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New Vendor and current 175M cap

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Alexey Kurkdjian, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. Alexey Kurkdjian

    Alexey Kurkdjian Journeyman

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    Please go vote,
    It is time to remove the 175m vendor cap.
    So many people have armor, jewels, rares that sell foe way over 175m, go vote to remove cap.

    New Vendor Cap
     
  2. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    No it isn't ..... selling stuff for insane amounts of gold over 175M should be more rare...

    We want more players to play UO but we don't want to make them able to actually do anything in game for 10 years plus? Seems insane to me... New and returning players look at those prices and get seriously discouraged. You are all seriously greedy and it is killing UO.
     
    Arrgh, Windarian, Loriel and 8 others like this.
  3. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Poobah
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    I seriously miss the days when a 1mil check would buy almost anything in game....... short of decent housing locations :(
     
  4. Alexey Kurkdjian

    Alexey Kurkdjian Journeyman

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    @MalagAste you are always so negative about everything.
    New players can use this new vendors or the old ones as well, old ones with 175m cap and new ones with no caps.
    There is a lot of things that sell for well over 175m. Lets face the true for once, there is no new players at all, what we have are Return players and guess what, any new or return players would never be able to afford any of the new armor or shine rares, bc the economy or inflation went down the tube years and years ago. That is the true and YOU know that, thw new vendor with no cap will NOT interfere with anythingbfor the new or return player anyway, but will help the rare collectors or anyone else that desire to sell a high end without have tonuse the broken system of auction safes or be forced to do a stratics auction to sell a high end item.
     
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  5. North_LS

    North_LS Journeyman

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    geez, its not like anything anyone really NEEDS is being sold for those kind of prices. A player can fully outfit a new toon for a tiny fraction of that with decent gear.

    let collectors and such buy and sell their uber valuables on vendors, it doesnt hurt anyone.
     
    Nyses and Theo_GL like this.
  6. Alexey Kurkdjian

    Alexey Kurkdjian Journeyman

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    @North_LS agree with you 10000%
    Will not make any difference at all, but some people on this board just like to complain about just everything.
     
  7. Grace of Minoc

    Grace of Minoc Seasoned Veteran
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    The vendor limit is at 175m. Sound like you are the one complaining.
     
  8. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    And what would new/returning players sell???? They aren't going to have much of anything anyone doesn't already have in abundance or want... Seriously unless they have some uber rare hidden somewhere most of the outdated crap they have is junk. Not worth vending and again you wonder why people don't want to play UO this right here is a HUGE part of it.

    And new and returning players start up all the time... AND QUICKLY get frustrated and leave again mad.... the kind of angry that doesn't bring them back again.
     
  9. Alexey Kurkdjian

    Alexey Kurkdjian Journeyman

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    You still dont answer on how the cap limit will affect the ability of a new or return player sell anything?? What does the cap have to do with that?? Anyone will be able to sell things from 1gp to 10p.
     
    Theo_GL likes this.
  10. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    They don't have the stuff to sell don't be stupid... no it will affect how they view the game in terms of what they can buy... and when they look at so much crap on auction safes and the like now priced ridiculously they tell themselves that they will NEVER have that kind of money in-game especially when the most they can get off a mob is 1 or 2k... and THAT is what drives potential players to quit...

    We have ZERO need to have things priced more than 175M... ZERO the only reason for that stupidity is GREED plain and simple.
     
    Val-Tur likes this.
  11. Alexey Kurkdjian

    Alexey Kurkdjian Journeyman

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    Sell me a two store statue for 175m
    Sell me a scaffold set for 175m
    Sell me a Demon Cameo for 175m
    I can go on and on with a Huge list of things that sell for way over 175M.
     
  12. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    And you think who has that???

    I don't have any of those things... 99.9% of the players who've ever played do NOT have those things. You live in a dream world if you think a new or returning player is going to get any of those things in 10 years or more of playing.
     
  13. Alexey Kurkdjian

    Alexey Kurkdjian Journeyman

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    This new vendor have NOTHING to do with return or new players, ZERO, people have requested the new vendor to charge a commission AFTER the item is sold, people from dead shards requested this new vendor, because they were tired, like all of us of been charged Daily for things that take forever to sell, this new vendors will not affect return players or people from slow shards at all, so again , you have no valid point in been upset, as you are always, about everyone and everything.
     
    Coco_Zamis_DF likes this.
  14. Alexey Kurkdjian

    Alexey Kurkdjian Journeyman

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    Can you show us please where the new vendors were created for the main purpose of helping new or return players????
    Do you understand that the new vendors were created for the solo purpose of charging a commission sales fee instead of a daily fee, to help slow shards?? Or people that couldnt afford all the daily fees???? . And the 175m cap will not affect anyone??? Who cares if 10,20,100 people have items that would sell fpr 250m+?
     
  15. Grace of Minoc

    Grace of Minoc Seasoned Veteran
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    Shouldn't extremely rare items be difficult to sell and trade? What with all the security and secrecy
    involved to transport said item that would be needed.

    To trade high value items like that, you would need a security team in place and not announce ahead
    of time that it will be listed at the local inn.

    The high rollers have ways they can meet and trade items/gold/etc.

    Nothing will change for them, and a nice boost will happen for the common player with these new vendors.
     
    MalagAste likes this.
  16. Lore

    Lore Lore Keeper

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    Devil's advocate, although I agree with Malag, if the limit was removed the gold sink through vendor fees would be more effective.
     
  17. Lord Arm

    Lord Arm Lore Master

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    there are auction safes or can spam at luna bank. nothing needs to change because there are many other more important things the devs need to work on. im not talking about the 50 new fish either lol

    these new venders should only be one per house or it could be exploited which I wont go into
     
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  18. Great DC

    Great DC Lore Keeper
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    Id be fine with a raise to 300m - 500m. No need to get crazy with it. Also you have to remember that the max gold a vendor can hold is 2P anyway. Id rather see safes go away and stuff be put on vendors.
     
  19. Archnight

    Archnight Legendary Crusader
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    250m would be the perfect amount for vendors, that extra 75m would make a huge difference as many items/rares fall in that range and still make auction safes viable.
     
    dingomate likes this.
  20. Dizzy

    Dizzy Lore Master
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    I don't like arbitrary limits.

    I can't think of a single reason why a limit should be placed on how expensive an item is when placed on a vendor, baring technical issues. Probably 32,000 platinum ought to be the limit.
     
    Boba, Theo_GL and celticus like this.
  21. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Poobah
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    I don't like arbitrary limits either.

    I see MalagAste's point but I long ago gave up on any serious new player experience. There's many reasons why new players don't stick around the economy is just one reason. The two clients, the cheating, the outdated 90s graphics and isometric play style. Poor GM support, etc. etc. All contribute.

    If there must be a limit then at least make it more realistic to today's economy and make it a worthy gold sink. One Platinum limit would suck some real gold out of the game. I'm not and never have been a fan of gold sinks either but if we must have them, this is a real one.
     
  22. Dizzy

    Dizzy Lore Master
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    MalagAste's point is against the cost of items. Lots of things are out of my price range as a casual player. The only reason I have any gold is that I sold a garden shed. I get it.

    But that's not a valid reason to set a limit on what can be placed on a vendor.
     
  23. dingomate

    dingomate Journeyman

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    You can't even put a demon cameo on VS for fair value. That's a problem....
     
  24. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Poobah
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    After thinking on it over night. I'm wondering, are players so damn rich and loose with their gold that they would pay 52.5M tax on a transaction?

    Honestly, I think not.

    No seller is going to eat 52.5 Million gold in commission to sell something on a vendor for 1 Platinum. It's just ridiculous to think it. No buyer is gonna want to pay an additional 52.5 Million over 1 Platinum to cover the commission either.

    We're deluding ourselves it we think players are going to use a vendor with a 5.25% commission to sell ultra high-end items.

    I don't care if you have 50 Platinum. For example a 2 Plat item would incur a 105 Million gold commission. NOBODY is gonna pay that. I sure as hell wouldn't!
     
    #24 Ezekiel Zane, Aug 16, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
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  25. dingomate

    dingomate Journeyman

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    You must suck at this game if you think it takes 10 years to get any of those items, sadly.
     
  26. dingomate

    dingomate Journeyman

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    Any smart merchant will adjust his pricing based on the commission, accordingly.
     
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  27. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Poobah
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    Up to a point, yes. Once you get into the Platinum price ranges though we're talking about a **** ton of gold as a commission. Players are not going to buy/sell that via a vendor. They'll use the trade forums, General chat and the other methods already used.
     
  28. dingomate

    dingomate Journeyman

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    I totally agree with your view. 5.25% on a plat is hefty. Also by having items listed for >175m on VS it does offer value to buyers, not only sellers.
     
  29. Gunsmoke

    Gunsmoke Adventurer
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    everyone keeps talking about cap 175mil... maybe the devs are telling us that nothing in this game should be worth more than 175mil, even though alot if ppl have multi plats in the bank. im sure the devs dont care that ppl have plats and what you want to sell/buy is totally on the person. i think they are going off what it should be realisticly.

    Also im thinking what is going to happen to all the vendors currently placed in houses that hold Thousands of BODs? is the book on the vendor really 1 stone = 1 item for 500 bods per book?
     
  30. Innoxicated

    Innoxicated Journeyman

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    I think the weight limit only applies to the new vendors, so people cant use it for extra storage.

    I also think 250m is a reasonable limit, I dont know how long ago the 175m limit was imposed off hand, but the inflation is ever rising.

    Even if no one would want to put plat+ items on a vendor and pay exceedingly high fees, I think that would be an excellent gold sink. That's what we really need to help fix the game economy, imo. Paying for game time with gold, paying for additional housing storage, stable slots, char slots, maybe a second boat. While each of these would cost BS money from subscription fees or a greater server load, the economy is too far gone to be an easy fix.

    The prices of current items is very discouraging to new/returning players, I agree. The ones who can look past the dated graphics and low population, who get into the game enough to pay a subscription and get the lay of the land are the ones most affected by this.

    The real new player experience in UO is honestly entirely driven by the community, and while this obviously brings players together, I think it would boost morale (and keep more subscriptions) if they felt like they were achieving something worthwhile with their own efforts. Looking at well-equipped veteran players knowing they are at least competitive, instead of feeling like that is something completely out of reach for them.

    Imbuing allows this to an extent, and it's a skill easily trained thankfully. Powerscrolls being more easily available from all the t-hunters will help this, too. So maybe the devs are on the right track.
     
  31. Great DC

    Great DC Lore Keeper
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    If the cap isn't raised up the current 175 means that the max is now 165m cause the seller will eat 9.2M on the sale. Also this notion that new/returning players cant compete with those prices is nonsense. If a new player joins today and finds a guild within a week within a months time theyd probably have at least a half a plat. Between power scrolls and roof drops its easy to make gold in this game. All they would need is a small amount of help from a couple guildies.
     
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  32. railshot

    railshot Lore Master
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    So, by your logic, setting a limit of 175M will prevent people from selling items for more than that? Do you see that happening now, with the existing limits?
    The reason you see items going for plat and more is not greed. They are priced at their market price dictated by supply and demand. Trying to fight "greed" is as silly as it is ineffectual. All these limits do is drive high value sales to the chat (that sure makes a good impression on new players) and forums. It also encourages RMT, because once you take the transaction out of the game, switching to real money is a very small step.
     
  33. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    People sell stuff ridiculously enough do not need to encourage it more. Having ridiculous prices on vendors only serves to feed the greed... which IMO is bad enough already... Don't need to help it any at all.

    Changing the price won't improve anything at all ..... as others have pointed out the cost of the 5% would be so much that people would be discouraged from it anyway... it's high enough as is... nothing will chance people selling stuff for silly prices as long as other people are willing to pay stupid prices... But the new and returning players don't need it shoved in their face that everything is stupidly priced.

    As for the RMT crap that's been going once since the early days... the only thing that slowed that some was Ebays removal of electronic sales from it's site... little else will solve that issue... Just as I keep saying with the Avatar guy who sells gold at insanely stupid high prices... he wouldn't be spamming that crap all day every day if people weren't actually buying crap from him. If no one was actually buying from him he'd move on to more lucrative pastures, but obviously he's making money at it or he'd have quit long ago.
     
  34. railshot

    railshot Lore Master
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    So the way I understand you is that the only positive thing it will accomplish is not "shove" the high prices in the faces of the new players? You don't think that having these high prices spammed in the gen chat would shove these prices in the faces of the players a lot more? Because that's how you accomplish exactly that - by eliminating a legitimate channel for these sales.
    New players will find out either way how much high end pieces are worth when they start asking their friends for advice. But now, instead of just dealing with the problem of getting enough gold, they also have to waste time scouring the forums and watching chat until the right seller comes along. Imagine how much exposure to the prices they will get doing that. And they will ultimately pay even more, because having no easily accessible sales venue will decrease competition and increase prices.
    In other words, artificially limiting prices accomplishes nothing positive, and brings a lot of negatives with it.
    And the anti-greed crusade is really hard to understand in a grown adult. These prices are not driven by greed. They are driven by supply and demand. Nobody will sell their car for $5k when there are 10 people lining up willing to pay $20k for it. You want lower prices? Get devs to increase drop rates.
     
  35. Blackie

    Blackie Seasoned Veteran

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    DEFINITELY DITCH THE 175M VENDOR CAP.....

    ....bring it down to 100m. Sorry elites, your EM items are not worth 300m+, lol.
     
    petemage likes this.
  36. Planters

    Planters Slightly Crazed

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    So I hear what everyone is saying but there is a fix to this. Charge the fee before it sells. So it’s not a holding base till someone comes up and tells the seller hey instead of 200 mil I will give you 150mil. And he takes off vendor with no fees and sells it. They will be great for people to show off still and still have it in VS. they will still burn the 5% weather it sells or just sits there. I think of it as a vendor that’s like a chest in my house. They want it to take storage well so does a chest. 125 items that I would never sell in a chest or 125 that might sell. Now if you look at my vendors the most expensive thing I think I have ever sold on a vendor was an ethy horse so I am not a great person for the increase cap but I think if they really want the increase crap raised then taking the fee when it’s placed on vendor would be the best way to fix it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  37. SwordofExcalibur

    SwordofExcalibur One of the last Rangers of Skara Brae
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    I vote to keep one of the last economic bastions of price-cap regulation en force.

    Death to price gouging and greedy capitalism.
     
  38. loop

    loop Visitor

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    There's a lot of references in this thread to new/returning players, so I thought I'd chime in. I am a player who has returned from the days of Renaissance and who re-subscribed a few months ago. I can only speak for myself, but I don't think items that hit the 175 million+ threshold are a factor in the new/returning player experience. I think that the cost of more fundamental items like power scrolls, ethereal mounts, soul stones, etc. play a bigger role. My impression is that most current players consider these items relatively inexpensive, but a player who is inexperienced will perceive them differently.

    Someone mentioned that the community plays the biggest role in the new player experience, and I found that to be true. I probably would not still be playing if someone hadn't given me 1 million gold and an LRC suit when I first started.
     
  39. kaio

    kaio Lore Master
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    I agree with MalagAste, raising the cap to 175mill or higher is a bad idea, instead it should be lowered to 1mill, to encourage social interaction between players.
    This is a MMO after all, not vendors online.
     
    kze likes this.
  40. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    I recall last year we raised concerns and lamented that the vendor fees are making the low population shards even lower pop.
    We discussed that the items can stay on the vendors MONTHS and even years(?) only accruing FEES that amount to a lot and drain the sellers bank accounts.
    We discussed different possible ways to try to bring vendors in the system, with special concern for low pop shards, and medium-low population ones, and try to get away from depending purely on ATL vendors.
    So the DEvs surprise surprise they listened and they state the DID something about it in a next update.
    So NOW then..Did we change our mind here or what?
    Why does it bother anyone if Mr/Mrs welltodo, want to place a vendor with an item they want to sell for 2 billion on it? Or 1k gold value item?
    Also we decided on a consignment fee, possibly 5% that would be charged the seller AT sale point, not before. Then if seller wants to remove the item from vendor NO FEE NO CHARGE to the seller.
    What are we doing here with this? Just wondering.
     
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  41. railshot

    railshot Lore Master
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    I think the main reason is that all the anti-greed crusaders do not understand how economics work. They seem to be under the impression that obstructing free trade lowers the prices, while it does exactly the opposite. They fail to understand that nobody will price their items lower than the market price simply because there is an artificial limit on the NPC vendor. They will just sell them on the black market-- in this case forums and chat. And once these items are on the forums, the competition is largely gone because unlike on the vendor search, the buyers cannot see a list of prices for the same item side by side. Less competition = higher prices. But the envy and resentment is so strong that it's easier to just yell for price limits. This would be funny if it was not so sad.
    For a real world example of this mysterious phenomenon, I refer you to look at well documented effects of price controls in Venezuela, North Korea, and USSR. Those guys all were also very big on fighting greed.
     
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  42. TheGrimReefer

    TheGrimReefer Certifiable
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    Whatever happened to being able to sell the clothing the vendor wears. Did they take that out? Can you do this with new vendors?
     
  43. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Grand Poobah
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    If the powers that be had any business sense, they would put Avatar and others out of business. How?? Competition.
    Put what they are selling in the store, even gold, at a lower cost than they are selling. Kill their business...and make a few coins for themselves. Seriously, what would it cost BS to sell this stuff in the store? lol...they just make it up, not like they are having to buy and stock stuff...

    The fact that they dont close em down is what makes a lot of people believe they are involved in one way or another
     
  44. Lore

    Lore Lore Keeper

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    The Avatar spam could very well be spamming and not getting sales. There's no reason not to. Even one sale a month is worth it. He doesn't have to be raking it in. It's free money when there are happy little incidents.
    I believe they are involved because they continue to make loot drops so low and confusing. Instead of making content that's fun to do they just make loot pinatas with low drop rates. Also big power scrolls are still just fel only and have been abused for a long time.
     
  45. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Grand Poobah
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    *ding ding* We have a winner...
     
  46. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    I doubt very much that the Devs are the RMT, or benefit one way or another from the RMT "Avatar" or other. The Devs in all likelihood get paid XX,000/year each (I dont know 28-35-98 etc..). What do you think RMT Avatar would bring them on top of this? Or do you think Mr. Avatar makes more than a few hundred bucks/week?
    I think that the DEv's would not want to jeopardize their jobs and accrue in-company suit charges against them by involving themselves with RMT. They would really have to be insane. I don't think they are, and don't think they would jeopardize XX,000$/year almost sure thing salary, for a few hundred bucks.
    Also how hard is it to catch Mr. Avatar? Right you catch him on his EJ account now, then he pops in with another 5-6 EJ accounts, deletes them and all over again. Well you would say, why don't they trap and record his/her IP address? Because Mr Avatar likely uses all sorts of proxies, so what they may catch is a ip address from a computer anywhere in the world.
    I suspect it is NOT easy at all to catch the offender(s) effectively, if not impossible.
    Also : I strongly doubt that the Avatar is raking in sackfulls of US$$, frankly.
    Plus: The buyers of RMT goods and gold, never blow the whistle, since they are ALSO guilty and will be in jeopardy.
    =Good loot has always been a challenge, thats the nature of UO, for decades.
    =The PS always have been in Fel, forever and ever. And that is ok, thats part of the game.
    =This game was meant to be not easy and was meant to keep you working on stuff. There is an honor system, that is not present in other games.
    Anyways my 10 cents..
     
  47. Lore

    Lore Lore Keeper

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    I've done RMT. There was a mod here that argued it was good for the game too. *Waits for lightning to strike him down....* The mod argued that if they don't have time to play they like that they can buy the items and it's their money so it doesn't matter if they want to spend it.

    Whenever I return I usually drop a few hundred on soulstones, power scrolls, and stat scrolls. One time I bought a full set of SoTs to get a fully built 120 Tamer in one go.

    But it doesn't have to be... because it's abused.


    No it really wasn't. You could craft a Val suit and be fine. There was one or two slots with random loot and that was the weapon for the most part. It was much more fun IMO.

    I don't know where you got this impression. The game still isn't hard. The difficulty is either you have the gear to do something or you don't. That's it.
     
    Uriah Heep likes this.
  48. Innoxicated

    Innoxicated Journeyman

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    ^ right, and to get the gear you need the gear you are after in the first place. Not being a nay-sayer necessarily, but you either have the gear to do high-end content, or you dont. You either ride along with a group who does all the work for you and get a piece or two, or someone gives it to you to begin with.

    I'm not saying anyone who plays UO wants to be led by the hand and told where to go, if that were the case they'd have more fun with the much-maligned world of warcraft. But warcraft does have tiers of gear, where players can be competitive without being fully decked in epic legendaries.

    UO's tiers are comprised of high-end arties and generated loot, useable arties and generated loot, and low-end (unravelables) that I've heard some refer to as "completely unusable." These are often fine for newbs and low-end content, but no new/returning player is going to become a self-made platinumair hunting earthies in shame, right?

    Blackthornes dungeon was a good idea, except its such a pita that the arties you get aren't any cheaper than the originals, and just become a vanity option for veterans. How about a range of artifact drops that, similarly to VvV arties, are copies of the original but slightly *less* powerful, but much easier to get? This has been attempted with cursed and ephemeral, but never successfully so far.

    I agree the price limit is really asinine, and the economic theory concerns posted above are definitely worth considering if you disagree. Obviously this post has very little to do with vendor price limits, but since the issue of new player experience has been raised, I think it's something that should be looked at and improved. There are some new players who have a run of luck with a good guild, but I bet for every one of those, ten come back and quit. One thing we do not need is people returning to check out the new taming system and the new content, then taking their money to a different game for a more rewarding experience. I think this also has a lot to do with those that want to get caught up and use RMT to do so.
     
    #48 Innoxicated, Aug 22, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  49. celticus

    celticus Babbling Loonie

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    I think this thread is taking a different direction than intended. The OP question was about the 175 M max on the new or old vendors coming up next update.
    Now we are bringing up RMT etc.
    About RMT, never done it and will never do it. THAT is what makes MH UO difficult, hard, a challenge etc. I like a difficult game, and I keep it that way by NOT RMTing. The only RL cash I pay is to the UO game sub and to get things like more stable slots.
    Now after all these years the Devs have given in and you can also buy soulstones from the UO game itself by the way, and some other less semi-useful things.
    But what is the point playing the game and do "high end content" if you just buy all that you need to do so? So what is the game? Only fun part is the "high end content"?
    Not in my opinion. The game is what you make it, how you enjoy it. High end content stuff is a gradual progressive process if done the intended, "correct" way.
    I don't anymore mind the "danger" of PK-Fel spawns, or the thieves etc. Part of the game.
    I appreciate UO players with styles like @Stinky Pete who just plays his role in the game as he states enjoys stealing, and also players like @Keith of Sonoma who plays his own way, and they are never doing any RMT, but they enjoying different challenges in the game. One is a pauper, barely with any gear, and the other one is a well to do player due to his own dilligence, and very much anti-cheating and anti-RMT. I can go on and on @Donavon, @Pawain , @MalagAste , @Khaelor , @LordGod(God), @PlayerSkillFTW , many others whose fun in the game is to develop testing and educate others and critique the game with painstaking effort. These guys in my opinion are stars of honor in their own way.

    ANYWAYS: To bring the thread back in track.
    I would like for someone to detail list the mechanics of damage to the game, and bloated economy from vendors posting goods at 1-2 Platinum cost or more, if the seller/buyer are willing to accept a massive 5.7% charge for the deal?
    Without theories, and without inaccurate information.
    What are the advantages or disadvantages for a very high priced item being sold on VS, where exposure is extremely high to lots of people to see?
    (Please don't say because it will scare the new players-that does not hold too well).
    Please bring this thread back on track and continue discussing the OP post.
     
  50. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    The main topic of this thread has run its course.

    The billionaire players in UO didn't get to be billionaires by being careless with their gold. Raising the cap is not going to change that.

    Even a 500 million gold transaction on this vendor would incur a greater than 26 million tax. Is there really somebody ingame willing to toss 26 million into a golden toilet. Maybe there is but I doubt it.

    Raise the cap. I don't care. Leave it as it is. I don't care. I'm not likely to ever sell or buy anything worth more than 175 million gold.

    My point is that IT DOES NOT MATTER! Nobody is going to piss away that much gold in tax.