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Letter to the Devs: Scripting

Discussion in 'UHall' started by CatLord, Sep 29, 2009.

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  1. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    Dear Devs,

    I would like to thank you for the incredible work you have done so far... you restored the faith of many in our game... Ultima.

    I'm the average joe player and I have a request.

    For the past months the Alliance I'm in on Catskills which has over 150 players and way over 500 accounts has been having a blast...


    We took advantage that the scripting was off and went to Felluca... where we did spawns, harrower and pvped...


    You can call us a huge Zerg... I call us Family.

    I would like you to consider the following.

    A small random daily patch... so our scripting friends have alot of extra work and even if they get to hack the client, we still have most of the first hours of the server to hunt and enjoy our Game.

    My point is this...

    We all pay the same but we follow the Rules... they dont.

    The last months made many of the usual pvpers to vanish from the battlefield... a thumb up to those that stayed and gave us hell... that was skill...

    Now that the hacking is back... several generations of Ultima players, yup we're 12 years old, will simply move back to Trammel and look at Ultima with a sad, disgusted perspective...

    Finally... usually the argument is... without scripting, half the population would leave... I have two words about that...

    [​IMG] them

    Thank you.

    Your old player and enduring game tester...


    Please fix the faction, non-faction allied guilds.
    We could do it too and we know how unbalacing that would be... but our foes deserve to be respected, not exploited...
  2. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Jan 30, 2009
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  3. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Please protect the scripters, I don't want to see such awfully colored diagrams anymore!
  4. HeathBar

    HeathBar Guest

    When EA has it's own vendor search site maybe I'd support this.
  5. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    Did you read my post at all or the first one?
    I said he needs to learn how to do a harry.

    Scripting has been around for years and years AND years if you still cry about it now like half the people do you are either a total nub who just started and wants something to cry about or you just having a chitty day either way get over it they will still be there.

    I played this unknown shard once that is just like old school uo and it has 1k users on at any given time and you know what scripting is legal there but there are rules to it and no one there says they are going to quit or not go to fel and not take part in the best part of uo because of some silly guy running with a chug script are you nuts? Other then chug scripts honeslty what other possible application do scripts have in pvp? you tell me that sir or stfu about scripters.

    FYI the only place scripting is killing people is in tram dude...
  6. Speedhackers. Nuf said.

    No, that's not technically scripting, but it's in the same class, and is the biggest complaint of all PvPrs.

    And don't tell me to stfu. Unless you're carrying a bigger gun than mine, and standing right in front of me, big talk is cheap talk. :twak:
  7. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Dec 27, 2004
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    150 strong & you can't pvp on an armpit of a shard like Cats?

    That has to be damn near the saddest thing I have ever heard.

    I dont think Cats even has 150 active players so maybe some of your own sad alliance are logging on other accounts and killing each other off?

    *shakes head*
  8. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Thank you to the Fellies for once again going straight to the insults, and illustrating far better than I could the mentality that made the creation of Trammel a necessity to begin with.

    -Galen's player
  9. Yeah the comments slay me here. You have to think people like to name call to be important.

    Anyway.... isnt this an opportunity to see if all that speculated anti-scripting stuff is actually active.

    Ah well. Please someone insult me.
  10. Kymic

    Kymic Guest

    It's easy for you to say screw the scripters but you don't get a check each month from their subscription fees.
  11. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    Just defending the contract we all signed... and some are evading.
  12. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    Well how can one argue with such a well worded petition with choice phrases such as "screw them" and wonderful graphs and artwork that would make rembrandt blush?

    I love search sites.
  13. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    May 15, 2008
    Likes Received:
    It is funny to see how people are massively defending illegal scripting.
    "Learn to live with it, or use scripts yourself to compete."
    "Luna vendor search engines are very useful for shoopping."​
    Crap like that.

    What you all keep forgetting is that there's a simple reason why scripting and cheating is illegal:

    Unfair advantage!

    Translated for those who still don't get it: There is a majority of players who does NOT use scripts and cheats. Either because they are honest and don't want to break game rules, or because they are new and unexperienced, or they simply are not the type to research and dig into each piece of gaming mechanics in order to find an exploit. Those are the players who are penalized by scripters.

    Did you notice that since the Luna vendor search sites were out of business, suddenly vendors outside Luna noticed a strong increase of turnover? Did you notice that suddenly players went to Felucca who usually wouldn't go there? Did you notice that suddenly all those "cool" PvPers from certain guilds suddenly vanished or were killed swiftly?

    And who is whining now? Those who rip off other players with overprized items in their Luna vendor house. Those who cannot properly PvP without using scripts and cheats. Figures!

    You have to be either a damn ignorant or an impudent lier if you deny these facts on a public message board. Because of people like you, and because of the inability of the EA staff to solve these issues, UO hardly gets any new players.

    Discussions like these make me angry...

    P.S.: It is pretty naive to say that scripters are tolerated because of the subscription fee they're paying. If you'd remove scripters, you'd probably get 10 new subscriptions for each one of them.
  14. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    Just saw the old... "Sharing targets with guildchat system" working again...

    We still won the battle but only thanks to having 4 characters named Jamie...

    ... guess "it" went crazy making some of the raiders lose connection.

    Easy kills... that is what you get for cheating.

    I know... we're EBIL. What can I say?
  15. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Hmmh... There's no ghostcams anymore, neither hidden player cams. So there's no champ cameras anymore.

    Speedhack is around no matter how many patches.

    So the notnamed scripting program has been down, and it doesnt have a big effect in PvP.

    If you were able to do spawns etc. while it was down, you are for sure able to do em now.

    Only thing about that program in PvP pisses me is some people having instatrapbox...

    But speedhack and fieldhack frustrate me lot more then that.
  16. Kiljaedon

    Kiljaedon Guest

    Heh. It is sad to say this but the people who scream the loudest get the Dev attention so yeah he is going about the right way to handle this. All the people who defend cheating and those who just say they are not hurting you in any way need to be stomped down so the devs hear our voices.

    There is no defense what-so-ever against cheating. None. It is illegal and needs to be cracked down. Change the EULA to allow third party programs and you can shoot me down but until that time comes people who will actually have our voice heard need to unite and get the devs attention. After 5 years of hearing people defend the cheaters I have had enough of. I will be darned if I allow the cheaters and those who profit and defend them out scream me.
  17. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Why are they tolerated then if not cause of subscription fee? Cause they are such a nice guys?

    Like I quoted on other thread, even the developer or program we'r talking about here said that EA could EASILY detect the program, and it's ridiculous to say that EA could not detect it. He also said that it's actually so easy to detect it that EA prolly has marked all accs using it, and has noticed that approx 1/3 of all accs has used it.

    I realize that they don't want to start blantantly banning everyone straight away, since most of users would prolly just stop using it and continue without it if there was threat of ban, but how about it gives 2 warnings and then perm or something...

    I mean, if developer of the program says that it's easily detectable, I kinda believe it.
  18. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    On Catskills it was widely noticed...

    The raiders pvp ability decreased, some people went on "Vacations"...

    Missing the Shard Event from the Shadowlords...

    So obvious...

    Well... last night we fought and scripts were up again... raiders numbers are slowly increasing... but we won... :thumbsup:

    On Drachs, we just defended a Spawn and our raiding friends are mad!

    Careful when playing UO from Work.
  19. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    May 15, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Sometimes I have no idea what is going on in the minds of UO Developers. Unfortunately, they don't share much of it. Leaving your customers in the dark about so important issues will most likely have no positive effect on customer satisfaction.
  20. Splup

    Splup Guest

    With that I agree.
  21. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    Still, my friends, how can you lay a trap if you advertize it?
  22. I thought with the EC there were programs (or something) in place to keep people from using any 3rd party programs? I went to the site of one unsaid program and they only patched it for the CC (classic client). So, is it safe to say or assume, that the CC is the problem?
    I mentioned this before in another post because I got tired of watching people chug pots while they were afk because they forgot to turn it off, got tired of running into gravestones and trees when chasing people in Fel, just to watch them run through them, etc.
    I know I play 2d cause honestly, some things just dont look right in the EC, but if they can stop so said programs from running in the EC, whats stopping them from blocking them in the CC? Is it the fact most of us still play in 2d and if there were no 2d most would quit?
  23. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Other than most would quit yea but then if no 2d then the programs will be made to work with EC. Though using lua of EC makes many outside programs unneeded with a certain restriction. Though people who played around with the LUA of EC can better tell you how much modifcation is possible with that client.
  24. XLaCeDX

    XLaCeDX Guest

    "I played this unknown shard once that is just like old school uo and it has 1k users on at any given time and you know what scripting is legal there but there are rules to it and no one there says they are going to quit or not go to fel and not take part in the best part of uo because of some silly guy running with a chug script are you nuts?"

    Stop trying to compare something that those people are getting for FREE to something that WE pay MONEY FOR.

    Course they don't have a choice in what sort of service they receive.

    If that shard is so Great because they allow scripting then why aren't you There instead of here?

    "Other then chug scripts honeslty what other possible application do scripts have in pvp?"

    I saw a guy walk over candelabra in Tram Heartwood. I'd think that kind of cheat would also allow him to run over trees and other obstacles while pvping in Fel.
  25. XLaCeDX

    XLaCeDX Guest

    Trammies just need some more practice. That's what we are asking for here.

    If we could get a patch to UO every day or so to keep the script programs out, I bet we'd see Trammies actually take over Fel.

    We just need some time and practice doing champ spawns versus people who are forced to use their natural skill rather than scripts to play in Fel.

    It is also possible that some of the pks who currently rely heavily on scripts to get by in Fel might actually learn some real pvp skills if they have no scripts to lean on.

    It's a win win.
  26. Zuckuss

    Zuckuss Order | Chaos
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni K^S

    Aug 1, 2008
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  27. AshMoney

    AshMoney Guest

    Ok so u saw this guy cheat...that was no reply to his question...wat that guy was using, was NOT a script to walk over candelabras..he might have been using a script in heartwood, but not to walk over the candels...the running thru gravestones, trees, candelabras cheat, is NOT a script...its a completely seperate sort of cheat..
  28. The Fallout

    The Fallout Guest

    This is true. When the program was down, many people didn't play, many of those people pvp.
  29. Chadlo

    Chadlo Guest

    That's because everyone sucks at PvP on catskills. LOL so that's why they all script, and it's really a catch 22. The reason they suck is because they script, and the reason they script is because they suck! :) Moral, stop scripting learn to PvP.
  30. Corvak

    Corvak Guest

    I agree! Stop the scripting and let the honest players decide who controls Felucca.
  31. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    May 15, 2008
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    Interesting point. It actually may be true that most PvPers are currently busy with the new expansion features.

    However, it is a fact that (on our shard, and I assume on others too) lots of people use scripts/cheats/exploit to have an advantage in PvP. You all know what can be done, don't you.

    It also is a fact that scripts for getting ressources, filling BODs, completing quests, scanning Luna vendors, hurt the game at least as much. And don't say that the poor handicapped people need those. That's a lame excuse.
  32. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 1, 2008
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    Speedhacking is easily countered...just use the new client and hope you dont crash. :)
  33. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    Countered if you have 4+ characters with the same name on screen...

    We fought cheaters using this on Drachs for two nights...
    The first night they all lost connection when 7 Jamies (our war name there) showed up... and were killed, dead on the water...
    The second night they sent a scout first and decided not to fight... so much for Skill...
    Soon after they transfered from the shard... good riddance.

    We had the same episode once on Catskills...
    We showed up in 4 uss Baat'leb (our war name there) and two of the raiders lost connection... due to their numbers they changed tactics... but now that their number is increasing again... our plan is to have more of the uss stealth necro mages and see what happens...

    Again... having 6-9 necro mages, scripting this targetting system would be interesting... but very disrespectfull towards our foes... we refuse to go to their level. :grouphug:
  34. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    Hum... after you play this game for 12 years, you finish all the content, you join several pvp/merchant based guilds, you start looking at the fishy things...
    Resource gathering, bod filling, heartwood, pvm helpers... on the individual level.
    champ spawning control tools... on the team level.
    Everything that can make some millions... people will abuse the TOS.

    Plus, I never post without knowing all the facts and gathering extra info... it is fun to make others look silly and see them grow silent for some days/weeks...

    ... and I am getting old... you should have seen me when I first started this war on stratics, many years ago and I posted all the scripts titles on every shard board and the board previous to uohall... (it had another name)

    I got a warning and the posts got deleted... and the mods were right... most players were blind to how it affected UO and how it affected themselves on many levels... I had to wait four years to post such attack versus scripters again...

    So between ingame scripter-hunting, pvping with characters all named the same and alike, board wars, zerg alliances and the creation of a micro-economy on multi-shards, so we dont buy from scripters... I will always look for new ways to bug the players that make an unlawful profit from uo... hey, nothing else to do before I move to SA!
  35. In Flames

    In Flames Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Jun 24, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Just because "that one program" may have been the reason for SOME people to not PvP you can't just assume that PvP was dead BECAUSE of it is just as childish as the person saying that people whining about scripts are noobs.
  36. Sure. Right. Yeah. We believe ya. Really we do.

    Mind explaining why it is that even Draconi and the rest of the Devs have acknowledged that there is a problem with speedhackers and that they're working on a fix for it?

    It's really not nice to make fun of yourself. You might hurt your own ego. No one likes a bruised ego.

    Leggo my ego.:thumbsup:
  37. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
    Stratics Veteran Wiki Moderator Alumni

    Dec 17, 2006
    Likes Received:
    I agree with the mini patch daily.

    Ive sat in a few ventrilos on Chesapeake and honestly its only a handful of people. Most were not around when SA was on because they wanted to train imbuing and sell leet stuff. Thats the point. They need leet stuff to sell leet stuff and make gold!

    So most of the pvpers still showed but, I helped kill two pvpers that would normally drop me in a heart beat. I am not saying they were cheating but, everyone Chesapeake knows I die very easy and I kicked the snot outta em.
  38. Chadlo

    Chadlo Guest

    But in reality they probably took two skills off their main char like I did and had mystism at 65 and imbuing at 50 and where training. They showed up to raid you with 500 useable skill ppoints instead of the 720 and got owned. they just figured they could kll you easily as usual and were wrong.

    Good for you, but likely what actually happened :) good work tho I love it when someone that generally has issues playing well kills someone that is considered good. It's a great boost for that bad player and so funny to the rest of us cuz we can make fun of our fel friend that got owned :) Good job :)
  39. Hmm. That's funny. I didn't realize a week or 2 was "ages ago". :thumbdown:

    Right back atcha Sherlock. :dunce:

    I'm sorry, did you say something? :twak:
  40. Chadlo

    Chadlo Guest

    Wow interesting, yet you show no link to the post, just spout that it was a week or two ago. Which was it? A week? Or Two? Perhaps it was a year or two?
  41. Do your own research. Or do you not know how to use the search function?
  42. Chadlo

    Chadlo Guest

    Draconi said you were misinformed in a different post. He named you as being "a dumb head".

    See that? Anyone can make up a post... or did I? Do your own research.
  43. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    Chadlo, if you torture that logic any further it will die.

    Of course EA cannot ban valid assistive technology devices. Of course, though, the third party scripting tools that manipulate the UO data stream or decode its address space are not valid assistive technology devices.

    To put it more simply for you, a valid assistive technology device replicates the input capability of the non-impaired, it does not provide supranormal capability as do these scripting programs.

    Since you want to bring it up, disabled athletes are not allowed to use assistive technology (e.g., Cheetahs) that would provide an unfair advantage over the unassisted.

    If you really think EA is concerned about an ADA suit over a bunch of cheaters claiming they have to script UO because they have RSI, you are delusional.

    The main thing you have quite eloquently established in your posts is your endorsement of scripting. Duly noted.

    Have fun with your trolling.
  44. I hope you realize that the only thing you've proven to anyone is that you're all for cheating, and that you don't pay very much attention, but instead spout off whatever drivel pops into your head.

    Anything else you'd like to show us? :dunce:
  45. Chadlo

    Chadlo Guest

    Actually in order for a macro program to interact properly with UO to make it accessible to the majority of people with missing limbs it needs to decode toe address space as you put it. It is clear you aren't a programmer, your use of manipulate the data stream is a prime example, interacting with anything on a computer manipulates the data stream. That's like saying "Don't drink the water from that stream unless you can do it without manipulating it." you need to touch the water in order to drink it, by interacting with something you are manipulating it. You change it. Inherently when you ADD data (which is the act of say... MOVE CHARACTER FROM POINT A TO B you are adding data thus manipulating the data stream. Whether you do it with a mouse or a program it's the same thing).

    Uo Assist is a pro application that works directly with the data stream (which is why it is loaded first and then runs uo). It does not do the input through the game interface like you say. If they allow non-handicap people to interact with the game this way they have to allow handicap people to do so as well. Your argument (to put it "SIMPLY" for you) is biased and discriminatory.

    Really? Wow that would be relevant if we weren't talking about a video game. But since we are it really does matter. First of all the argument you bring here is not an apples to apples comparison. Let's go here for a minute, because while I am an activist for handicap rights, I agree completely with you. If I don't have legs, (like the runner you are obviously talking about) then I have an unfair advantage. In a sport against other people who do... their body has to feed oxygen to there legs and mine would not have to, which would give me A LOT more stamina. In this instance, the people with legs are handicap, and should be in the special olympics :)

    Now, back to the VIDEO GAME. Since you and other players use UO ASSIST which uses packet injection CURRENTLY to not allow handicap people to do it is the unfair advantage. Yes we require more than UO Assist can do because some of us don't have limbs and we need something to act as a mouse for us, which is why UO Assist is inadequate. This shouldn't mean that I can't play the game. Your argument is about data stream manipulation and decoding, yet the tool that is UO PRO does BOTH of those things. So unfortunately you are just wrong.

    I know they are concerned, that's why they removed the verbiage in the 30 days we gave them. I currently run an application I wrote, it is a 2nd party application and is not subject to the third party application rule. There are loads of handicap people that can't program who are forced to use 3rd party applications.

    I do ENDORSE scripting, what I don't ENDORSE is using scripts to AFK play, do things faster than humanly possible. I will always endorse scripting as long as it is necessary to make this game that I love and other people with handicaps love... accessible to us. I will fight for those rights every day, and just because you are intolerant you won't make me stop.
  46. Magdalene

    Magdalene Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    May 1, 2000
    Likes Received:
    Contrary to the OPs intentions (I believe) this thread is being hijacked towards glorifying scripting and related software (not to mention petty personal exchanges).

    Let's make it clear here:

    1. Using unapproved 3rd party applications is against the game TOS (no matter how you try to slice it, it is)
    2. Promoting activities that violate the games' TOS is against Stratics RoC - which you all agreed to follow while signing in here.

    CatLord, sorry, this cannot continue.
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