the pets head moves back and forth at a steady rhythm. You can get a sense of its timing for its damage.
    If you follow the rhythm of the pet, during that 2 second time, your pet will do 2 damage types. Two normal hits for 46 each. 93 total. If FWW is used the pet still does those 2 hits plus the 87 FWW damage so the Total damage during those 2 seconds is 180.

    Here is what I am seeing. Watch pet. (not swaying)Count damage swings 1 2 1 2. On a High skill mob some swings will not hit. About 40 to 60% of the swings do damage. But every time FWW goes off you have a hit in each of those counts. So FWW seems to give 100% chance for the other 2 damages in that count to hit. That is what I sat and watched for many minutes. So a FWW swing does not take the place of another swing. The pet stays on the 1 2 rhythm. The FWW just adds damage tics to the 2 hits. It does not replace one of them.

    Now an Allosaurus 70 resist:
    upload_2019-5-29_21-48-12.png

    The damages are very close to the results with lower Ninja skill.

    Anchisaur:
    upload_2019-5-29_22-34-54.png upload_2019-5-29_22-35-41.png
    Archaeosaurus:
    upload_2019-5-29_22-36-12.png

    The resists were same as last test.

    Arch Showed higher damage at 110 Ninja 31 vs 37
    Anch also showed more damage 31 vs 38.

    60 vs 110 Ninja skill yielded a higher damage increase against low resistance targets. up to 8 points.

    On mobs with 80 or more resistances the damage difference is just 1 or 2 points.

    T Rex resist was 88. The previous one was 90.
    upload_2019-5-29_22-48-35.png
    The results were a .5 damage increase.
     
    #4 Pawain, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  5. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    Now I decided to see how much damage FWW does to a second target.

    I chose Allos but they have too many HP to see an advantage.

    Pics at 5 min. 9 min showing FWW damage 10 minutes
    upload_2019-5-29_22-57-45.png

    The pet was getting hit very often. Most of the pets hit attempts were whiffs.
    The extra damage to the second target was not significant.
    Ill need to find a lower HP target to test on.

    I rounded up other Dino types. No Allos, they were being used for training. Sess had the Dimes.

    The FWW showed a lot more damage to the surrounding Mobs. I killed 2 groups of 5 to 6 mobs.
    It kills the lower HP mobs very effectively. No Pics...

    Clearly a better area spell than any others.
     
    #5 Pawain, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
  6. PlayerSkillFTW

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    I have a FWW+PB Najasaurus with 120 Ninjitsu. Against an Archeosaurus with 2 Physical Resist, his FWW did 5 ticks of damage, 37, 27, 43, 31, 36, for 174 damage total.
     
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  7. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    Cool. Mine is in the 90s now. I guess 5 ticks is it then. Hard for me to see them since they go by quickly and have another damage mixed in.
     
  8. SouthPaw

    SouthPaw Lore Master

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    I wonder how much damage an armor ignore (without Chiv) would hit the same mob for assuming 700 Str and max base damage. Any ideas?
     
  9. Khaelor

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    Because you don't know how to use it.




    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Some things to remember about frenzied whirlwind.

    1. unlike AI, it does not replace the normal attack.
    2. it costs 20 mana vs 30 mana, so a pet will be able to cast 12 a minute vs 8 from AI (talking about a pet working off of purely mana regen)
    3. it's physical damage, so you want it against lower hitpoint or physically weak mobs
    4. the amounts of time it hits will vary, it will hit each mob in its range for the the individual ticks.
    6. its not a debuff on the mob, so you are aoeing and more mobs come into the fray while FWWing, those mobs will be hit by the remaining ticks.
    7. it can overwrite itself, if it casts a second fww while the first is still going off. (AI can do the same)

    Sample of attacks of my FWW dragon on Dreadhorn (red is a fww, grey is normal attack)

    38 178 22 31 21 194 47 17

    two normal attacks while the fww is ticking for a total of 176 damage. If you combine the FWW damage with the first autoattack, an armor ignore would have to do 354 damage to match it.

    38 34 23 165 : 260 total damage, 95 fww

    With EoO up:

    (pic is missing the last 3 fww hits of 29 36 and 47 due to the numbers scrolling)
    [​IMG]
    31 249 32 51 30 29 36 47: 249 normal hit damage plus an additional 257 from frenzied whirlwind, meaning an armor ignore would have to hit for 506.



    Yes, you don't get the big single hit numbers as AI, but in the right circumstances FWW will outdamage AI on single target mobs. Remember if you can get resists to below 10% Armor Ignore ends up being a dps loss compared to a normal hit. FWW will end up being additional damage on top of the normal hits.

    I tried to include some screen captures from some videos i did of FWW, unforuntately it cannot capture all the ticks clearly.

    We have used FWW pets extensively since the Patch 97 with great results because we know where they are most effective.

    Are tritons a good pet for FWW? depends what you are doing with it. For single target dps, not really due to its split damage.

    I seem to recall a website that has pet damage calculators~
     
    #9 Khaelor, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  10. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    I doubt I will be able to find a place where I can get very many targets in a 2 square area around my pet. Other than the slime pit. My non FWW was one chomping the mages so he could do that faster than I could gather a crowd for him. Sorry Cus can kill **** so well there without FWW.

    I do know how to use it but, I am not quick enough at clicking to get a crowd of things around a pet. It would take longer for me to do that than the pet could kill them one at a time. And my Thunderstorm and chain lightning is better than the FWW at early spawn. There is a spawn I would like FWW to work better than my area spells.

    That is why I started with single targets.

    #6 was the only one I had not seen.

    I can already tell the Damage is close to and maybe more than AI on a single target. But I want to get the skill to 110 and show #s. The things I fight normally will not have 10% Phy resist.

    FWW and scroll costs 700 points. AI costs 100 points.
    You have to have room on the pet and determine if it is worth the higher cost.

    Also have to determine where you will use it to get the benefit of the multi targets added to single.

    Since many Tritons can get this and have a good build it will be a useful build because the point cost does not matter. So you can take them anywhere the main Targets Phy resist is one of the lower ones.

    Will work great at Travesty.

    Is there a specific range of FWW hits? Like 5 to 8?
     
  11. PlayerSkillFTW

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    Against a 2 Physical Resist opponent, AI would be a waste. You'd end up doing less damage with an AI than a normal hit then.

    I use my FWW+PB Najasaurus at Champs and Void Pool. Did the Bedlam Champ with him recently, and he did great. His complete Poison immunity allowed me to stand far back away from the Fetid Essences as he killed them. He also does great at the Dragon Turtle Champ, but once it spawns Allosaurus and Dimetrosaurs, i'll switch to my Frost Mite.

    He's King of the Void Pool too, especially in later waves. I'm #1 in Overall Total Score on Atlantic for the Void Pool, due to my FWW+PB Najasaurus being able to tank and AoE down everything there. I run Consume Damage on him so he basically can't die there, and he just continuously aggros everything nearby with his FWW and PB. At later waves, i just plop him in front of the entrance to the Void Pool itself, and let him intercept all the waves that are coming from both sides.
     
    #11 PlayerSkillFTW, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  12. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    I wont be doing Bedlam unless I have a Death Craving. But I will try him at Dragon Turtle. That will be one of my first stops for multi target testing. I kill the dinos one at a time so he can stay. He will have Chiv by then.

    I have never done the Void Pool. Our #s are very old. Nobody goes there as a group or alone. I do have an old rune book that has spots in Covetous marked.
     
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  13. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Grand Inquisitor
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    The Bedlam spawn isn't that bad. I find the Twisted Glade spawn to be worse, all things considered, especially the Paragon Raging Grizzly Bears, LOL.

    Good thought about the Turtle spawn! That would be an excellent place for me to check out how my Chiv/FWW Triton does .
     
  14. PlayerSkillFTW

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    Remember though, that if the pet uses EoO, then it starts taking double damage from every other type of mob, which is pretty terrible at champs. Not to mention Divine Fury lowering the pet's DCI. Why Chiv+FWW on a pet doesn't mix well.
     
  15. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Grand Inquisitor
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    A Chiv/FWW pet doesn't use Divine Fury :), and maybe I am lucky, but I have never had a problem with my Chivalry pets staying alive at spawns.

    EDIT: My Chiv/FWW Triton just cracked 88 Ninjitsu, and I am liking the damage it is doing. He has been to the roof a few times and does really well there.
     
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  16. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Grand Inquisitor
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    [email protected]! I had a brain cramp, and somehow had it in my head that Divine Fury was a NINJITSU spell! It will use it, but anyhow, still no problems with keeping them alive. :)
     
  17. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    Added testing at 110 Ninja to the top of thread.
     
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  18. Khaelor

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    Forgot to post this days ago, in case anyone still cares:

    [​IMG]

    So breaking this down, the pet was attacking Virgil, in two seconds it did 256 damage to him. 163 in normal hits and 93 with frenzied whirlwind. If you combine it with a normal hit for comparisons sake, 180 hit (fww +base hit) plus 90~ damage to each of the other 8 pirates in a 2 second span for 20 mana.

    We do the bar in a group and tank it all at once. We do not use Chiv/FWW here because Chiv's dispel evil will cause the pirates to run which decreases the effectiveness of the FWW. You also will probably need consume damage to tank the whole room at once when doing it with multiple people.

    Do voidpool on Chesapeake. I take a fww unicorn instead of a naja. My single pool record is something along the lines of 42k.



    Congrats on testing FWW 2 years later Pawain after spending those 2 years telling people how you weren't impressed by the ability. :thumbsup:
     
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  19. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    Thanks for the compliment! I will still not use it on those mages. Maybe the hound area would be a better choice.
     
    #19 Pawain, May 30, 2019
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
  20. Obsidian

    Obsidian Crazed Zealot
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    So what magic or other special pairs nicely with FWW? Disco to reduce physical damage?

    I have a Chiv/FWW Lesser Hiryu that has been serving me well in champs. I started with a FWW/Goo Cu Sidhe, but I didn't think it had the kick for the newer spawns. This lesser is pretty mean. It was an 8646 total intensity build.
     
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  21. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    Multi Target testing:

    Works great in crowds of low level spawn if you can gather them.

    upload_2019-6-1_12-13-5.png upload_2019-6-1_12-13-38.png

    upload_2019-6-1_12-14-8.png upload_2019-6-1_12-14-43.png

    upload_2019-6-1_12-15-38.png

    Most total damaging area spell when you can get it surrounded.
     
  22. Khaelor

    Khaelor Certifiable
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    He has seen the light! Praise the taming gods!
     
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  23. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    Any calculator of FzWW damage as to how it scales with Ninjitsu skill? Like for Ninj 50 the mini damages to X-mob of defense=70 Wres= 80 etc are 15, with a total of 60, and fon Ninj 120 mini damages to Mob with Parry 100, Wres 100 are 25-35 with a total of 150 etc etc?

    Any idea if there is a calculator as to about how Ninjitsu scales with Fzz damage? For Ninjitsu 50 vs 100 vs 120?

    Also In a Triton with 100 Poison and Poison Breath AoE, would FzWW benefit from Chiv? How would such a pet fair, i.e. Chiv/Fzz/Poison breath? Anyone tried that?
    Or option Chiv/AI/Poison breath?
     
    #23 celticus, Jun 2, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
  24. Suetonious

    Suetonious Visitor
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    i have used two dogs one ai and one fzz. I typically use them for spawns... Really only the boss. AI dog, typically out dps the fzz single target. Damage distribution is displayed by khaelor, yet that distribution is relative. If you are effective at droping phys resist fzz starts to become increasingly effective. I have had alot of fun with resist manipulation two boxing. I have a tamer pair with two fire beetles one inferno one runic co. The tamers: one has disco one has necro for corpse skin. Its a fun duo. Im working on two dogs for the treasure hunting patch. I have made one tamer a dedicated treasure hunter, wiht only taming and t-hunting relative skills. The other char is going to be eval, provo tamer. Both dogs are disco dogs with fzz. I think this combo will work nicely.
     
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  25. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    Are both dogs Chiv ?
     
  26. Suetonious

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    No neither had chiv on my spawning dogs. Although I have two chiv dogs with ai that i would use on the roof. With the spawn changes I have switched them out for two fzz dogs, with chiv. They work well, Im still not convinced they do the dmg the ai dogs did tho. As I said before, when comparing the outputs of fzz and of ai, resist is all that really matters. If the pets dmg is favorable and the targets resist is low, then fzz can have the advantage. What exactly the distribution has to be to make them equal would be interesting to know. My real problem with fzz isnt its damage, its the fact that it costs 600 points, scroll included. That is 6x the cost of ai. While fzz definitely shines when pet is surrounded its tough to justify 500 extra points, especially on a stretched thin pet already. If they made fzz pet damage type instead of physical it would certainly make fzz worth it.
     
  27. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    I agree, and that would be awesome if it happened. It would make sense.
    I think the pet routines most likely are just copies of the players routines for FZZ, Chiv etc. with mods tweaked for the pets. So they would not have to change FZZ for the entire playerbase. It would take a little programming but should be not to hard to program. Also makes sense : A frost beetle with cold damage, Frost Drake, Fire Beetle etc etc : Pet damage specific Fzz nice touch! For pets with split damage split the damage also for Fzz, etc.
    Also we know about how Chiv/AI spec mostly does, and know about 100 Chiv effect vs 120 Chiv effect. But have not seen much of a formula or some type of estimate for FzZ damage with 100 Ninjitsu vs 120 Ninjitsu, and that would be interesting to see also.
     
  28. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    So according to the wikis, EoO from Chiv in spawns will deal up to 84% more damage to all the same type mobs that it was cast on initially, so pretty buffy when used with Fzz, does it work this way? Ty for info. Never tried an Fzz/Chiv pet.
     
  29. North_LS

    North_LS Journeyman

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    everyone is gonna have a different playstyle here, but for spawns, i find it a lot more effective to handle AoE for lower level mobs with the tamer and not the pet. I set the pet up for killing the champ as quickly as possible and just let it wander while i go through the first few levels of spawn myself. Final spawn level takes so few kills to progress, AoE isnt really needed. I run a necro tamer for spawns, but understand that tstorm or hailstorm work well also.
     
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  30. Draza

    Draza Journeyman

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    I have dogs with goo, fww and mystic for spawning.
    Mass sleep and cleansing wind is awesome for low level. I can run around and clear ares while my dog solos