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Siege PBD design doc posted to Dev Corner

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Guest, Aug 22, 2005.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Havent read it yet, this should prove to be interesting...

    Perhaps *you'll* be the redhot!
  2. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    As they say where Im from (KY)

    Get 'er done!!


    I suppose I can stop learning voodoo now. ...just when I was getting close to being able to craft my own little MrTact doll too.. *snaps fingers*

    OOO! What a good skill for the next expansion. Orcs on the Bayou, new skill: Voodoo! Would give a new meaning to Mojoka... har!
  3. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    Hail neighbor!
  4. Shank Mastas

    Shank Mastas Guest

    Well I hope it is shortly.... I will be counting the days off myself.
  5. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    Fellow redneck?!
  6. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Mar 13, 2004
    Likes Received:
  7. Tark_Smash

    Tark_Smash Guest

    Nice, I think it would be much better to get a menu and a cursor to bless an Item, sort of like insurance. Should get rid of the possiblity of losing the bless foever. Looks good.
  8. Rykus

    Rykus Guest


    im lovin' it

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Are you affiliated with McDonalds? They may resent you using their slogan.. [​IMG]
  9. Ghaz'gull

    Ghaz'gull Guest

    MY question is WHEN!!!! Give us a bone here! [​IMG]
  10. Sommerset

    Sommerset Guest

    Great, yet another nerf for thieves. But who the [censored] cares

    Thank you for nerfing thieves 30 skill point. It is not like we have an easy template as it is now, and with the detect and elf changes we will need even more skills in ninja.

    Allowing 7AE items to remain blessed once again shows EAs lack on interest in thieves. There was no (BLESSED) 7AE item for thieves and because of the tight template we are unable to use the royals and the leggings. No thief artifact was introduced with SE / ML.

    A lot of items that would otherwise be stealable remain blessed. BODs, Comodity deeds, golden skulls etc ect. These items are not worth as much as an ils arti - hence no reason for them to be blessed per se.

    BoS' are lootable but not stealable. Yet another sign of EAs nerfing of thieves with imbalances not in our favour.

    I could countinue with the list, but why dont you visit the thief forum instead? Or what is left of it - it used to be one of the most active forums, now it gets 2-3 posts a day.
  11. Tophoo

    Tophoo Guest

    Damn Sommerset,

    Take it easy. Bless your damn bandana with your pbd.

    And take a chill!
  12. Sommerset

    Sommerset Guest

    That is on my shadow dancers - while everyone else is running around with blessed Royal Leggings and their PBD on something else. Hell people might even wear blessed Royal Leggings, blessed Samurai helmet and their PBD on something else. NOW THAT IS [censored] BALANCING, WONT HURT THIEVES A BIT.

    With the new changes to stealth you'd have to have ninja at a level where you can use shadow jump with sufficient degree of succes, if you want the sligtes change of survial, whereas now you can have it at 50 for smoke boom. So not only are they nerfing us 30 skill, points, they are also making our template even thighter. CHEERS

    As there is only 10 skill points between the shadow dancers and the burglars bandana EA is in effect degrading the shadow dancers to a minor artifact. BUT HELL IT DOESNT MATTER COZ WE DIDNT GET ANY ARTIFACTS WITH THE SE OR THE ML OR THE 7AE.

  13. wavace

    wavace Guest

    Oh look here we go again getting our hopes up ! Havent they told us things like this before?
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    This looks like the fist time that a well thought over design plan has been presented to the community. And as far as I am concerned it is a good plan. I too will have to make some adjustments, my chars all wear a blessed bear hat, I will have to put my PBDs on those and leave my cold blood cleaver at home, but it is well worth it.

    As for the thief: there are no blessed items for crafters either. We too will have to use our PBD on our most valuable item and risk the rest.

    Kind regards
  15. Sommerset

    Sommerset Guest

    'Right, so all the times I have seen a blessed CBD i a backpack i could have stolen it, right? [censored] ironic that EA takes away the ability to bless the burglars bandana but wont let us steal the deed.

    and BODs are not really blessed are they?

    how about commodity deeds? They are not worth half the price of a burglars bandana but they are [censored] blessed = unstealable

    I am not evening going to complain about the thieves disguise kit not being blessed while house placement or deco tools are, coz the disguise kit has been bugged from day one

    What about tlamers? Bonded (blessed pets), blessed lucky necklace, blessed golden skulls.........................................................

    What about BoS? Well they arent blessed, but hell we cant steal them !!!!!!

    This publish sux ass when it comesa to thieves

    So in a sence it makes perfect sense to compare a thief (pvp character) to a crafter- doesnt it !
  16. Maginot

    Maginot Guest

    I agree somewhat with Sommerset re thieves getting nerfed. I would sure like to see more thieves lurking about the banks. Used to be a time when you HAD to hide (or at least it was very risky not to) when banking. Seems like I haven't seen a thieve in ages. Make more stuff stealable.
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I can see that the thief template is nerfed, but I don't agree that that is a reason to keep the burglars bandana blessed. It is an artie hat like any other artie hat and the same problems exist with the blessing of it. If you want to keep it (the bandana), PBD it (in the future).

    The other thief nerfs should be handled as what they are: bugs and imbalances. No reason to fix those by letting all hats keep their blessing.

    BTW, I agree that commodity deeds should be stealable, they were intended to solve the problem of trading with stuff that is too heavy to trade, not to make the goods blessed.

    BODs are strictly speaking an order which an NPC places with a crafter, in that sense it might from a rp viewpoint not make much sense to make those stealable, although I would not object to it.

    I do most my shopping invisible. Like I have pointed out in another thread, and also from a rp viewpoint, in my opinion, the moment you buy something, that should reveal you.

    So I am all for making the thief template a more playable one, just not by keeping CBDs on all artie hats.

    Kind regards
  18. Sommerset

    Sommerset Guest

    Right, and then you can wear a blessed high stat samurai helmet with 15% DCI on your head AND use you PBD on another uber artifact. Thats [censored] brilliant!

    Not at least for the few disarm thieves that are left !!
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You can wear the blessed sammie hat too. It is as useless to me as it is to you.

    Kind regards
  20. MeMn0cH

    MeMn0cH Guest


    Right, and then you can wear a blessed high stat samurai helmet with 15% DCI on your head AND use you PBD on another uber artifact. Thats [censored] brilliant!

    Not at least for the few disarm thieves that are left !!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I only know of 2 thieves that are dismount thieves..

    Timothy and Star Jamison... and Star Jamison doesnt count cause he isnt good..
  21. Sommerset

    Sommerset Guest

    No I cant [censored] wear the bloody samurai helmet as EA are making it impossible to have useable thief template with the 720 skill limit. The recent stealth nerf didnt exactly make this any better!

    What even more funny is that if you want to use the only two thief arties that are left in the game - the Shadow Dancers now degraded to a minor artifact with only 10 skill points difference to the buglars bandana, the latter being significantly easier to obtain - you will be unable to use the blessed 7AE items.

    Bloody brilliant mate !
  22. Out of curiosity, what is your idea of a "usable" thief template?

  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    So you want 30 points more than anyone else, because you're a thief.

  24. Sommerset

    Sommerset Guest

    I want the 7AE items unblessed and preferably completely removed from the game. They are unbalancing the game as some classes can wear them and the artifact most appropriate for their class, other classes cant. OR if not removed then at least remidy the damage by allowing hats to be blessed by the CBD.

    The thief template requires a lot of skill - thats the main property of the thief artifacts. Other templates require different things fx. SDI, DI, FC, luck etc etc. The changes to stealth make the thief template even thighter as shadow jump and high level ninja is now required, whereas 50 skill point smoke bomb was good enough.

    Difference is that while you can go out there and use your pbd on the inq. gloves or the blade AND use the BLESSED and relatively easy obtainable high end stat samurai helmet / royal leggings - thieves cannot use any of their two (2!) artifacts and the 7AE gifts

    EA has never given a goddam [censored] about thieves and the majority here does not either
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Why cant a thief wear the 7AE stuff? I might be missing something, but I dont see why they cant wear them?
  26. Because they lose the points from the two major thief artifacts, which are headgear and leggings.

    Cry me a river, is basically my opinion of that particular problem...

  27. Sommerset

    Sommerset Guest

    "Difference is that while you can go out there and use your pbd on the inq. gloves or the blade AND use the BLESSED and relatively easy obtainable high end stat samurai helmet / royal leggings - thieves cannot use any of their two (2!) artifacts and the 7AE gifts"

    Thief artifacts:
    1) Shadow Dancer LEGGINGS
    2) Buglars BANDANA

    7AE BLESSED items:
    1) Samurai HELMET
    2) Roayl LEGGINGS

    Try wearing those 4 at the same time !
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm way sleepy so I needed you to draw me a picture. LOL Sorry.

    I'm not happy that I wont be able to PBD my good weapon and still have my Dread Pirate Hat. =/
  29. if you were an ettin, you could wear both the bandanna and the sammy helm...
  30. Shad-SP

    Shad-SP Guest

    Replying to last for convenience..........

    Well Im not sure how this got hi-jacked from the PBD discussion to a rant on Thief Nerfs, but let me take a moment to say I am thrilled to see Mr. Tact taking the steps needed to make this happen. I am excited about what it means for me and for all of Siege.
    On the thief issue....sounds like you have some legitimate complaints. But, why dont you take it to a more appropriate thread as opposed to filling up this one with rants............I mean a PBD has been the number one issue on Siege for 2 years and it was agreed/voted on by Siege population, right? Seems to me this thread should focus on crossing fingers, thanking Mr. Tact and everyone begining to think how they would like to use their PBD! [​IMG]
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest


    I say if it ain't got a pbd on it, let it fall to the corpse.

    exceptions of course, vet rewards.

    hell let a scribe craft a full spellbook in one click instead of an empty one and let that fall too.

    Rune books, big deal, i stored my runes in the bank for ages.

    The problem with MrTacts plan is he is not dealing with the whole picture at once. All or non is more than just pbd's it's blessings period.
  32. Sommerset

    Sommerset Guest

    1) EA is taking CBDs into the PBD debat not I

    2) If you want Siege to be playable it is not good enough to fix the PBDs. All blessed (and bonded) items should be looked at as a package. Only way to get Siege balanced.
  33. Shad-SP

    Shad-SP Guest

    Just for clarification:

    My post simply said we should focus on the positives of this issue being addressed. It is something Siege has asked for, it is an improvement for many people on shard, and a step in the right direction, if for no other reason, it shows Siege is getting some development time. I just dont see any since in getting a good thing for many people and then proceeding to complain......seems poor form.

    Regarding what was implied or inferred on other aspects of blessings from my posts, let me clarify my position. I would just assume see all blessings removed from Siege (except the PBD which will be universal). That should help balance for new and old players alike. But before that can happen, PvP needs rebalancing at many levels to account for the changes the lack of blessings will create........hehe, unless we all want to be scribe mages.

    So, the PBD is a good first step and there are many more that need to be taken. But, does it help to complain without acknowledging positive that has been done? Lets stay focused on the other changes we need, but not in a thread carrying news that is welcomed and should be celebrated by many.
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The problem is, while he is adding one balance to the system, he is creating a new unbalance by removing CBD's on hats. That means everyone has to wear the 7AE crap or be killed by SDI mages in seconds. Unless he is going to fix all the PvP issues - then shouldnt he have left well enough alone with the CBD's?
  35. Sommerset

    Sommerset Guest

    Coudnt agree more
  36. Hera - Siege

    Hera - Siege Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Apr 3, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Replying to last for ease.

    When I was a thief, I totally wore Leggings and Sammy Helm. Not exactly sure what your 'usuable' thief template is but I ran just fine with:

    120 Steal
    105 Magery
    100 Resist
    100 Snoop
    100 Hide
    80 Stealth
    50 ninjitsu
    65 Detect

    Don't know what all the fuss is about.

    And if you read the post it was 7AE items stay blessed, FOR NOW.

    I would hope that in the PvP balance sweep that is on the docket, we will see the 7AE items become unblessed in favor of a bit higher resists on GM armor. But I have to say that people are never happy. Yea, we FINALLY get PBD's but no no-one is happy because of some other change. C'mon people, PBD's are the biggest change and the best for Siege in terms of people returning. Heck even *I'M* thinking of returning. . .

    I agree the CBD thing stinks, there are plenty of hats I would have liked to bless, but I'm totally willing to give them up in favor of PBD ability, and the hope that 7AE items will lose the bless in the PvP pass.

    I've ranted long enough. . .
  37. Sommerset

    Sommerset Guest

    1) Giving out PBD does NOT warrant that you cancel CBDs. Furthermore, dealing with CBD in a PBD fix without dealing with the 7AE items at the same time is totally unwarranted.

    2) "Fixing" the CBD and giving us PBDs is just a bone. Dont expect there to be anymore fixes to PvP

    3) They are "fixing" CBDs and the PBD now! Yeah great, I am so [censored] excited. They should fix the +10 thief bugs first, they have been around for longer time.

    4) Your 50 ninja and 80 stealth will be worth [censored] with the new stealth rules

    5) In principle it is WRONG that some classes can use their main artifacts and the blessed 7AE items, and other classes not. If you can live with you character then fine, but it doesnt change the unjustice nor the fact that a lot of thieves consider these changes a major nerf. Jump to the thief forum.
  38. Maginot

    Maginot Guest


    One way to keep CBDs, but decrease their power would be to give these uber hats a relatively low durability so they wear out. I've advocated for lower durability in the crafting discussions to increase commerce for crafters. Seems like a durability under 40 (30?) would cause the item and the CBD to be lost after a relatively short while, depending on how often you go into combat and how closely you watch for the need to repair. Just a thought. I'm sure there is something wrong with this idea and someone will let me know.
  39. Guest

    Guest Guest

    To me it look like most are happy for the changes so give it up. [​IMG]
    It may take a little longer to get rid of the blessing on 7th AE items, people payed for them so they may need to replace them with something else.
  40. Sommerset

    Sommerset Guest

    I am paying 14 euros for my thief account. How much do you pay?

    I want a discount
  41. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I was not thinking of me, I don't care but others will make alot of noice.

    You knew this was a risk, CBD's was never meant to bless arti stuff.

    This is first step to bring Siege back to Perilous.
  42. Guest

    Guest Guest


    Yeah great, I am so [censored] excited.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    so... reading through all that you've posted (I do have Legendary Patience), it boils down to this:
    Everyone else should suffer because your template doesn't work the way that you think it should.

    It may surprise you to know that many a thief exists who does NOT feel the need to use artifacts for a boost.Some don't even need ninjitsu. I'm sure you can find them, it just wouldn't suit your purpose to defeat your own rant, oops, argument.

    The 7AE items have about as much to do with your thief template as a pickaxe has to do with cooking.

    What's wrong with this template (assuming a 700 skill cap):
    60 Detect Hidden
    100 Hiding
    100 Ninjitsu
    100 Resist
    100 Snoop
    120 Stealing
    120 Stealth

    You don't need magery - you've got ninja forms to get around at mount speed, and most thefts take place in/around towns anyway. Taking stealth to 120 gives you the maximum chance of not being tracked. If you don't like that, then put the points back into detect. I'm not a thief, it's just an example, and it, like everything you've posted, is a lot more useful over in the thief forum than in this thread.

    Still, my personal opinion on this is, if you need a blessed bandana to be a thief, then all I can say is, you're not a very good thief. What kind of miner would I be if I needed a blessed beetle to take all my ore to the forge?

    Getting back on track - thank you VERY much, Mr Tact - I can't wait to see the design become code!
  43. CorwinWE

    CorwinWE Guest

    This change makes the shard less perilous, as even more people will have blessed uber weapons and items. Now every farmer can slap that bless on an item the second they get their hands on it. Blessed items never belonged on Siege, but after this change, they will be seen as expected. Nah, this is the death blow for the Perilous part of the shard.

    The good news is that this will make things more fair for new players on the shard. Not perfectly fair of course, there are still 7AE gifts, soulstones, vet rewards, special blessed items, power scrolls, stat scrolls, artifacts, and I don't even know what anymore to give vet players a big advantage over the newbs.
  44. Xergug

    Xergug Guest

    The most simple form of inbalance is a case where one thing is so great *EVERYONE* has to have it to be competitive.
    If the 7AE rewards stay blessed on Siege and CBD go away, then they represent free blessed items, obviously there are cases and people that will not use them, but for the bulk of players there is no question its the best hat available and doesn't require them to use a PBD to keep it safe. Thats even ignoring the fact that not everyone has access to them, or can ever get one if they so chose.

    However, the thief complaint is weak at best and purelly selfish, but happens to be on the correct side of balance. The real issue is that the 7AE rewards are the inbalance, which while CBDs exist the hat at least is balanced.

    Also all this talk that CBD were not meant to bless blah or whatever sounds foolish since they *DO* bless those items. And clearly its a large group of items and couldn't possibly be considered a bug, and I can't see how this would *slip* thru the testing stage without notice.
  45. Slightly off topic...

    Sommerset, stop complaining about CBD's and focus on the real problem. That being Passive Detect.

    As it currently stands that should be your biggest issue. If it is introduced to Siege in it's current design it won't matter if have 100 Hiding, 120 Stealth, and 120 Ninjitsu, you still will be getting revealed anytime you try and get close to someone with even as little as 20 Detect Hidden. It's been tested on TC.

    The funny thing is it won't nerf Stealth Tamers/Archers. It will only work within a 1-2 tile radius. How is that going to fix the problem? Only will hurt Stealth Melee warriors and us thieves. Way to think that one through Mr.Tact.

    As if that wasn't enough they make it so now Area Effect Spells will reveal again too. This I'm not too upset with, but coupled with Passive Detect it's plain stupid.

    Back on topic...

    I currently wear CBD'd Burglar's Bandana and Ember Legs. When this PBD change happens I'll be wearing a PBD Burglar's Bandana and Ember Legs. Believe me when I say this, I could live without the Ember Legs.

    I think 7th Anni PvP related item should be Unblessed too, but you don't here me carrying on about it. We get the point Sommerset, and most of us understand. Cursing at Mr.Tact isn't going to make him listen any closer.

    Think Passive Detect, keep your eye on the ball.
  46. Guest

    Guest Guest

    How do you conclude that a thing which *EVERYONE* has to have causes imbalance? It seems everyone has to have magery skill, everyone has to have resist skill... these things don't cause imbalance, they take time to get them, but they are exactly what causes balance. The same argument goes for the 7AE items. There are enough of them on the shard for everyone to have a set. It takes a while to get enough money (dare I say *shivers* farm) to buy them, but everyone can do it.

    They do cause uglyness though, and that is the reason the blessing on them has to go.

    Kind regards
  47. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    I would like to add to all this optimism that all that has been accomplished is this.

    Some one wrote somthing that looked kinda thought out, they promised to talk about it with other people and think it's pretty important. They hope to make actual plans on it in the future... After they've talked...

  48. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    Oh, I'd also like to add to this that I feal if we are finaly loosing CBDs then the 7AE items need to go aswell. If the issue is getting rid of a bless slot why leave two there. If the issue is getting rid of "overpowered" blessed items why leave a 60 Resist, 25dci helm that never has to be repaired?

    All or none, don't make it so easy for every one to wear the poverty suit.