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@Mesana @kyronics : Is it about time? Non PK Pet advancements..

Discussion in 'UHall' started by celticus, Jan 27, 2019.

?

Pet Scroll advancements to come with non-PVP content? About time?

Poll closed Feb 26, 2019.
  1. a > YES! Add means to enable players to get pet skill advancements not requiring PVP/PK.

    16 vote(s)
    32.7%
  2. b > NO! Leave things as they are, allow Tamers to get PK'ed while doing Fel spawns!

    26 vote(s)
    53.1%
  3. c > Leave PS for player chars as PVP related, but ADD PET-Specific non-PVP requiring advancements.

    7 vote(s)
    14.3%
  1. chester rockwell

    Stratics Veteran

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    Does anyone else look at Malagaste's resume under the name and think.....how....in THE H*CK....does that person have all those "accolades" and whine this much?
     
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  2. It Lives

    It Lives Slightly Crazed
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    This whole thing would work a lot better if Uo still had a large population, as it stands now it is a cluster. Pet Upgrading should truly should have its own system and not depend on the antiquated PVP rewards system. The Pvp crowd will always cry foul and and so will the non pvp crowd. As is the current system does not suit any large % of either population= loss.
     
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  3. kaio

    kaio Lore Keeper
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    No need to go around and wonder, copy your tamer to TC1, and test away.
    I do enjoy playing my tamer, and no not many of my pets are scrolled to MAX. For most setups 120 wrestling and rest in 10's and 15's will do just fine.
     
  4. railshot

    railshot Lore Master
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    Well, I imagine the biggest reason why people use tamers to do spawns is that it's the tamers who have the highest demand for scrolls. Whose fault is that?
     
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  5. railshot

    railshot Lore Master
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    An enjoyable one?

    This is a sandbox. The point of a sandbox is that everyone has their own points. A large proportion of the player base collects absolutely non-functional trinkets that EMs drop here and thre. Who are you to tell them that they are playing UO wrong? And why is it not the point of UO to have a ton of different pet after a publish meant to bring variety to taming? And the cost? The cost is there. It's player time, and it's reasonable without PK's interfering.
     
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  6. Thoronnar

    Thoronnar Journeyman

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    The point is.... devs obviously made their choice about this long time ago. Look at new khaldun spawn, hint hint.

    And I agree with the devs. There's gotta be AT LEAST ONE big reward in the PvP system, and today that's PS on champion spawns. Period. That is literally the only big reward in PvP group fights. You have a gazillion of non pvp options to make money, hell specially if you have so many top pets.

    I do treasure hunts every now and then myself, a map or two when I am bored. Last month I got myself a bracelet that I sold for 500mil. I went to Andros last week and got a fire quiver. I barely PvM, and it still gives me enough cash to maintain my toons. Most of my money I get from trammie PvM, not spawns. Believe it or not, even though I spent 90% of my game time on PvP.

    What you are asking for is for an easier game. You just want to sit down and glitter to fall on your char.
     
  7. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    The idea for the original post was to see if some productive theory-crafting on the subject can be done to help the game survive tough times that are likely to be coming up. The pet revamp upgrades were obviously done to give the PVP folks a good part of the revamp, and boost PVP. Just wondering of the real cost to the game as a whole though. Please kindly control tempers, and try to refrain from attacking one another mostly unintentionally. Everyone's opinions are greatly appreciated!
     
  8. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    Agree, in away. They "obviously made their choice". Like so many other choices they have made in the game. Same miscalculated, poorly thought out choices and half-baked ideas, lol. Look around you, there are many. Many mistakes and mistaken assumptions. This is a glaring one. Take a non-PVP entity, and make it 100% PK dependent. Lots of people detest PVP/PK. Don't like the idea of supporting PVP/PK by buying PS at RMT sites where lots of these go, or in game. this is why they want to be able to get their own. But, as said before nothing will happen, and things will stay as they are, the cat is out of the bag..too late now. And the ears have wax, and eyes are blurry : They cannot see the writing on the wall anymore..:sword:
     
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  9. railshot

    railshot Lore Master
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    I agree the PvP should have its rewards (although some here try to convince us that they PvP for the love of PvP). And it does not have to be one big reward. Make a dozen. Hell, make a ton of them. The more the better. However, PvP rewards should not be done at the cost of unpleasant and undesirable interactions for PvMers. Here's an idea - put PSs in Ilsh and make Fel spawns drop PvP only arties. PvPers have something to fight over, and PvMers are left alone.
     
  10. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Master
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    I play in tram mostly but I do have pvp templates. My allegiance will always be to fel.

    There have been numerous threads right here on Stratics over my many years here on this very issue in which fel has asked for other ways to inspire pvp and we were always met with complete and absolute ridicule. We were told we were a minority and our paid subs don't even count. I can dig posts if you'd like? I guess the higher ups didn't take too well to all those statements either.

    No I don't think ilsh spawns should drop scrolls. I think the Turtle spawn in Eodon should be the only one to drop scrolls to force what's left of community back together. Players need to learn to share and work together instead of being the greedy bunch you've all become.
     
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  11. drcossack

    drcossack Crazed Zealot
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    Again, you're forgetting what year this is. The zerg guilds of the old days of UO no longer exist. I can think of two, compared to the old days when there were several on every shard...but there were also a lot more players back then. Other pvp'ers never leave Yew Gate. There is NOTHING stopping the Stratics Whiners™ from grouping up on EFFICIENT pvm templates and doing their own spawns. The pvp'ers don't care if people do out of the way spawns in t2a. If you do the high traffic ones (i.e. Despise, Destard, or Fel Oaks) you're going to get raided if you're spawning during primetime. If a pvp'er shows up at all, it's because they know the people doing the spawn are looking for a fight (whether it's because the raiders know the people spawning are pvp'ers, or because of the aforementioned location.)

    Why can't you get your own? Because of the pvp'ers? You can tell everyone else that until you're blue in the face...but we all know the real reason: You're too damn lazy to do it yourself, so you go to the forums to whine about it; you've been doing it for years and have no intention of stopping, no matter how many times you get told to get off your ass and work for them. Let me ask you a few questions:

    1) Do the pvp'ers whine about EM events, and their inability to get drops? I know one guy did on Legends, but he's well-known for raging. Answer: no, we don't.
    2) Do the pvp'ers whine about deco, Tram content, etc? Answer: No. We do complain (and rightfully so) about the imbalance of content between Tram and Fel, but we have every right to. It is that same imbalance that forces all of us to engage in pvm content we would otherwise never spend any time on. It is also that same imbalance of content that you love, because you can't stand that the pvp'ers have access to the few exclusive things they do...but why should we NOT get more content? Trammel has been given EVERYTHING since the facet split. That content imbalance is one of the reasons why pvp'ers are the apparent minority you claim they are; knowing what multiple dev teams have done, why should we continue to play this game? I know people like you LOVE that the pvp'ers have been getting the shaft for so long...all because of some incidents from back in the day where you got PK'd. It's 2019; get over it.

    I didn't like the Doom (or Shadowguard) grind when I was doing them, and I haven't done either in over half a year. Did I complain about having to do it? No. I chose to participate. You do not go to Fel to spawn, but you feel the need to dictate how others play? I really shouldn't comment given how often I've yelled at players on LS, but yelling at them for causing a cluster**** isn't anywhere close to the same thing as trying to dictate to people who have a Fel/pvp-oriented playstyle (which, by your own admission, you do not engage in) how they should have to play their game. None of the pvp'ers are trying to change the Trammel ruleset because they don't like it; if we ask for changes in pvm content, it's to things that affect the game as a whole, like corpse loot.
     
  12. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    Yep..I appreciate this, and I agree with Eodon Turtle dropping them. Thank you!
     
  13. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    I will dignify the above with this:
    Your playstyle..My playstyle..Their playstyle..etc..My playstyle by the ways is always going to Fel for all sorts of content including spawning for PS. I personally have not had big issues with PK. As said before, if you are reading the posts, the reds that came to one of my spawns helped me get the PS, we got double etc..So?
    Are we missing the boat? This is not about one or two players. It's about advancing the game by making it playable by others, and possibly increasing the game's lifespan. It looks like you are mostly concerned about your PK, not even about PVP. Real PVP does not involve PK'ing noobs and others unable to defend themselves, and un-interested in PK or PVP. You are purposefully missing a lot of points. Some of the posts are long, but take a little time to read them over, so that you know what is being discussed. What is being discussed is not PVP, but taking the "pet revamp" one small step further.
    They can try some of the recommendations here as an "event" perhaps 1-2 months, and see what happens. Instead of losing subscribers, as a test.
     
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  14. drcossack

    drcossack Crazed Zealot
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    Which, by my own admission, I rarely do. Because there's no point to it, for the reasons you (and I myself) stated. Missing the point? What point? Every time there's a thread about this (or powerscrolls in general), the "we hate pvp" crowd shows up. Either way, the Stratics Whiners™ will continue to complain about everything, while refusing to look in the mirror for the real cause of their problem. The pet revamp isn't it (although some parts of it could probably use some tweaking); in fact, scrolls on pets are, where pvm is concerned, almost universally useless - the only ones I'd really use (especially 120's) are Wrestling, Chiv, and Spellweaving. There may be a couple other 120's that can help a pet, but it's been a while and I don't remember what they are. The real problem is the lack of effort people are willing to put forth; they just hide behind excuses as to why they won't do the content: "I don't like it!" "I don't want to get PK'd" "I have nobody to play with" "I want to use my tamer instead of my sampire"

    all of that is nonsense: 1) Suck it up and do it anyway. 2) You probably won't be. It is 2019 after all. If you are, chalk it up to bad timing or whatever and try another spawn. 3) Maybe it's because of the person's personality *cough* - if that's the case, they need to work on it. If that's not the reason why, try networking and finding people you can actually play with. 4) Go ahead and use your tamer for a champ spawn. But you massively increase your chance of getting raided because the spawn is taking forever.

    Even with the enhancements pets have gained from the pet revamp, they are still VASTLY inferior to a player in pvm content. The only things pets can do better than a player is tank a group of higher-end monsters like Greater Dragons - a player cannot handle 3-4 at a time, while a high physical resist pet (with Consume Damage active) can easily do so.

    If people want scrolls for their pets, they can go out and get them. I got all of the scrolls currently on my characters for myself, and even used a few on some of my pets. Often without any "issues" like getting raided. Did I like the grind? Hell no. But it's faster (and cheaper) to get those things for myself. The same can be said for Shadowguard - I made well over 500m from it, with multiple Cameos sold. Each of those runs, start to finish, took roughly an hour. I can do several Champ Spawns in that same amount of time, but the likelihood of my getting the 120's that are in high demand is fairly low. With Shadowguard, all it takes is one run to hit the jackpot and get a Cameo, which is a very easy 100m+. In short, if you don't want to go to Fel to get scrolls for your pets (whatever your reason), fine. Don't. But don't complain about your inability to, at the very least, buy them when you have access to much more lucrative content with absolutely zero risk...content that would allow you to buy said scrolls without ever setting foot in Fel. If they aren't on your shard, do what everyone else does and go to Atlantic.
     
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  15. Stinky Pete

    Stinky Pete Journeyman

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    Since this post is still going on, and I haven't seen anyone mention it yet... A vote for scrolls in Tram is a vote for scripting! PKs are the only reason that people can't farm scrolls 24/7 while afk. I know that they still do, but once the PKs find them, they kill them, and their scroll farming operation is over for a while. By asking for scrolls in Tram, you are asking to be able to farm scrolls 24/7 with absolutely no recourse.

    Imagine this, you are doing whatever Tram spawn you like best. You're there by yourself having a great time dreaming about all of the scrolls you are going to get. As soon as you pop the champ, 15 throwers/archers appear from stealth, do enough damage to get looting rights, and go back into hiding. Now you have to share your scrolls with them. You say you are being griefed now... at least you have a chance of not being raided. If they put scrolls in Tram, you will be sharing your scrolls with scripters. Every. Single. Time. But hey, at least there would be plenty of scrolls available, right?
     
  16. railshot

    railshot Lore Master
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    It's no more of a vote for scripting than having Doom, Shadowguard, and any other PvM content in Trammel. The scary scripters are able to farm Roof 24/7, and yet, somehow, cameos still cost an arm and a leg.
     
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  17. Stinky Pete

    Stinky Pete Journeyman

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    I agree that all of that stuff should be moved to fel as well.
     
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  18. petemage

    petemage Certifiable
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    Not really. Its GMs not PKs who enforce the ToS when it gets enforced. Spawns are too much of a hot spot to get away with 24/7 scripting. I'm sure GMs would catch them there. But I never seen a 24/7 scripter at such an hotspot.

    The second part is also nothing but scaremongering. By your logic bosses like Navrey would have been camped by 24/7 scripters, yet I never saw one single obvious case there.

    The PKs never effectively stopped anyone from scripting, as proven by the huge amounts of ressource scripter in fel (back when it was a thing).
     
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  19. railshot

    railshot Lore Master
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    I am sure you would. Because of scripters, right?
     
  20. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Master
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    They were according to M**a lol.
     
  21. drcossack

    drcossack Crazed Zealot
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    It's almost like guardzones exist. And scripts can be used to call guards because the characters have too much HP/resists to get one-shotted.

    Is she still doing the same nonsense? I forgot she existed.
     
  22. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Master
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    I used to carry a spare tangle claiming to get one ever round she was there. Haven't seen her in forever though.
     
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  23. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    Also, I would like to see how some one would afk/script the turtle spawn, or even the roof! Would take a heck of an intelligent script program to do this.
     
  24. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    Than you for posting. Love you guys one and all..Including @drcossack , and @Stinky Pete!
    I don't think anything is going to happen, since Devs never get here anymore. I . think we share one common thing: our love for this game, and each one of us worries about this game our different ways. Anyways I wanted to say thanks for taking the time, really appreciate!:)
     
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  25. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    I dont think anything should happen. When the pet revamp came out, Cossack was on more and two PvP guilds were playing nightly on LS. The PvPers on LS do not fight at yew gate. They fight at spawns.

    We were able to do as many spawns as we wanted to feed our pets, other LS players pets, NOOBs pets. I think we built more pets than any shard including Atlantic in the first year. We did spawns that were not in anti virtue dungeons.

    There are plenty of spawns for 2 or more tamers to go run and get scrolls. Soon you will find you rarely get a 120 scroll you need. May as well trade a Hawkwind for a 120 pet scroll. They happen about as often.

    So, I am on the side that the only thing we need done with pets is to make new tameables.
     
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  26. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    Yep.. I discovered the 120 PS part personally, lol. After all the work, lots of times I got either no 120 PS, or macing, archery most of the time. But I got useful for pets PS also. I think its an RNG thing, possibly slanted in the direction of "non-useful" PS. I have lots of the "good" ones, since I wait for the hoped for "TP cost/weigh reduction" for magery, Eval Int, and Necro/SS to happen. I got one of each super rare legacy pets (All 4 types of them, except the PP Bake, and the ultra super rares like ethy-skinned hiryu and the paragon-colored cusidhe). So I have not used any yet of the 120's. I would really really hate to 120 my dread, or bane PP WW, or PP mare now to find in xx time that they could have gotten more TP's after the devs see the light, finally..lol
     
  27. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    On the same point, and off topic, the pets with innate magery/Eval, and Necro/SS have these 4, take over lots of training points that are not recoverable when you change the specialty of the pet : The points are bybye, gone. If you lower the TP value of these 4, the "very tight in points" pets, like most banes for instance, would be more appropriately speced, the way that you would prefer. Nearly all mares and most draconians would benefit from this. Also magery/Eval, Necro/SS are no where near valuable for PVM pets esp., as other things are like Chiv, Disco, SW. What are they waiting for? We have been talking about this for nearly one year. Did anyone approach them about this? Supposedly @Khaelor or some one else? Any progress with this?
     
  28. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Saying that the game has been this way for X number of years doesn't mean anything at all...

    Slavery was around since the dawn of time does that make it right???? NO it doesn't ...

    Women didn't have the right to vote for years did that make that right? NO.

    People have been bullied in schools and everywhere for years but does that make it right? No it does not.

    So just because we've had to put up with being griefed everytime we want to get some PS's does NOT make it right... It just continues to perpetuate the reward for bad behavior... which IMO should have ended years ago.

    Why do we continue to reward Jerk off behavior???
     
  29. PageBoy

    PageBoy Journeyman

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    Aaaaah the good ol' days! :D






    You're seriously comparing slavery and sexism with a feature you don't like on pc game? Maybe is time to quit
     
  30. chester rockwell

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    Mala.....you're ridiculous. You must live a charmed life outside of uo.
     
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  31. PageBoy

    PageBoy Journeyman

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    We should all transfer a char to GL to raid he and his friends :D
     
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  32. chester rockwell

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    Prolly just have to xfer my crafter over.....
     
  33. superfrog

    superfrog Adventurer
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    I just don't get it, if you want to play a solo game go play super Mario or FF7. This is an MMO if you want the good stuff group with some people and chain them all day, if you get raided you can defend yourself. easy as pie
     
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  34. chester rockwell

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    People whine about community, then want every pet/template souped up to the point where they can solo everything or do everything on one template. Maybe if they weren't absolutely insufferable people, they could find people that want to hang around and do stuff with them. Personally, I couldn't imagine spending minute number one around such a sourpuss.
     
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  35. Romano Arax

    Romano Arax Visitor

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    Your fun isn't the only fun people want.

    I have no desire to participate in a one-sided slaughter. So I don't. I've been playing so long now that I don't even need to buy any more scrolls, I have trained the pets I need to train. But guess what else I ain't doing... I'm not recruiting any of my friends or trying to get people to come back... Because **** hasn't changed in 15+ years. So my need for nostalgic moments of a world lost in time... Isn't something that brings in new players. But if UO were to have real changes, as with the roof and some of the bosses... Then I would work FOR a return of old friends. But not so that people like you can maintain status quo
     
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  36. chester rockwell

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    Fel-only ruleset is nostalgic af.
     
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  37. railshot

    railshot Lore Master
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    Gee, it's a wonder PvMers would rather play a "single player MMO" than interact with your kind.
     
  38. PageBoy

    PageBoy Journeyman

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    In which shard you play? :D
     
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  39. drcossack

    drcossack Crazed Zealot
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    Gee, it's almost like Malag's personality and outlandish statements make for an easy target.

    So that's how you guys were able to get all those scrolls - I was wondering since you never did spawns to my knowledge (not that you advertised them either.) Well played. Sadly, apparently not everyone has the foresight to do what you did...
     
  40. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    Lol I was ordered to keep quiet. I even complained here that we pitiful trammies were not allowed to go to fel because of the mean PvP ers. When Don asked if we wanted to go fishing we knew which spawn it was and headed there.
    Was fun listening to all the chat rage back then.
     
  41. railshot

    railshot Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

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    Pacific. Come on over. Some here try to convince me that the PvPers that are monitoring the spawns are my imagination. You can come over and duke it out with them.
     
    PageBoy likes this.
  42. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    Yeah. Sounds about right.