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From what I read here, suggestions for pvp/faction changes.

Discussion in 'UO Origin' started by Coragin, Jun 15, 2009.

  1. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    Well after reading our board here and the faction board, I see there are common complaints on both boards. I will try and make this quick.

    Before I do, I dont claim to have ALL the answers or that my suggestions are 100 percent complete. If you feel like adding to, taking away from or revising any of my ideas, please do. I am starting this thread for input to better the game, not call names and argue, so please only constrictive replies, no petty bickering or trash talking.

    1. Trammies with faction items and never pvp
    2. House hiding
    3. Percentage Ranking and not being able to move up in rank. (tram point farmers)
    4. Kill points for assisting, not just got kill shot.

    1 Trammies:

    This is relativly easy to solve. From what I read, people are complaining and suggesting that faction pvp items not be able to be used in tram. This is just stupid. Some of us dont want to constantly change suits. If you change the point system to be fair and not farmable, this wont be an issue. If a trammie wants to farm points and silver to get the items, let them. But, the point and rank system needs to be changed big time to better balance this issue. Conclusion, revamp the kill point and rank system.

    2. House Hiding

    This seems to be a big issue with pvp'rs. It seems to me, it is relatively easy to fix too. If you are a criminal (or in a pvp battle), you cannot enter a house unless it is open to the public. Also, you wont be able to use doors or teleporters in said house unless those doors and teleporters are also public useable.

    3. Tram point farmers and ranks.

    This requires something simple. Allow me to explain. Trammies like to have the items as well. I dont care about this. I think we all will agree though that point farmers are a problem with the current system. Here is how I would fix it. Change it from a percentage of people can get the top rank to you need "X" points for "X" rank. Any amount of players can be any rank. That is fair and just to trammies wanting the items and the pvp community.

    4. Kill Points

    This was mentioned on the factions board that one guy was redlining people and someone would jump out of hiding and deliver a killing blow and get the points for the kill. I can understand this, its not fair. I would fix it like they do with looting monsters to multiple attackers. Killing a person gives "X" points, call it 10 (yes I know its a large number, fixing this would go hand in hand with fixing rank system) so if 10 people are attacking each gets one. Two are attacking, each gets 5. But, only if both did 50 percent dmg. In a change like this you need to work points out by total dmg delivered by each person and points will be divided up based on amount of damage dealt per person. Of coarse the killer or killers would have to still be on the same sub server to prevent cheating. And percentage based to prevent Joe Trammie from stealthing around, magic missle people and then hide again and stealth around some more. I know its not a perfect solution, but I believe its a step in the right direction. Together, I think we can all come up with proper solutions to all the problems to present to EA for suggestion.

    Personally, I would like to see last target wipped from the client if you run off screen and have life bars disappear if you run off screen. Would prevent run off screen heal and run back ect.

    And how long does that damn stat drop last from being killed? And why did I get it from my pet killing me? (oops my bad for attacking my dragon LOL)

    Well, lets discuss....

    (remember, this is a discussion thread, please no attacks, name calling ect, be creative and be courtious.)
  2. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    1. No

    2. No

    3. No

    4. No.

    Ok now ill explain why.

    1.) The only thing i agree with is yes, its easily solved. If "trammies" want the rewards that come from the RISK of Factions, then they have to take the RISK. Faction PvP becomes allowed on all shards and that includes stat loss.

    2) This is your sollution to house hiding?? THATS HOW IT IS NOW!

    3) As number 1 in essence except, the reward should come from actively participating in factions. If, people want to hold points on there smiths fine, but if that smith with 5k points is in trammel they are freely attackable. This would sort out the ranking system fine(providing the points get wiped before implementation)

    4) Nice idea, im not completely against this but it just seems to complicated. Yes i agree its annoying as hell to lose a faction kill to a stealth archer...but...**** happens :)
  3. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    1. I have no problem with it being on all facets, with ONE exception and only one. Excludes Dungeons and Tram Champ spawns. And here is my reason, regarding ish. Paragon Balrons, Bloods, GD ect. Some people want to hunt and these creatures make it so you cant run away, they are too fast and hit wayyy to hard. The reason they made the Tram facet was because people would grief others horribly. I can see it now, "Hey lets go see if anyone is killing swoop or misama and gank them with our stealthers". Same with champ spawns. As long as it excluded dungeons and champs, Im cool with that. But, you and I both know, there are pvp'rs that normally stay in fel, that would come out to high end dungeons just to gank people and grief them when they already got a badass monster on them. The few bad apples would ruin it all. Same goes for the point farmers, they are the few bad apples that are ruining it.

    2. Well if you can follow someone into a house now if they are in combat with you, where is the problem? I was under the understanding you could not follow someone into a house and they would hide there and heal up ect then come back.

    3. I agree you should have to actively participate 100%. Maybe a faster decay rate of points? And higher decay rate if you have a ton of points. Make it a percentage a week, like 10-25% per ranks 1-9 and 40% for rank 10. At least that would offset not pvping in tram.

    Good post, and I agree faction pvp would be fun in tram, if it was in designated areas and didnt effect other members of the guild (like RP mules, craftsman ect) I know I would not want to be out mining and find an ambush on my craftsman who has NO offensive at all. And all because my guild is in a faction and Im on an alt.

    OR maybe allow your guild members to switch off factions (this would be permanent) and they dont have to participate at all. Of coarse then there would be no rewards for factions for that guild member. Then we have to work out something for gimp healers with factions off.

    Faction pvp in tram! But in designated areas only.

    Towns but NOT inside banks or shops (outside is fine) or just banks. I know I dont wanna be coming back to town after a long hunt to have my bag of loot stolen cause someone killed me while I was banking.

    And not in dungeons or champs for the above reasons and this one. Tram was created and is here to stay, and sometimes people just want to relax in the mind numbing of pvm, I know sometimes I do, just kill bloods or balrons for honor and sacrifice.

    There is a time and a place for everything, tram dungeons and tram champs isint the place. The whole reason I dont do Fel champs is just for one reason, raids! And they ALWAYS wait until the champ is about to spawn. Its total BS. If they did allow it in champs, I say add PS to tram champs and harrower and also change they way they are given to players from overall dmg to the champ to overall dmg to the ENTIRE progression of the spawn and 5% of that from the champ. That way even if it is raided as the champ spawns the people that put in the work to do the spawn still get the reward, dead or not. And that would get rid of greedy pvp'rs from doing it just to get lewts. After all, pvp has no ettiqite (sp?), "Oh they are working this spawn and almost done, lets not be *****" faction pvp should not be like regular pvp in that aspect.

    Thats what I think, but I also know a lot of loopholes exist in what I am suggesting. Like people running into dungeons or champ spawn areas to hide ect. I know its not a flawless idea, but something like it should be done to keep tram semi jerk free in that aspect. Make faction pvp be about honor.

    Hell even make a "This will flag you a criminal" type pop up when you are attacked and when you do attack in tram. If you click yes pvp will be enforced on you for a minimum amount of time 1 hour or something. I dont know, like I said in my first post, I dont have all the answers or even the right answers, but maybe from ideas we all share we can come up with something workable that will not interfere with the current tram rules too too much. My guild is ALL tram, none of them will even join a faction I asked for it since I didnt want to leave the guild to do factions. But, a lot didnt want it even though they dont even go to Fel. I even tried to tell them it would not effect them at all unless they were in Fel and even then it would work in their favor as most likely fellow faction members would not attack you, in essence lowering the amount of potential attackers, not raising it. So I had to drop some of my char from the guild just to do factions.

    Oh well. Thoughts?
  4. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    The way you worded your post about house hiding was that once you attacked you are flagged out of a house. That hapens, if you flag on someone you cannot enter a house use the doors or containers. The problem is if you attack inside your house you can just remain inside. Obviously you cannot enter a private house you are not accessed to at any time. To change that would be insane. The only way to fix this could possibly be that if you flag in a house, you are removed.

    With the no attacking at champs in fel, why not?? Only faction chars doing the tram spawns(kinda the whole problem) would be attackable by factioners looking to PK. Thats the risk of being in factions, you accept that risk by remaining in the faction guild.
  5. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    Yes remove them from the house then if they attack you outside. As far as champs, then do my suggestion.

    "If they did allow it in champs, I say add PS to tram champs and harrower and also change they way they are given to players from overall dmg to the champ to overall dmg to the ENTIRE progression of the spawn and 5% of that from the champ. That way even if it is raided as the champ spawns the people that put in the work to do the spawn still get the reward, dead or not."

    That way people that are in it to pvp as they say they are, they would gain nothing from raiding a few people doing a champ spawn except some silver. Cause even if they DID raid at the end (like they ALWAYS do, cause they are too lazy to work the spawn themselfs) they would get nothing. After all, its all about pvp right? Not the phat lewts? It would stop griefing. There has to be some give and take here if you wanted it in Tram. It cannot take on the whole Fel ruleset. Right now, trams have the option to pvm or pvp at their own leisure. I like that I can work on skills, farm gold, work honor and stuff up and not have to look over my shoulder all the time or be wacked by someone looking to just mess with someone. If I want to pvp I goto Fel, if I DONT want to, I hunt in tram, except when Im farming silver, which is much better through pvp lol, but if no one is on, I hunt faction monsters and I expect someone to show up, even if no one ever does.

    Gotta be some give and take here, EA is not gonna just say okay your in factions, its not open in tram too and then open the flood gates. They just wont, we both know it. Tram would have to be a bit more confined than the current free for all that Fel is. And we both know every jerk out there who only has reds would be deleting something just so they can join a faction and come to tram to get their rocks off of killing non pvp guild mates (Craftsman, Miners, Lumberjacks, Ect). And dont say they wouldnt, you know most reds are just jerks who kill for no reason what so ever and they try to defend killing the miner by saying "But Im a murderer". Which they already knew they could kill said miner with ease, they would do it just to **** off the guy mining and ruin his play time. There is no place in faction pvp for that. There NEEDS to be some kind of code of honor on Tram facet, not a free for all bloodbath!

    Now dont get me wrong I am all for Faction pvp in Tram, I would enjoy it. But some people have alts in the guild who dont do anything but craft, should they leave all their friends and not be able to communicate with them because of factions? I dont think so. In times of war, a vehicle or person with a red cross is considered neutral and do not attack the hospital personal. Something similar would have to be implimented. Tram isint Fel, I vote yes for faction pvp, but no to mindless senseless killing for no reason. There has to be some form on conduct and honor. Heck make battlefields! Arenas, some dungeons the monsters reap better rewards but you can attack there, I dont know.

    All I am saying is, there would have to be some form of control and restraint in Tram or it will turn into Fel and you will see a drastic decline in our already low numbers for pvp factions. Like I stated earlier, I go pvp in Fel, but when I want to just do my own thing and kill monsters or whatever, I dont do it in Fel. Because there is always a jerk just coming to ruin my relax time. Tram is my relax, Im on my pain meds time and sleepy. Fel is my fun time.

    If they can come up with a way to make it so there is no grief killing and doing it to take over phat lewts at champ spawns, I am all for it. Also make it so people in my guild who choose NOT to faction pvp can remain in the guild and not be forced to pvp, that would be great.
  6. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    No way on adding PS's to tram...FULL STOP.

    This isnt about tram and fel. Its about Factions. Factions are factions they are a totaly different animal to Tram/fel.

    Unfortunatly...yes, if your a trammy in a faction you run the risk. The second you join factions you accepted that risk. If you dont like it you can leave and still communicate through vent/icq.

    The risk of being in factions should carry over, a non-afk miner can easily see an orange pop on screen and recall out. An afk miner deserves everything they get. Sorry if it sounds like im trying to inflame a debate, i just dont see any reason why a person in factions shouldnt run the risk of factions.

    Another option if this happens(which your right...it wont) is to do as darwin says and adapt.

    "Survival is ultimately dependent on the ability to change and evolve"

    Edit: an even better quote:

    “It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.”
  7. A nice fix to the house hiding while in combat would be this... yes, if you flag while you are in a house, you get removed from the house, same as if you have a pet and you flag with the pet, it should remove you and the pet as well.
    It wont happen though.
    It would suck esp. if you are alone in a house and you have 5 or 6 people outside your door waiting for you and a few of them are flagged on you and you try to fight back, if you reflag or flag on someone you would get thrown out and automatically ganked by all 5 or 6 outside. On the other side, you have the option to recall or hide in the house till they leave, next thing you know there are posts all over the pvp thread about how bad you suck cause you left or because you hid and in that case they grief you when they do see you again in game. Same way as it is now already, so it wouldnt change much.

    The rest of the stuff about factions and all that, I will leave to you guys cause its really not a subject I want to get into. I will say this though, if they ever start giving out powerscrolls for Ilish spawns, I will find a way to "raid" the trammies who are doing them. There is a way to "raid" them now to get the replicas and SoTs, but the rewards just arent good enough to waste the time.