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Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Baby Doll, Aug 17, 2012.
That's a thought. What if instead of carrying the sponsoring guilds tag, they just ally with them? That way they still have the advantage of communication through alliance chat, but can work on establishing their identity. ?
The other thing I am concerned about is that the guild being sponsored not get the ire of any enemies of the sponsoring guild. I think the idea is good, but maybe we need to Iron out some details as a community.
Yeah I think in general this is a good idea though definately needs to be discussed and ironed out. I also like th idea of allying rather then actually being guilded. Though I can see how that would be a problem with a guild in factions. But ideally in most cases I think allying would be better. That way they still have their own guild name and it would be easier to establish their own reputation. Because if they have the sponsoring guild's guild name people are going to think of them as that guild. So once they leave they would not only have to establish their own reputation but would also have to deal with already having a reputation that perhaps doesn;t represent who they are. But yeah some way to help guilds come over here and get out and about earlier I think would be nice and may help encourage more guilds to make the change to Siege.
Yes I do agree. I guess I4NI can ally up with incomming guilds who want to go factions. New guild just joins COM.
Yeah, the devil is in the details, but I think it's an idea worth exploring
Hmm talking to at least one person in ARR they seem reluctant. I do agree no more crafters nothing against them but we seriously need more fighting types and pvm types. Yeah I will have to think on it some more how to make it work and all that. My main concerns are really the sponsored guild becoming too attached to the sponsoring guild and becoming too apart of that identity. I think assisting guilds would be cool but they also need to assist themselves as well you know what I mean?
I am more then willing to help support this idea so if it does takes place give me a shout I'll help a bit to get people started up.
Honestly - Why do we need to do this?
Anyone see that Catskills guild? They are doin amazing on their own.
New single players who come over can join and get assistance from NEW2 as well as other players they meet with in-game. What if a incoming guild had a tag of XFR1, XFR2, etc... meaning transfer guild(number). They'd have their own identity for a while and be immediately recognizable to established guilds/players. Maybe give them a 2 or 3 month immunity from pk similar to those that sport the NEW2 tag. They could be assisted by any like-minded guilds or even allied. After their 'protected' status is up they could change their guild name and see where it goes from there.... And yes the new Cats guild is doing fine on their own, hope you all stay for the long haul!
I don't give immunity to anyone and I know others don't as well. NEW2 has gone to the wayside in my eyes.
Because they are just ONE group,albeit larger than usual, and we have seen this sort of thing before in the past where they usually end up giving up for one reason or another. VV was the last example. We need even more guilds here to boost and diversify the population further.
I actually think this is a pretty good idea. I have always thought that with the Siege population being as low as it is, what we really need is whole guilds to make the move across rather than just relying on individuals, and this may help do that, particularly if Petra is willing to announce such a program on Uhall like she did with the sponsored housing thing a couple of years back. We have seen what a big difference just one new guild/alliance makes, so anything that may help get a couple more is worth a try.
As has been mentioned though, the biggest problem is a sponsoring guild being comfortable with those they are helping, and the danger that like-minded guilds will tend to stick together permanently. But really what's important is to just get more people on Siege, so I think the latter consideration is secondary.
I think that the best way for the program to work would be something along the lines of:
a) Willing Siege guilds announce themselves and make sure each knows what the other finds acceptable in a sponsored guild. For instance, for Gilfane this would probably mean i) no use of gratuitous profanity in alliance chat or Vent, ii) no obvious using of cheat programs or discussion of such in alliance chat or Vent, iii) no PKing of NEW members.
b) Any prospective guild would post on the forum with something about themselves and the answer to certain stock questions, such as their interest in PvP, PvM, crafting, RP, etc.
c) The sponsor guilds would then discuss among themselves who would be willing to take on the job, based on suitability and who is already working with a guild.
d) The chosen Siege guild would then contact the prospective guild and establish any rules of conduct they may have. If the two parties were uanble to reach agreement, then return to step (c).
e) The new guild would form, using something like the $ sign in their name and the first letter of their tag (e.g. $ Wanton Destruction [$WD]) and ally with the sponsoring guild, if required. The sponsored guild's members should always have their guild tag showing.
f) The period of sponsorship would be similar to that of NEW: approximately one month or until the new guild felt that they were ready to go it alone. They would then form a new guild without the $ tag.
They have told us they are just here to see if they can get a 2nd house. So I doubt they stay long.
I know I'm new here etc, but in my personal experience starting on siege is hard and overwhelming. My guild (B^L) and my allianced guild (|v|) were lucky enough to have 12+ people come and we have all been helping each other out. If our teams were much smaller, say 2-4 people... we would not be having a very easy time at all.
Being new I can't do much to help yet, but if you guys get anything in the works when I am able to assist I will.
That sucks. They are very good players and the ones I have met are quite likeable.
The Catskills crew? We aren't going anywhere =) Not even after 50 houses!!
Well, I was told you guys were building chars in hopes to have a 2nd house.
Starting on Siege is not too hard. Its all about knowing what to do. I recently came back to UO after a 5-6 year break, in which I came back to play GL for about 6 months, then was a 2 year break before that from when I played Siege. I sat there and trained skills in a crappy LRC suit, then got an imbued suit and I farmed the solen quest soo much. I made a few mil off selling the powder and the gems from killing the ants. Then I farmed shame for loot.. Did a few group spawns with people who I fight everyday I see them. Even Rizu started with nothing and had a few mil pretty quick from doing solens and farming leather. Since then, its just spanned. In 2 months, we have made enough gold to upgrade 2 accounts to SA/High Seas/Rustic Pack and we have over 20 soulstones between the two of us through just gold. Its all about knowing what to do and how to go about it. We had a little help along the way, but in the first month we didn't have much help and made it just fine on our own. Its really not hard to start over with nothing, long as you know what your doing. I had no idea how imbuing or anything worked... Anyone coming from Prodo who has played regularly for the past year should easily be able to establish themselves.
Well my idea is a lil different. I would perfer they be up and going with in about 2 weeks. I have no interest in hand holding for months. So my strange lil idea is:
Incomming guild of 5: Each char. pick your template and raise your 7 skills to 70. With out going into more items for imbuing we can cheaply get 26 skill points on jewels to bring fight skill up to 96. Close enough to GM level.
Two parts here:
One: Sieges Guilds/community enforcement. I propose the thought of a weekly Dungeon safe spot from PKers. From day one they can be attacked by anyone, anywhere, anytime, however if they are in a safe dungeon they can go on about thier skill raiseing. Also helps out single players.
Each supporting guild would take turns picking a safe spot. So say week one. GIL wins the role to start it. GIL picks DOOM. Doom becomes the only safe zone for that week. Also I think it should be a safe zone for all. So that supporting guilds can go in and assist ALL NEW GUILDS in there. All guilds protect that dungeon from griefers.
Sweet thing here is, not only are new guilds raiseing skills but they are getting to know everyone. Newb to Vet. BUT think of the DOOM arties that would flow out. Each supporting guild gives newbies a vendor spot to sale what they dont want. Siege vets may get a few more Ornies. New people get thier gold for the work of it.
Second week say Arrr picks Navery spot only, how many Tangles and Night eyes could hit the market in a weeks time?
Two: Reason to be allies. Again in first couple weeks new guild should be running with supporting guilds. If supporting guilds are doing a champ spawn new guilds better be there doing what ever they can do. A guild of 5 can move a spawn along faster. If raided there is no special treatment given you simply assist supporting guild best ya can. They stand, fight, flee, or die with supporting guild. Get out with the power scrolls divide them out however ya see fit. Now your getting the power scrolls ya need and raising skill and pvp experiance.
This the most successful method of coming to Siege and making a name/place for yourself. Come as a crew/guild. It is a proven winner.
Ok I really like something like this. I totally agree I am against hand holding for monthes at a time. Even when they are being sponsored they aught to be assisting with hunts and fights. And yeah the idea of a weekly safe dungeon sounds cool. I would add too that you should not be able to pick the same dungeon or bossmonster week after week. Actualy aftera dungeon or bossmonster has been done imo that should be that for the month. That way we donlt end up with guilds collarborating just to make their favorite hunting spots safe the vast majority of the time does that make sense? Of course I could be worrying about nothing but still *shrugs* But yeah I am all for assisting guilds but yeah excessive handholding and babying them not for that! eheh
Seriously... If a crew comes here and means to stay... they can do so as long as they wish.
Siege is not some bad ass mysterious place.
Yes we know this discussion I think is to try and encourage these guilds to come over in the first place and to stay. I agree Siege isn;t some bad mysterious place. But doesn;t change the fact we need to get more guilds of people willing to make the change to this shard.
Oh, well then I'm leaving.
I know you did not agree with the way I handlede the NEW2/IDOC case but as this players was going after the plot and not just some nice loot I saw no other way to handle it like an arana, anyone going there is on their own.
I would like to get us all to agree about a way to handle next large IDOC vs NEW2 memmbers who wish to take part in it.
When they was going for the plot, it was not fair to let the NEW2 tag protect them but on the other hand, If they was going without the protection, they should be allowed to fight like all others.
Maybe I did a mistake and should have let Ian and L'ara resign from NEW2 but it's to late now. Now the guestion is, how do I handle it next time?
I believe we do need more crafters on the shard, as good shops are needed for both PvM and PvP players but I think they should start in NEW2. If a whole crafter guild should start, they can still start in NEW, same with PvM guilds.
It's a different case with new PvP guilds as they many times have trouble with the rules in NEW. I doubt they will need the protection from the tag but they will need help to get start gear, LRC suit, spellbooks, skill jevelry, tools and spare suits. Here I think it will help to be allied to a guild with same playstyle as them and with access to some basic gear.
Hmm, I don't know. The beauty of this idea as I see it is a way of persuading a few medium/large groups of people to come over and give Siege a try by offering them the temporary support of one of the big established guilds. No, Siege is not that hard to get up to speed on, but the difficulty is giving people the incentive/inertia to come and give it a go. And when it comes to guilds, you need to be able to get the majority of them here and liking it. If the majority ends up going back to/staying on the production shard, then the others will likely follow.
The success of anything such as this will also likely hinge on being able to get Petra's support. Siege folk have been trying for years to entice people here through various methods, all with little success. The one big boost we had was a couple of years back when someone with gravitas (i.e. Petra) put her weight behind an initiative that gave temporary accommodation to anyone wanting to try out Siege. A lot of people came over to try Siege at that time.
The safe area idea seems unnecessarily complicated. For one thing this whole promotion will likely be fairly transitory; there would (hopefully) be an initial take-up by a few guilds and then the whole thing would die away. Secondly, it is not THAT hard on Siege to find safe areas to farm. And thirdly, any guild that is being sponsored by one of the PK groups would have a large part of their potential enemies removed from the picture anyway. If we do have a safe spot, I think it would be more beneficial just to designate a permanent area that grants immunity to all guilds using the sponsored tag. Say, Wrong dungeon or the first couple of levels of Shame.
As for the length of the support time, I am not sure how long that time should be, but it would need to be enough for most of the new guild's members to feel comfortable going it alone. I would suggest that is best left to the new guild and their sponsors, with a total period of time not exceeding one month. No doubt, like in NEW, there will be some who will be ready to fly the nest pretty quickly. Others may need a bit longer. And at the the end of the day, we are trying to get new people to stay on Siege for years to come, so one month of help doesn't seem too onerous.
Yeah true it isn;t really hard to find a safe area to hunt on Siege. Liked the idea though that it might bring more things like artis and shame loot and the like to the market. But that would only be assuming people would take full advantage of such a thing. Then actually put the stuff on the market versus just hoarding it for themselves. Not really sure if I like the idea of a permanent safe hunting spot either. Though IF we do something like that it should only apply to the sponsored guilds not everyone should be safe there. I also agree with Freja it would probably be best for those guilds that are mostly crafters or pvmers to join NEW that guild is set up well I think to deal with those groups. But yeah for pvp groups the rules of NEW might be to restrictive for them. They may want to get out and fight right away. But they will need basic equipment to do so and that can be where the sponsoring guild comes in to help them out. I also agree the amount of time these guilds will need will vary but yeah no more then a month seems a good idea. The idea would be to give them a boost get them out on the field alot quicker then they would be able to on their own. But a month especially when you are being given extra help should be plenty of time to get trained up enough and to acquire enough gear/stuff to be able to stand on your own fairly well.
Yeah having someone with respect and weight in the uo community like Petra announce this would be important I think. Also if any of these new people from other shards are well known where they come from it may also help for them to announce this on their own boards as well.
If we get something like this started, I will donate 20 million gold to the cause of helping players new to Siege get started.
Yes , I see and agree with most of your points. The Safe dungeon idea is ALOT of hassle. I was thinking about what was the needs of a guild are and fastest way there. A guild needs armor (safe spot Shame/Wrong), guilds need fast GOLD/arties (safe spot Doom: sale arties/keep) and so then guilds need power scrolls so Champs spawns(supporting guilds). Was hopeing overflow of items would hit the market for Siege community. But totally agree on level of difficult. If ya have another way of getting these things to new guild faster, cool what is it?
Also I ( I4NI ) are not interested in a year long program. If we host a guild we are thinking 1- 1 1/2 months TOPs. I am hopeing if established guilds really do this, they consider making this a one time deal for now. If we get this together and it works out sweet. We can come back to it.
Again these are all just thoughts. I appreciate the constructed criticism!
Just not sure what your trying to say here.... please elaborate on it! I would think its a given fact that if people wanted to come here to Siege and stay, they would do so!
Yeah the issue is many either donlt come or those that do well a large portion of them leave. Thats why we are discussing these things we need to find a way to encourage guilds of people to come over here and for a good portion of them to stay. Now if the housing thing goes through that on its own will bring alot of people. But I wouldn;t hold my breath on that so we need to do what we can do to encourage people.
Ok let's see how this idea goes. Lets dump vet guilds being allies to new guilds.
Ok what if the community of Siege would back a 5 week long Safe dungeon crawl senario:
I am just throwing numbers out here. I am thinking it would take a guild about 2 weeks for basic skills so they could actually go out into the world of Siege!
So 3 weeks left: Lets do a safe dungeon for all people.
Week one (or wk.3). Say Wrong/Shame (not sure here) dungeon is safe zone. All vets who can step in and help any newb in there get armor stock up do so. And newbs work ongoing skill gain.
Week two (wk.4), DOOM is safe zone for one week. All who can assist do assist. Now newbs are getting arties and can sale as well. Skill should about now close to needing power scrolls.
Week 3 (Wk5) , what about for one week >>> Dispise is last and final safe zone. get all your power scrolls while ya can.
Now if a guild wanted to come here in a month and a half they could get thier own stuff (with a lil help from the community of Siege).
<sarcasm> how about a gold sink fund to pay players to stay here? </sarcasm>
I wonder if any guild ever asked for something like it ever that would make them come to Siege?
...sorry, I'm respecting the catskills yay, my old home shard players for earning it themselves. Additionally the more you do by yourself to establish on Siege, the higher the chance you will bond and stay. Giving up you own hard work (and fight) is much harder than giving up something that was (hassle) free.
it't ment to be like NEW/2+ just for whole guilds then?
lol Cute I gotta ya!
Yes the thought is behind getting/enticeing guilds to Siege. If guilds would come, what is it that would make them want to come as a guild? More then anything just bull-****ting with others about what might be done. Also No not like NEW2. This for now would be a one time event kinda thing.
I'd say to most of the protected dungeon. I mean even some of us regular guilds can't do this stuff cause we are attacked. Why let them get away with stuff no one else can and manage to get stuff with no risk? They can earn their own stuff.
Oh Rumpy! You seriously do not have to worry about such things really happening! Most who have posted on this thread are just giving opinions about what may and may not work about an idea. I started thread as a discussional topic, just wanted to see what people could come up with to better Siege. I guess I had a lil bitty hope that we could collectively come up with something good for Siege! Simple fact is the entire community of Siege just would never ever agree as one! We would all have to be like minded to pull off something of this magnitude. At least few people took the time to think about it and gave good feedback!
But hey let's all keep hoping for the best. Maybe by next year Siege might get lucky and another awesome guild will arrive here!
Yeah its almost impossible for us to agree on something lol still doesn;t hurt to discuss things. We just trying to find a way to get more guilds over here in this case particularly pvp guilds. And to get them on the field faster. I mean something as simple as offering them a suit and some skill jewels could go a long way towards getting them on the field faster. And the idea I think of having a guild sponsoring them was in addtion to starting gear the idea that the sponsoring guild would do spawns and hunt with them and help them gear and get scrolls a bit faster. I mean yeah it is perfectly possible to do it on your own. But having a temporary program like this might encourage more people to give Siege a try.
I could certainly go for the idea that there are no individual sponsor guilds for the newbies and no alliances (to existing guilds). Instead, let's say the guilds are just offered immunity from attack (unless they become aggressors) plus a promise of support from all major guilds, including equipment, access to their vents, advice and help spawning to get scrolls, etc. So yes. NEW for guilds really.
Now it seems there are some people that object to such a concept, so how about we do restrict the time to only two weeks as previously suggested? Surely it is worth the sacrifice of a few kills to maybe bring more people here. After all, without this promotion they almost certainly wouldn't be here in the first place.
Put another way:
Option a) Guild(s) comes to Siege and is given two weeks of support/immunity to establish themselves and MAYBE stays around permanently.
Option b) Guild(s) don't come to Siege.
PS. The immunity would only be for the new guilds, not anyone working with them unless they chose to take sides in a raid.
I think their guild leader will need to agree to a set rules much like NEW rules and then they are added to a thread here with their start dato and info about them.
Yeah I like this idea better then the one of guilds going with individual sponsoring guilds. Also yeah I think two weeks is a nice time. If most of the guilds on Siege are assisting them that should be plenty of time for them to get on their feet and stand on their own. And yeah sure plenty of people have started Siege all on their own and have done quite well. But this might encourage those that have been interested in Siege but reluctant to start over from scratch and whatever. Not to mention they could still keep their guilds identity. But yeah as someone who hunts people sometimes I would be willing to give guilds a two week immunity and help them out in other ways. Because in the end that means more people for me to hunt and more pvp and more people on Siege in general.
As someone involved in the "success" of War's (the Catskills guild) recent experiment on Siege, I can give you some clues as to what made it possible.
1. Teamwork - We've known each other for years and have no trouble working towards a common goal. You can't buy this or make people do this, so I'll stop talking about it.
2. Home base - We had a Luna house: close to a gate, close to a bank. Not the safest place in the world, but since you can't recall, you have to have somewhere close to a transportation hub. Ours is big enough to store resources and suits for later use. If you want a guild to thrive on Siege, you should help them find one of these.
3. Money - Training is expensive, especially since you can't buy things like cloth and ingots from vendors. Scrolls break the bank, even at faction prices. You can harvest some things yourself, but that double or triples the time it takes before you can make your own gear. One of our guild members had a few mill, I sold a teleport tile set. If you want people to make effective characters, figure out a way to get gold into their hands. Maybe this would involve taking their money on a different shard and giving them some here. But 100k isn't going to cut it for a guild of 10+ people. Be creative. A few mill investment up front for months or years of competition later? Count me in.
4. Understanding the limitations and benefits of RoT - RoT is a blessing and a curse. New guilds need a detailed lesson on the way it works. The currently available articles on Statics and UO Guide are not enough. Give a man a fish, and he'll be full for the night. Teach a man to fish and give him an Alacrity and he'll be selling MiB's to you for the rest of his life.
5. Friendly general chat - UO is full of jerks. Surprisingly, Siege has just a few. When I needed something or wanted to buy something, people went out of their way to help. Some even straight up gave me stuff. This sort of thing gives you the feeling that Siege is really a community, which to be honest, is why I am still here. If you know someone is new, help them with what they are looking for. Try to hold off on the trolling for a few weeks.
6. Portal set - You can't recall on Siege (duh). So when you're a newbie, you must have a way to get around. Having a set of crystal and corrupted portals means all of Britania is just a few words away. If you're serious about getting a guild up and going, get a pair into their hands.
7. Commodity deed box - How do you get your resources to your house to train without one of these? 134 trips in your pack horse that gets killed by [Arrr] on the second trip? I think not. Having one of these is invaluable. Get one to your new guild ASAP.
8. Knowing where to buy things - "Where are all the Luna vendors?" Having gold doesn't help you much if you can't find things to buy with it. After 3 weeks, I can tell you where to buy anything you want. Maybe a list of useful items and where to buy them would be helpful. I.E. Full spellbook - Makoto moongate. Small forge - Skara moongate.
In short, in my humble opinion, protection from PKs is not what a guild really needs. If you have a team that can replace missing items when inevitable losses occur, you aren't as worried about dying. In fact, it's the thrill of loss that makes Siege more exciting. Instead, if you have a comprehensive plan to provide many or all of the above, you'll more than likely find guilds as excited about Siege as we are in no time.
Aye, I'm also better with Alcors way. We'd have to keep a thread open and administrated about the guilds/tags and the time they've started and "protection" ends. Of course renaming the guild/tag is something to keep an eye on.
A different attempt would be an "open Siege day" to show people/guilds around - offer a tourney even (or one after two weeks), maybe we have support for something like this from above *winks to EM Aurora*. Like a show off what you became after some weeks/a month of playing Siege.
Showing what makes us different from prodo shards...ok, no dry looting that day
Thank you for posting this. It is valuable info. Just not sure how to go about using it.
I kinda want to make this a Hall Of Fame Post... It is so right on.
To the other points, aren't those points kinda leading us back to a NEW2 kind of program which is currently having issues? I not a full backer on NEW2 program, but they have done some good on the shard. Not sure on the NEW2 status, if someone knows please enlighten me.