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Question on pet strength

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by Keith of Sonoma, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Grand Inquisitor

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    This question has come up.

    Looking at a cold drake vs. a white wyrm:

    How does the over possible capped strength (say 800) on a white wyrm compare to the possible over capped tactics (say 125) on a cold drake with regard to the amount of damage it does.

    My thought is that a white wyrm with 800 strength, chiv, and armor ignore would do more damage than a cold drake with the same. From what I have read it seems that the strength (100 over cap)would give more of a damage bonus than the tactics (5 over cap).

    Assuming they both "start life" at 3 slots and cold drake's strength raised to 700.

    Anybody have any feedback? @Donavon @Pawain
     
    #1 Keith of Sonoma, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
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  2. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    Of the two choices, I prefer the cold drake. They can have wrestling and tactics over 120.

    Also I like the smaller profile. I just bonded this one. I may put Chiv on it.

    upload_2017-12-5_21-23-10.png

    @Khaelor Like the Wyrms. Maybe he will chime in.
     
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  3. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Grand Inquisitor

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    Right, I like the Drake as well. But the over capped strength possibility, with perhaps more damage output because of it, on the wyrm has got me scratching my head. LOL
     
  4. Mordha

    Mordha Journeyman

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    The white wyrm with 800 str, will most likely be 4 slot pet.
    So the cold drake gets my vote. Even though the white wyrm is one of my all time favorite pets.
     
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  5. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Grand Inquisitor

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    I would have thought so as well, but a guild mate was talking about one he has with 800+ strength that is a 3 slot. Which is how the whole discussion got started. :)
     
  6. Mordha

    Mordha Journeyman

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    Fair enough. I'd bet theirs is a pre pub 97 WW. I have a couple myself that are over the 700 str cap and are 3 slot, but are also from long before pub 97 as well.
     
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  7. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Grand Inquisitor

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    Ah, I didn't think about that. It might very well be. Thanks for the input!
     
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  8. Donavon

    Donavon Sage
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    Good evening all, there are so many good specs for those 2 pets.. damage wise on short lived fights they will be farily close to one another.. let just say they are both pure AI chiv spec , if the drakes Hp is least 800(because of EOO empower breath attacks) , then they will still be pretty close in alround damage... the key diff between the two is the WW(pre pub 97 3 slot) will have better sustained damage as it doesn't have breath attack, and its extra str will add about 80-120 damage to empower moves like armor ignore( varies based on str)... Now the pros of the Drake are that its high Tactics makes boss level monster and other spawn do considerably less damage to him... as the math behind tactics doesn't only play a part on how much damage your pet does but also how much damage it takes.( it also lowers the recoil from enemy of one greatly).. so they are far more tanky then a WW and require less heals allowing them to devote more of their mana to damaging attacks... Either way it goes both of these pets shape up to be extremely strong end game pets and are worth fulling specing out..=^-^=
    P.S. bare in mind we are talking about the pre pub 97 3 slot ww here.. cold drakes will damage circles around the current wws that spawn. ^_~
     
    #8 Donavon, Dec 6, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  9. Khaelor

    Khaelor Slightly Crazed
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    (terribly sick so i will make this short for now)

    Currently WW over about 540 str will be 4 slot.
    For a 800 str to be 3 slot, it's a legacy. 800 str is very rare, most legacy are around 730-750 str.
    The greatest damage modifier is raising str. I have the math somewhere.

    As for what is better cold drake or ww, personal preference.
    White wyrms don't have dragon breath, so they wont spend mana on that.
     
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  10. Donavon

    Donavon Sage
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    Oh man , Sorry to hear you are feeling Ill, get some rest and I hope for your speedy recovery (Salutes and bows)
     
  11. Khaelor

    Khaelor Slightly Crazed
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    I'm sorry Donovan, I appreciate a lot of the work you do towards animal testing, however, sometimes you just dont understand/misunderstand the actual mechanics or math in this game.

    Tactics is a pure damage modifier.

    Per UO.COM:
    "Tactics is the most important support skill for all warrior types. It is vital in the use of most weapon’s special abilities and grants a damage bonus. At 100 skill this bonus is 68.75%, while at 120 skill it is 81.25%"

    Per UOGuide:
    Your level of Tactics determines how much of your Base Damage you are capable of inflicting on opponents...This skill also counts towards your ability to perform Special Moves.

    The math:
    Tactics Damage Bonus% = Tactics ÷ 1.6 (Add 6.25% if Tactics >= 100)

    A 125 Drake would have the damage bonus of (125/1.6 = 78.125 + 6.25 = 84.375)
     
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  12. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    Notice how I dont put math in my posts.

    WTH you just say?


    Without the math. I knew my drake was awesome.

    I dont' know why we debate the basics. Strength, Anatomy, and Tactics increase damage.

    Here is the damage formula.

    Total Damage Bonus (Percentage )
    • Tactics Damage Bonus + Anatomy Damage Bonus + Strength Damage Bonus + SUM(Damage Increase Items)

    Damage Calculations - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia

    They also help in Defense. Whether math wise or by beating the life out of the target faster.

    Thats why I use scrolls. That 126 tactics makes that pet worth 40M.
     
  13. Khaelor

    Khaelor Slightly Crazed
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    You dont need to know the math to know a pet is awesome, I agree, but the math and mechanics helps in knowing what plays what roll in the damage or defense. What is worth what and where to make sacrifices. But that all comes down to min/maxing, and let's face it, you dont need to min/max to have a fantastic pet.

    However, several members of my guild are very analytical. One was a former game/software tester and one was a competitive raider (top 6 in the world) in WoW for years. So some members of our guild are very into actual mechanics, running numbers and testing and testing again. But we also have our sentimental and just because pets.

    Giving out inaccurate information about mechanics though does not help people trying to understand taming or training, but we also understand people don't necessarily need that info to be successful.
     
  14. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    Then someone should make a thread that tell exactly what each stat does on a pet.

    I was just searching around and some info was player based and some wild monster based. Does a tamed pet act as a player or a wild mob. Some of the calculations are different for player or Mob.

    What does each of the pet skills do for offense and defense? How do you incorporate bashing the heck out a target that was mid swing?

    Would be nice if a thread explained all of these:

    Wrestling

    Tactics

    Anatomy

    Stamina

    Dexterity

    Strength ETC

    I would do it but I am mathematically and mechanically ill equipped.

    Then I could tell others why my pets are such badasses.

    I already know they are.
     
  15. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Grand Inquisitor

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    Updated information: It IS a pre-pub pet! Darn the luck. LOL Thanks for all the responses.
     
  16. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    Those >700 pre publish Wyrms look really sweet. Theres a lot of them around also.
     
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  17. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Grand Inquisitor

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    Nice, maybe I can find one to buy. I would like to see what an over capped strength white wyrm could do. :)
     
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  18. Swordsman

    Swordsman Seasoned Veteran
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    Donavon’s statement will be correct if the ”tactics“ are replaced by ”wrestling”. I mistyped a lot of sentences when I was waiting for my breakfast.
     
  19. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Grand Inquisitor

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    If anybody has one to sell PM or ICQ me. I'll pay some gold for one to test it out and take a chance :)

    My ICQ is 676858841. Thanks.
     
  20. Khaelor

    Khaelor Slightly Crazed
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    If you want to test some out, I have about five Untrained ones I can send over to test center, but those range 730-750 str
     
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  21. Donavon

    Donavon Sage
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    Note that Uo.com is not fully up to date when it comes to pet skills and the new things , The pure damage increase of tactics is very much so a constant, but get a pet with all GM skills, fix its resistances, and feed it a 110-115 tactics PS.. watch the damage it takes.. note the steady melee damage its taking, then at 110-115 see if its not taking 1-3 less damage per hit just from lvling its tactics.. there is more then a fair share of sub math that no one will post on the forums of skills doing more on pets then they do on players..though most of the skill math you will find often is based more on player using the skill then pets.. while most is pretty spot on..on pets there are often tie ins and links on how they all work together for balancing reason.. Its always good to question every system and changes.. and there is a good chance I and others are mistaken on some of our works.. but just saying from my work with early tactics on pets the extra damage and noted damage reduction was just something that was noticed.. Just as Wrest works as HCI for pets but also give them a chance to dodge.. you will find no math showing the % of how often they dodge but it happens..
     
  22. Donavon

    Donavon Sage
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    I wish to make a correction to my last post.. Uo.com is one of the most up to date gatherings of Info Ive come across.. and I have great respect for those that maintain it and add to it.. what I meant to say is this.. many skills that work on players have added tie in procs, effects, and other bonus items (on pets), that while us testers will hint at and tell people semi about.. often will not post our math on.. as we fear nerfs, or other balances that could ruins already made pets... So thats merely what I meant... I know many of you(The higher lvl testers) are busy helping with the math of the new world of Warcraft raid for the mythic race.. but if you will message me... It might be time we fully release our findings. =^-^=
    P.S. just a small side note.. I would like to thank The people on this site, uo.com and the testers for all their hard work.. You all save pets, time , and promote understanding in a world with lil info is offered... You are all Grand and I hold all of you in the highest regaurd.
     
    #22 Donavon, Dec 7, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  23. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    The highest I've seen was 749. So, you should grab one that was offered on TC. Try one before you buy one.

    Im not hyped on the str. When you see the str on a dragon wolf and then see how little damage they do... But that is a different type pet.
     
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  24. Lug

    Lug Lore Master
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    Your analysis is correct STR is KING for damage output on pets. This is why pre-patch dragons and WW's with HIGH STR (over 800+) are selling for plats on atlantic. The damage output can't be matched by normal spawning tamables.
     
  25. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Grand Inquisitor

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    Right, but I don't think you can put AI and chiv on the dragon wolf. I would rather spend the gold buying one, as opposed to spending time to "test". Dumb I know. :) LOL
     
  26. Khaelor

    Khaelor Slightly Crazed
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    I've been buying ww/3 slot dragons on atl and many other shards since early summer and have yet to see one go for plats. Unless this is a new thing someone with way too much money did. And the three slot dragons still have the reverting problem.
     
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  27. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    None have been in demand on LS. The in demand pets sell for 50M max. (Bane Dragon is one)

    @ OP

    You just have to find a returning player and make an offer. If someone is selling any pet for a platinum that is not a Blaze Cu, I guarantee the buyer has too much gold.

    Other than the Blaze Cu. Any legit pet is not worth more than the scrolls value that are on it.
     
  28. SwordofExcalibur

    SwordofExcalibur Adventurer
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    About two weeks ago, I saw a Bane for sale in Maginicia for 150mil on someone's stall at the very end of the northern stalls.

    That is the only time I have seen a pet have a high sale value, but I don't frequent stalls on the daily.

    I tired farming a white Cu for that week and had no luck so I bought one for 25 mil, a bit pricey maybe, but it's nice and strong and I have been very happy with it lately. Saw some for 5 mil also, but were 4 slots, previously trained.

    So, I concur with pet overpricing.

    I had been shopping dragons and noticed there are a ton of Frost Dragons for sale and stat wise run the gamut.
     
  29. Lug

    Lug Lore Master
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    *Steps to the microphone and clears throat*

    After careful thought, I understand that my word choice was extremely degrading and disrespectful to dragon traders and pet merchants. And to be honest, that was not my intentions. And if you are a person who took offense to what I said, I sincerely apologize to you. I'm a man who tries to be a positive role model to my community and tries to use my platform to inspire others. I take ownership to everything that comes with that. And what I did was extremely unacceptable. I'm a owner of two beautiful reptalons. And at their age, I try to instill in them that they can do and be anything that they want to be. And the fact that during this whole process, I've already lost sponsors and countless fans. I realize that the joke is really on me. And I've learned a valuable lesson from this. And to the young people who see this, I hope that you learn something from this as well. Don't be like me. Be better than me. And to the tamers to the merchants don't drink jack and coke and post on stractics. Thank you Lug.
     
  30. celticus

    celticus Certifiable

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    I think that 25 M for a 3 slot pure white Cu is not overpriced. The amount of time it takes to spawn and tame one is daunting, like several weeks at it and IF you get one. Should be really 50 M or more, as it is extremey rare to spawn. The next more rare Cu is the Paragon gold color, and that is selling for 500 M to 1 plat. In short you did not overpay. The other white ones are gimped and rejects by their owners and worthless unless they were made right.
    Frost Dragons are great, You can get one with potential to train Wres/Tact/Parry to 120 or close to 120, and a good pet if you get resists just about right. They are also massively underpriced most of the time, though you cannot add specials or modify resists, good pets if you dont want to blow away 200M for powerscrolls...
     
  31. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    WOOHOO Cam Newton plays UO!!!
     
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  32. Lug

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