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Should completley get rid of player looting

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Velvathos, Jan 26, 2009.

  1. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
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    Explain this to me... Why do I have a desire to PvP in other games, but NOT UO???
     
  2. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    If you don't PvP in UO, why do you care about player looting? lol
     
  3. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    Explain to me why I should care if you have a desire to PvP in UO or not.

    You've made it quite clear you think the PvP Apocalypse is having to restock 500gp worth of junk.:spider:

    If you don't like the 5 minutes to restock pots, bandaids, and other disposable PvP equipment, then you fit in with maybe 1% of the people who don't want to PvP.

    The majority of people who don't like to PvP fit into the same categories that have been thrown at your MULTIPLE times in this post:
    • Player attitude - nothing says love like "You suxors" after a 10 man gank. I can't blame people for not wanting to PvP in such an environment. This is why I don't "PvP" at Yew gate.
    • Player ability - if you can't PvP and have no ability to learn how to PvP, I can't blame a guy for not wanting to PvP.
    • Player desire - Some people are just peace loving PvM studs. I can't begrudge them that.
    • Cheats, hacks, exploits, etc - blame EA on allowing these to be available.

    You remind me of the guy who worried about a little rust on the Titanic's railing and not the huge gaping hole in the side while it is sinking:hahaha:
     
  4. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    TBH, His idea on requiring stealing to loot has merit too.

    I am a trammelized fellucan carebear. I have been pk'd and looted too many times to count prior and after moving to Tram. I am also as the above poster calls it - a peace loving PvM stud.

    And I have to say no as well. This is in effect, nerfing a portion of the playstyle. Besides the bullies that specifically goes after obviously defenseless miners/lumberjacks, it also affects everyone else, guild wars, champ spawns, factioneers etc.

    If the objective is to encourage PvP with sanitized combat, I believe adding an arena system would serve the purpose better. Leave looting in Fel as it is. Players can enroll and compete in weekly matches in Jhelom. Champions will receive say 50 of the rarest imbuing ingredients or some other unique artifact.

    Both facets have their own matches. Full looting in Fel, no looting in Tram.

    Yeah, I know the idea already exists in some form in other games and we'll be copying, but hey, they copied lots of stuff from UO too :D

    All's fair in love (of games) and war (between game companies).
     
  5. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    No. Just No. If you can't figure out why, then there is simply no hope for you. Quit and go play some one person game.
     
  6. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Poobah
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    And that´s a good thing?

    Death should affect you. That´s why I like Siege...
     
  7. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    This post gave me a great idea.

    Deactivate insurance in Fel. And/or allow insured items to be looted while your corpse lays there until you retrieve it. Either one or both.

    Couple of effects I see:

    1) People absolutely won't PvP in "top gear." They will return to relatively basic, easily replaceable gear-- even store bought stuff.

    2) Because of #1, more people can easily get into PvP casually without needing to specifically build a character only for PvP, with gear only suited for PvP, with skills only suited for PvP.

    3) Rico is finally going to be so happy and moist in the pantaloons that he will forget to log onto stratics and post ridiculous, trollish game "fixes"... for THREE WHOLE DAYS. Or at least too busy looting corpses.

    On somewhat unrelated note, agreed completely with Geller about the reasons most people stay out of PvP. There are a lot of people quite happy without it, but who "would be interested in trying it", except for both the horror stories about Fel players and their own first hand experiences there. Player attitude is the single biggest issue.... I think hacking would probably come in 2nd but is a largely obscured issue outside of the usually relatively small PvP crowds. If more people PvP'd more people would know about it and care about it. On my shard one guild pretty much controls Fel for all intents and purposes. You linger in any town for long enough and 8-10 of them will show up-- most of them blue of course--- along with some red stealthers. (They're all so brave 10 on 1'ing you, and happy to crap talk or lol through it like they accomplished something to brag about.)

    The options on my shard seem to be.... join this guild.... get "friendly" with this guild so that you aren't immediately killed (without warning or provocation) when spotted in Fel, or be killed by this guild. That isn't PvP... more like a monopoly on powerscrolls established and maintained by brute force.

    As far as the "idealness" many people preach about an open ruleset, players determine everything PvP model in online games.... and UO's is still pretty open, at least in Fel, compared to almost every other game... it just results in the worst examples of the online community banding together into a huge mob that there aren't enough pvp-capable, pvp-willing friendlies to band together and stop. Even if you did it one night, they're back and rezzed and ready to gank you the next night, and the next, and the next, and the next. There is no real competition. Just gankage. If this is ideal PvP, then you have your answer really why I don't like it.. and why a lot of other players don't.

    I fail to see the point of "PvP" when it amounts to joining one huge zerg guild and staring at moongates waiting for unguilded people to come through.... or hunting for miners.
     
  8. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Cool, I am glad that my post is helpful to someone :D

    Yeah, I agree the zerg/gankage part may be a problem. Levelling the playing field and getting people to use items they can afford to lose is a great idea, but I am afraid that simply turning insurance off in Fel will have negative effects. Let me explain:

    1 - Invasion of the naked tamers
    When I played Seige several years ago, the first thing I decided was that I will use a tamer. The reason is simple, I have no reliance on items, regs, weapons or suits. I didn't even bring bandages.

    I'll run around the forests naked and look for animals to train. Even if I get pk'd, I don't lose anything. At low levels, I hunted with a pack of timber wolves. Then progressed to black bears, brown bears, polar bears, grizzlies as I gained skill. Since you need stamina to push through, having 5 grizzlies defending me will slow down any pks quite a bit and if the pk don't know how to deal with it, he's bear food. These were the days before pet bonding.

    Apparently, on Seige nowadays, this seems to have caught on. Esp now that there are GDs and pet bonding.

    So if we do away with insurance, there's a high chance that Fel will be over-run with tamers that "MvP" (monsters versus players) with their pets...

    2 - Blessed items workaround
    Siege has a Seige bless deed and no more blessed items. However, that's not true for prodo shards. Older players have a personal bless deed, certain items of clothing can be clothing blessed, some have item bless deeds from the origin Brit cleanup (these are alot rarer), some armour/weapons are blessed.

    eg
    1) Full Virtue sets with all 70 resists
    2) CBD'd hat with lrc 20, mr 2 plus a bit of resists, PBD'd Armour of Fortune (lrc 20), 16 LRC spellbook, LT's Sash (lrc 10, but I'm not sure if it can be CBD'd), Leggings of Ember, plus items some cheap items to make up the rest of the 14 lrc or maybe just some arcane clothing
    3) Then there's also the faction items that can be replaced much more readily

    Weapons - Shamino's xbow, quiver of infinity

    So it's possible that all we'll see in Fel are Archer/Mage/Necro/Tamer MvP'rs in blessed suits overpowering other templates.

    And that's just suits and templates. There are also really cheap tactics that can be used in conjunction.

    If we do away with blessed items in addition to insurance, we'll have another problem with blessed items like spellbooks dropping.

    All aspiring PvP'rs would likely be turned off rather quickly.

    Not trying to throw a wet blanket on your idea or anything, I totally agree that levelling the playing field so that no one would use uber equipment they can't afford to loose is a very good idea.

    It is just my opinion that Fel and insurance should be left as it is until we can come up with a better solution. I still think an arena system would serve well to entice non pvp'rs to try out this aspect of UO.

    :)
     
  9. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Ok i couldnt even be bothered to read the arguments

    Worst idea EVER!!!

    What risk is losing pots, bandies or apples...in other words consumables!?!

    If your stupid enough to go anywhere (even PvM) without insurance then you deserve to lose everything...this isnt going to help PvP AT ALL!!!
     
  10. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    Harlequin, what you have just described is almost Siege:D Well, minus RoT and with only one Fel facet:D

    What seems to have happened on Siege with regard to equipment is a friendly sell equipment back agreement. Seems to work for the most part. Rude players seem to get nailed with the "stupid" tax:scholar::lick: As for templates, tamers don't seem to be any more prolific than on production shards.

    Duskofdead, with zerg guilds, you do have a couple extra options:
    • Form your own zerg
    • Off peak hour and remote location spawning

    *edit - added from here on*
    As for equipment, having the top l33t equipment is almost not an issue. There are too many ways to get to cap and for the most part all 60s+ is sufficient.

    It isn't like the VERY old days where if you didn't run HoM, Orni, Staff of Magi(or Arcane), midnight bracers, etc you were at a HUGE disadvantage to the 4/6 heavy SDI PvPers.:hahaha: Those days sucked to be on a receiving end:scholar:

    Actual player skill plays a larger roll nowdays in non-zerg situations over actual equipment.
     
  11. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Heh, nice to see the players coming up with an nice way to get stuff back. Haven't played Siege for a while, last time the wife was there, some naked bloke fired a DP'd shuriken at her in the inn. The griefer got himself guardwhacked in the process, but the missus didn't have regs on her and couldn't get to her bank quick enough. Since that nice welcome, neither of us has an urge to log on to Siege.
     
  12. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    up up down down left right left right b a start
     
  13. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Harlequin

    Was that at Umbra??

    Couple of days ago??
     
  14. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    It was not me!
     
  15. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    If it was in umbra at the inn (was a fukiya dart btw) then it was me...

    Im trying to build a LRC suit but ill return the pieces i looted (next time carry something i can steal instead :p)
     
  16. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    AHA!

    Nah, it was a couple of years back and it was a shuriken.

    But I am keeping my eye on you and Kelmo!:spider:
     
  17. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    No one would have a problem if you all carry donations :p
     
  18. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    :) ...la
     
  19. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    A B B A C A B start
     
  20. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Hah, I'm keeping an eye on you too!
     
  21. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Don't mind me. I'm working taming up on my thief right now. You will see all of my released pets running around with the name "la"...la
     
  22. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    LOL, I remember training taming on Siege. Once, this red ran up and killed me, coz some other guy released his pets and they kept aggroing him heh.

    Was dead before I could type "It wasn't me, I kill all my tames"
     
  23. Ghost71

    Ghost71 Guest

    No! Get rid of player backpacks, bank boxes, houses, ANY kinda storage where items etc.. well heck get rid of all items! We'll just have fist fights and nobody will risk loosing anything ever again!
     
  24. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    That's why I release them. So they do attack the reds. :)

    It's funny when I tame all the cats in Skara, then release them near the bank...then hide and watch as my pack of ravenous felines attacks the first red that walks up to use the bank...la
     
  25. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Shudders at the thought when you can tame kirins... :D
     
  26. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    I see your bet and raise you a pair of arms and both legs! Gives a whole new meaning to "bite me" heh
     
  27. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Haha, that will take forever. I have taming into the 30s now...but spend too much time stealing to bother with training. Besides, once I hit RoT at 70, it will still be a long time before I can do that. The reds are safe for now...la
     
  28. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Once you hit RoT, you can take your taming to 110 in a week or 2.

    RoT is the best skill gain system ever!!!

    Wish they would add it to every shard and get rid of the GGS system.
     
  29. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    I don't play enough to get my full RoT gains every day, so it will take me longer. And I've never been one to log in every 15 minutes to get a gain. I always tire of training taming so I am lucky if I get 4 or 5 gains a day, lol...la
     
  30. accessdenied

    accessdenied Guest

    I could see maybe until you recieved a certain amount of kills then it would negate?? That would give them "X" amount of kills in felucca and after that point they should know whether or not they'd like it, but as far as permanently not being able to be looted.... no never ever ever ever!!
     
  31. Raider Red

    Raider Red Seasoned Veteran
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    except for a few teeth!!!:gee:
     
  32. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Grand Poobah
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    Wow, some of you guys are so Hardcore, the rest of us can barely stand to be in your presence...Wow, I'm just wowed by how totally cool you actually think you are..