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Discussion in 'UHall' started by Zyon Rockler, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Can we please change the housing system so that houses fall depending on the time a player has played? Not that a house stays standing for 3 months because someone activates an account just to have a house stand there.

    If a character is 1 year old or the account, then the house could stand for 1 month after the account goes inactive.

    If the character is 2 years old, the house could stand for 2 months after the account goes inactive and so on...

    This way we award people who play, rather than the people who take advantage of the players who invest their time and money into a game.

    If the account is less than a year old the house should go immediately into IDOC, giving the 1 year old time to reactivate the account before the house falls. At 1 year, they would have a month.

    The way the system is now, is really starting to eerk me. People keep placing these houses that block our houses, make our houses look like crap, do some kind of crappy, dumb design that is so fungooed the designers of the game should not have even allowed such combinations.

    Anyhow, it makes my beautiful house look like garbage and they don't even play! Now, if they were actually paying, like I pay, then I wouldn't have a problem but as far as these Doll Houses go, I would really like to see something done.

    You guys might not mind these people who take advantage of the system but I really do. If the house is empty and I don't see a player in it then it's just taking up space for another would-be-player like me who actually plays and pays!
  2. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    If someone is paying and they have a house then whether they play or not its doing you a favour. While people pay monthly or w/e then EA keep the game going. If all these people lose the houses they quit and eventually no one is left in the game and EA call time.
  3. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    I really don't understand that logic at all. You've missed the entire point.

    If they are paying to play, then they should be in the game playing, being part of the community.

    What they do is pay for 1 month but they get 3 months, to have a house standing. That means that a player who is willing to pay and play is unable to get a house because of all the Doll Houses.

    How does it do me a favor to have a bunch of empty houses in an Online Game that is supposed to have community? Why don't we call it, Empty House Online? I'll just stop playing the game and just reactivate my account every 3 months, just to keep my house standing.

    So, if I have 4 accounts, you're saying, I would be doing the game a favor by not paying and just reactivate my account just to keep my house standing. That doesn't make sense.

    That house space is a place where you would get money from every month. So, how are they doing me a favor by only paying once every 3 months and on top of that, taking up a house space. I don't see the logic and I definately don't need any favors.

    I pay real money, I expect the other players to do the same thing. That's the bottom line, anything else is a bunch of BS!
  4. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    This is an outstanding idea. I will just buy 3-90 day codes and play UO from mid to late Sept till mid to late Dec and never worry about my houses ever again. I have 3 accounts and all 3 are 10yr plus. I get all the aniv. gifts, halloween, turky day and xmas.

  5. Fresley

    Fresley Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 17, 2008
    Likes Received:
    You would advocate the game possibly losing subscriptions in the form of virtual rent?

    There are plenty of housing spots available. If you are having problems finding one, you aren't looking.

    I keep my subscription up even when I take extended breaks. Failing at the 90 day house decay game might be enough for me to quit permanently. I won't try and dictate whether or not someone else can choose to play it just so that I can have a chance at their housing spot or more likely their IDOC loot.
  6. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Feb 20, 2006
    Likes Received:
    Zyon His point is if a player is paying for the account EA could give a fig less if they log in or not. They still get paid, and the game goes on....

    The way players deco a home is their choice... no matter how beautifull or ugly it is. You or I can nto tell them not to put 20 different wall types up on one side and 1 on the other...
    And yes I have seen houses with far worse...

    As for the house placer not paying..... well to be frank to get a house one much pay Ea to get account. Now if they only play 30 days and walk off... 90 days later you get to get rid of that eyesore... but right now all bets are off till the migration is done and the stuff hits the fans when houses start to fall in ernest.
  7. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    What you guys have to understand, first of all, is that they are not paying. The words NOT PAYING, don't just dismiss that.

    By making them play the game and having a 1 year old account, to earn that 1 month, makes sense. It's logical because the person has invested that much money and time to earn that 1 month.

    At 2 years they would have 2 months. Again, this makes sense because they have to pay more money to keep the house standing and they're granted more time as a reward.

    At 3 years, they will have what we have now. The ability to pay for 1 month and not have to worry about their house for 3 months.

    The logic is, if a person has a 10 year old account, who has been playing for 10 years or who has payed for 10 years, has earned the right to take off 10 months or have up to 10 months, that could be the maximum.

    It just makes sense because now the veteran who has already invested that much is getting the free time.

    The way it is now, people are just taking advantage of the system. They're not earning anything and because space is limited, it hurts the game.

    For example: If I wanted to place a castle, I can't do it because of all the Doll Houses and ironically, it's people who aren't even playing. People that aren't even paying who are stopping me, a player who has earned the right.

    So, all this system would do, is cause people to have to actually pay to earn the right to have a house, rather than placing a bunch of empty homes, without even paying for the time those houses stand.
  8. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    You think that vets wouldn't take advantage of the system? Seriously?

    With all of the accounts I have on my own or have been given by others, I could plop down an additional half dozen houses that would have 9+ months of free time under your system, and some people have access to a lot more accounts.
  9. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    May 26, 2008
    Likes Received:
    They haven't/can't even fixed housing that people haven't payed for in up to a decade so yeah, good luck!
  10. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    If it was just me putting together this system, then I would keep working on it until all of the bugs were out but there should be a team of experts who work for EA that should be able to do it in no time.

    There would be no way for a vet to take advantage of the system. Let's say you're 10 years. Your account goes inactive. You're unable to pay for 3 months. You reactivate your account, you come back into UO and your house is still there. You weren't worried about your house falling though because you still have another 7 months.

    At 11 years, it's now your anniversary. Everyone celebrates because you actually play the game. Also, EA thanks you and adds 1 more month. You now have 8 months.

    OMG, a terrible tragedy. Your house burns down and UH OH, UO becomes inactive. They send you a DON'T RESPOND but you're not able to get it because everything you own is now gone.

    Luckily, 7 months later, you have rebuilt your house and have replaced your computer. You've just downloaded UO and you're not worried in the least of losing your house because you still have 1 more month.

    So, you're welcomed back by the community, everyone is happy that you've come back. A veteran player who plays the game and who pays for it, who is respected by his peers and you are thankful to EA and its' community and you're happy that you didn't lose your home due to tragedy.

    So, in this scenario, the veteran player used the time that they earned, in a time of need. Not having any more time left though, or not much time left, they would have to earn more time before another tragedy like that could befall them.

    Now, would it not be ashame to allow some dipstick who is taking advantage of the system the way it is now, to be able to keep their ghost house that they're not paying for but to destroy a veteran's home who has had tragedy in their lives?
  11. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    You're talking about a company that laid off UO and Camelot developers when Warhammer crashed and burned.
    I'm a vet who owns and has inherited a ton of accounts that are 9 years or old. I placed a bunch of 18x18s and even a keep or two on those accounts

    Oops, I "accidentally" removed all of the billing information, oh no my accounts are going inactive and I only have between 9-13 months to reactive those accounts, whatever shall I do!

    I know, I will go back in and add all of my billing information.

    Oops, I keep forgetting to reactivate those accounts until just a month or so before the houses fall.....
  12. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    So hold on I have a tragedy befall me and I lose my 8 months of time I earnt and say I then become ill or whatever...my house falls because I can't play but I'm still paying for the sub....in what universe is that fair to me?
  13. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    May 26, 2008
    Likes Received:
    One idea would be to throw all the math and adjustments out teh door. And have the 7 day decay timer start the day the account expires.
    I don't have a lot of faith that anything else could be programmed without wiping out a lot of houses :p

    And I'm talking about the payment expires. If you are paying the account and only log in once a year, who cares? this way you at least have to pay the same amount as a player ;)
  14. Neutron Bomb

    Neutron Bomb Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Sep 28, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I pay a monthly fee for this game. I sometimes take 3-6 month breaks at a time. I continue to pay to keep my house up. I don't care if you want a castle where my house is or not, I'm still paying my dues.

    I like the current system :danceb:
  15. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Probably the best would be to have the house decay as soon as payment stopped. So, the house would go through its' stages. Maybe a 5 day grace period, i'm not sure how long it takes for a house to fall. So, that would give you some time to reactivate.

    The system would be for example: You open an account and you pay for the first month. That month you're given credit for. So, if you play that entire year and you pay for every month, you will have earned 12 months of paid play.

    One year of paid play is equal to one month of no pay for one month.

    So, during this time, you cannot log in because you're not paying but the month that you have credit for is used automatically to preserve your home. After that, if you still haven't reactivated, it would enter the 5 day decay stage.

    So, if you have 10 years that your account has been active, so that's 120 months that were paid, you now have credit to 10 months.

    So, if a person stops paying and can no longer log in, those months begin to be used for each month the account is inactive.

    If a person pays for that month then the time is not used. The account has to be inactive for it to use the months that you've earned.

    It would not matter if you had 1,000 accounts that you have active with houses on them because this would be a different issue and a different topic. A solution for this would be, more space or more land to place homes. It has nothing to do with a person paying to keep a house while another does not.
  16. :talktothehand: pfffft! Your "math" & "premise" are screwy

    A) ain't happening ... If anything ...
    back to one month grace only ...

    Every penny in >at this point< = more pennies FOR UO.

    What >everyone else< DOES with the time their pennies bought = none of your business.

    B) ain't happening ... BUT If anything ...
    2 weeks grace after a one month sub expires
    6 weeks grace after a 3 month game time expires
    12 weeks grace after a 6 month game time expires

    1 weeks grace after a one month sub expires
    2 weeks grace after a 3 month game time expires
    3 weeks grace after a 6 month game time expires

    ^accessible to everyone that pays to play^
    first month to 168 months ... same same
    paid x months ... get .5 xmonths grace

    IF you really want to "free up unused space" :thumbsup: A) and B) and B.1) does that
    + need to finally get actual unused un-audited housing OFF shards also.

    Oh! and going all the way out of grace? A) and B) and B.1) << maintain a paid for(earned) grace.
    Now ... IF your years = months earned ALSO meant
    10 year account, goes all the way out of "grace" ++ Account age = zero months ...
    maybe ...

  17. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    This is the big thing.

    You don't need a fancy system that goes off of how long an account has been active.

    You just need to truly IDOC all of the thousands of homes that should have fallen years ago.
  18. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Well i'm surprised we're finally getting somewhere. I'm really surprised whose getting us there. No, i'm just joking.

    First of all, I understand why you guys get the impression that I want people to be actually at the keyboard. I don't and if you've read the post carefully you would see the word or. People that play or pay. Basically meaning people that have paid.

    You have to be alittle misleading to understand what people are missing and what people aren't. At least when you're as slow as I am at getting people to understand.

    The only problem that I have with that type of system, even though it is definately a solution, is that it doesn't reward the veteran player. I just don't think it does them justice. They deserve more. These people have invested 10 years plus, they should not have to worry about their home falling. At least not like someone who only played for one year.. Play meaning paid.

    I mean even a new account should have at least that five days. I also think a six month should have some time like two weeks. I don't really care so much about that as much as I do someone having to pay where others do not.:D
  19. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    You have no idea if the person is playing the 120 day game or paying every month for thier account. An old guild mate has a castle and we have not seen or heard from him in years. But now and then things change in the castle. As long as he is paying then he has a right to keep his castle.
  20. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    You're right, I don't know and I would like to eliminate that. I want to know for sure that if I see a house, I know that someone is paying for it.

    That way when I see a slab, I know I can say to myself, this player is so foolish for paying for something and not even enjoying it, rather than thinking to myself, could it be this person is not paying.

    Also, the housing system needs some type of reset that will drop all of the houses that are not being paid for at this time. That way, they can decide if more space is needed on some shards or get a better idea of why people do not dedicate themselves.

    For example: For every account that I open, I keep open and the reason I keep it open is because I have a house on it. So, I pay every month for each house. Could it be that if everyone did this, they would make more money. After all, I made the decision that I would pay more to get more. So, from my own experience, I would say, Yes they would.

    But now on the other hand, I could just open a few accounts and use them to place houses and then sell them. So, I could just activate that account for one month.

    Or, I could place a couple of houses and just refresh the account every 3 months but I don't think that would be fair to other players who pay every month. It sends the message out that says, I'm being the fool for paying every month, when I could just go inactive and save myself alot of money every year. I could even work this into my budget.

    So, maybe I don't know if they are paying or not but I do know the system allows them not to pay and have a house. So, there ya have it.
  21. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Wiki Moderator Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Jul 16, 2003
    Likes Received:
    The OP's idea isn't that bad if it was applied differently.

    Essentially, CONTIGUOUS time being used for a calculation.

    Step 1: an account's payment history is looked at;
    a. How long has it been continuously paid, with minor lapses allowed (the current situation, and any gaps under 7 days between paid periods, would be considered accidental lapses).
    b. Pay method is immaterial (codes, CC, gifts, etc.)
    c. The length of THAT time is what determines the 1 month per year.
    d. Special exemptions could be applied for to count down time by certain groups (military and activated reservists/NG from any nation, residents of disaster areas, etc.)

    Step 2: If the grace period kicks in for more than 1 week, then the account reverts to "0" on the housing grace counter on the account's next renewal (or the house reaches the fall date, whichever comes first).


    A. Account is continuously paid, for the most part, from October 2003 until November 2011. The only gap in that period is a 4 day gap where a Debit Card expired, that was rectified as soon as it was discovered.
    This account's house would stand for 8 months, but if it went more than a week past the last paid day, when the account is renewed, the house would be back down to 2 weeks (week's grace, plus the collapse timer) until it had been continuously paid for another year.

    B. Account was created in 1999, was inactive from 2001-2004, and for 2 months in the summer of 2008. Account is 9 years old, but would only qualify for a 3-month "house insurance", because of the break in 2008. If the new down time is more than a week, even those 3 months would be lost on account renewal.
  22. :talktothehand: no ... False premise now, not just screwy ...
    you want to eliminate WHAT ... ??? YOU CAN"T eliminate your >uninformed opinion<

    I had a "slab" as you so indelicately named it ... four years plus it was >just< that, and all that YOU could see of it ...
    not only "Paid for" but the Guild and I had a fricking BLAST using it to our design ...

    And here You are ... hanging a lip and worrying about something that :again: ain't none of your business ...
    worrying SO MUCH that now, to "get something done"
    You're putting up screwy proposals to SUIT YOU ... :scholar: tsk!

    You're even ( screwy :coco: ) grasping at straws such as
    :talktothehand: No, quit trying to make UO "suit" your perceptions
  23. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Well I don't work off of illusion. I see things for what they are. You can fill your shard with slabs and you could tell me you like it but that doesn't mean that everyone is going to like it. Grasping for straws is not something you can do as it was an experience.

    For example: Something real, my experience is not an illusion. It's not me standing in a room, reaching up into the air. I'm talking about real things, real systems, not straws.

    You have to understand that I live my life by experience not by others. I don't pretend to know who you are. I know who you are through me.

    Perceptions that are realized, I call it as I see it. I'm looking at something that I see in the physical sense. It's not my own creation. You would be surprised how many times I have been blamed for what is, simply because I am the only one that can see it.

    If I tell you that there is a wall up ahead and not to drive your car into it, i'm telling you what I know. I'm not trying to help you, it's your choice. To place me into a personal situation of what I want is a joke. It's just another way that I can realize your understanding of your own reality.

    It's like you're trying to say, there is no flaw in the housing system and because I say so, there is something wrong with me. It's time you focused on the real problem and start watching where you're going.

    You wanna know what I would do personally with this game? You probably don't because then it would be my idea and my idea would be wrong.

    So, I really don't care because I know at least I tried to do the right thing and I will continue to do the right thing.
  24. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Jul 3, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Be glad EA hasn't forced that you pay by month to keep your house and if you dont you lose your house. EA wants $$$$$$ plain and simple. If they want to make more they could just make players pay each month or lose your stuff once you stop subscribing.

    DaoC housing has rent which I would prefer how it should work in UO.....

    Be glad what I prefer is not happening in UO. Actually the 90 day period before your house goes into IDOC stages is pretty generous imo.

    Now EA wont ever see your suggestion but if you think your idea would float with them I would suggest to contact them with your idea. EA doesn't have time to see these posts and the devs need approvals and well...the DEV's are in hiding of late. Poor Cal........

    Because I disagree with your idea does not mean it's not a good one. I understand the loyalty for longer paying customers and some "bennies" should be rewarded but IMO they do that already with vet rewards.
  25. dude ... you been salting with the booboo? :talktothehand: stop ...

    It is EXTREMELY doubtful that you are actually "seeing things for what they are"
    seeing things ... I'll buy that
    Knowing and fully understanding them? ...Heh! I detect some mis-perceptions

    MOST because you think that what you are "seeing" is the ONLY way they CAN be seen.
    You're telling Me >your opinion< of what you see AND what you think I should not do ...
    From your perspective >that is all you have to work with<

    From mine ... the GAP that is there is just wide enough to clear AND You'll be quite surprised to see me Drive >thru it< unscathed.

    Yet YOU can say, since you don't "like it" >no one should be able to< ... :talktothehand: stop ...
    >I'm willing and allowing< others to go about their business SINCE it really doesn't directly bother MY play ...

    it really shouldn't be a bother for You either ... ESPECIALLY since you do NOT know
    (Player being absent at the time) IF the plot is paid for, IF the player IS "doing anything fun" with it, Or if they have plans ...
    ya got NOTHING to base your opinion ON ...
    From your perspective >that is all you have to work with<

    You ARE deluding yourself, you only HAVE the illusion that you maybe right ...

    On the one hand ... you want unused housing gone ...
    on the other ... you want game generated houses with NPCs for gods sake ... to FILL UP the terrain ...

    /go back to sleep
  26. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

    Nov 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    hahaha I skimmed over one half of this marvel and fall on :

    you been salting with boo boo


    you have a graceful position to the emmissary old man

    you are liked not because you have a clue but because you are honest

    that is what we need round plentiful stewardship.

    I am also seeing a huge change in Zyon's dialog

    di... two poles...

    a.. log.


    end script //

    resume search for truth :next:

    P.S. = after readong the rest of teh story , FD... do you honestly think that the money that is made by having more accounts up goes only to UO ? How much more money do the brokers make, without owing any taxes or any form of duties ?


    yhou yourghselfv pronouncing yourself as a great denunciator of the banking paraxod ?
  27. Striga

    Striga Guest

    One Account? One house in one shard and one in another ... end.
  28. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

    Nov 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    you can't just end a scentence before you began it.... see ?
  29. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Jun 4, 2003
    Likes Received:
    this sounds like a time share scheme :p
  30. Haha, wonder if the OP gets a finder's fee for each house that goes IDOC.
  31. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Well if the current system stays the way it is now, I will be able to have 4 houses and 4 accounts for the price of 1. The way it is now, I pay for 1 account and 1 house but with that same money I can have 4 accounts and 4 houses. All I have to do is make the same character on each account. Just log in that account before the house drops. Let the other account go inactive.

    Maybe this is how it's intended to be. It's not that hard to make a character. It's not like you can't buy the rewards. So, the only thing you really have to gain is, 3 more houses per account. So, for the same money on 4 accounts, I could have 12 houses. So, all I would have to do is set up the characters so that when I go from turning one account to turning another one on it doesn't affect my gameplay.

    That would also give me an extra 20 characters. So, maybe the system is good the way it is. I could have so much more this way and not even have to pay for it. I just wish I would of started doing this from the beginning.
  32. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

    Nov 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I would be careful what I wish for if I were you, as it turns out you better off being poor in wealth and true in your heart.

    Besides there is people who have over 50 accounts and pay all of them.
  33. *ahem* can you play characters on an inactive account?
    Well ... keep working on your "math skills"


    You >could< Have 12 ACCOUNTS for the price of one ... and play each account All year long ... one at a time(of course) .. true.
    over lap a bit ... and co-own #1 - #2 and pass on your accumulated items (non account bound, bank box those)

    at the end of the first year? 12 accounts one month old
    at twelve years, 12 one year accounts ...

    You can "work out" the "overlap" of the houses to practice your math

    Extra credit to work out:
    One 6month auto renew account for a year +
    the above twelve monthlies and their over lapped houses

    How many >unused houses< may accrue?
    Is a house "unused" IF it is "public" ?
  34. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

    Nov 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    hehe old man...

    it's not that fun to do that kind of math :p Zyon is idealising...

    But I appreciate the intention... man you could be mean but you're actually being family oriented AND pg-13...

    Have they gived you a wonderful potion so you can now control your emotions ? :p
  35. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    The idea was to get someone else to do the math. Although, I was looking for the ultimate solution which is actually 2 accounts run in a loop and the more accounts that you use for each is a multiple of 2. So, for 1 account it's 2 houses, 2 accounts it's 4 houses and so on.

    It's better if you make mistakes and let other people correct you by giving them the opportunity to teach they learn better.

    I mean I could just picture 50 people trying to figure out what the hell I was saying but if I had just said it, who would of cared?

    Besides, I don't mind taking a couple hits. I kind of enjoy it but the system as pointed out, it's flawed.

    When you start to get up into the numbers around 10 you start to wonder how many houses there are that are not active.
  36. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Feb 20, 2006
    Likes Received:
    Zyon You cant make someone play just because you want them to.. if they pay for a house and game and dont show up when YOU can see them on is not a good valid reason.

    It does smell of a person who has a Castle spot picked out and has a little dinky house blocking him sound.... not that you do mind you but the hint is there.

    I and many others do cycle accounts that are not majors to conserve money in this hard ecconomic times... not that I or they wouldnt love to have the ability to have them on and not worry about bills. So your pissy some player who might have money troubles and has to cycle a house owner account to keep his/ her head above water and keep their game property?

    You are trying to control others in the way they play and run their life. Plain and simply put.

    As for your "math" I can guarantee you not every player knew of the Brit house thing and I have run a few shards like I did way back when house hunting for placements was big and found only a very small handfull of "unowned" which I marked runes and sent x,ys off to Mesanna for her records. If this is your beef, give it time (uo time that is). UO's Rome was not built in a day... god take magincia for example!!

    We forget the Dev have other people to answer to... The head of Mythic is Bioware co founder and he is not a man to be put off if he asked for something ...
    EA has washed its hands of us to them.
  37. AH! you are under the mistaken impression THAT the math has Not been done
    It >has been<
    It is NOT the system that is flawed ... it is only YOUR perception that it is flawed: is wrong.
    You >are not< the measure of correctness ...
    For yourself ... yes
    for the group/game NO
    The group decides on correctness ... you may participate within

    You will still >need< to "show YOUR work" ... to have any impact ... correctly.
    IF "the idea was to have someone else do it"

    Yooohoooo! I did, and, you are wrong, and You MUST accept it at that ...
    your "idea" is/was realized, you wanted some one else to "doit", tis done ...

    as you are.

    yw and owe me forty quatloo.:danceb::next:
  38. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

    Nov 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I beleive you have just said what he said in other words. :drama: