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How to boost mages?

Discussion in 'UO Spellcaster' started by Splup, Oct 27, 2008.

  1. Splup

    Splup Guest

    This thread is mainly about PvP. Just wanted to give heads up so if not interested in PvP at all, don't bother reading :)

    We all know mages are getting kinda overrun by dexers at the moment. Basically the most irl skill needing template is getting overrun by "2 click chars". Only things mages are good at is Xhealing and fielding, but mostly group needs just 1-2 mages and rest should be archers, since it just simply is Superior class at the moment compared to mages. And it's just sad.

    So I would like to hear ideas how to boost mages. Dexers are not getting nerfed, so it's better to ask devs to buff mages. If this thread is any good, I will make a summarise of it to UHall.

    My ideas:

    1. Let mages have FC 3 again. This would not create imbalance between mages, since getting FC 3 is really easy due to scrappers, cheap ornaments, Very cheap arcane shields and helm of swiftness, but it could help mages against dexers.

    2. Let mages have 25 SDI

    3. Create a magery spell which would work bit like Death strike but with longer duration, so dexers could not always run away healing.

    4. Let us cast summons in Guard Zones.

    I'm not saying all these should be added, but just throwing in ideas.
  2. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Oct 9, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Well, some might disagree with me but, it takes the best skill out of all the PvP classes to be melee. Why you ask?

    1. Mages and Archers can use ranged attack and keep their distance from someone who uses melee attacks. i.e., takes less work.

    2. A dexxer has to know how to close the distance quickly and make an attack in the first place.

    Aside from any other point of I can think at the moment, I can go about this all day. I think mages have always had a superior advantage.

    Personally, in my opinion, every class has had advantageous point in their time in Ultima Online...except for melee.

    Complaints about oh, archers are overpowered. So, they "fixed" that. Bushido Mages...oh my goodness that is much too powerful. So they "fixed" that with the 20 second timer.

    Now, granted everyone has their own opinions but, the best people I have ever fought against were mage classes. Mage classes are the most powerful class in every game I've played and PvP'ed. Why?, high high DPS (damage per second).

    So unfortunately, but...I do not believe mages need any boost. I think they are powerful opposition as it is. EVERY single class has combinations when...done correctly...are NEAR impossible to stop.

    I don't think dexxers should be "stopped" healing since there is already a chance for anyone less than 100 healing to fail a heal when deadly poison is applied.

    In conclusion it is REALLY difficult for me to agree with boosting mages because:

    A. With even 10% more SDI I would kill even more people as a mage.

    B. A mage can already implement a template with death strike, so eh I can't roll with that either. Wouldn't make sense to have a deathstrike spell. Kind of redundant. Otherwise 2 deathstrikes, 1 from the ninja form, 1 from the mage spell and a spell combo would = dead person every time.

    OH, and NOT to be all negative, I think you have NICE ideas, I just don't agree dexxers are overpowered. This coming from someone who plays all 3 major combat classes regularly: dexxer, mage, archer.
  3. Splup

    Splup Guest

    May I ask how you kill dexxers on your mage? I mean, I can get them to low health but I can't kill them. Except in chokepoints where I can try to field em. Tips are very welcome :)

    And I gotta disagree with DPS also. We were figting 2vs2, me and my buddy with scribe mages against 1 melee dexer and 1 archer. I have 65 DCI on my suit, and they were both on me, but we could basically do very low damage. All our time went to try to keep me healed, since dexer can make nere 40 dmg per 1,25 sek without getting interrupted and healing at the same time. 2 of those hitting me all the time all we could do was defend basically. No help from summons in towns...

    On Europa shard where I play, dexers don't even disagree with them being superior, heck, many dexers there wish to give mages a boost.

    And yes, I also have meleedexer and archer, so I also know what I'm talking about. I don't know how well you are geared, but atleast my archer with 180 stamina even when cursed is just insanely effective.
  4. Coyt

    Coyt Guest

    everytime in uo there is a boost to speed and damage, when things are unbalanced,
    i think it should be done in the diffrent way, less damage outcome form melee/archers(and pets),is the best way to balance is it if i am to decide,

    maybe add more Hitpoints for all chars, making a one on one fight last alot longer,

    also i got aquestion, how to counter HLD effect ?
  5. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    UO doesn't have classes. You can build your character to take advantage of which ever skill is over powered for the moment.

    I have no problem playing mages even now.

    One thing I would like to see changed back though is field spells and summons. Instead of only attacking murderers (if you are an innocent)/other factions they should work on anyone that you target/gets into the path of destruction. I think this simple change would greatly empower a mage once again.
  6. Coyt

    Coyt Guest

    it would end giving players unwanted murdercounts, or murdering ppl witohut getting counted for it,
    when the change for only flagging red/grey/orange came it was one the best changes in a long time
  7. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    Lets see hmmm..

    Evil omen corp skin explo flame strike fire ball fire ball pain spike usually kills at 2/6 this takes what 4-6 seconds and you want to buff these guys? If you dont have an aid running chug a pot or have over 125 hp you die. Thats it dead! Either stop running a pvp mage protected or stop playing a mage!
  8. but mages can have 25% sdi in PvP.. inscribtionGM adds 10% and increase the cap up to 25%.
  9. Splup

    Splup Guest

    You saying you get to cast those spells without getting interrupted? Also if ur opponent doesnt eat apple before explo flame hits him, you are not fighting real PvP:rs... And who doesnt have over 125hp? That sounds kinda rare to me. I can tell you wouldnt kill my dexer with that combo... You'd prolly end up healing ur self after casting that corpse sking if you don't have parrying ;) Thou corpse skin doenst take me under 65 fire resist anyways, and without scribe you would make like less/around then 60 dmg with explo FS.

    Well, I'm glad you guys find mages powerfull, and you see there's a chance 1on1 against 50 EP 180 stamina endless manapool dexers :) And yes, they usually have 140-150 hp.
  10. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    My Necro mage owns most dexers.

    Maybe you just aren't good?
  11. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest


    Im so tired of complaints its just ridicules!

    Hell I might go kill some dexers today just as an action against this post!
  12. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Necromage is quite ok against dexers yes. Except that concussion gives you hell, but otherwise.

    Ok lets say I'm not good enough. I asked this once already, but could you tell me how you kill a dexer with your mage? Lets say you'r fighting with inscription mage against archer at Britain. Cause seriously, I can get them lowhealth, but I can't kill them, since they just start running when 40% health and fight again when 100 %. So I find myself in situation where I can't kill him, so it's just a battle which lasts as long as I'm alive. Since I can't run cause I can't heal while running but he can make damage. I can teleport to roofs but sadly they can do the same with scrolls.

    So any help from ya guys is very welcome. I'v been playing mages since 2000, and I do very well against other mages and in group battles (basically fielding, xhealing and sometimes dumping), but when I find myself fighting against dexer 1on1, I just don't find a way to kill them. And even in groupbattles, I find archers being the most effective, except in chokepoints which has been mentioned.

    Cause how I see things, is that if I'm standing in same screen with an archer, and we'r shooting each other. He's making more DPS then I am, and healing himself at the same time. And if I happen to make enough damage he can just run away.

    To give some statistics to back up my opinion, I wish you will check this link and read what I wrote after it:

    That is our shard, I myself play in F3W so we'r doing pretty well at the moment. But what's interesting if you look at the players with most kills.

    In top 5, there's one mage Thunder Bird. He plays in our guild and I know there's more behind those kills. In top 15 there's three (3) mages. Rest dexers. Eldan who's a mage in place 15 is in our guild also, he gets pretty few kills but as a VERY skillfull parryingmage he also dies very rarely. That char is purely groupfight char, very defensive, keeping us healed.

    If you check the same statistics from other shard you will find same thing:

    Atlantic, top 10 there's 1 mage. Rest dexers.

    On catskills, top 10 there's 1 mage and 1 tamer. Rest dexers.

    Those stats speak pretty hard language.
  13. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    1vs1 you gota start to whack at his stm. There are a few spells that do 50/50 hp and stm damage. Get a guildy in a party and cast on them. Watch the stm. If your facing a mana pool dexxer most time they wont have StmR Taking them down to 100 stm or less will decrease their aid time by 1-3 second. That is crucial in long battles. Pain spike and flame strike both knock stm down a bit You will have to do TESTS to find your favorite combos and even set them in a macro.

    Cast spell
    last target

    Cast spell
    last target

    Cast spell
    last target

    Like so!
  14. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Ok well, taking down stamina with other spells then curse is imho not that useful, since they will use refreshpots straight away (Thx to balanced mod). There's few spear dexers but usually ppl use 1 handed weps. Except if they have been killed and looted already once, that's when it really matters, good point there. The most complex dexers have no resist, them you can mana vampire. Otherwise working on their mana is kinda same as trying to keep urself alive while their using specials :)

    But my real question is, how you kill him. I mean, you for sure know what happens when they notice they are like 35-40 % health. They start running and healing themselves till they are 100 % health and then start fighting again, there's nothing you can do on a mage when he starts running. So basically, only way I have found is try to get them to like 45 % health (in this case some ppl don't run yet), then get their one bandies blocked by poison (need to count their bandietimer all the time so you can throw poison at right time so they don't have time to use cure potion), then hope you get something like Explo FS Lightning through while they are cursed, without interruptions before their new bandages kick in, or he realises to use healing potion. Usually they start running the second they notice your FS is not getting interrupted at this point, to prevent you from targeting it. There's so many points that can go wrong here:

    He eats apple = You'r damage won't prolly be enough to kill.

    He drinks a heal potion = He get 30 HP back

    He interrupts you = New bandages have time to kick in

    He starts running = Pretty obvious

    Otherway to kill them is to get them fielded to some small area, then using EV:s there and hoping he doesnt have telerport scrolls which he will use while ur casting EV. Ahh... I should add "let us summon in GZ" to that list also prolly, since I fight GZ pretty much.

    So that is what I need help with, how do you kill him without him getting off screen, not how I make damage :) And now this was about 1on1, 2on1 you can find a way.

    Even still, that factionpoint list is showing what the situation really is at the moment.
  15. GFY

    GFY Guest

    Another thing to remember is that a lot of dexers don't have resist spell on their template any more. You can mana drain them and thier in trouble (no specials) paralyze works well, (beware against archers because they can still shoot at ya, i hope that gets fixed)

    You may need to adjust your spell combos vs dexers. If they always get away low on health try a quick poison or drop an explosion spell on them just before they run, this usually works for me, and I love getting the kill message when I can't even see the dexer! :owned:

    You should also try changing up your spell combos when your fighting. If you attack with the same combos all the time a player will adjust to counter your spells. I like to use mind blast on a mage and pain spike on a necro because they drain even more stamina then they do damage, and there spells that can be cast quickly even with protection. This will also lower a dexers swing speed which can make them much easier to deal with.

    If your fighting a lot of dexers you need to make sure you have 45 dci on your suit. Many dexers rely on hit mana leech and hit stamina leech. If they can't hit you they run out of mana!

    Lastly, try using spells that can be cast quickly. A dexer taking a lot of damage from a lot of spells, chain of fireballs or I my favorite, mind blast fireball combos, can get flustered and make mistakes. Usually the winner in pvp is the person that makes the next to last mistake.

    Ok if he does run off screen prepare for his return. Heal up, meditate to get your mana back and get ready to blast him when he comes back. Pre-cast a explosion, then hit him with 3-4 mind blasts and a mana drain and a poison. If he starts to run hit him with as many fireballs as you can. Remember to keep adjusting your attack style to keep him off balance. If your fighting a dexer that wants to get up close and personal, cast a chain of harm spells. There fast and do more damage the closer the target is to you.

    Make sure you optimize your template. If you play a straight mage you really need 120 eval and int as high as posible for maximum damage potential. Also you can add 100 inscribe for an additional 10% damage bonus.
  16. Splup

    Splup Guest

    I will keep chaining a lot of small spells in mind. Problem is that those don't fingerslip so you gotta hope you get your poisons rightly timed and through resist. But using that tactic with lets say summoned demon if off GZ could be good.

    I have 65 DCI on my mages suit, since that way HLD drops me only to 40 instead of 20 ;)
  17. GFY

    GFY Guest

    I almost forgot, start every player you fight off with a curse or 2. These will drop all their resist to 60, no matter what they started with.

    One of my favorite starting combos, if I have the time, is explosion, curse, flame strike. The curse goes of first and the player doesn't have time to counter before the exp, fs goes off.
  18. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Oct 9, 2008
    Likes Received:
    You do mean 45 DCI correct? That is the cap, as well as 45 HCI is the cap.


    There is the link to back up the evidence.

    I have to agree with 5% Luck. You won't ever be able to beat a good dexxer with running protection, and you can't cast big spells up close. Other than that the mana drain spells are effective for those not running resist.

    Other than that to be honest, I have not scene a good inscription mage in action in quite a while. Now I'm not saying its a good template, anyways keep reading:

    GFY brings up a VERY good point I think though. Whoever makes the second to last mistake is the one that dies. Don't matter who has a "fail safe" combo. If you make a mistake and they don't then...you die. Plain and simple.

    As far as factions, well...I've never been crazy about them, so if you're referring to faction only fighting well, that's not my lane. Especially with the recent changes.
  19. Splup

    Splup Guest

    I really mean 65 DCI. DCI over 45 doesnt effect, so I never have more then 45 DCI. But the difference between having 65 or 45 is when you are hit with Hit Lower Defence. HLD lowers you'r DCI by 25, and that is counted from that 65, not 45. So Taking that in concern, I always have atleast 40 DCI. If I had just 45 DCI in first place, it would go to 20. Atleast I'v understood that it works that way :)
  20. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Oct 9, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Defense Chance Increase (DCI) enhances your ability to defend yourself from melee or ranged attacks. It does not effect your chance to evade magical attacks.

    It can be found naturally on weapons, shields and jewelry. It ranges in intensity from 1 to 15%. There is a cap of 45%.

    DCI works in addition to your chance to parry, or block an attack by using the Parrying skill.

    Hit Lower Defense (HLD) is an item property found on weapons and reading glasses. A successful hit with such a weapon lowers the defense rating of the target by 25% for 8 seconds.

    Okay, so now DCI is like DI. There is a cap. Anything above the cap has no effect. So having max DCI your DCI goes down to 20 with a successful hit.

    You are thinking of successful chance to dodge an attack with concerns to DCI, mathematical calculations of weapon skill vs. weapon skill, then checking DCI vs. HCI etc.

    Forumla is found here > http://uo.stratics.com/content/arms-armor/combat.php

    Defense Chance Increase increases your final chance to dodge your opponents blows.

    If you before Defense Chance Increase is applied have 50% chance to dodge, with 20% Defense Chance Increase you will have 60% chance to dodge.
  21. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    If you were say a warrior with chivalrey and got hit with HLD and cast DF thats a negitive defence chance of 40% so these guys need to have 85 DCI from items to have no effect of HLD and still max DCI at all times. This is correct.

    since hes not chiving he can get away with 65% DCI from items and in no way effect parry or weapon blocks based on skill. This is just items with dci.

    If you wanted to do the whole equasion based on weapon block then parry block then DCI "block" each would be an entirely different check in that order!