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OUR CURRENT ARMOR/WEAPON/JEWELRY MARKET

Discussion in 'UHall' started by sibble, May 5, 2018.

  1. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Grand Inquisitor
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    A guild mate and I have gone in with 2 tamers, 1 "regular", and one a provo/disco/tamer. It took us a while but we did finish off the 2 dark fathers. So, it CAN be done. Perhaps not as effectively as with a Sampire, but, none the less, doable.
     
  2. Finley Grant

    Finley Grant Crazed Zealot
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    well thats another point where you are wrong.

    i try to see the bigger picture.
     
  3. drcossack

    drcossack Crazed Zealot
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    You don't? Funny how there were two dexers down there both times (I would know, since I was one of them), which is how you managed to get it done in the first place. Also, 40 minutes? Is that for an entire cycle of the Gauntlet? If so, that's...not good. Why not do it with a setup that cuts the time by AT LEAST half, allowing you to get more kills and more chances at drops?

    I can agree with this. But how would you fix it? Unless they add even more powerful gear and make it harder to obtain from the start, the current market is so ridiculously saturated that there's no fixing it. But that's not a good solution either - the power creep of gear is why we're in this mess in the first place (crafted gear has SOME uses still, but not too many - luck suits and weapons, that's about it.) Global loot wasn't necessarily a bad idea, but perhaps it could have been phased in slowly?

    If the difficulty of the content kept up with the power creep of the gear, it wouldn't even be an issue. FF14 is on a 6-month cycle with the new gear it adds. About a year ago, the highest item level gear was 340 on armor/accessories (necklace, earrings, bracelet, Left/right rings) and 345 for w/e weapon you wanted to use. There was also 330 gear slightly below the 340, which had a weekly lock on the currency used to obtain it (basically, vvv points. But you're initially limited to 450 per week.) In January, the maximums went up: 370 and 375, with 360 Currency gear available; that gear will soon be replaced with 390 currency gear and 400/405 endgame raid gear. But the difficulty of the endgame content in FF14 goes up with the increase in gear. That doesn't happen in UO - take the "Endgame" in pvm. Shadowguard, Underwater Boss, Champ Spawns/the Harrower, etc. Only one of those things got a difficulty enhancement. The difficulty hasn't changed since they did that, and the same can be said for the rest of the old content (other than Doom, which only really affected the Fleshrenderer and Dark Father.) Did learning how to do each fight play a part? Yeah - when I first did Shadowguard, I didn't know what I was doing. But I learned how it worked after a couple trips.

    In pvp, I would think it's even worse from a gear standpoint. Before global loot, there were some legendary artifacts, but all the good ones had multiple negatives: Brittle (with low durability), Can't be Repaired, etc. Reforged gear was heavily used, as was imbued (likely to a lesser extent.) If you got a legendary artifact w/no negative properties (other than Luck -100, which I don't consider a negative), you hit the jackpot. What negative properties are there now? Antique, Str req 125, and 50 stones? 50 stones isn't even an issue. 125 str? Most people are beyond that, and have Resist. Antique? If you use it on a pvm character, it's not going to last. But it will last quite some time on a pvp-oriented character.
     
    King Greg likes this.
  4. Archnight

    Archnight Legendary Crusader
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    Thread has been cleaned up for a second time. Please keep all comments on topic without trolling or accusations. All posts that do not follow will be removed and warnings will be issued with a possible thread ban. Thanks for your understanding
     
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  5. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    PM me the copies pls. And Cossack called me a Trammie. Pls delete him.

    :postcount:
     
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  6. King Greg

    King Greg Lore Keeper
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    If players are getting smacked for calling other players trammies, can players start getting smacked for calling pvpers pkers in a negative connotation?
     
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  7. ShriNayne

    ShriNayne Certifiable
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    I almost choked on my tea I laughed so much! :D
     
  8. Archnight

    Archnight Legendary Crusader
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    The term originally was used by players who prefer Felucca, but has since achieved a somewhat broader acceptance, even being used by some Trammel players who describe themselves as "Trammies". I live in Fel but have learned to accept the terms... sticks & stones

    Care Bear.png
    *My care bear face :D
     
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  9. OREOGL

    OREOGL Crazed Zealot
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    Similar to the forced to go to fel argument, isn't it?
     
  10. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    I appreciate our mods cleaning up this thread and I'll do my part as well to try and keep it in the right direction.
     
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  11. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    For those just joining us:

    We're here to discuss our market

    Posts in this thread should include but not be limited to:
    1. What do you think of our current market?
    2. What changes have you seen in our market in the past 2 years?
    3. What do you think caused our market to change?
    4. Do you think our market needs to be changed?
    5. What ideas do you have that could boost our market?
    My point has and will stand to be that our market used to be highly-active with all levels of gear for the poor to the filthy rich. The market was that way because our community had cheaters simulate a market of a higher-populated community by multi-boxing many accounts. By getting rid of the cheaters the market has shrunk quite a bit. Is it supposed to be this way? Whose to say what way it's supposed to be and why? I sure didn't see anyone complaining back then! All I know is I had more fun then than I'm having now - it's harder to find equipment to suit my wants and needs for PVP. That's my personal opinion and how the market has affected me personally.
     
  12. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    If there are no 5 dex 10 stamina 10 lmc studded pieces + regen for sale for 150m. Then I would be happier with the pieces I have.

    I'm not going to complain about some multiboxers getting banned.
     
  13. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining that people got banned.

    I'm complaining about the market that got changed.
     
  14. It Lives

    It Lives Slightly Crazed
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    Sorry but this is naive, the cheaters are still in game. Some of the more blatant cheats may have been banned but the team still has a lot of work still ahead of them.

    The real reason the market is low is because the cheats are now selling mostly to each other lol. They are their own best customers.
     
  15. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    I never said anywhere that "all the cheaters are gone."

    I can assure you that one of the main "cheaters" who was supplying top end equipment to the market is no longer doing so. Whether he was banned or quit, I dunno.
     
  16. It Lives

    It Lives Slightly Crazed
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    The market is constantly changing and has done so throughout the game life...adapt or move on... really. Less legendary artifact armor/ weapons/ jewelry is really not a game breaker, at least it is not for a whole lot of others.
     
  17. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Well if you've played this game as long as I have, you'd know that there was really no market throughout most of this game's life. You can't compare selling "exceptionally crafted" base items to the ridiculous artifacts we have now. So I'm not really sure as to this "constantly changing market" you're referring to.

    IMO the market started when "global loot" was launched. From then til now are the changes I'm referring to.

    The market has changed because the main cheaters that used to run their multi-boxing scripts 24/7 are no longer doing so, you'd be naive to think otherwise.

    Like I've said in a previous comment, I know for a fact an advisor was multiboxing all day and night for years. You don't think that removing that person has an impact to the market?
     
    #117 sibble, May 8, 2018
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
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  18. It Lives

    It Lives Slightly Crazed
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    The market changed...no big deal. This game has no room for cheaters...my game the one that I play has no room for the cheaters sometimes its a lonely game....
     
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  19. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Well good we share the same opinion on that, I don't want cheaters in the game either.
     
  20. DreadLord Lestat

    DreadLord Lestat Social Media Liaison / Forum Moderator
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    I am temporarily locking this thread while it is cleaned up once again. While you wait, here is something to consider while people complain about the mods and how horrible Stratics is. We have had more then 10 reports in this thread in the past 2 days some posts have been reported multiple times, have removed 25 posts prior to this clean-up, and issued 3 in-thread warnings. The thread has changed topics as it went from a thread about the market, to cheating, and then into the ever popular tram vs fel debate. We have allowed a lot of leeway for discussion with very little action yet here we are with a thread that may soon be locked. All of the reported posts have come from people posting in the thread yet I see complaints about the moderation of it. I will be issuing thread bans on this final clean-up and will leave the readers with this last warning. Keep the thread on topic without accusations and trolling or it will be closed. Warnings will be issued where warranted. We can only allow so much leeway so keep it civil and within the RoC.
     
  21. DreadLord Lestat

    DreadLord Lestat Social Media Liaison / Forum Moderator
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    The thread has been cleaned for the last time. The thread is about the market and drops, it is not a rant, not about cheating, or tram vs fel discussion. For those wanting Fel vs Tram, there are currently three popular threads being discussed Devs make UO consensual PVP only, Make Ilshenar Felucca ruleset, and Felucca only shard. If you would like to join in on a rant in progress, please visit UO Speils and Rants. Discussions about cheating need to be discussed with Broadsword and you can start that by e-mailing [email protected].
     
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  22. Dorset

    Dorset Adventurer
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    One of the best threads I've read in a long time peeps.
    I'm just one of those players where I am happy if my suit adds up to all 70's! I do not need much more from a suit for the style I play and am more a collector of the grey robes!

    I've noticed over the years though prices go way up, they drop. It happens almost anytime something is new or changed with the game. Its just a cycle and a down turn time of the game we are going through. The people hording items will be back when the market suits them better, unless they have left altogether.

    I am not a vendor seller, but I do remember a quite a few years back when I had a shop the charge for vendor fees took too much and made it almost pointless. If they looked at doing something here any making it possible for people to sell items without this cost I think you'd find more items on the market today.
    And to be fair it could be just as said before people have simply left the game and taken their items with them. Players are dwindling, more probably play like me for the odd hour rather than a full 8 hour sessions like old days!!

    On a site note - If anyone has the time to explain to me what is considered "leet" on armour these days, I am all ears! :)

    Happy Wednesday !
     
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  23. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    For whatever reason mage armor drops frequently. There are nice mage pieces but they are not overly expensive unless they have 150 luck on them.

    Dexxer armor drops way less frequently.

    Basics: +5 dex +10 stamina +10 lmc all 20s resist any +3 regen are sought after.

    Add in some more things. +150 luck 20LRC +4 regen multiple +3 or 4 regens +10 Mana +5 Int, Studded

    Find a piece of studded with the basics and as many of the additional things as you can for the L33T stuff.
     
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  24. Lord Arm

    Lord Arm Lore Master

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    it is so easy to get good armor now. if u need, go get and play the game.
     
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  25. TB Cookie [W]

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    How can you talk about the market, without talking about the 2 tier system the market sits within?
    The other topics you suggest, do not deal with the issue of the market, this one does.

    In real life, when people talk about markets, they take into consideration the different systems and ideologies, and the affect they have on each other, as well as supply and demand.

    Protectionism, Tariffs, Capitalism, Communism, Globalisation, Free Trade, Fair Trade, Sustainable Trade, Regulated/Unregulated Trade.

    All of the above, have a massive affect on the flow of goods, beyond just supply and demand. They give the framework that supply and demand happen within.
    They all add a different nuance.

    You cannot talk about supply and demand in isolation.

    There you go, I did that without mentioning certain words, and hopefully you can see how valid it is.

    If you want to just talk about supply and demand, you aren't really going to get anywhere, if you ignore the elephant in the room.

    Would you agree or disagree?
     
    #125 TB Cookie [W], May 9, 2018
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  26. DreadLord Lestat

    DreadLord Lestat Social Media Liaison / Forum Moderator
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    I am not discussing anything and have not discussed anything other than all of posts that have been reported and all of the clean-up that has been done to keep the thread clean of trolling, accusations, and stuff like that. I have pointed out the OP's intention of the thread to keep it on track and not have it change direction into other topics. You are more than welcome to discuss what you have mentioned as long as it does not turn into you trammie, fel should be this, you are a pk not pvp, tram only, you are a cheat, you use this program, EC is better, CC is better etc etc. The thread has continually been taken off into those directions which needs to stop. If you want to discuss the ideology of pvp, which ruleset is better, why people prefer Felucca or Trammel, then go to one of the threads that I have mentioned because that is not part of the discussion in this one per the OP. My only posts in this thread is because it has gotten out of hand and that it is subject to close rather then continuing to clean it up only to have it derail again.
     
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  27. TB Cookie [W]

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    I know you weren't involved, and were just tidying up, but my point was to everyone, including you, to show the logic why the topic goes beyond what you expect.
    Being a gaming forum, we tend to use gaming terminology rather than economic terminology - which comes across more crudely, and people don't always get the link as to why other areas continuously get brought in. We also discuss the specifics of this specific games system.

    Ok, focusing on the market in generic terms. ;)

    The OP wanted to discuss multi-clienting and it's effect on the market.

    It's really hard to look at that, purely in isolation.

    Multi-clienting, I have no issues with, put it alongside many other factors and systems, and it all has a massive (potentially negative) impact on the market.

    I don't think anyone can sit here and say the current market is working hunky dory.

    I've tried to point out, there is a bigger over-riding issue, than some of the smaller processes within the main system.

    Being very specific, if by any means or many means, players can farm in an unlimited fashion with zero risk, it will flood the game economy, and make it pointless.

    If the Developers have a system in place, that allows this to happen, and they have to manually intervene in order for the economy to stand a chance - this is not sustainable.

    Now I may come across as extreme or hardcore with my resolutions, but they are purely based upon a certain logic.

    I am happy for anyone to debate my logic, or propose other ways - I can think of several other ways, but people always want to see the worst, and take it as inflammatory.
     
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  28. Coco_Zamis_DF

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    I agree to disagree.
    Talk about the topic.
    Findings so far.
    Some people may left, which usually farming spots . this means, less Farmer= less items.
    At least one spot has lost its item power.
    Only pvp needs über items.?!
    It's all about money.

    My findings. I don't needs additional stuff. I can life with good gears. My castle is full. Well i still go for better items, but don't whine if i didnt geht more.
     
  29. Finley Grant

    Finley Grant Crazed Zealot
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    the good news is that from what i hear the supply of end game no names should be back soon. so no need to worry. :pirate:
     
  30. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Grand Inquisitor
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    Why, may I ask, do you think/say that?
     
  31. Finley Grant

    Finley Grant Crazed Zealot
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    @Keith of Sonoma

    because i know people, and they are not the kind who would give up basically printing money just because mesanna starts to act like the tos mean something.
    some of them are quite smart, they will adapt and go on.
     
    #131 Finley Grant, May 9, 2018
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
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  32. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    So one of my ideas was this:

    EM events drop cool looking rare items for people to either sell or put in their house etc. I'm NOT saying get rid of those, I'm saying IN ADDITION TO - let's say 5 rare pack drops go out at an event, maybe we can get like 10 randomly rolled legendary pack drops to go out to people as well?

    If you're against this idea please don't put "no people have enough loot" and give an actual reason why this could potentially not be good for the game! Let's get some constructive criticism please.


    Corpse loot off bosses can hold a TON of items and sometimes you don't have enough chance to pick and grab. Also EC will often crash because of the amount of loot. This statement is semi-off-topic, but meant as a reason in-addition-to.
     
    #132 sibble, May 9, 2018
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  33. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    This thread is about our market, not how easy/hard it is to farm loot. The point of this thread is to address the fact that there is a decrease in armor/weapons/jewelry for sale.

    I have gold I want to spend on items - not items to lock down in a house and look at, items I can wear to progress my character.
     
  34. TaldarinZPhoenix

    TaldarinZPhoenix Adventurer

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    Sibble,
    I hear and agree with your argument that the loot lingering from 2 years ago especially in PVP is out-classing the strength and availibility of items in our current market.

    I also believe I understand your motivations are to improve the games economy, and to improve variety of high end gear and to potentially make it more affordable.

    In my opinion, a big dissappointment for me from lets say 2013-2015 era to now is the power creep introduced by these items. Stygian champ spawns were fun and some of them a bit tough, Exodus was a challenge, dreadhorn solo farming (well the changelings...) was a challenge but fun.

    For me, with the a availability (or lets say gross overavailibility) of the new loot, players can have nearly +60-80 more skill points in thier template than they used to and not have to “trade” anything for it. Stats are all at max (and many overcapped). Yes in 2013-2014 with reforging someone could invest an incredible amount of time and resources to make “the perfect suit” and many did (and still do, im still woking on my luck suit), but in my opinion, flooding the market with MORE items will do 1 of two things.
    1) It will trivialize most content for most players as everyone has end game loot 2 months into farming for it, and will burn out because the rest of the game is now just a “grind”
    Or 2) they will continue to “re-vamp” dungeons. (Which also come with new and more powerful loot... scholars halo..) like, Shame, doom, etc and casual, or new players will have a much higher step to take to be able to get into this content, and then power creep continues on.

    In my opinion the solution to our market problem is to “flush the toilet” so to speak. Re-do item stats.... as one example, make the MR cap 300, and new gear has 10-40 MR on it. This invalidates existing MR4 items

    In PVP, make a PvP specific thing on items (like mage armor) that you can put on items. If your items dont have it, they are not counted in PvP. All existing loot except named items cannot have this property added to it.

    In my opinion, We need a power re-equilibration, not a power amplification
     
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  35. TaldarinZPhoenix

    TaldarinZPhoenix Adventurer

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    As a side note with EM rewards....Blackthorn items did something really really cool.... they allow you to choose what TYPE of cloak/robe/pauldron/sash/tunic etc you are wearing.
    I would love it if EM events gave an “item transmog” thing where you choose the stats of one item and put that onto the appearance of another (or maybe take it one step further and say allow a studded leather protector of the battle mage like mace and shield was put onto plate) I love the stats on hawkwinds robe, but I want to have my characters hair showing. Also, i dont want a big puffy turtle shell on my head. But alas, the items are good.
     
  36. Angleswings

    Angleswings Adventurer

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    I heard the same thing, they already adapted and already back farming the super high end legendaries, using 10+ accounts.
     
  37. Great DC

    Great DC Lore Keeper
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    I think the problem with the market stems from a gold problem, not items so much. There is no good gold sinks that are used highly in the game. I've said this before a few times, but they need to fix this problem first. There should be no reason why a single player gathers like 500 platinum.

    One way to curb the massive gold in UO is to remove town bonus from governor control. Make each town a specific one or two bonuses, then make the individual player pay each day to acquire it (like 100k). This would not only help solve the gold issue it would also remove all the cross-shard voting nonsense. Bringing the total amount of gold down in the game would in turn lower prices of everything, make doing content much more appealing.

    You can also spread out the no-name items to more then just ML content too, giving everyone a fairer chance of collecting it which would also bring the prices down and add more items to the market. I could go on and on about ways to resolve this so Ill just stop here for now.
     
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  38. Angleswings

    Angleswings Adventurer

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    They should Revamp Crafter's, every since this new legendary business came out, I lost my crafter job.
    The solution would, let us craft 12,13,14 Mods Items, Give us special hammers (ingame store) to open more slot's with a Max of 16 Slots. It is a win win for everybody, UO Store make more money, as it would require a charge been used for each extra slot, would make all of us crafters happy.
     
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  39. North_LS

    North_LS Journeyman

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    i would like better chances at getting my own very high end drops from endgame content. i buy pieces to fill holes in my suits here and there, but i like putting my stuff together on my own. it'd be nice to get a decent jewelry drop without an antique tag too - i burn through those fast on pvm characters.
     
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  40. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    So, you are saying the Bans did hit the correct accounts. Is that true?

    Many posters said they would not affect the multiboxxers. Thats how this thread started. Why are there fewer L33T items for sale. I like that answer if it is true.
     
  41. Finley Grant

    Finley Grant Crazed Zealot
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    from what i heared some accounts got banned but they will never catch all.
    i was not at an event quite some time but the roumors i heard about events is that basically most of them dont do events as its too risky.
    the way to go for them is to not do this in "public" if you´d ask me. but i could be wrong.
     
  42. Pawain

    Pawain I Hate Skilling
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    Good to hear. Many complaints were about multiboxers at Events and the Devs not doing anything.

    They need to go underground now. So, the players who want to be UO police can find them in other areas and page on them. Or they can just play.

    Watch the items on the suspected vendors and see what starts appearing and you can figure out where the multiboxers have gone to.

    Who wants to lead that investigation?
     
  43. kaio

    kaio Lore Master
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    1 What do you think of our current market?
    2 What changes have you seen in our market in the past 2 years?
    3 What do you think caused our market to change?
    4 Do you think our market needs to be changed?
    5 What ideas do you have that could boost our market?

    1) Marked is good for buyers, suppliers not so much (EG lower price due to over itemization over time)
    2)Marked has exploded in terms of increase in items overall for sale (Meaning prices goes down..supply > demand)
    3)Growth of items dosent reflect the decay of items. (demand < supply)
    4) As a buyer no, for the health of the ECO system yes.
    5)Boost is an relative expression. Marked needs to be around demand, not supply in endless masses without decay. Only way to do this is to make items go out of the ECO system faster.
     
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  44. North_LS

    North_LS Journeyman

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    it sounds to me like this has a lot less to do with multiboxers than it does with the correction of loot tables on certain specific named mobs. I'm assuming the multiboxers were the ones taking most advantage of those mobs, but it kinda sucks if we cant get at least a decent shot at these items via legitimate means anymore either.

    maybe loot tables on higher end mobs need to be adjusted up alongside the aggressive multiboxer bans instead of nerfed. enhance our chances at getting these items for ourselves legitimately while cracking down on those doing so in violation of game rules.

    Bottom line, i dont care where my gear comes from as long as its what i want and its affordable / obtainable. If you kill off the current grey market suppliers, make the gear more readily available to those willing to adhere to game rules.
     
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  45. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Grand Inquisitor
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    So, in your own words, "you know people". Please feel free to correct me, but MY OPINION would be, if you know they are breaking the rules, and don't page/email/whatever on them, then you are actually in some (perhaps small, but none the less some) way responsible for the continued violations. Is that not a valid opinion?

    I had someone tell me once, about a certain person that does a lot of IDOC's, "sure he breaks the rules with scripts/rails, but he is a nice guy. He tells me where they are, and shares some of the loot." It was the funniest/saddest thing I heard all day! ROFL

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
     
    #145 Keith of Sonoma, May 10, 2018
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  46. North_LS

    North_LS Journeyman

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    That's quaint and all, but my personal view is i dont care one bit what anyone else does in the game as long as it doesnt directly affect me negatively. If i pass by someone scripting their face off, what harm does it really do me? why should I page? because my delicate sensibilities have been offended? lolno. what do i care if someone macros up their skills while they're asleep or kills whatever mob afk for a while as long as they arent monopolizing content i want to use?

    I get a lot more enjoyment from the game just letting others do their thing while i do mine than i would by paging on everyone doing something i think might be against TOS. Rule enforcement is Broadsword's job, not mine. Unless exploits are being used directly against me, not my problem.
     
  47. It Lives

    It Lives Slightly Crazed
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    At some it will become an issue for you. It may not be apparent because of your low profile play style but these "exploits" hurt everyone.
     
  48. North_LS

    North_LS Journeyman

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    by filling the market with affordable top end gear? it may come as a shock that i'm okay with that. why should it be exclusive to those who can pay billions per piece?
     
  49. Great DC

    Great DC Lore Keeper
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    The problem is anyone that goes to solo or even dual client kill those monsters (such as abbcess) it takes a long time to get the high end gear. Every account you use doubles the amount of loot generated per kill. In order to do what those people were doing youd need 6-10 accounts killing the same thing over and over, hence why it was scripted. If they ran that all day they might only get ten high end drops. The regular player has no chance to compete with that legally, unless they like standing in one spot for 20 hours with two accounts and never leave the house or have a life. And why is it that only higher end ML monsters have that type of loot and not other things in the game. Balance the loot table across all harder to kill mobs and make it easier for the everyday joe to attempt to collect these things.
     
  50. It Lives

    It Lives Slightly Crazed
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    The Gear Is just a symptom of the larger issues.

    I am not shocked you are ok with the state of the game. There are a lot of people who just don't care.