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[Chivalry] Is it even worth it at all?

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by Herp!, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    Seriously,

    I've dropped chiv completely off of my dexxers. I see absolutely no reason to run chiv when I can use enchanted apples, orange petals, and bandaids. I understand the use of Enemy of One for non slayer bosses and other creatures, but 35-80% damage boost is complete crap in comparison to more survivability, especially with proper use of Counter Attack(having 0DCI and max Parry) allowing you to almost double your damage(CA with AI or DS queued will make it do the special allowing for a quadra strike or double AI) straight out of the gate. Consecrate is also worthless as you can reforge normal quality 2h weapons bought from a vendor to be 100% ele and still get 5 full imbues including a super or lesser slayer.

    Can someone please tell me in what way this skill is worth having at all for PvM?
     
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  2. King Greg

    King Greg Sage

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    Only useful against mobs with no slayer, I've seen it put to good use in combination with self honor to kill bosses that spawn extra adds without the other mobs noticing you.
     
  3. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    So... worthless? Thought so.
     
  4. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Crazed Zealot
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    For more survivability drop Anatomy. 120 Anatomy gives you only 20% damage boost while chivalry gives you about 50%.

    You can't dispel Revenant, you can't cure high level poison... you can't even remove Blood Oath till the end of cooldown on your apples.

    Counter Attack hardly is able to noticeably increase your damage output.
    If don't agree then please give any real example = monster/boss type, time with CA, time without CA (the same character and equipment).

    Because often it doubles-triples your damage output.
     
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  5. Zalan

    Zalan Crazed Zealot
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    I'm going to give you a counter argument.

    Elemental damage does count as one of your five imbue able properties with Runic Reforging. You can a get luck and loot a clean 100% elemental weapon. Or burn up alot of Shadow Runic Hammers under the old way to get 100% elemental weapon. Or it may be a different runic hammer.

    Devs have added a few places were you can't AI. You may not always have the correct damage type on your Slayer weapon. Consecrate Weapon works with any special but direct damage attacks like AI and AP. At 120 Chivalry it also adds 15 Damage Increase.

    Enemy of One adds 82% damage at 120 Chivalry in PvM and 16% damage in PvP. Your not always going to get Honor scored on your opponent. With a regular Slayer and 100 DI you can still increase your damage with EoO to reach the 300% damage cap. If you get Honor you your still not guaranteed to hit the damage cap. If you have a Super Slayer then you don't need EoO or Honor with 100 DI.

    Divine Fury- most important aspect of this is Stamina Recovery. The rest is just extra.15 HCI, 20 DI, 15 SSI at 120 Chiv. Now you can probably do without if you have alot of SR on your armor. Or carry 10+ SR pots, however SR Pots probably won't be available after you res.

    Dispel Evil- it has situational uses. It's good for getting the mobs off of you for a few seconds, so a bandage can kick in.

    Sacred Journey- this is a necessity, unless you keep running to your bank box for more recall scrolls to drop on your runebook.
     
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  6. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Master

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    Cleanse By Fire, so that you don't have to waste your bandage curing, and risk being re-Poisoned before a second one heals you.
    Consecrate Weapon, because you don't always know what the targets weakest resist is, especially on time sensitive hunts like EM events.
    Sacred Journey, I haven't used Recall scrolls to travel since I was new, also on stealthers Sacred Journey lets you hide before you arrive.
    Dispel Evil, for Revenants, sure you could just kill them, or have a Hit Dispel weapon, but the spell is fast and cheap and doesn't require you to do any targeting which makes you quicker overall.
    Remove Curse, because consumables run out/get looted, it's usually faster and more reliable than other options.
    Noble Sacrifice, the only group Ressurection option in the game.
    If you don't have a better Mastery option Chivalry has one that fully restores your character. Plus one for ranged damage.

    Oh and the damage of course, but that's just a bonus.
     
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  7. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    First things first, no, ele damage does not count as an imbue unless they are made by a lazy crafter. I have 2 boxes full of weapons for every slayer type & non slayers in every element that have been reforged to 70%+ then enhanced further to be 100% if necessary, all with 5 imbues on them + 100% elemental. A long time friend lives with me and generally plays with me so we have double everything. I can generate 100+ shadow runics an hour, but you can also just use Powerful reforge Dull Coppers which I can produce in much higher quantities to get to the point where you can enhance them.

    I only AI on Ozymandias and Lord Oaks as they are the only bosses in the game with 90% resists. Anything with below 90% resist is better off being hit by double strike, period.

    Consecrate adds damage increase that is worthless if you are 100% from your suit. I use 25/20(25 if not in weapon mastery) jewelry, 5(0 if not in weapon mastery) from Warrior's Gift 10 from tinker legs, 20 from Soldier's Talisman, & 20 from Jumu's Sacred Hide... 100%, no need for more because it's a waste. As I said, I have every element for every slayer, I always have the correct weapon for the fight.

    Enemy of One is beneficial for speed and that is all. I always get honor. Also a minor note, you're backwards on your slayers. Lesser needs nothing to get 300%, super needs 100% extra that I get from honor, I do not miss often enough to worry about honor. Matter of fact, in all the fights I've done since pub 96, I have missed 1/2 of 1 double strike... And I've been doing everything since the publish hit.

    I never use DF, I never use refresh pots, I do not worry about swinging slower for a split second because the next hit I will be at max hp & stam from leeches on the weapon.

    Dispel Evil, doesn't matter, you can kill the revenant in 1 hit.

    Sacred journey, I have a jewelry set for 40 chiv and I just swap to recall. Macro opens the atlas & equips the jewelry as I open the book.

    Cleanse by fire is worthless as bandaids cure the poison at the midway point and then heal you.. In addition to that I have leeches on my weapon and I double strike allowing me to leech up to 200 hp in a single hit.

    Consecrate - see above, I will swap weapons throughout the fight if I do not already know the weakness, find highest damage, and kill with that. I am the guy who edits and updates UOGuide monster stats with every publish, I know what I'm doing.

    SJ - See above

    DE - See above

    Remove curse - Yes, I may have to wait a whole 1-30 seconds with blood oath on me before I can remove it... Oh no! Because most bosses that blood oath totally don't spawn adds that you can kill while you wait for it to fall off, right?

    NS - Worthless skill for me, I only ever play with 2-4 people & I have bandaids and healing to rez.

    Mastery - I almost always run swords mastery for onslaught damage bonus because I have the correct element for every boss always.

    Oh and the damage, again, I'm not worried about speed, I'm worried about the fact that I can survive much better utilizing a 6x 120 build with healing and anatomy.

    As for Corwin's statements:

    Counter attack is almost always about 1/2 my damage on a boss. Running 0 DCI & 120 Parry/Bushido with a 2h weapon, you will notice that it goes off every 2-4 seconds. I will be around tonight and possibly capable of finding a way to log my damage journal. I have to put CA on more than I have to heal myself.

    Weapon skill based combat works as such, for anyone who does not know this:

    1st. Innate Miss - The enemy misses you due to lack of skill, or hit chance. It does not travel through the other check points.

    2nd. Your weapon skill - Having a weapon skill offers a defensive bonus of Skill vs Skill.

    3rd. Parry - As we all know, parry allows you to mitigate melee attacks.

    4th. Defense Chance Increase - That little bubble appears that let's you know they tried to hit you and DCI stopped it. *

    5th. Block - The Bushido/Parry mechanic that I discussed previously. A hit must travel through all the check points before your character has a chance to block the attack and use your current stance **

    6th. Hit - You take the hit. The hit traveled through all the checkpoints without getting stopped, and you finally take damage.

    * The reason why I push for 0% DCI is because you actually do not want DCI to stop the hit. You actually want the hit to travel through your DCI and get stopped by the 5th check point, which is the block mechanic, which allows you to Counter Attack.

    ** This is the most ideal check point for a hit to get stopped on

    Just sayin'.
    I honestly hate that I'm forced by Warrior's Gift to have 5 DCI at all. I am contemplating swapping to Shanty's Waders from my 4 int boots just to get rid of the DCI and CA more often.

    Please, feel free to keep trying to make me care about Chiv in any way, it just seems completely and utterly worthless.
     
    #7 Herp!, Feb 19, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  8. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Master

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    If you always get the Honor, and always play with 2-4 friends, then they need EoO and the skill has worth thus proving yourself wrong. There was more, but it isn't needed now.
     
  9. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    Except they don't... No one NEEDS EoO. It's a matter of speed, EoO will get you instagibbed in a lot of situations m8.
     
  10. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Master

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    Yeah and a lot of situations it won't. Most of the things you've posted don't prove it's useless they just prove it's useless for you IF all your claims were true which realistically they're not. Because any open situation someone can always get there first, like Doom. Champion Spawns where you can get raided getting it done faster (or before the people you raided come back - if you aren't just doing spawns for a fight) is a distinct advantage.
     
    #10 Lord GOD(GOD), Feb 19, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  11. Zalan

    Zalan Crazed Zealot
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    The skill is not worthless, that's just your opinion. Not everyone stockpiles either.

    If it was worthless then no one would use it. If you want something more challenging try a pure Necro Warrior in PvM and get the same results.
     
  12. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    If you can do a spawn in less than 10 minutes with the recent reduction of spawn, show me, because I do it solo just fine without any Chiv. If someone comes to raid me, I REALLY don't want them to do 100% more damage due to my EoO for x monster. They are all realistic claims. I will talk to my bud & see if he'll take a second and put that 120 chiv he has stoned back on to test damage. I can guarantee that if you run higher tact/anat & 100LJ, you will out damage anything that chiv can boost you to, without the LJ it would equate to approximately 10 damage per hit lost, aka negligible damage boost. Solo, you can heal through anything. Duo, you can crossheal through anything. Speed is not an issue for anyone that understands the mechanics of combat and damage bonuses. Chiv is simply an unsafe damage bonus & everything else about it can be easily avoided with items and healing.

    Don't wanna run healing? K, reforge your weapons for 100% ele 100%HLL, run with petals & apples. Get Blood Oathed? Kill something else to heal yourself. Again, an advantage of the revenant not being dispelled, you will always have a target to heal off of by hitting it.

    It may not be "worthless" but it just isn't worth a crap if you use other skills and items. I understand not everyone stockpiles, but I can also very simply ask, why not just stock pile some stuff and make it so you never have to cast a single spell that resets your swing timer and gets you gibbed? I play for like 3-6 hours a week nowadays, I have no issues keeping my garden for orange petals up, I have no issues buying a few bolts of cloth and making bandaids, I have 2 apple trees I just pick daily in a whole 60 seconds & stock up on apples, & once every few months(4-6) I will spend about 60 minutes just buying regs at every single reg vendor in the game to stock up for alchemy while I cook dinner and such... Stockpiling really isn't hard. Everyone may want to just play kill the monster, but you kinda have to buy stuff every once in a while to kill the monsters.

    I see what you are all saying, I see that you see it as a useful skill, and I see that it could be utilized in very few situations... Maybe I am more just trying to get people stuck in old templates that are very visibly lower damage/survivability than things I am running now, to look at the skill and see that you can easily just nix the entire 80-120 points and use them elsewhere ;)
     
  13. Zalan

    Zalan Crazed Zealot
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    I'm not stuck in the old box template. I'm probably the only one PvM as Necro/Warrior on Legends. The same shard your on. There's no Chivalry and no Bushido in my template.

    Although it's definitely not optimized for damage. That's probably because I'm using the Grim Reapers Scythe. It is interesting dragging Two Skelton Dragons every were on foot.
     
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  14. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    Send me the build, I have a char with 120 everything available and I would enjoy testing this out. It really does sound fun. I wasn't necessarily directing that at you, but you know if you play on Legends, most everyone is still stuck in the old box standard sampire build... hardly anyone even running Dragoon or any other templates that output more damage, have more survivability, and are just more fun to play.
     
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  15. Zalan

    Zalan Crazed Zealot
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    It's not optimized:

    120 Sword
    120 TAC
    120 Necro
    120 SS
    120 Focus
    120 Resist

    Mastery 3 Primer Necro & Swords
    Necro for Control Undead: Skeletal Dragons

    Swords for Onslaught with use of fire or poison weapon with corpse skin cast on target

    Not a requirement, but I use Crimson Red Bone Armor & ride a Skeletal Steed.
     
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  16. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    I'm gonna go ahead and play fiddle faddle with that build tonight or this coming weekend when I get some time. I will try your way and then see with other skills and such what I can do with the build. I'd enjoy a melee tamer of sorts in having the Skeletal Dragons. How many control slots do they take each & I assume you just summon Chyloth and let him run off to summon the Dragons you then control? Or do you run down to the ratman mine/ankh?
     
  17. Zalan

    Zalan Crazed Zealot
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    They take 2 slots. I get them from ratmen mine. You have to drag the first skeletal dragon through the moongate and back. In order to get another one to spawn.

    Hopefully, this last bug fix will keep the Skeletal Dragons from attacking each other due to poison strike
     
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  18. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    Maybe this is the booze talking... but this made me lol irl :D
     
  19. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Master

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    It's not about you solo. Only one person can Honor. The rest of the group can make it quicker with EoO.

    Aside from you being able to instantly turn it off even with 0 mana player damage isn't doubled under EoO.

    No they are not. You can not claim to always get the Honor unless you are only hunting solo or in instanced areas or with a group that for some reason don't mind doing significantly less damage just for you. (Which would be like saying Bushido is worthless because I only hunt Dragons and always have a Dragon Slayer so I'm capped out). Current Doom is a perfect example. People skip rooms they can't be bothered with like the Flesh Renderers and go camp out the next one ready. They also get there first. They also Whirlwind when multiple spawn. At any champ spawn I could (and quite often have) played a Stealther that jacks the champ at the end.

    The bonus from Chivalry is not under the same cap as the damage you get from skills. There is damage from items, damage from skills/stats, and damage from spells (EoO/Perfection/LS) You have can 120 Tact/Anat and 100 LJ and still do more damage with Chivalry than without it.

    It's only unsafe if you don't know the mechanics of it. Speed of finishing an encounter is a factor as already explained if for example you were trying to kill a champ you raided before they grouped up/got more people and come back. Also, the longer you take in any fight the more consumables you waste, which equates to more time wasted gathering them. Yes we can all farm/buy 10000's of everything but people with limited time aren't really going to want to bother with that.

    This is nothing to do with Chivalry and can be done with or without it.

    You can use other skills and items and Chivalry and do more.

    But you don't, that's the whole point, you can throw 100k on Tithing and your good to go for a very long time, you also don't have to worry about your stuff being looted or decaying somewhere you can't retrieve it or resupply without leaving.

    Except you haven't actually posted what you are running.
     
    #19 Lord GOD(GOD), Feb 19, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  20. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    Too lazy and inebriated to quote each part individually... sorry :(

    I see your points, I like them. Thank you for showing me that it's not really worthless(for anyone else who runs with me). Now, I always get honor because I have a luck cap suit & for some reason RNG loves me and I never miss, my friends know this, so they want me getting KB because I can get the most luck on any kill with the bonus from honor. I also for the most part only run with people who I've been gaming with for 10+ years. I used to be a sponsored gamer, playing games was my 2nd job from age 17-24, they know I'm good, they know I'm gonna do everything I can to get the most out of my character, so they trust me with honor. I know this isn't the case for most people & I realize I was kinda just being a jerk by saying Chiv is totally worthless now(the things the drugs and booze do for your mind).

    As per the template, because you said something:

    120 Swords
    120 Bush
    120 Parry
    120 Tact
    110 Anat (+10 soldier's medal)
    120 Healing
    10 Focus(gotta use those extra 10 somewhere :D)

    If I am running with a different setup than just me and my main 1 other person, I will put on LJ in place of healing and get 30 focus and have friends that heal me...

    Essentially, I am a straightforward swordsman, similar to the old 7x GM build but I ran LJ always with that way back when and focus instead of bush for obvious reasons(didn't exist)

    I use double axes & bladed staves only to utilize the CA damage as much as possible.

    Before I realized I don't need the Chiv pretty much ever, I was running:

    120 swords
    120 bush
    100 parry
    120 tact
    100 anat
    95 healing
    65 chiv(exactly enough to 100% cleanse/remove curse)
     
  21. Finley Grant

    Finley Grant Babbling Loonie
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    Ifyou are that good. Why u are wasting 10 Points in Focus instead of Using a Cameo which gives you Slayer which you would Not need in the weapon, OR you use 2 superslayers which Stack.

    Furthermore you say you use max Luck suit and the honor.
    Well it would be more clever to let someone else with less Luck honor.
    From what I know Luck is used from one random Player hitting the Boss. Means you with around 3k having 2 Frieds with 0 is Not a clever move. Better would be all having 2k
     
  22. Dizzy

    Dizzy Lore Keeper
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    I'm enjoying the discussion (though not always the tone); I've been playing UO for nigh 17 years now and try to play a variety of templates. I wish soulstones had appeared years earlier because I dropped skills then I wish I had.

    But I don't play often or as long, and I'm way behind on tech. For instance, my crafter has 120 imbuing but I've never crafted a thing useful, just have a collection of runic hammers gathering dust. I've relied on legendaries from treasure hunting.

    I've been willing champ spawns lately and looking to retool. I really enjoy EoO and the ability to heal with Chiv right after resurrection when I don't have bandages available, but this thread is tempting me to try without Chiv (and Focus, I know) and add LJ, Bushido, and/or Parry.

    So thanks for the details, please continue.

    Sent from mTalk
     
  23. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Crazed Zealot
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    I'm waiting. It can be standard UO log file (Pinco's UI logs damage) or it can be a video - what is more convenient to you.

    If you want also compare damage with and without Chivalry choose a monster without slayer. For example, Paroxysmus, Virtuebane, a master from Blackthorne, etc.
     
  24. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Crazed Zealot
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    Here is my math:

    Even super fast monster need 1.25 sec to swing. With 120 Wrestling it hits 50% of swings. With 120 Bushido and Parrying you block 40% of hits. So (in such conditions) you block 20% of its swings.
    Even if you have 0ms ping, use a script that auto reactivate special move and don't use other spells/skills/bandages you can increase your damage only for 20%.
     
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  25. Fwoosh

    Fwoosh Visitor

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    That is not how luck works on almost any mob. The only place that works is in places with the doom loot system where it is points based, and even then the person with more luck will get an item more quickly than the person with less luck. So as long as you have the person with highest luck get the killing blow you will always get the most loot, be it gold, legendaries, or a chance at a drop.
     
  26. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    You're gonna be waitin' a while. I work 12-16 hours 7 days a week & my little bit of time off yesteday (not even at home, mind you) was mostly spent litigating & making deals. I will eventually get around to it, I will eventually show you that I see 2.5s quadra strikes + the intermittent 1.25s double strikes.Who needs a script to keep **** turned on? CA can run while you are casting plenty of other spells & using Specials and bandaids. Do you actually know how the ability works? Have you ever used it? It's beginning to sound like you don't actually even know what counter attack is.

    I ping 6 to Legends, I have the reaction time of a god I guess, but my CA is back on the second it goes off. I play in EC, I don't have the capability of using a script... and using a macro for spamming CA every 1.25s would screw EVERYTHING else I am doing, so no... You are, simply put, wrong. I wasn't #1 Enhance in the world in WoW for 10 years for no reason, I play games to win, I play to do the most damage possible, and I play to carry and support the people with me. It's called muscle memory & hand eye coordination. If I am in a fight with any boss, my left hand never gets a break until it's dead because I actually have to hit CA every 2.5s at least and keep DS and Onslaught going to maximize damage. I do not speak during bosses, people will talk to me, I will listen and do what they ask, but I do not speak unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary because I am counting in my mind constantly and have a rotation based off that counting that optimizes my DPS.

    In regards to Cameos, I have done well over 1000 SG runs, solo and with Fwoosh. All with maximum luck, not a single cameo to date. Not seen a single Cameo for sale on the shard, I don't transfer, and I never will just to buy some garbage I can get eventually. Yes, I can possibly increase my damage, change my gear, and change my template once I have the availability of Cameos, but it wouldn't even be an upgrade in any way. If anything, it might be a side grade that gives me equal damage with a different weapon that I have to waste time making for basically no reason other than "I wanna show off my new cameos!" The only thing that could make my char any better at this point, is more t5 reinforcements. I'd part with my current set for 5p and no less, with all the weapons includes, maybe 10.

    I didn't spend 16 days making my suit, 18 days making my weapons, and the past 8 years adjusting my templates and timing my attacks to the tee for nothing.

    This thread has gotten out of hand though, and I'm done, chiv is worthless to me solo and my group. And, since you seem to want an example so badly, Parox(100k hp) takes me and 1 other person appr 1.8-2 minutes seconds to kill without a single chiv spell, SE(25k hp) takes appr 1-1.5 minute due to the add spawn because I refuse to self honor(I suppose you're gonna say I'm bad for this too eh, even though the adds take 1-2 hits to kill?), DH (50k hp) takes 50-60 seconds, do I need to add the rest of the no slayer bosses? Is that too slow for you? lol, ****ing ridiculous that adults can be so impatient. Oh, last thing, Doom gauntlet + 2-3 DFs post pub 96 takes us 10-15 minutes with 0 deaths using 2 whole people.

    I think I'll go back to lurking the warrior threads and just laughing at how bad and clueless 99% of you are. I'll take my knowledge elsewhere to forums that respect my knowledge and know that I am brilliant when it comes to the math that is involved in UO Melee combat.

    Edit: Since I forgot, Luck is based on killing blow on every single monster in the game aside from the Doom Gauntlet which accrues points for every person involved with the point count being increased by luck & top damage. The top 3 damagers get a boost, but #1 gets the biggest boost in points & with max luck one can easily get an artifact every 1-2 kills. Or was that not explained well enough by every wiki ever for UO? No need to be upset tho.
     
  27. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
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    But IF you want to use Chiv, how high should it be?
     
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  28. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Master

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    Or to paraphrase:

    "I am the best player in UO and you are all not, only I have access to some mystical secret game mechanic that only exists for me and my (probably fictional) friends, I laugh at you all for not knowing the mystical secret and will avoid telling any of you what it is and go off on a massive angry ranting tangent rather than admit the obvious that I'm talking out of my arse. I desperately need counselling but I think that admitting it is a sign of weakness so instead will troll people on a message forum while failing to realise they don't care as much as I do. I'm also CEO of all companies make a squadrillion a year from home, cage fight in my spare time, can bench press the world, and have 1000's of pornstar fb's that are all impressed af with my UO skills. I talk about being drunk and on drugs when called out for sounding like a massive tool. I probably also wear sunglasses at night, a baseball cap backwards and permanently have a cigarette hanging from my lip just because I'm so #badass #childofthe80's #yolo #swag #respectmyauthortai! #Idon'talwayshashtagmyhashtagsbutwhenIdopeoplemakememesoutofthem."
     
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  29. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Master

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    Depends on the rest of the build and where you intend to hunt, anywhere from 65 to 120 works, if you were hunting Doom for example I would go 120.
     
  30. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
    Professional Stratics Veteran The Squirrel Empire

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  31. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
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    Another question: what would be the benefits of havin 120 chiv at doom, compared to, lets say 100? Thank you!
     
  32. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Master

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    The damage increase, duration, reliability and success chance with all spells is higher at 120.
     
  33. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
    Professional Stratics Veteran The Squirrel Empire

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    Ok, thanks again.
     
  34. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Crazed Zealot
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    To DS with CA you must activate DS after your regular hit and reactivate it again after CA has been released.
    If CA has been released in 20ms after your normal hit you have no chance to reactivate DS. Without special move CA does 2x less damage.
    If CA has been released in 20ms before your normal hit you have no chance to reactivate DS. Without special move your normal hit does 2x less damage.


    I wanna see how you do 1k damage per second although it's a bit off topic.
    And back to topic I want to see how fast you kill them solo. We discuss here your damage, not your mate damage.
     
  35. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    Try your math and random timeframes again, some people have perfected the art of timing things and get 0-6ms ping 99.99% of the day. Put on CA & DS with a keypress of both buttons at the same time using a longer finger for CA and a shorter finger for DS. For CA to activate DS, you simply have to have DS queued as the next hit, I have never seen more than my ping worth of time where I didn't have either of those buttons pressed and ready to go, 20ms is laggy and I wouldn't be playing with that garbage(no offense to people who ping normally, I understand because I also used to have garbage internet)

    1k damage per second with 2 people is fairly easy to achieve... Honor person does 250/250 DS with onslaught and person without chiv or honor does 200/200 on average, then you add the bonus damage from LJ that boosts that to 280/280 or so and 325/325 or so, then theres the 2 hits from CA constantly going off.... Hell, theoretically 2 people with LJ in the build and properly made weapons could actually get closer to 2k dps. Always use 2h axes for non slayer bosses anyway, easy to achieve ssi cap because you can just put some ssi on the weapon in place of slayer... Or you can just have 10/10 from jewels, 10 from legs, 5 from city trade deal, not need the ssi on weapon at all, and use them for EVERY boss. Next you're probably gonna try and tell me that I can't do that because I'll miss 5% of the time by default, also not true. RNG loves me(not when it comes to drops) and I admit; that is luck, but I typically miss half of a DS once or twice out of every fight I do.

    Solo, I kill them in just under twice the time because the other person that doesn't have honor and never does as much as me, isn't there!

    But seriously, I said it multiple posts ago. I see how you all see Chiv as being useful, I see that 65 is probably the best to run if you are utilizing remove curse/CBF/dispel evil and want 35% extra damage, 80 is a negligible increase unless you cannot make elemental weapons and need consecrate, 100-120 is GREAT if people wanna waste 120 points to do 80% more damage that doesn't really count for anything to me because speed isn't an issue without it. I understand that it is useful to YOU and not to ME. That is all I asked in the first post, I was given multiple reasons why it was useful to other people, and I did argue those points, but I also told you multiple times now that I'm not against it for other people, just for myself. I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone else, I have plenty of people that have seen me kill everything alone and with them.

    Thanks for the answers, I'm seriously gonna walk away this time.

    Cheers
     
    #35 Herp!, Feb 21, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  36. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    Interesting discussion, but please keep the personal comments and side swpies at a minimum please.

    Chivalry isn't for everyone. If you can make a successful build without it, go for it. Just like not all Tamers need Vet in order to be successful and so on. That's the beautiful thing about UO - you can cater your skill templates to your preference of what works well for you and what doesn't.

    I have a Sampire that does fine with just 80. I have a Paladin that runs 120. My two archers run 100 each. My thrower currently has 100, and I was contemplating taking it to 120, but we'll see... it's a grind to work up past 90 without eating pink scrolls.
     
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  37. Demethar

    Demethar Visitor

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    Right now, I am testing 120 chiv on my Sampire. Template is heavily relying on skill bonus jewelry of course. Skills are listed below.

    120 Swordsmanship
    120 Bushido
    120 Tactics
    60 Parry
    99 Necromancy
    110 Anatomy + 10 from ring
    91 chivalry + 29 from ring and bracelet.

    My toon uses Double Axes mostly, and he has 20 SSI and 183 stamina. And if I take one too many hits, I'll be swinging my Double Axe down from 1.25 to 1.5 seconds. I plan to rely on Divine Fury during such situations. However, after a few days, I am having second thoughts.

    Without having any FC/FCR in suit, Divine Fury takes too long to kick in. Even when I tried it with FC2, it was somewhat limiting. I cant begin to imagine, building around a Dragoon suite with FC2 and waiting that cast every 20-23 seconds. It's a horrifying thought.

    Having an on demand SSI boost button was a cool idea, but it isn't working as good as i would prefer.

    Even after saying that, I'll still claim Chiv isn't a bad skill to invest. For a dexxer, it's better than stuff like Spellweaving. However, only for a casual player like me.

    For someone with more time and resources, (by "time" i mean more than 2 hours a day and by resources; FC4/FCR6 on your suit, while maintaining all the other usual biz) it will serve you even better.

    Lets be honest with this. If you are not a poor bloke like me, and you are at legendary-artifact-on-all-slots level, wouldn't you just dish out "one more" Double Strike, instead of removing that pesky Curse? Hell, if it's a stat debuff, you can ignore it by overcapping your STR/DEX by greater pots.

    What the hell have I been saying, I got cats to feed.

    Edit: I think this game needs more bosses without slayer vulnerability.
     
  38. Santos

    Santos Journeyman
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    Did you seriously just brag about being the best in the world at a video game?
     
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  39. Herp!

    Herp! Journeyman

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    Yeah, I got big money for being the best in a game. I'll brag about being the best any day of the week. I spell my name A r r o g a n t.
     
  40. Zalan

    Zalan Crazed Zealot
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    So, did you try my template out? And make any improvements to it?
     
  41. Santos

    Santos Journeyman
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    Hahahahahaha