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Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by Mervyn, Sep 17, 2013.
you must be blue to do this also?
Part of it is in Ilshenar and Malas so the whole quest can't be done in fel no.
Well Merv, if you want to be a bad boy and play only red characters you must live with the consequence of your actions. You chose to go red, not the dev team.
In case you've taken a brief break from UO..I will gladly fill you in!
Ultima Online has for the last 5+ or so years catered to the bluebies and most likely will continue to !!
Even I've worked a sampire to join the grind..err I mean "fun"!
As a proud trammie, I think it is past time to allow reds to roam freely around trammel ruleset areas.
It is not like they can actually hurt anyone there, anyway.
They already do...
But that is through some sort of exploit.
I would love to give them the ability to do that legally.
The way I see, there is absolutely no point in cutting their access to the rest of the content anymore just because they are red.
Just make all of UO (Fel and Tram Ruleset) consensual PvP where Blues have a switch ON/OFF Consensual PvP (all facets) and Reds do not. Problem solved.
Being limited to Felucca is the penalty for a character's aggressive acts over time. Removal of stat loss with AoS was a sufficient gesture; red characters need no more.
All they have to do is jump on one of their 5 other chars which may not be red. Everyone knows the consequences of going red. It's a choice made by the player.
This. It wouldn't be the first time Reds have been able to go to Trammel either. It used to be possible via ship key, but that was removed many years ago.
If I wanted to play in a Tram ruleset, I'd hop on my tamer and do so. If I wanted to play in Fel, I could go on my tamer or my red. Nobody is stopping me (or anyone else) from doing this either.
Going red isn't even a consequence anyway, fwiw, simply because of other characters. You can PvP just as easily on a blue.
There's no real reason to make Fel consensual in any way either. You go there, you accept the risks. If you don't want to be attacked by another player while there, there's always a town or one of the guardzones by the moongates.
I have no need or want to go to
Trammel on my red unless I can kill blues. Period! I have blue character to do the tram stuff..I think the main gripe is for the same "content" to be in fel..not the same "intent"
Non-consensual PvP in Fel, consensual PvP in Trammel through a on/off switch for blues (off by default) that would show orange or some other colour, so people know that they are okay with PvP, and reds being able to roam at Trammel areas.
I would like to see that, aye.
All i'm saying is, there were 20 guildmembers in our vent, 19 on red, one on a blue, we decided to celebrate 16 years of uo by doing this new quest, all of us ran around Trinsic for 5 mins looking for the salvage guy then got annoyed after an ICQ from Petra disappointed us.
Yeah, that, um, sucks. No reason why the portions of the quest that take place in Trammel/Felucca can't be accessed in either. Having it in Fel would also make it more fun for some of us.
I have 80 or so Pardons for sale on Sonoma... Can make you a deal.
Some may remember this from when Trammel first opened. An old friend of mine foolishly used his Counselor powers to bring a red friend to Trammel, and the latter started PKing. Why the game didn't prevent a red from attacking blues in Trammel, when blues couldn't attack blues, I don't know. I wasn't there personally, thank goodness, otherwise I might have gotten punished by association. It definitely happened because, um, they sort of got paged on quickly, and, um, perma-banned before they knew what was happening.
What was the original reasons for reds not to come to Trammel? RP?
Multiply that about 20-30 times and we will talk
I rather like your answer, since it shows how ancient the history is. Trammel came about so non-PvPers could have a place to go, because reds could not restrain themselves. They didn't just attack players in dungeons, but miners and lumberjacks outside town, and players recalling to their houses, in conjunction with some of the worst cheats and exploits the game ever saw. Therefore Trammel was the safe haven where reds couldn't just mow down weaker characters and/or smaller groups.
How about this: reds can come to any facet, but they can be attacked freely.
Works for me.
Works where I play...
One more thing: no heals from anybody anywhere, even guildmates or fellow reds outside town. That would make it interesting.
Sorry if Reds are allowed in the Tram ruleset then all of UO should go consensual PvP. They knew what they were doing and look at all the LURES Fel has gotten and now they want in Tram, sorry no way.
What lures? Nobody wants stat/power scrolls from the spawns anymore, they can just be purchased - even when the scrolls were in demand, they were secondary rewards - the main point of the spawns was being raided, defending, and getting money via insurance. I know nothing about modern factions, so no comment there. Fel is quite dead on most shards, at any rate.
When I first started playing, do you know what the game's primary lure was? Doom. I didn't know it at the time, but the players down there were all PvPers.
Honestly, I don't see how it could hurt, even if it's pointless since we all have blues anyway. At the very least, make aspects of some quests (like this one) available in both Trammel and Felucca. The Obsidian Wyvern would certainly be harder in Fel...well, not the monster itself, I suppose, but I digress. Either way, Fire Elementals are on B3 of Fel Destard (I mean, sure, they're weak, but it's added spawn when you're facing an Ancient Wyrm class enemy), plus you'd have to deal with the random Dragons and Greater Dragons on the first floor (if you go in from the front, anyway); you COULD take a Serpent's Hold > Fire Dungeon > Despise > 3rd floor Destard route, but that might run you smack dab into an Ancient Wyrm.
Well when I started playing UO there was no Tram and guess what DOOM is in Tram and PvMers do DOOM not PvPers. Maybe you need to read all the stuff the DEVs have done to Fel trying to LURE players back there, you may want to start with PUB 16.
If you are stupid enough to have all 7 characters red then its your own fault.
The problem here is people still think being red = evil nast person and being blue = nicest, most innocent person in the world. I will use my personal expierence from last week to illustrate it. Last week I "accidently" went red on my PvM mystic. I thought I had 0 counts, but I guess I had 4. So when I realize that I went red I start spamming in GC "Buying forged pardon accidently went red." Of course someone chimmed in "well if you would stop killing innocent people you wouldn't "accident my" go red." So me being me I ask what makes you innocent, is just being blue what makes you innocent?" Of course her response was "Yes of course." So then I asked was I innocent when I killed 4 blues while I was blue, and guess what? I was!!!!!! It is okay to kill blues as long as you stay under 5 long term counts. So then I asked even though I have killed lots of blues will I be innocent once I am back down to 4 long term counts? Once again I will be!!!!!!
So I guess the lesson I learned is it it okay to kill who ever/ when ever as long as you don't go over 4 long term counts. No matter what. So next time I go to a spawn on my blue and I find 2 blues working it I better not get attacked by one while I am trying to kill his friend, because I will make sure I am blue so I can be considered innocent.
Thats all good and fine but the OP has 7 red chars and his game play style is to kill non pvp players trying to get a scroll or two. He has not went red by accident, he insists that EVERYONE in his guild plays a red character. He has chosen his path, its not the fault of the devs or other players that he chooses not to play in an area of the game reds are not allowed. He knows the rules of the game, but insists in winging when ever he gets the chance about it.
The bigger issue are people who transfered 1 char to a different shard and that char is red. Personally I have one char in LS and it is red. I have 1 char on Atl and that is red.
I don't know why folk think reds are bad guys. I know players who are real nice and a few who are real jerks... not the colour of a char tells you how the person behind it is. and yes its the players decision if he wants to be red or not... its the playstile they chose and their right to do so, as everyone else has the right to chose the char and playstile he wants to play. Thats what UO is, the freedom to chose what you want to be! that doesn't mean that reds have to be punished with not being able to enjoy a birthday quest! and yes they might have a blue char they are able to do that quest, but everyone has a favorite char he likes to do things with.... i think it would be fair to participate no matter if you are red or blue.
I love Siege, no problems like that. *winks*
Don't see a problem with allowing red characters to roam outside of fel. The ruleset still applies.. whats the problem. What if i had one account and wanted to have a luna vendor house, but have red chars?
This won't happen, but i don't see why it couldn't.
My first desire is that red chars stay in Fel only as the penalty, but if they really insist (and I really doubt it will happen), then my proposal is to let players bring them such that they'll hopefully get ganked. It's a fitting quid pro quo considering the usual manner in which chars get murder counts.
Put the content into Fel, then players don't need to be blue to get it and nobody has to shift facets. It means those of us who like the ruleset in Fel and the extra risk can do these things without the security of Tram. It gives us the option to avoid large groups all ganking the crap out of a few creatures and spread out a bit. It just gives a nice bit of choice. I don't PvP, I'm not red, but I do live and enjoy playing in Fel. I've had a lot of fun doing events and quests in Fel, sneaking past packs of PvPers in dungeons with quest loot is far more fun than trying to get 1 hit on a monster when 50 others are hitting it I wish it didn't feel like Fel was the forgotten facet at times heh.
As for giving reds the option of visiting Tram facets, really, no. You can stay blue or ensure one character remains blue on your account. There are pardons and soulstones nowadays too. You can spread counts between a while account worth of characters. It isn't difficult to stay blue or go back to being blue. So you don't need any changes made, just use the options available to you.
siege my friend, seige
I've never "accidently" gone red on any character, ever. There is always a choice. There's no excuse "I hadn't planned on it," because then what were you doing attacking blues?
It is actually not "okay" to get four murder counts, more like "tolerated" with the implicit warning of not doing it too often. Once UO went to the reputation system, four counts were permitted for situations like defending a friend, who went gray after looting a non-guilded friend, against noto PKs. Under the old notoriety system, attacking blues, even friends by accident, would turn you gray as a warning.
It's a nice thought, but there's too much potential for ganking, if not a guarantee. Every EM event in Fel that I've attended was a complete disaster, without exception, because most people can't PvP well enough to survive the inevitable PK zergs. It's no fun for non-Fel types to spend a while killing monsters, only to get slaughtered.
I don't know what you mean by "sneaking past." If there's a choke point, like at any harrower, reds will lay down fields to prevent that.
I wouldnt say the fel events were a disaster. I enjoyed them. It just happened that about 10 reds could kill 150 blues. Id like to see more fel content and more fel events, yes the Current "kill button" technique of pvm events would have to be adjusted by the players themselves, but this wouldnt be a bad thing at all and stay more true to the original intent of UO.
Reds should not goto trammel it is uo lore and thats fine by me however a blue faction char should be able to attack an opposing faction in trammel.
But that's not what Merv was talking about he was talking about Devs only allowing a certain group of players to enjoy / take part in their birthday celebrations.
This whole restriction is such a relic from happier more lively times where, with some stretching of imagination, PKing could actually be viewed as an actual problem. At least when waging Forum wars. Now there is no real practical reason not to allow it. Tho I recon it is such an integral part of the UO's culture that removing the restriction, despite it being completely useless, would mostly cause the reds to whine.
I'm ok with reds in tram..not like they will be bank sitting plus I could kill them in Luna after a purchase from a vendor..it might actually bring some shop out of Luna some popularity..out if guard zone that is..! Can't heal within guards!
But also a red cannot flag AT ALL! Only the blue can initiate combat, then all is fair game with that regards..
I chose to go red? I'd happily be blue if everyone else was red.
When I did turn red about 10 years ago. I don't remember signing a contract to say that despite paying my subscription and buying the booster expansions I wave my rights to do any new content for the next 10 years.
Yeah i COULD create a blue for trammie stuff but then all my friends have to do the same. I don't get why only blues get to do the new despise and doom, and dreadhorn, and medusa, and now this new arc.
How many quests are there that a red can do and not a blue? I'll answer it for you.
I hate to break it to people who like to think of reds as the bad guys, but reds are role players too. UO is colour racist at the moment.
You didn't have to sign a contract. A contract implies mutual agreement, and there was none, because it was whatever rules the Devs set. And if you went red 10 years ago, Ilshenar was two years old, which should have given you a clue that reds would be restricted to Felucca. All the subscriptions in the world can't get around the hard rule they've set.
I've encountered too many reds and thieves over the years who used "roleplay" as an excuse.
An excuse for what?
Are you trying to suggest that people who are red don't deserve the new content somehow? It's a well known fact that all griefers are blue, that is not to say that all blues are griefers.
Spare us your absurd attempt at a Venn diagram. Griefers come in all colors.
Now since you put it that way, yes. Use a blue, or, if you want to get out of Fel, then stay under 5 counts. It's only been that way for 13 years.
How can a red grief? a red is a red, if you don't like them, kill them. It's blues who grief and hide behind trammel rulesets or guardzones.
My point being, that there was a time when fel was an exact duplicate of trammel, all the dungeons in fel were duplicated to trammel, it was fel first.
Now trammel has expanded, and fel has not. They are supposed to be mirror images of each other.
No one is arguing some blues don't grief, but you're arguing the ridiculous position that reds don't. When a red PKs someone "just because," that isn't griefing? Or do you hide behind the old excuse that it's "roleplay"? Some MDK (a guild before your time who got banned) probably tried the excuse that they were just RPing sadistic predators.
Just because Trammel was initially created as a mirror image, which was for simplicity's sake, doesn't mean it always will be. Just because you think they're supposed to be mirror images doesn't mean it's true. What about faction bases? By your absurd logic, they should have been replicated in Trammel.
IM not sure to understand right now... are there poeple that really argue that reds should not have access to the new content ? Wow, imo, reds should have access to trammel ,ilsh, tok, malas and ter mur but cant attack others players and cant be attacked, simple like that.
This. Whatever the reasons are for us going Red on one (or more characters), we did it. In my case, I did it for an "easier" time during spawns - you don't have to worry about flagging or not flagging on people when you're throwing down fields on a Red. The only time I'd go on my blue was for Oaks. Did I need to? Of course not...but it is a hell of a lot easier dealing with an Oaks spawn when EVERYTHING isn't after you and thus capable of killing you in 1.5 seconds. Also, being able to get res'd by Ethereal Warriors during level 4 is a VERY nice bonus.
I no longer use that character, as I Soulstoned my mage skills over to my Tamer after deactivating in 2007 (knowing that UO would be, if I ever returned in the future, a lot less active), but even then, I never actually went out of my way to attack people if I was roaming around Fel...but people did that to me. I didn't mind, since it was my choice & I had to live with it.
Still, other than "legacy" reasons, there's no real point to not allowing us to go where we want, if content we'd want to participate in is restricted to certain areas. You can even keep Trammel/Ilshenar/Tokuno/Ter Mur as consensual PvP zones.
No. It really isn't. You go to Fel, you accept that there's a chance you get killed. Personally, I'd leave you alone whether I was on my Red or not, unless you attacked me. Not everyone is like that, of course, but it's essentially the same thing as "OMG, HE'S RED. KILL HIM", which I've dealt with way too often. Two examples of this stick out to me:
1) I frequently went to Fel Moonglow to bank. I was attacked by MDF ('Glow Defense Force) guys just because I was red. Did I mind? Slightly. Is it so hard to just let a guy do his banking in peace?
2) During one of my many trips to the Yew Moongate, I was fighting one of my friends 1v1. Towards the end of our fight, when I was about to win, a guy (on a blue) jumps in and kills me. This, to me, is FAR more annoying than not letting a Red do his banking.
I know, it's the risks of going Red, yadda yadda, but it's also common courtesy to stay out of a 1v1 fight.