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How does the huge Classic wow launch relate to that age old question about UO...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Mistura, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    ...will we ever get a classic version of UO?

    I've never played WOW but if you're a gamer it's hard to miss the huge buzz that the recent Classic launch has created.

    It got me thinking about UO and how this big launch might relate to this beloved game.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. ShriNayne

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    It's been asked for many, many times and they just flat out say NO, the problem is that everyone has a different idea of what point in time that 'classic' server would be. Half the people would want pre-Trammel and half would want pre-AoS. Also the team is too small to do that kind of stuff, it's only big enough to nerf t-hunting and make everything more complicated than it has to be.... :p
     
  3. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    Lol, I know right? What were they thinking with the T Hunting updates.

    I realise this question has been asked a countless number of times over the years and it's always been a no. But just found it interesting to see what incredible hype there has been surrounding the WOW classic launch and how well it's doing.

    People can't agree on exactly when time should be frozen for the classic UO server but if they just made an executive decision and chose a time close to Tram introduction, I would have to guess it would generate way more buzz for UO than this endless journey thing idea.

    Also seeing some of these Wow streamers streaming for 16 hours straight reminded me of the good old days of UO when we used to play till 6am and the server kicked us off for the ten minutes maintenance lol.

    Kinda made me a bit jealous to see these wow heads having such a blast :)
     
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  4. Anonymous UOPlayer

    Anonymous UOPlayer Journeyman
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    as i think u know well, this was addressed recently

    Learning from other games...

    i pretty much tore up the arguments for it (especially the folks who think it'd be easy to do), & the pro-custom-rules folks responded with insults & accusations like normal. lol. custom is the right word,classic isn't.

    i doubt the wow 'classic' shards will hold their popularity more than 6 months. we'll see but i doubt it.
     
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  5. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Grand Poobah
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    The people asking for and longing for a classic UO don't realize they're the reason Trammel came about in the first place. You'll see the same comments..."I really miss those days, me and my guildies had a lot of fun...etc".
     
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  6. grimiz

    grimiz Sage
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    Maybe you did, but man, there's so much snark in your posts I can't even bring myself to read it.
     
  7. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Grand Poobah
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    QFT!!!!!!!
     
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  8. Gorath

    Gorath Journeyman

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    Pre-pub 16 is probably what youd be looking for.

    Argument is that the old source code is gone etc.

    Free shards manage to do it though.
     
  9. SlayerofBunnys

    SlayerofBunnys Journeyman
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    I have 2 accounts one is 265 months the other 244 so I have rolled with the punches over the years.

    I lost a house on Ice Island right in front of the mine on the east side when my miner forgot to bank the key, so no I don't want to return to that set of rules.

    Do I want to return to the days when it was nearly impossible to cross the bridge south of Brit moongate because of para fields and Vas Flams? not particularly

    Do I want to have to check the phases of the moons to determine the proper time to step into a moongate so as not be playing destination roulette? Nope

    Do I want to return to the time of no houses so you lived out of your bank box, relying on inns and camping skill for logging purposes? Hoping your friend was on so you could transfer stuff between characters instead of trying to hide the pouch in a bush and hoping no one passed by in the 2-5 minutes? I think not.

    I started Slayer as a sword/parry on the day Catskills went live. I think it was a few months later when it reached 90 that I got a 48 hr ban for trapping a polar bear in the guild keep in order to try to eek out a gain. It wasn't until T2A and Tet keep came along that I was finally able to reach GM by standing in a doorway bashing a balron while bandaiding myself, my 2 cross healing guildies doing the same and 3 other guildies behind them throwing In Vas Mani on me as well more than a few An Corps along the way. While this is one of my favorite in game memories do I want to return to 12-18 months (not hours) of work to GM a skill? NO.

    Would I still be playing if it was still the Fel only ruleset? Obviously that can't be answered with certainty. But it is certain that I have been in game since Oct 97 and have enjoyed the vast majority of my in game experiences. have I been happy with every publish? no. The OOO Colors publish which first introduced invulnerable NPCs was the reason I created my mage, Charlene Foxtrot (basically because I was worried I would be banned for Charlie). Show me another game that is conducive to as many playstyles as UO and I may move on, otherwise I will be here until lights out.
     
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  10. Val-Tur

    Val-Tur Sage
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    "Classic" shards are a great idea. That is until the nostalgia wears off & people starting missing the toys & the special features the regular game has. Classic severs peak "excitement span" is about 6 months to a year from other games message boards that I have seen that have tried this.
     
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  11. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    Remember when draconi back in the day made a test server with "classic" rules to see if the people would like it? it was like full for about a week or two then it was completely empty :D
    Some said it was because it was just a test server so the people did not really commit to it, but the truth was that there is a reason if some stuff is old... let's just say that the "good old days" were good because there was nothing better.
    Most of the people already thinks that the game is overcomplicated as it is (and it actually requires pruning into the dragging and clicking and lots of other outdated mechanics), the "goold old days" were even more messed up...

    Also let's remember that the early years of the game were NOT good as many thinks... remember the absurd lag (while playing with a dial-up connection), the server crashes, the early days of houses with keys, the pain of reagents and no insurance? what about the pk killing you everywhere? well if not then that's what was UO, and why you were probably playing on some freeshard that made things different :D
     
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  12. TheGrimReefer

    TheGrimReefer Certifiable
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    Funny How Mesanna leaves WOW to come to UO and UO takes a dive while WOW blooms. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
     
  13. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Mesanna has been with UO since near inception... where do you get this that she worked at WoW???

    She never worked there she's always been at UO... You people scare me sometimes with the rumors you toss out. Not that I am defending Mesanna but that is just crazy talk.

    Once upon a time, I considered her a "friend"... talked to her on many occasions... while I don't agree with everything that she does... I respect her.
     
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  14. callum_fitzhugh

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    Its the interwebs isnt it? Rumours abound everywhere :)

    As to a classic server. Its a mixed bag. Good and bad stuff.

    I do think the tendency with MMOs is to over-complicate them and add in more and more skills/stats/character classes/powers/raaces/boons/enchants/potions etc etc to the point where you need to have a degree in maths to know what the fork it all means.

    A very simple free to play version of UO would be nice - pre Age Of Shadows definitely. I liked the UO3D client and would love to see something like that again. And being honest, if free servers can do it why cant the current team make a copy/test server like Draconi did and see what version ACTUALLY attracts players. You know, like market research? And then get the most popular version up and running :)

    I dunno - loved this when it was launched.

    Happy days.

    Ultima Online: Third Dawn - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia
     
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  15. TheGrimReefer

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    How good of a friend were u if u didnt know she came from WOW. Its not a rumor its TRUTH.
     
  16. petemage

    petemage Certifiable
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    I doubt UO had even a tenth of the potential player base. Even if it only lasts 6 months Blizzard is gonna make a buck out of it. Broadsword on the other hand couldn't get rid of showstopper bugs before the hype wears off. Just be realistic about the amateur team UO got left. I play lots of other games, a new UO hype I can only file under wishful thinking.
     
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  17. ShriNayne

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    Let's all just remember the debacle that was the EJ 'launch'....they couldn't even be bothered making a new player area where things were explained or even just consistent. People couldn't get their items out of the bank and if they got off their loaded beetle they couldn't get back on. I don't think we want them to attempt a classic server.
     
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  18. petemage

    petemage Certifiable
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    Exactly :D Even worse, the new player quest the EC had was removed with the EJ launch iirc. Replaced by those quest chains asking you to kill Cora for the last step.
     
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  19. ShriNayne

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    It's pretty obvious that they didn't think EJ would bring any actual 'new' players, just a bunch of 'returners'. Of course the chances of any real new players sicking around when everything is so complicated and requires hours of reading 'outside' the actual game, is pretty much zero! People who start in a new game want to play, this is why a new player tutorial is a must, not read pages and pages of instructions on how to do stuff, if they even know what it's called so they can actually look it up....
     
  20. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    WoW wasn't even around when she was working for UO where do you get that?
     
  21. Chrille

    Chrille Seasoned Veteran
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    Couldnt find anything about Mesanna working at Blizzard, all I could find was that she has been working for EA Bioware Mythic since 1997.
     
  22. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    The ONLY things I liked about Third Dawn was the fact you could resize your backpack and place things in there anywhere at all... and it could be as big or small as you wanted... all containers in TD were awesome... Paperdolls were awesome in that you could turn your character around and have a full 360 view of them... And finally ... the "actions" you could perform from waving to dancing... those are the things I miss. Otherwise, the client sucked as it was slower than molasses in winter.

    Willa 3d .png

    I remember those days well...
     
  23. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    yeah that was great, and the choice of making EC in 2D instead of isometric 3D (like TD) killed the chance of having that ever again :(
     
  24. Spartan

    Spartan Lore Keeper

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    May point you to this post ... if you haven't already seen it? (below)
    I vaguely recall her way back in the T2A/Ren days as being pretty involved. I was in the Den Dragon/Draconi fan clubs. <shrug>
     
  25. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    You can't find anything about because she never did... someone is smoking something if they think she has worked anywhere BUT EA... As far as I know she's been on the team since very early on... she started in QA...
     
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  26. Akiho

    Akiho Journeyman

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    Really baffles me, those that want a 'classic' server. Go on over to Siege and see how long your nostalgia lasts. Already I can hear the 'but siege is not classic UO'. Its as close as you can get, if you say 'but I dont like Siege' then you will never survive or like a classic server.

    As has been said many, many times before... UO adapted to the MAJORITY, that will never change. WoW is a completely different kettle of fish and making any kind of comparison between UO and WoW is just ludicrous!

    The PvP community, whilst active, is an absolute minority and I wish people would get that through their thick skulls!

    I was a PvPer for many years, i stopped not long after AoS, now I just don't care. I go to fel with a champ spawn template, If I get raided, I run because my template does not support fighting back. I just don't care, I go back the next day and do champ spawns, that's the one and only thing Fel has going for it. There is literally nothing else there.

    Anyhoo, my main point is.. UO is not even in the same ball park as WoW.
     
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  27. ShriNayne

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    Stop talking sense, Siege is too hard! :p
     
  28. Dorset

    Dorset Adventurer
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    Very few of us who played pre-tram want to go back to full old school rules, but there is plenty parts of it we also enjoyed and miss.

    If there was a way of curbing the harassment, ganking, pk's, house looting etc and just generally being able to be a full arse we could move a little forward in talking about a classic server. Then the argument of what else is included begins.

    I'm not anti pvp, but there should be a time and place for it and be willing to participate etc.
    When I use to watch the old Order v Chaos guys fight it out throughout the towns, I would watch them and copy what they did. I even wrote the spells down they were using and tried to look at what armour was being worn etc. This is the stuff that got me wanting to participate in pvp and then into early day factions, I use to love it.


    I would just like to go back to a more basic version of UO, they have made it into anther over complicated generic mess now. You shouldn't have to use a spreadsheet to play the game.
     
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  29. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    This topic comes up over and over again. Nothing ever comes of it for reasons detailed extensively here and in other threads, and it is vanishingly unlikely anything ever will. I won't rehash all that--search the forums for the topic and you'll find plenty.

    However...

    Even if we did somehow magically come to a universal consensus on what a "classic" shard should be and have, and even if Broadsword did have the time, money, and staff to devote to building such a shard, I don't think it would be what most people asking for a classic shard are actually looking for.

    Let's think back 22 years ago to the beginning of UO. Where were you?

    I was in high school. I used a Gateway computer. I accessed the internet via AOL on a 56K modem and lost connection whenever anyone called my parents' land line. I sat in IRC channels. I had a Tripod page. I drove my parents' K-car, a rusty stick-shift '88 Dodge Aries. I'd never had a cell phone and wouldn't for several more years.

    UO was new. The INTERNET was new, at least in a massive, easily available form, and especially as something that people could play massively multiplayer games on. It was an incredible, unprecedented new frontier in a world running out of those. It was science fiction becoming reality, and we all had front row seats. We were all learning everything for the first time, not just in UO but with the whole internet, a whole new world of instant communication. There was no World of Warcraft. There was no Facebook or Twitter or even MySpace. There was no YouTube. There was no Netflix. There was no Google. Amazon was barely out of Jeff Bezos's garage.

    But time moved on. The internet become a nearly unavoidable daily staple that's in our homes, in our workplaces, on our phones, in our cars and our TVs and our appliances. MMOs (including WoW) become commonplace and competed for our attention and money. UO changed a lot, but WE changed a lot too. As individuals, as communities, as citizens of the internet and of the world. A lot of us were still literally growing up. A lot of us had children that have since grown up. A lot of us are no longer with us at all. Our expectations are different. We are different.

    I don't think UO's current dev team could recreate the experience of early UO, but that's not a slight on them in the least. I don't think ANY team, with ANY amount of resources, with ANY ruleset or special shard, could recreate the experience of early UO. Because it wasn't just about UO. It wasn't Trammel and Felucca, or runaway scripting and cheating, or shard populations, or any particular publish, or item dependency, or the broken economy, or CC vs EC (vs 3D vs KR), or IDOCs, or RMT, or literally anything about UO itself that moved the game away from what really made the experience of the early, "classic" days of UO so special.

    It was just time.

    As much or maybe even more than the game itself, early UO was about a time and an experience that has and will only happen once in human history. It was about our introduction to a new digital world that was taking shape. Technology has dramatically changed the world in the past 22 years that UO has been around, and UO was the lens through which many of us started to see and feel it.

    For one brief, incredible moment, we watched the world begin to transform--and we shared that moment in Britannia. We shared it in a game unlike anything we'd seen before, that broke new ground and introduced us to people we would never have met otherwise, that let and encouraged us to build communities of all kinds of different people from all over the world. We were there! It was amazing! But no amount of shard building and game mechanic manipulation can bring back what was more than just a game. A classic shard, whatever that may mean to whoever may ask at any given moment, won't give you a classic experience. It can't.

    I don't think that it can ever be replicated. Many have tried. None have succeeded. Not free shards. Not copycat games. Not modern UO itself. Even if they could make a classic shard that somehow everyone agreed represented "classic" UO, it wouldn't be the same. A classic WoW shard is not the equivalent of a classic UO shard because the context of early WoW and early UO are so different.

    That's not to say there isn't room for rethinking and uncomplicating current mechanics. There definitely is, but that's not the same thing. They can change current game mechanics, but they can't recreate an experience that was so inextricably bound to its context in time. Early UO didn't happen in a vacuum, and it was about more than UO itself. It was about an incredible, unique moment in time that many of us experienced in and through UO.

    But that moment has passed. We've come too far and we can't go back.
     
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  30. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    As I have said before you can't put the cat back in the bag... they have given us all sorts of stuff and started us on the path to powercreeping... you can't go back.

    Sure they could start a new shard up with all new ruleset and all new stuff... but the fact of the matter is most the cheaters already know all the cheating ways... they know what they are doing and the economy of the new shard will soon be as corrupt as every other shard if they can't fix the cheating...

    If they could ever fix the cheating, hacking and duping... not that any game ever has... they might be able to pull something off... but that would also take a lot of DEV time. The rest of the game would suffer possibly so much so that it would be our downfall. Not sure I'm willing to risk that... and I agree with @Riyana it just wouldn't work.

    Kinda like I've said about an all fel server... not that we don't have Siege... but honestly what made early UO so awesome was sheeple..... there wouldn't be any sheeple on a new fel only shard... any new shard is also going to be scripted, cheated and hacked to death... and it'll suffer all the same crap we all suffer now... only there won't be any "easy" prey like the early days because no one will go there to be prey... the only ones that would go there would be the hardcore PvP cheating crowd you already play with chasing around all the shards we have now... looking for easy prey of the people who go to low population servers trying to do a champ spawn without getting molested by PvP cheaters...
     
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  31. Danpal

    Danpal Seasoned Veteran
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    Most likely we would not all agree on what a classic shard would be. My self it would be right before Age of Shadows came out. With only fel tram and ish. No custem houseing no luna. Back when you went shopping in game it toke hours of searching vendors and there malls.
     
  32. ShriNayne

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    I think AoS is right up there in 'worst decisions ever', it just impacted community so badly, the only good part of it was that there was space for more houses but they could have done that without all the bad parts.
     
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  33. Spartan

    Spartan Lore Keeper

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    I agree with @Riyana in everything. However my UO of 22 years ago, I'd been in online worlds for some time so I had sort of a lead in that regard. <shrug>

    As for my "classic" shard? I'm with @Danpal and would go so far as to say "anything pre-AOS. Anything.
     
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  34. Riyana

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    AoS gave us customizable housing, which was (and as far as I know still is) a unique feature. I was hooked, at least for a while. But the rest of it... eh.
     
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  35. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    That's how I feel @Riyana I really like the custom housing so I'm torn about what I'd want in a Pre whatever server... I miss when a bunch of chainmail and such was great... and I also miss when dragons were scary and it took a few people to take one down.... when most mobs were difficult and you needed your guildmates to keep you alive.

    But then I miss having more people... but I don't think we will ever get back to that.
     
  36. Stussywear

    Stussywear Seasoned Veteran
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    It's funny if you visit discords, facebook groups, reddit groups, anything about Ultima Online really where discussion is to be had (outside Stratics, because god forbid we go against what the Stratics Elite want). Tons of people say they'd come back in a heartbeat to give a more classic UO a play again. If you dont want to play it, dont. But to continually beat the idea down over and over because you dont want to play it doesnt mean anything. There are people literally waiting hours in queue to play classic Wow. Is trying to pump some money back into this game really a bad thing?
     
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  37. MalagAste

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    I'd rather the DEVs didn't waste time on something that won't last more than a couple months or so before people remember why it sucked... and get bored without sheeple to kill..... and find all the same cheating and corruption with no help from GMs that the game currently has where paging a GM can take over a week to get a response... that'd be fun.... NOT... With all the rampant cheat programs and all, any new shard will be just as corrupt and its economy will be just as flawed in less than 3 months' time.

    No, it's a waste of time and effort that I'd rather they spent on making the entire game better...
     
  38. ShriNayne

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    They barely have the time and resources to work on 'revamps', I use the term loosely, of current systems and seasonal content, who exactly is going to be working on this 'classic' version?
    Even if they actually wanted to make one, which they don't, they couldn't do it anyway.
    People are just looking at the past with rose-tinted glasses, it was only fun because it was new and different and we had nothing else.
    Now that people have a choice they will just choose whatever is easier.
     
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  39. Danpal

    Danpal Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend The Valorian Knights

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    The main issue with the game they made it to complicated.

    Before AOS you wanted to make a suit all you had to do was use a gm blacksmith.

    Now you need to use all trade skills along with a spreadsheet. Because you have to make sure you max out everything you can.

    Before it was only a few million to set up a char. Now you need to spend millions even into the plats if you want the best.

    Someone just comeing into the game has no way to get that much gold unless they buy it.
     
  40. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    that's not a problem of the properties (because new players could get a decent equipment from magic items without much plannig), the problem is that there is no mid-level content...

    if you look around, you either do high-end stuff or you have nothing to do but macroing skills until you can handle the high-end stuff...
    Plus certain skills like taming are completely useless unless you have an high level (and equipment to tame high-end pets). You either fight trash and get nothing or you have to do high-end content.

    Also talking about professions, gathering skills are a mindless bot job, no fun at all, only mining has a bit of fun if you have the gargoyle pickaxe but that's it...

    And this are just few of the problems. So instead of wasting time of resources in a useless classic version (because let's face it, if people is whining now about the champion spawns raiding and ghost cams, with classic it will be MUCH MUCH worst), they should focus in doing a normal version that actually works :D
    Besides people keep comparing wow to uo, but wow is advertized EVERYWHERE (even on the milk box), UO is become more unknown than 6 pieces puzzle indie games, so if they actually do a classic server (AGAIN) it will end like last time that was completely empty after 2 weeks :lol:
     
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  41. Danpal

    Danpal Seasoned Veteran
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    Back when I started all I did was mineing. Was a way for me to relax after a day of school and work. And there was a good market for it.

    Now there really no market unless you can mass produce it with bots.
     
  42. Multani

    Multani Journeyman
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    @Dot_Warner It is nice to finally see you in support of classic servers.

    For those of you that did not catch the reference or simply new to ultima online you have not always been able to resurrect a dead pet in one of the earlier publishes to the game the ability to bond with your pet was introduced which gave players the ability to endlessly resurrect their pets that had died in combat this was a game changing addition that many did not agree. Dot is right that any version of classic needs to remove pet bonding.
     
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  43. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Grand Inquisitor
    Governor Stratics Veteran Britain [BRIT]

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    :facepalm:
     
  44. Multani

    Multani Journeyman
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    I mean if they put up a classic server once then they still have the code that time around to do it (AGAIN) with little effort.
    But just for fun I went back and looked up what I could on this server you keep insisting existed and was empty and I found a thread about it for you and I mean the thread is pretty self explanatory so any reply from you will be considered a troll from now on cause you clearly have no idea what your talking about and I will flag your responses for removal. [NETWORK] Ultima Online - Classic PvP server is back online!
     
  45. Spartan

    Spartan Lore Keeper

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    Oh hell ... in for a penny, in for a pound. Just for the heck of it pretend we can have a classic shard. Really!

    Pre-AoS - Say T2A to Ren era. As a result these would HAVE to occur for it to be "classic"
    Stat cap 250; Skill cap 700; No skill/stat locks
    No PS of any kind; no Stat scrolls
    No pet scrolling
    No displayed properties except charges of invisibility and such. Requires Item ID to discover more (if any)
    Armor and headgear affect Dex/Stam - ie., Clothes, Leather, Studded, Ring, Chain, Plate have increasing negative affect on your stamina.
    No LRC or LMC properties. Gotta carry boatloads of regs and Meditate often
    NO CUSTOM HOUSING - got your attention?
    No door security except by key lock; thieves could REALLY stealth in behind you!
    Detect Hidden is a must in housing to reveal the hidden thief (if any)
    Did I mention that the key(s) for the doors must be in your pack? One more item to carry.
    No randomized ore/lumber spots. Bots/script kiddies will have a field day.
    Bounty system is in play ... go get the head of a famous brigand to collect rewards. Or just keep them as souvenirs.
    Corpses can be looted; NO INSURANCE!
    Human characters. (I can't recall when Heartwood/elves came in) - def no gargoyles.
    No champ spawns or multi stage quests
    No High Seas stuff
    Malas, Ilshenar, Tokuno, Stygian Abyss, Eodon do not exist. If Pre-Ren then Trammel is also gone.
    No runics, none of the specialized work centers that hold charges.
    No runic atlases
    No specifying how many to make and then allowing it to happen - can we say carpal tunnel?
    No BOD system, no POF
    No Paladins or Necros (or variants based on them); No samurai or ninja (or variants)
    No masteries
    Since no custom housing, that also torpedos the crafted materials for castles, etc.
    Planting beds - gone.
    Hues for dyes are limited to the initial palette, none of the jugs of "x" number of uses for colors.

    ... boatloads more changes I haven't even remembered.
    ==========
    Those are some of the things you could experience if a shard for "the goode olde daze" ever appeared on the horizon. Soooo, barring the obvious rejection of this possibility by the Devs and others, do you REALLY want something like this in your life? I remember what a b**ch it was juggling stats and skills nearly daily.
     
    #45 Spartan, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  46. Stussywear

    Stussywear Seasoned Veteran
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    I think most people would love somewhere between UO:R and Pre Pub 16. Anywhere in there is your target. Sign me up.
     
  47. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    that was a trial run for a classic server, they made it with some extra mechanics to make it enjoyable, but that's basically it :D
    And the fact that they did it once it doesn't mean they still have the source code (they lost the source code of TD afterall)...

    Report me as much as you want, I'm not going to lose sleep over it :lol:
     
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  48. Multani

    Multani Journeyman
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    reported for spreading lies.
     

    Attached Files:

  49. Draza

    Draza Journeyman

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    Wasnt there a trick about locking a pouch on the step with the key in it and being able to use it on the door?
     
  50. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    yeah is such a lie that after that experiment they passed from "maybe one day" to "it will never happen" :p
     
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