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Related to the PvP thread on Dragons, but with a new and different spin...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by imported_MoonglowMerchant, Feb 15, 2008.

  1. I agree with the original poster in the other thread that tamers and their pets are overpowered on Siege.

    I think they are equally overpowered on other shards, however, for a variety of reasons they are not generally employed.

    This problem is Siege specific.

    When I started on Siege, we had multiple ways to defend ourselves against pets. There was a time when faction monster ignore caused players to be invulnerable to pets unless the player flagged the pet itself. Invoking the honor virtue also protected players against pets but for a shorter duration. There was actually a time when you could use the Paladin spell dispel evil on pets, though that was short lived.

    In short, there were ways to protect yourself.

    Mr Tact changed all that. He made it so that monster ignore did not work against pets. As a consequence, Honor also became ineffective. At the time that those changes were made, the necro potions were introduced. There was supposed to be one called "mask of death". That potion was designed to work as a temporary shield against monsters/pets, but it never made it onto any shard.

    To summarize, the protections against pets were removed and no substitute was provided.

    While protections against pets were removed, there was no corresponding reduction in the offensive abilities of pets. In fact, they got much, much stronger. Pet bonding was introduced and pets became more effective through training. The SE pets had special abilities like bleed, poisioning, and dismount. Their AI allowed them to stack spells and cast at distances that players could not match. Later changes included the ability to call pets or send them to the stables simply by logging out.

    The trend of improving pets and making taming easier continues with the introduction of these new dragons.

    It is not a new problem, it is simply an exacerbation of an issue that has been present on Siege for years.

    There are a number of ways to correct this imbalance. Some have suggested timers on petballs, others have suggested changes to hiding and stealth, some have suggested that dismount be removed or altered, and then there are those who think the pets are just too strong.

    I will leave the ultimate solution to these issues up to the developers. I only ask that you do something, and soon.
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Very well put.
    I am still awaiting a DEVs response about how hard would it be to implement a change to barding difficulty upon taming.
    A 50% loss would be great. I also don't like the auto log feature the way it is, if you log off your pet should remain in the stables when you reconnect.
  3. Nerf-Herder

    Nerf-Herder Guest

    Your post is rational and thoughtful. This kind of nonsense is not tolerated in UHall.

    Flame someone, please.
  4. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    May 31, 2004
    Likes Received:
    You say no substitute has been provided, hmmm, lemme check this out.

    Pets used to be alot, and i mean ALOT, stronger.--Pets were made much weaker.

    Pets used to loot corpses (wyrm specific).--No longer do that.

    Pets used to be able to cast mass curse, which of course could turn bad for the tamer.--No longer do that.

    Tamers used to never have a limit on how many tames they were able to bring out into the field (of course this was before pet bonding).--Now we're limited to one dragon.

    Tamers never had a maximum # of pets to keep in the stables.--Now it depends on how much skill points you have in taming, lore, and vet.

    Stealth tamers used to be able to heal pets while invis'd or stealthing.--No longer possible to do that.

    Not completely sure on this one, but pets used to be able to dispel EV's.--Now they don't.

    Taming is by far the hardest (as in most time consuming) skill to raise inorder to be effective at controlling high-end pets.

    I'm sorry, but when didn't they make a substitute again?
  5. I disagree with your post.

    I am tired of all this nerfing.

    As far as siege is concerned; 2% pf the population shouldn't dictate what the other 98% does,period.

    ps, there is no such thing as perfect balance in this game or in real life.
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I would also like to point out that barding a pet needs to be considered an aggresive act and will flag the person on you.
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    there are so many things that seem like common sense to me that seem to be such a strain for some people to get.

    discording a pet IS an aggressive act, why doesn't it flag?
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    FYI. You can still heal pets, or anything else when hidden, by using a
    GH Wand. Not that effective, but doable.
  9. <blockquote><hr>

    Your post is rational and thoughtful. This kind of nonsense is not tolerated in UHall.

    Flame someone, please.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You have no friends, nobody likes you, and you suck at PvP!!!!

    Feel better? [​IMG]

    The devs seriously need to start considering all of these broken issues in game *before* adding new features. There have been several threads on the "PvP tamer" issue over the past month or so, and what do we get? MORE POWERFUL DRAGONS!

    I don't know about you, seems to me that EA is spitting in our faces.
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    OK just went to test and tried to bard a tamed pet.
    I get the [censored] message you can't do that.
    DEVs you seriously dropped the ball on this one. If I can't do it in Trammyland then it MUST be an agresive act in fell/ on siege.
  11. Seems like monster ignore was use more to go out hunting taimers who were made defenceless.
  12. <blockquote><hr>

    Seems like monster ignore was use more to go out hunting taimers who were made defenceless.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I remember that argument being made by tamers at the time Mr. Tact made the change.

    I also remember at that time making the argument that tamers didn't need to be the best PvM template and the best PvP template. Unfortunately, on Siege they are.

    Perhaps re-instating monster ignore is not the best solution. However, the problem needs to be addressed.
  13. Rand Al Thor

    Rand Al Thor Guest

    I've been pretty saying this for years. They put content in the game with no regard to how it will affect Fel rule set, then they attempt to fix the problem with a big nerf. Which does little but add more problems. The answer is never a nerf, but to balance the world we have, then add content, but test it before it goes live. Tamers used to rule along time ago as other used have said, but they back then the balance for tamers was Pk's/Reds. Most players today start out in Tram, then get bored with PvM and want more, so they try out Fel. But PvP and PvM are a very differeant game. I think if EA would focus more on Fel, UO would be a much better game. They have made life way to easy for Reds and almost impossible for Blue Honor guilds. Most if not all of the old Honor guilds are gone, erased over time by all the inbalances. Every player class should have checks and balances when it comes to PvP. But with class Hybirds and insurance Fel and PvP causes more problems than it solves. Who wants to spend hours of mindless PvM so they can compete in PvP.....
  14. Nixon[I-C]

    Nixon[I-C] Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Feb 14, 2003
    Likes Received:
    You want to know the real problem with tamers?

    It's not the pet's.

    It's the items.

    I can gear a tamer pvp char with about 800 skill, completely negating this supposed weak template. I can do it on any char, and in fact, do play an overpowered char. The difference between that char, and a tamer char, is I'm reliant entirely on my own ability. You can give the worst pvper in the world the best items, and he'll still be medicore. Very few people have seen the true power of a tamer char, because there is very few genuinely good pvpers left.

    Playing a taming char in PvP does require an element of skill regardless of what anyone says. I can't comment on the siege issue really, as I don't have enough knowledge of their situation, but based simply on what I know of the shard, I'd say it is already overpowered there because Siege relies on items more than any other shard. A pvp tamer there has virtually the same attack power as a production shard, yet your average mage pvper is a far weaker target. Now if anyone can't see the unbalance there, they are kidding themselves.

    Any pvp tamer worth anything in pvp, will have you on your feet almost instantly. Any pvper worth anything, will have that dragon damaged as soon as possible. However, I challenge any of you, to try and kill a pet, on foot against a tamer that has an ounce of skill, and knows how to properly play a mage (or archer). The problem goes beyond ninja tamers - it's simply gives you greater surviablity, but less firepower. Any mage that knows how to cycle in the game, will laugh as a pvp tamer.

    Thanks to the +skill items, bola items, special system, pet balls, tamers have been made 'gimp'. Other skills have their issues, but thats for a different a day, taming has needed adjusting for a long time, it's only now that because of these apparant super dragons people are taking a bit more notice.

    If you want to balance the issue, address the problems without nerfing the skill. PvP tamers should be a viable template - as much as I think they are boring/lame to fight, but the problem lies with instant 'All Kill', ninja form, and +skill items.
  15. *bow* thank you sir.

    except for the line where you say siege relies on items but I think you ment something other than how I took it.
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think it was a refrence to no insurance=no uber gear. We Siegers have to put allot more effort into the gear we use.
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest


    Gogo magic pet ball!
  18. love my guildys, truely
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think everyone is blowing these new dragons out of proportion.

    I would rather have someone stick one of these new drags on me than the current set up (Mare and a rune beetle). At least you can outrun these new dragons by walking away. Rune Beetles skip to you every step it seems.

    I do agree though, that the archer/tamers need to be nerfed. It's that dismount that is a pain in the butt.

    With that being said, I'm going to go pvp on my archer tamer for a bit.
  20. <font color=blue><blockquote><hr>

    I disagree with your post.

    I am tired of all this nerfing.

    As far as siege is concerned; 2% pf the population shouldn't dictate what the other 98% does,period.

    ps, there is no such thing as perfect balance in this game or in real life.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    </font color=blue>

    Well if the Devs actually PvPed, or thought even 2% of the time about how new content would affect PvP they wouldnt have to be nerfing things.

    Instead they listen to Trammel Shards that only complain we need more, bigger stronger, more power, more items, nothing is enough, and nothing ever will be.

    Thats why the majority of Siege Players play Siege, and why he addressed this as more of a Siege problem, not a Trammel Problem.

    We dont want to dictate anything to Trammel, Siege has no Trammel, we want the Devs to actually think about how things will affect PvP in Felucia and for maybe once have something go Live so that it works in Trammel like they want and is Adjusted for us Felucia People also.

    We arnt asking for Perfect Balance, Just some freakin Common Sence....
  21. "Lynk- I do agree though, that the archer/tamers need to be nerfed. It's that dismount that is a pain in the butt.

    With that being said, I'm going to go pvp on my archer tamer for a bit."

    <font color=blue> Dismount wouldnt be so bad if they would remove the 'dismount move" from the Heavy Crossbow and replace it with "Force Arrow" , Melee and Bola Dismounters are alot more vulnerable to attack, and have a harder time executing the dismount.</font color=blue>