1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice
  3. Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Hail Guest!,
    Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Author Wes Locher has teamed up with Stratics for a giveaway of his new book Braving Britannia. This book explores the history and impact of Ultima Online and includes interviews from current and past dev team members as well as many UO and Stratics community members. Click here for more details!
    Dismiss Notice

[OOC] The Void and the World of Daemons: Virtuebane

Discussion in 'UO White Stag Inn' started by WarderDragon, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. WarderDragon

    WarderDragon Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni BRPA

    Oct 9, 2008
    Likes Received:
    The Void and the World of Daemons: Virtuebane

    We've not seen the last of the Daemon Prince.

    See The Latest Edition of the BNN.

    Virtuebane planned to duplicate his world in place of ours? Therein lies a problem.

    If we understand Virtuebane to be a Daemon - a creature born of the Void - then we must infer the above is a contradiction of established Daemon Lore.

    Unless of course there is another explanation.

    But let us begin with a description of Daemons.

    The Daemons and Devils of Ultima Fiction hail from a netherous domain known as the Ethereal Void. (Compare to the Immaterium of Warhammer and the Astral Plane of Neo-Platonic and Rosicrucion Philosophical / Esoteric Schools.) This is the same Infernal Limbo from whence Sorcerers and Necromancers derive their Knowledge and Power.

    Daemons themselves are not sentient beings. The Infernal Ones do not sustain themselves on boiled flesh or grain but instead upon the Sins and Subconcious Fears of Mankind. (It can be infered that the Daemon Prince was made strong through the Pride of the Magincians. His aspect. If the Sin of the Magincians had been Lust or Deceit then we would have seen a rather different demon emerge.) Daemons cannot be killed on the Material Plane.

    If Virtuebane is a Daemon - or a Devil - he would not possess a homeworld. It is not in their nature. And we know from numerous fictional sources that the Ethereal Void is not encapsulated within the Shards but is instead a bridge that connects them. (See the Departure of Lord British and UO2 Lore.) This leaves us one of two options. Virtuebane is either an Extraterrestrial Being whom the Medieval Britannians perceive to be a Daemon - due to their limited understanding of the Cosmos - or Virtuebane is a Daemon that has managed to conquer another World or Shard.

    Tell me. Who from Ultima Lore went about conquering Worlds but was thwarted when he set his sights upon Britannia? Who in Ultima Lore engineered a Cult to summon him into Our World? Who in Ultima Lore - (Pre-Ultima IX) - was associated with the Shadowlords? Who in Ultima Lore sought to become the God of this World?

    The Guardian.

    So either the previous article is rife with misinterpretations of Ultima Lore - which is possible - or Virtuebane is our Parallel Universes version of the Guardian. Perhaps one falling into the same class of World Conqueroring Daemons that the Guardian is said to have belonged to prior to the Great IX Retcon.
  2. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Jun 5, 2008
    Likes Received:
    *applauds* Nicely done. Good summary, even in the event your forecast turns out to be less than completely correct.
  3. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Virtuebane in UO was presented as a kind of demon lord or higher-up. He wouldn't necessarily be subject to the rules of normal demons, even if our knowledge of those rules was complete and really how could it be?

    In an OOC sense, demon lore (or any lore) from Ultima is source material for UO, not a guide that has to be followed. Remember that on old Ultima, Virtuebane's status was ambiguous; he could have been anything from a lord down to a middle manager/supervisor. Some have said they remember him as just a normal demon, I remember him at least claiming to have more power than that.

    In an IC sense, demon lore (or any lore) from Ultima is one possibility, not a certainty.

    As I recall there've been implications in UO that demons come from someplace physical; I remember a post by Draconi talking about how disconcerting it was for demons to be summoned by mages, from their world into our own.

    And finally, in the post you linked to you linked to an article on Ultima demons from the website called "The Codex of Editable Wisdom," that article is here

    Daemons - The Codex of Ultima Wisdom, a wiki for Ultima and Ultima Online

    and based on it I don't see it being a contradiction for the demons to have a world of their own, at least some of them. I never thought the demons destroying Magincia in Ultima meant they were somehow created from Anti-Virtue, even in old Ultima (and most certainly in UO) I thought of them as physical creatures at least in some sense, as well as supernatural.

    -Galen's player