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Promoting UO and EJ

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Tyrath, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    I have been doing this quite a bit of late on forums that I own, mod, or am just a member on. It is proving to be quite difficult to sell people on the idea of returning to UO. The number one question that arises is "Have they done anything to curb the rampant cheating in UO?" I can't with anything resembling a straight face tell them YES THEY HAVE. A few have looked up EJ and respond back with "You are kidding right?" Most of the folks in these forums are in the 45-75 year old range and a amazingly large number played UO from 97-AOS with about 1/3 that played playing through SE. Most of these forums are of the survivalist, prepper, homesteader, and cooking variety.

    Something I have noticed in those communities is that us heavily armed, backwoods bunker nuts really like our immersive video games that don't have a one and done end game. The other brick wall is the up front cost folks keep pointing out that IF they did go EJ and decided to go back to subbing that it would cost a pretty good chunk of change to upgrade and have all of the features......... More than they would be willing to pay for a 20 year old video game. That part is frustrating for me as overall we are not a poor segment of the population, and won't hesitate to drop $10,000 on a pallet of ammo or but a truck load of MREs but will freak out over $10 per month for UO wich IMO is about the cheapest and biggest bang for the buck entertainment around.... Short of the the free porn sites.

    Almost everyone tried free shards after leaving official UO and out of the couple hundred people I have spoken with over the last few weeks only 2 actively play free shards with the general theme being "They are OK for a while but overall free shards suck."

    So how do you promote a video game like UO that has so much negative history attached to it? The cheating and the cost seem to be the Two Major reasons people left and will not return at least in my circles.

    So I am wondering if others have been trying to promote UO and running into brick walls largely of EAs own making or lack of dealing with? The cost I can counter with "Yeah you just dropped $40,000 on a CAT generator to power a cabin.......... that would power a small town, don't tell me you can't afford a couple hundred bucks for UO." The bigger one that I really have no counter for is the cheating that for all practical purposes appears to be allowed and condoned.

    I am really not trying to be negative but until they crush the majority of cheating in the game and do so very publicly, bringing people back into UO that largely left because of the rampant cheating is going to be a monumental if not impossible task from what I am experiencing. I can't lie to these folks either and tell them it is better, or it is being cracked down on. It would take one log in to see otherwise and would then hurt my credibility within those communities......... Which given my position in some is very important, if I endorse or sell a product folks expect the full truth, the good, the bad and the big ugly warts hanging off the backside. And as it is the Cheating in its various forms is one big ugly wart hanging off UOs backside, that just can't be covered up or obscured. So give me something, anything to counter and overcome the cheating that 4 out of 5 people I speak with point to as a reason they left and as a reason they won't return!
     
    Lord Arm likes this.
  2. Lore

    Lore Sage

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    I play with Warcraft and Final Fantasy players and those are my friends. Only a handful have played UO and they just remember the cheating and internet speed differences. When I tell them about the game they talk about templates which inevitably ends up me telling them that only a couple templates actually do content and PVP for scrolls and paying for scrolls with real money and paying for this and that for real money because you won't have it available to you.
     
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  3. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I have nothing to offer regarding objections former players have to the rampant cheating. I will just add that the people I know who used to play don't play now because they can't justify the cost. They would need to open at least two accounts--one for a house on Atlantic and one for a house on another shard--to feel like they are getting the most they can out of UO and that $30/month is just too much.
     
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  4. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    The cost factor has been a very close second to the point Cheating and Cost are about equal in the reasoning.
     
  5. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    Amazingly Graphics are rarely if ever mentioned, but by and large the majority of older game players seem to care more about playability than cartoonish 3D rendering.
     
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  6. ShriNayne

    ShriNayne Lore Master

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    My sister wouldn't come back because 'the jerking CC screen gave her a headache' :(
     
  7. Lord Arm

    Lord Arm Sage

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    almost everyone I know that has left the game was because of cheating/unfair practices. the cheating has caused more people leave the game than anything else. what do u think will happen when EJ comes out? I call it endless cheating.
     
  8. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Endless journey is free, im not seeing the issue with the cost factor. its just a way for someone to check out the game, and if they arent really that active can log in and mess around or say hi to freinds every so often. Also great for those who just want to hop on and pvp for a couple months a night.

    Thats pretty much the point, its to allow those who couldnt justify 10 to 15 bucks a month the ability to log on to their account. Most vets would already have an account, i think new Endless journey accounts are free? And the base, full game will be inluding up to Stygian abyss after endless journey goes live.

    My freinds who used to play just dont want to play because UO was a great game for them and they just want to remember it how it was. i dont think it would matter if UO paid them to play, they still wouldnt. Endless journey is a great option for its intended purposes, which gives someone who actually wants to play, or check out their old accounts the ability to log into them for free.
     
  9. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    The people I know loved building and decorating houses, so I don't think they would be happy with Endless Journey for more than about 10 minutes. After that they'd be asking themselves if the current subscription cost is worth it, especially if all their characters are on a small shard and trying to buy anything means you do it on Atlantic and therefore probably need a house there so you can make characters who can go out and hunt stuff to earn some gold. I just don't think my friends will want to pay the subscription fee and then have to pay for gold in order to buy power scrolls. They'd survive on imbued armor for quite a while, but it's that inability to buy power scrolls on most shards that I think kills it for a lot of people who are nowhere near being eligible for shard shields and don't know other people well enough to trust them to ask them to transfer stuff if they can somehow make enough gold on Atlantic to buy anything.

    The people I know who might come back are very unlikely to participate in EM events because they have families and/or live on the west coast, which is not conducive at all to EM event participation since most events occur during the early evening hours for them. So saying that they can get EM event drops and sell them is not an answer, especially if all their decent characters are isolated on one small shard and they are not going to want to pay $20 each for transfer tokens to move them to another shard to do EM events they can't get to.

    I think for a lot of people who were teenagers when they last played, coming back to UO today means they are doing it on a much tighter schedule and likely with a smaller budget. Their characters are probably not on Atlantic and they are going to gasp at the idea that transfer token costs have not gone down one bit since they left. I think the condition of UO's economy and the subscription cost are probably going to bug a lot of them more, initially, than the discovery that cheating hasn't declined, that general and help chat are cesspools on the more populated shards, and that the dev team has nothing much of anything to say about the future of the game to anyone who isn't a favorite or a contractor.
     
  10. Archnight

    Archnight Legendary Crusader
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    See for me I don't see that as being the main reason why people are leaving... sure it's an issue that would need to be addressed more but then again if you stopped everyone from scripting in PVP, PVE, IDOC's and Skill Training i'm sure UO would just close down. Here's a post I found to be very accurate with games in general including UO

    "I work in a studio, which develops web-browsed online games.
    We have close to 100,000 users, who log in and play on a daily basis. The game is free to play with microtransactions. We are in business for 12 years already. We have cheaters, scripters, bot-selling sites, everything you could possibly imagine.
    We have a team of 60 people, who are responsible for developing the game. Half of them are top-notch, highly professional programmers, hackers and testers. The other half are artists and Commnunity Managers. As you can see we are quite a team. And we are responsible for supporting just ONE game. If all you say is true about how big BS is, we are 10 times bigger. And we still cannot deal with all the cheaters. As soon as you figure out how the script is working and you apply a hotfix, on the next day you have a modified script and you have to think new hotfix. The noisiest part of our community was making a huge fuss about it. Our bosses were quite upset at the start, because cheating was a big deal. Then they decided to take a different approach. They ordered the dev team to make statistics, so they can get the big picture:

    1. How many players are actually cheating?
    2. How many players are making the fuss?
    3. What do the players actually want in game as priotiry? Fixes? Anti-cheating measures? New content?

    The results were:

    1. Less than 1% of the daily active players are cheating.
    2. Lest than 1% of the community is actually making fuss about it.
    3. 75% of the players want new content as a priority (3 months of in-game polls).

    Then the bosses were like: Excuse me? And we are budgeting half of our man-hours to fighting scripters and applying hotfixes? Everyone is on new content as of tomorrow!
    And the daily active users actually started to grow... So, the bosses told us: "See? We are correct again. The numbers are rising, money is more. Trust us on this."

    This is the typical way of making business, when your business is online gaming - you read the statistics and then, based on these statistics, you prioritize your team's working hours.
    Now, apply the same logic for BS and you will understand the truth. Yes, UO has cheaters. But they don't bother the large % of the players in it. They only bother small fraction of the playerbase - those, who log into Stratics. Not more than 100 people, at most, for example.

    Just my 2 cents."
    ********************

    Now if you want more concrete proof relating to UO then check these from Steam

    *********************************************************************************************
    "Im an old school UO player and agree with what people are saying. Regardless,if UO was on Steam, I would play it. I think the biggest problem with the game now is it just doesn't have a player base, which Steam would definitely bring to it."

    "have a killer account that i have left behind but im not worried about it... its time to just move on..."

    "Actually I don't expect UO to be a F2P game, but it's too expensive. Many UO players now don't have time to play everyday. However, we still have to pay for it everyday. Now we have a lot of choice. I myself have PS4. Most of my PS4 games only have to pay once. Of course, PSN Plus is not free, but it's relatively cheep. Therefore, I think uo need to change its strategy.."

    "Two years and no interaction with the community. What a great company"

    "Current servers are unplayable from any new players (except if you join immediately a guild and they will give you all you need)..because over-itemization and inflated economy (due wrong design decisions in the past years) killed this balance.
    A world where everyone will start from scratch, new players can craft and trade low-level things and enjoy all dungeons, will be a blasting experience. Nowdays all dungeons are empty on official servers now except the high levels - and it's pointless to farm on lower ones, the loot you get is totally trash and doesn't worth a thing to existing players."

    "In Turkey, this game left its place to private servers because of the monthly subscription. "

    "Its still a fun game but compared to all those others out there it is NOT worth the monthly fee."

    "Hope fully Ultima Online maybe change subscription model to 1 paid time price. It sure Ultima online have a great for ever time, if game remove subscription I dare to pay 69-89$ for great game like this !"

    "I wish I could play this again with my friends, but not going for a subscription model!"

    "Pre-Tram this game was awesome. It's on life support now and is neglected."

    "This game doesn't need to be "resurect"ed as it's still going. It's just been turned into crap that has no reseblance of the eras people remember, and "BS Games" is just a downsized downsized EA "

    "If this game went F2P then I think it would see a big revival and a return of many of its previous players while also attracting the next generation of MMO lovers."

    Ope, i'm on page 11 and not one mention of cheating being the issue here...."


    So as you can see, price (f2p) and content (new/fixes) seem to be more a reason that people are leaving than cheating. Maybe the people you canvased left because of that but I can assure you they're a minority especially with all the other free games out there, including those that left for freeshards. I seriously hope that UO will base Endless Journey like RuneScape (World's largest Free MMORPG) since they also offer the Freemium model and are very successful at it. I find there's ALOT of confusion and misinformation regarding EJ (Endless Journey – Ultima Online), people need to wait until all the details are released but there definitely needs to be restrictions to avoid abuse and cheating

    Please do share through PM, I would love to create an account and chat with you there :D
     
  11. Slayvite

    Slayvite Babbling Loonie
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    All i can say on this for now is that they cannot police it now when we give them the info on a plate,...
    ... how are they gonna do it when it's EJ and multiple accounts are springing up faster than they can delete then...they have probably never heard of IP maskers, Router silencers or reverse DDos attacks......
    other AAA MMO's spend millions on policing it but we can do it with our 5 Devs? lol
    :facepalm:

    Can we forget about Steam though now, it's never going to happen and that has nothing to do with Broadsword.
    EA spat their dummies out over money and stopped ANY EA game from going to Steam, they are now making their own version to try to kill Steam off.
     
  12. Dorset

    Dorset Adventurer
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    I started with playing with some old school friends back in 98 when we were in our teens. I've tried over the years to dangle the carrot and get them back into it, a few have tried but never stuck around.

    Main reasons for this were;
    - The population, UO use to be for groups now you can do it nearly all on your own. Feels more like a solo game with the odd person you can talk too now. I understand the population is not what it was and times have moved on, but this was a huge part of the drawn to UO.
    - The cheating, I play on a quiet server now. If you roam around in the wilderness for one end of the map to the other like me, its amazing what you see. Recall in-recall out. Chars grinding spawns for drops, yes we can report them but what actually happens? I had nothing to argue back with.
    - The way the game has become so item dependant and over complicated for a 20+ year game. People use to love it for the basic game it was, designers have got far to carried away over the years. The flashy horrific items, should not be part of UO.
    - Everything feels like its been done 75%, new features are never completely finished off. Old features/content are left to rot. I get they have limited resources, but why not putting 100% into something and doing it well.

    But hey the problem could be with a group of 30+ guys trying to recapture the fun we use to have. Its just a shame that EA/Broadsword have a massive original fan base and do absolutely nothing about it. UO is unique in the way the player base is older, probably got a few more spare $ and do nothing to attract them back to a game.
    As people said before you have private servers but they are not UO, usually run by some over zealous owner and a group who shout the loudest, hang on.......... :bdh:

    I really hope this EJ is a step in the right direction. Best of luck :thumbup:
     
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  13. Lore

    Lore Sage

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    Good post, but UO is different. Cheating affects all aspects from economy, resources available, PVP, unattended boss killing, and duplicating rare items.
     
  14. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    The sheer amount of gold cheated into the economy..... LOL all of those gold sellers get those endless plats from somewhere :)
     
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  15. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    I am guessing it would take about 1-2 post for myself or one of the mods to ban you on our newest forum :p

    SMFP.png
     
  16. Archnight

    Archnight Legendary Crusader
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    Your right, but they're getting it from 20 years of back and forth... Seller sells the gold to the buyer for real money, the buyer buys back from the seller in gold (rares, armor, homes etc). The interesting part is most don't even realize it's happening lol
     
    Lore likes this.
  17. Archnight

    Archnight Legendary Crusader
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    Seems like your a Monkey++ over there... does that mean your very bananas? Hehe :p
     
  18. Lore

    Lore Sage

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    LOL Hadn't thought about the fact that a lot of the gold probably ends up going back to them.
     
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  19. skittles1337

    skittles1337 Journeyman
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    What kind of rampant cheating are you referring to?
     
  20. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I was informed recently that all PvPers use Xy and Z for everything from speeding you up to removing 90% of housing and trees and everything else and then laughed at and told that no one gets banned for any of that... so it's not really cheating.


    Oh and to set the record straight @Tyrath most of the people I used to know that played that won't play anymore ever again are that way because of cheats and cheating. They give me crap about still playing because UO is a "corrupt cesspool of disease full of cheaters, hackers and scumbags..." and most other games give a rats about their players and such and actively fight back from that... they keep telling me the only people that still play are either like me... dreamers... or they are cheating scum.

    Personally I think there are 3 types of players left... dreamers(prey), predators and enablers. Those who play to prey on others for profit... those who pay for it.... and those who assist the profiteers... by being victims.
     
    #20 MalagAste, Dec 7, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  21. Potgut

    Potgut Seasoned Veteran
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    When ppl brings up UO on reddit (usually prior players) I'll bring up the Endless Journey topic and many of them become intrigued about it since they haven't heard about it yet. Then they often question whether they will be able to re-activate their old closed accounts with EJ and such.

    I think EJ will mostly mostly appeal to people who played UO in the past, nostalgia, and probably the kind of casual players who like to play on/off.

    I'm thinking the UO dev might have to throw some sort of huge bone (e.g. personal gate from your house to a piece of personal piece of land you can modify/customize or something) to really justify the monthly pay subscription and keeping people paying while also enticing new players to buy.

    I personally hope EJ brings the kind of success and structure akin to what Runescape is having.
     
  22. skittles1337

    skittles1337 Journeyman
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    You guys really need to play games where they really hack. I don't personally use anything like speeder or that specific program that removes trees and part of houses, but this really doesn't give that huge of advantage. People who play in EC should never see someone speedup on them, if anything using EC is cheating in my book. It allows you to be faster than any normal player in CC and gives you plenty of options to navigate terrain so you will never run into trees or stumps. Its a huge advantage over CC and I am confused as to why you would make one client superior to another. I've been pvping for a long time and I've never seen someone cheat to the point it really enhanced their gameplay. This game is compete skill, hacks are limited and provide very very very little enhancement, compared to other games like CSGO/PUBG where a hacker can ruin a game. People just blame cheating because they can't compete.
     
  23. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    My bad I used the SM screenshot, I am just a member there and a Monkey +++ +=$5 donation per Month ++=$15 +++ = $20 or more LOL I never Googled Thunder5Ranch before LOL there is a whole lot of info about my companies out there and some really hot pics of me at work in the more photos section :).............

    100_1758.JPG 100_2918.JPG
     
  24. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    the main advantage pvpers, or anyone else gets from cheating is gold, which of course enhances gameplay. and its blantantly obvious and noticeable.

    according to my question for mesanna at the 20th much of that will be cleaned up after endless journey goes live, but only time will tell how effective the GMs will actually be.
     
    #24 Smoot, Dec 7, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  25. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    Why would anyone play games like you describe?
     
  26. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    i play both those games. and you still play because if its casual, you can just leave the server and play another one. depending the level of competition, cheating results in a ban. in cs go you can also vote a suspected cheater out of the game.

    These are games where your not bound to a server, or a character that took months or years to train and gear, so not really comparable to UO.
     
    #26 Smoot, Dec 7, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  27. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    Thank You.
     
  28. Great DC

    Great DC Sage
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    I think cheating is a concern in this game as much as anyone else does. But I also think in order for it to be combated in any way there has to be a much larger team then our current devs. The way to get more team member is to make more money for the game, which mean more new game content. Right now the only thing to do to get updated gear is to run the roof, unless you script farm some monster with multiple accounts. Why cant the player choose what boss he wants to fight and get the same good gear as the roof? Why don't they add a couple new drops to all the bosses in the game, like ML bosses, Champ Spawns, Navrey, Stygian dragon and so on...? Just like any game people play if you do the same thing over and over youll get bored and move on to a different game. Add some variety back to UO and keep people interested and playing, then when the money comes back, add more devs to the team and once you have enough people, dedicate a few to deal with the cheating aspects. Bottom line is just give people a reason to play the game, stop with the same ol same ol and people will come play. That's my 32 cents! :D
     
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  29. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Poobah
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    Which one is you in the bottom Pic? :lol::lol:
     
  30. Lore

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    I just hope you guys don't keep asking for EJ to be so gimped it's not fun to play..
     
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  31. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    LOL just the bloody hand is me :) That was actually a picture one of the local newspapers used in a story about the farm, they wanted a story and pics of a sow farrowing and little blonde just happened to be a few hours out when they called. And of course it had to be a farrowing with complications that required me getting a case of the nasty hands, but some nasty hand is worth it to get the whole litter out alive.
     
  32. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    I would actually like to see it less gimped than what we have been told of it thus far.
     
  33. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Poobah
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    I dont believe you. I didn't know you had so many nipples.

    That pic reminds me of my Sisters Wiemerriner (sp) The dog had 4 pups. After a few weeks it did not want to nurse. I went to visit her, I arrived at 2am and saw a light in the back. She was in a shed with the dogs. The Mother was sitting upright and my sister was plugging in puppies and holding them in place. The mother had a "get these things away from me look". My sis kept plugging them in as needed until they were weened.
     
  34. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    Seen Runescape mentioned a few times. Runescape was/is a different critter in that it Started out F2P and is set up server wise totally different than UO When Members (Subs) came out initially members could go anywhere in the world and there was a big wall keeping non members out of member areas. That later evolved into several of the servers being converted to F2P and the content of those server limited to what was available for free players. The Free Client also had one very noticable difference from the Members Client...... That is why the Jagex F2P and Sub model work so well. I don't know how it is now days but When Andrew, Paul and Ian Gower were running Jagex they had little patience or mercy for cheaters in their game. Used to be flashing system messages on top of the screen when they caught and banned a cheat.
     
  35. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    LOL, that one I will never forget she finally started at 8pm and it was like -20 with howling winds outside and the reporter had never seen anything born before. She had to step outside to puke and the windchill was so bad some of it froze to her chin and she had to go out and puke again when she figured out what was on her chin. I ended up spending the night in the farrowing shed making sure all the little ones stayed close to mom and under the heat lamp. Was a balmy 80 degrees where they are in the pic. 3 feet either way and it dropped to 10-20 degrees. And the reason I will never forget is I ended up getting frost bite on my left knee that I didn't even notice until I went in to take a shower the next morning. Amniotic fluid I kneeled in froze my jeans to my knee and I have a cool scar where the Doc cut the dead tissue out. My pitbull Luka had the same problem at 3 weeks she just refused to nurse the pups anymore, I finally just said screw it since they were eating anyway and just started mixing warm goats milk in with their food. Much easier than trying to get Luka to stand still for 9 puppies.
     
  36. skittles1337

    skittles1337 Journeyman
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    Lol first of all Mesanna isn't banning a single paying player, look at how strict she is coming down on EJ players. Its rather funny because EJ players really have little impact on what happens in game. They can't get drops or anything valuable, but she feels the need to drop the hammer. The issue resides in the current "paying" player base and I don't believe Mesanna has the spine to actually ban paying players. Mesanna isn't tough on anyone, she perma banned someone a couple years ago for IRL and in game harassment (really really bad stuff). Only to give them all of their accounts back within 6 months, trust me you guys are wanting a savior, but its not Mesanna.
     
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  37. skittles1337

    skittles1337 Journeyman
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    Because they are fun? Many people still wonder why we play such a dead game, its because its fun.
     
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  38. petemage

    petemage Lore Master

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    I rather think those words are to make her followers happy. They must be bugging her since the announcement of EJ to retain their status quo. I too doubt there will be any changes, as long as you keep paying for your accounts.
     
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  39. petemage

    petemage Lore Master

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    The couple of games I know that fall into that category usually have huge player bases. A single offender has little impact to spoil everybody's day. For example GTA Online. Sessions limited to 30 players. Hundreds of sessions there at each point of the day. You just got to pause menu, change the session and move on. Or go to passive mode and grab a coffee until he is bored. Or just go to your home. On the other hand I've met dozens of nice people over the last 2 years there, to some of them I almost talk daily through PSN.

    It's like Atlantic. If you look at it from outside, with GC and all, it looks a big cesspool. But as soon as you start living there, you will also realize there is tenfold nice people who don't make a deal out of it but just live their life. Sure you can focus on the drama in GC. But you can focus on a fun trip with some friends hunting stuff and not reading GC at all.

    "conformation bias" is what comes to my mind here. Like living in a bigger city. There's tenfold trash people here compared to my hometown. But then on the other hand there a hundreds of excellent people here that I would never get in contact with in my small home town. Still people in my home town, who barely visit the city once a year, will tell me how dangerous and brutal it is to live in the city compared to their villages.