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Skill Masteries (Tram vs Fell)

Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by Lord Gandalf, Sep 30, 2015.

  1. whiterabbit

    whiterabbit Stratics Legend
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    Fel s beees goos for peeps, meees no gos der often. meees do hand out ice creems at yew moongate (fel)
    meees very very bad at pvp.so stays in tram.
     
  2. Zuckuss

    Zuckuss Order | Chaos
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    So it seems the age old debate has resurfaced. Ultima Online is non-consensual pvp. Pvping does not make anyone more of a social outcast than the same group of 5 friends who chain medusa daily. It does not have to be one or the other, and it is not fair to label an entire playstyle as a bunch of cheaters, let alone social degenerates\ rejects\ outcasts. Judge the person, not the playstyle.
     
  3. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Yeah there's cheaters in both, and terrible people in both.

    I do think that all items should be available in some form to both, though
     
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  4. del55

    del55 Sage

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    @Minerva Foxglove

    why did u like this post? do we ruin the game in europa? I asked u why there aren't so many players when i start europa. Do you remember the day?
    i help more than u help to newbies. reconsider ur thoughts about pvpers. I don't like ur attitude guys , thats why i start to kill u guys in fel. not the newbies, not the pvmers, not others but you guys.
     
  5. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Again the argument if Fel were so wonderful and wildly popular and all that great why is there so much room on Siege? If old school was really what everyone wanted then Siege would be so full that they wouldn't have put free housing on Siege...

    ROT crybabies I built a tamer there in shorter time than any other shard! Yes it takes a bit longer to work up a dexer but big deal. It's not that hard. I built a half a dozen characters there in no time at all... including a crafter.

    But again if the playstyle were so wonderful why isn't Siege full?

    As for crying about being Red and not being able to go get stuff... I do agree that the town buff thing is 100% unfair for Reds... However most Reds I know that are true reds wouldn't do PvM long enough to get a Paroxy or anything like that because they find PvM dull and boring. Yes everyone wants a Slither... but then a Bunch of folk want a Lt Sash too... try getting that in Tram.

    My argument is just that using crap to entice folk ie lambs to the slaughter is WRONG. Just as it's wrong that you can't get town buffs in Fel... Which IMO the town buffs aren't that wonderful anyway. And with the new stuff from Eodon won't be that awesome anyway.

    As for Fel dying out and such that's not just Fel it's the whole freaking game. Tons of folk leave all the time... Why? There are 100 different reasons every day. Cheaters, they got hacked, their account randomly quit allowing them to pay for it and they lost their home and 18 years worth of treasures and they just can't log in because it makes them sick... (#1 answer I'm betting of late)... they are tired of dealing with children and drama, they got married, the economy sucketh..., someone is harassing them... The graphics suck, their friends are all gone, a new shinny game came along... on and on and on...

    As for "Fel" Enticements it's not just PS's, they have double resources, greater chances of getting pinks at champ spawns, increased chances of getting drops and replica's, Pinks while doing T-Maps,... on and on but it doesn't make most folk want to go to Fel any more often than they do. Add to that all the Deco stuff in VvV... still does not entice lambs to the slaughter... Why because there are few lambs left and those who are know that whatever it is will be for sale... on a TRAM Vendor likely on Atl...
     
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  6. del55

    del55 Sage

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    Siege isnt ful cuz no insurance. re-collecting the items u need takes so many times. put insure system to siege and see the action.

    I truely dont get how can't u notice this difference.
     
  7. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    I would agree here but thats a whole other thread / debate!
     
  8. Giggles

    Giggles Wielder of Ebil Cookies
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    I'm going to regret responding to all of this on my phone... but here it goes! Yay thumbs!

    The reasons why Siege is not populated has nothing to do with people not enjoying pvp. That is a whole different topic, and completely irrelevant to this discussion.

    Sheep to the slaughter.... ahhhh how wonderfully dramatic and theatrical that sounds! Perhaps it is why you keep using that term, and beating it to the ground even though it has absolutely nothing to do with pvp at all. I have met hundreds of trammel based players in fel over the years who never consider that as being their situation. Several of them make thieves or stealther type builds to participate with the fun of fel even though they cannot pvp. No one who goes to fel is a sheep. And pvpers would much rather a fight that lasts for hours over killing some random nooby in a sorc suit.

    Do you have any idea how many guilds and alliances and real friendships have been forged over pvp? Either being the reds... or being the trammel players who group up in numbers to defend themselves? both sides have benefited from pvp over the years.

    Now as far as fel specific content.... everyone starts pvp somewhere. Back in the day i was very content doing trammel stuff... pvp was scary, frightening, new... I didn't understand it, and I had no desire to. Until the days came when there was content in fel I needed. I came, I died, I fought back, I died more, until over the years I am the PVP lover that I am now. I never would have experienced any of that if I didn't have a reason to go to fel.

    We don't want sheep. We want more friends and foes and people to enjoy this side of the game with us. People will not even take that first step without a reason to do so. So yes, as I have said before... Trammel needs it's perks and encounters and cool em events and everything else tram has... but guess what? So does fel. If you are a sheep... please stay in tram. If you want to enjoy a new part of the game and get cool fel specific rewards, please come join us. That should be how fel is viewed. Not how you paint it.

    P.s. yay thumbs!
     
  9. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Slightly Crazed

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    This thread has nothing to do with skill masteries.

    All players have access to everything.

    The Halloween event should be reds in Tram.
     
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  10. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    You PvPers may not want them but the PKers in fel certainly do. Those types thrive on targets that are no danger to them and die easily so they can feel like real tough manly studs after the easy win. I used to go to fel back in the UO:Ren days and for a few years after, got to know the type well.
     
  11. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Now *this* would be lively :p
     
  12. mspossi

    mspossi Seasoned Veteran
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    [QUOTE = "Mervyn, pós: 2600791, membro: 154.080"] :pipoca:[/ QUOTE]
    yeap!
     
  13. mspossi

    mspossi Seasoned Veteran
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    :sword:Yes! When I started this game, you could lose your home if a pkiler steal your key home! Oh! nice and sweet memories!!!:)
    Of course the times have changed, yes!
    I play these days with all off my char are blue...but I do not leave the felucca, and not refuse any fight.:devil:
     
  14. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    And even then they still have to have 3v1 or better numbers in my experience.
     
  15. Gilmour

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    Answer 1: You chose to become a murderer and a menace to law abiding citizens and now you want rewards for it? Deal with it.

    Answer 2: You can have all the things trammies can do, if trammies can also get powerscrolls.. (not a serious suggestion as the consequences is greater than anyone wish)

    Answer 3: You seriously telling me you have only murderer characters?
     
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  16. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Certifiable

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    Good god, Stratics poster's for the loss.

    So what 5 of you had bad experienced and hold a grudge that long? OOOOOOH NOOOOO I died because another player out played me! This is WAY to comical.

    Here is what I will do from now on seeing as how you all feel we can't have it both ways. I will comment in every trammy related thread just to disagree with your play style because...well..um...I had a BAD experience and my interests are more important then the general good of the community.
     
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  17. Gilmour

    Gilmour Certifiable
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    Answer 1 was meant as an RP reply, we do play a roleplaying game, no?
     
  18. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Lol, so mad.
     
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  19. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Babbling Loonie
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    Not being able to access tram should not be a problem for reds, simply because every account has 6 or 7 characters, and they can just access tram on a blue character just as I could create a red character if I wanted to do fel. It's the whole account - or 2-3 accounts - that matters, not the individual character.
     
  20. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Babbling Loonie
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    I've heard this argument before and have to agree with it. I don't do fel simply because my templates and suits aren't geared toward PvP, but when I'm farming Scalis, I'm hoping for a drop a PvP player might pay 100M for, because nobody needs a 100M item to PvM anything in the game.
     
  21. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    Some posts have been removed from this thread. Let's tone it down a bit and have this conversation without trolling, personal attacks, or blanket condemnations of huge swaths of player, shall we?
     
    Lord Gandalf likes this.
  22. HoneythornGump

    HoneythornGump Lore Keeper

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    This is the crux of the entire trammel vs. fel debate which is a total sham.
    Apparently @Bleak and @Kyronix believe a large portion of playerbase have a rosters with 6-7 characters that are all red.:rolleyes2::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce:

    Why else would they have introduced Royal Pardons making them useable multilple times?:thumbdown::talktothehand:

    We get PvPers on here whining about Felucca playstyle when everyone knows damn well they have 4-6 blue characters that they use for whatever they want to do in game. :talktothehand:

    Neither facet should have anything the other doesn't, both should be mirrored 100%.

    If you want to engage in either consensual or non-consensual PvP..go play on the Felucca Facet. If you don't stay on the Trammel side.

    The whole idea of adding "carrots" to Felucca is total BS. Risk vs. Reward is total BS. Power Scrolls being in Fel is BS.

    Put whatever carrot you want in Felucca. and I'll be headed towards the most deserted shards in UO, and these days there are plenty to choose from, to farm to my hearts content, and then transfer my items over to the shard of my choice.

    Make items shard bound, and you Devs are just shooting yourself in the foot, as you will reduce the desire for people to transfer, hence you'll sell less transfer tokens, and reduce the revenue stream on which part or all of your livelihood depends.

    These threads are beyond stupid for the exact reason Gilmour points out in questions #3.
     
  23. It Lives

    It Lives Slightly Crazed
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    I agree that the skill mastery's should be gained both in fel or tram and both sets should be tailored to fit both rule sets. how should they be tailored? Well to start they should compliment the rule set..... pvp boosts for fel and pvm boosts for tram pretty damn simple:]
     
  24. Merus

    Merus Crazed Zealot
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    I disagree with the idea that every facet should have access to all content. Playstyles are different, and should have unique rewards. It's ok to trade with each other for rewards that don't fit your playstyle.
     
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  25. Murdok

    Murdok Slightly Crazed
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    On LS? What exactly you need? I would be happy to craft ya a suit. Actually I bet I have a decent crafted mage suit sitting in a box... just give me a shout!
     
  26. HoneythornGump

    HoneythornGump Lore Keeper

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    We can agree to disagree...

    I find it interesting that you say "Every facet"? Like there are a bunch of them. There's two...
    My view point is that there should be equal access to all players regardless. I'm for equality.:thumbup1::cheerleader:

    Players should not be penalized or rewarded for their playstyle.

    I look at UO as one world that should ask one simple question:"Do you want to PvP or do you not want to PvP?"

    Players shouldn't be rewarded or penalized based on their answer to that question.
     
  27. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Actually I wasn't being outplayed, I would Mine in fel with a crafter in normal clothes using a shovel and get jumped and killed by a PKer in armor using a weapon who would promptly start yelling he'd owned me, that he was more of a man than me, that he was super tough and a badass stud, etc, etc, etc, so on and so forth. A major ego trip, all because his heavily armored and armed surprise attack took out someone who was unarmored and unarmed without warning. Yeah, some badass studs... *laughs*
     
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  28. Gilmour

    Gilmour Certifiable
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    That just made my day @Tanivar :)) but yes.. sound familiar though maybe not as extreme :)
     
  29. del55

    del55 Sage

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    lets get this straight

    fel rule server doesnt mean Siege. I actually dont understand why there is Siege. imo Siege is a totally missunderstood concept by UO Team.

    no insurance? pk in luna? (pk should not be able to enter guard zone)

    lets go back 1999 rules, open a server and see the population.

    and please fix speed hack, year 2015
     
  30. Necron87

    Necron87 Journeyman
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    PVP in UO dishonest and rotten,it gives pleasure to you to kill, and it isn't important whom,it gives pleasure to you to kill, and it isn't important whom also fight honestly. In Fell on champ not fights,there street dismantlings in the Chinese quarter,with killing of the defenseless.Most of players want to play UO quietly,and that PVP which to be created now on champ in Fell,it not PVP .... PVP is an interesting and fascinating thing, but not such what it now in UO.
     
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  31. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Grand Inquisitor
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    :facepalm:
    This thread.
     
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  32. Murdok

    Murdok Slightly Crazed
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    I mine ALOT due to the fact I can play at work... I mine strictly in fel! In the 17 odd years Ive played I have only been pk'd ONCE mining! And it was done by one of the better mages on the shard at the time. My miner happened to be gm mage and gm posioning. As soon as I saw his name pop up I hit my posion spell macro and ran directly at him and got off a dp... he still killed me in 2 spells but after he rezed me he sat and we talked a bit and both laughed about my reaction to him showing up. From that day forward I mined without any fear because the local red knew I was not going to run like everyone else. Now fast forward many many moons... the only miners I see in fel are automated and you can bet your rear that I WILL kill each and every one I see... Its called Player Justice because the powers that be wont stop them.
     
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  33. Balinor of Pk?

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    Or lets let people have their valid say without even if you don't like it without censoring it shall we? I love hearing peoples opinions when they're heated and you censoring them just makes me want to never come back to Stratics again.
     
  34. Balinor of Pk?

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    I've done similar to this more times than I can count. I've made friends with miners, usually will help noobs after I kill them, and always try to go out of my way for VERIFIED new players. I'll spend a whole day with them if I have the time, trying to get them to really enjoy some of the gameplay. And after that, I tell them to get ready, because next time we meet, we're enemies. But if I even THINK you can defend yourself, you're going to either run, and the fight is on. And I'll use everything at my disposal to kill you. Fields, bag balls, trapping off dungeon entrances... fielding drop downs. That's the FUN of it... You know how many times I've been at a drop down party where we killed entire 5-10 person guilds with 2 or 3 people xfielding? Ah the fun... ;) I do my absolute best to kill recall miners too. It's easy with a para weapon. ;)
     
  35. del55

    del55 Sage

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    damn, how many times people should say it you to understand?

    ultima online : fantastic middle age role play game. in middle age, u can be killed almost everywhere. especially when you leave the town.

    people hate siege, people who like fel pvp hate siege because there is no order at all. there is no insurance ( u need average stuff to pvp) , reds can enter every where, item collecting is diffucult, crafting is diffucult, money is another issue, skill training is issue. as u see siege is a totally missunderstood concept.

    there should be a server like ;

    one facet, pk's can enter every where and can kill every one. pk's cant enter guard zones, but they can sneak ( if guards catch they die).

    anyways i am pretty sure u wont undertand what i mean or u won't want to understand it.
     
  36. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Leave Siege alone, it was never meant to be a 1999 years server, it was meant to be a server with non con ruleset. And PK's in guard zone is no problem at all. In old days, we had alot fear and hate between red and blue, now they can meet safe in town.
    On Siege, only few reds are not welcome to public player events. With Gen chat, the shard is one big community. Yes we have PK's, but most are not trying to ruin your fun.

    Siege could need some love but we sure not need Item Insurance and 1999 rules for reds.

    Recall, more char slots and fel bonus could be a good start.
     
  37. Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS

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    Ok after reading most comments I got to say a few things, First of all get your head out of the sand and realise its 2015, The Pre-Trammel/Post-Trammel comments now are BS! Stop living a memory, its done, the game has evolved and changed , players have grown and a new group of players will emerge and trust me, there are not 30-50+ Old player, so they are not interested in the pixel crack, many new players will be young and will be coming to hunt you down and kill you, as its a game, with its pros and cons and its bugs, but its also ROLE PLAY, if you want to play an evil person that just wants to swear and be evil and kill someone else, well deal with it, there's nothing in the rules of this game that can stop it without breaking ''rules'' incase of harassment, etc.....
    Trying to complain because you cant get something is ridiculous, I am going to try make a list and I ask anyone else to contribute If I have missed something:
    (Not counting the VVV items for now, as I know it changes slightly the list, lets go for no negatives on suit)

    PVP SUIT

    Slither- Obtainable in SA - TRAM
    Primer Arms - Obtainable in both facets
    Desp Quiver - TRAM
    Regs for suit - SA - TRAM
    Crimson - TRAM ( Many places) , Meli, Parox and Prism In Fel
    Escaping boot - was a TRAM event....
    INT Boots - Obtainable in Both facets
    Spell, Corgul or LT sash - Obtainable both in Fel and Tram


    PVM SUIT

    Regs for suit - TRAM
    Slither- Obtainable in SA - TRAM
    Primer Arms - Obtainable in both facets
    Crimson or Tangle - Tram (Exception Meli, Parox and Shim in Fel)
    Escaping Boots- TRAM event....
    INT Boots - Obtainable in Both facets
    Spell, Corgul or LT sash - Obtainable both in Fel and Tram





    And this is just a small list of the top of my head, but dosnt it seem to show that theres is tons more things in TRAMMEL needed for a suit than in FEL.....
    Ahhh wait!!! You probably also want the Mongbats in New Haven to drop 120s PSes....... Come on!!! Its soo TRAM orientated this game, that you can even see it, just wander into Fel once in a while and get a needed PS for your build and thats its, stop winge!! As I said in my prior post, the rewards from FEL outweight a millions times the problems you may encounter......

    Ok lets make an example, you go with your nice armour into Fel and you meet a PK, worst can happen, you dead and you gave your insurance money to the PK..... Lets say, you got a nice expensive armour so thats maybe 20k at most.....
    best that can happen, you get 120 PS, worth millions..... How many times will I have to die to consume 20m worth in Insurance money lost to a PK?


    Also the fact , that I read somewhere someone say its unfair.... well the world we live is unfair to be honest, meanwhile many of us reading this BS in a forum, we got 1000 of children dieng everyday, so is that fair?? C'mon life is not fair, and UO shouldnt be an exception to that rule either.

    Its blatant that Tram has more things and will also have more things over Fel to please the crowds, but even after having been given more things, people still complain. Dont get me wrong, I play both facets and both have the cons and pros, but still I go on living with it.

    There way more exploits happening in Tram than in Fel, I will list a very common one, THE RESOURCE SCRIPTER.......
    Emmm, In Fel at least you can kill the person and make the game more ''equal'' stopping the person from farming and its all legal!!!

    Now this happens in Tram, you cannot kill the player, you report the player to GMs and they dont listen to you and if you dare to get something and attract it to kill the scripter, you get done for harrasment...... Have a think about this!!

    Going back to teh PSes, well trammies can grind and hunt many bits needed for suits and also sell them to make gold and in time buy the needed PSes.
    If trammies would stay to Tram and Fel players to Fel, what would happen to the markets? Well easy to explain if you got some common sense, someone will start to take advantage of this situation and set ridiculous prices, which in time will make the game unplayable as only a few will posses the things needed to create a suit.
    The game is set in a ''OK'' balance, most things can be hunted without dangers and only 1 or 2 really special items have to be ventured in Fel to get them....

    And I know people will criticize this last comment of mine, but think about it, 120 PS magery in Europa 20-24, And then Crimmy in Tram worth, 25-35, well that covers the cost of the PS dosnt it and its pretty much equal chance, luck or whoever to call it to get both.


    Really the only affected people about all of this if you wanna name it, would be the extremely new players, and even then, they are warned to not enter Fel, given cash in many cases for insurance and even given suits at times. That enough to start you up without having to enter Fel until you really need to, to finish your build and your template. I know people how are Billionaires ingame and never stepped a foot in Fel, they just trade and make money ad buy what they need with the money they earned.


    I could keep on going but I need to get to work or I will be fired and my accs wont be paid...... LOL

    Hope this helps some and it brings some light to the issues.
    Also anyone affected or offended by this, well its my post and I reserve the right to my thoughts, and yours to differ but in no sense was it directed to hurt you.

    PEACE AND WAR CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT EACH OTHER!!
     
    #87 Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS, Oct 1, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2015
  38. Merus

    Merus Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

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    Do you think every mob in UO should drop the exact same loot? Why/why not?
     
  39. del55

    del55 Sage

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    exactly, great idea LOL
     
  40. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Certifiable
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    Seems to me that PvP is already PG Disney crap, as long as all the PvPers want to have "trammies" aka non-PvPers on their facet.

    Consensual PvP would mean, that your prey would actually fight back. So this is bad, yeah?

    I don't fight back, because I neither have the skill nor the equipment to win a fight. Still a lot of those so called "PvPers" brag in gen chat, how they killed me or took over my champ spawn. I definitely wouldn't mind if those players would leave.
    Bottom line, playing in fel is still quite lucrative because of double resources or luck bonus, even if I get slaughtered every now and then. And once in a while I even manage to finish a champ spawn.
     
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  41. Aran

    Aran Always Present
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    Keeping the little sociopath PWNZOR kids from spending all their gaming hours repeatedly attacking people who aren't interested in fighting them isn't "PG Disney crap." I already put up with a world full of quick to fight small brained idiots in the real world, I don't need to be surrounded by them in a video game too.
     
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  42. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    Can't we just get a fel only shard and be done with the arguments every year?
     
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  43. railshot

    railshot Lore Master
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    You know, for someone who is only interested in fighting other PvPers, you are remarkably interested in have Tramies around. And I am sorry, I don't buy "I just want to help them" excuse. If the facets are separated, its easy enough to have characters on both places.
     
  44. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

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    The biggest mistake made in UO, was adding Trammel to old non con shards! The right solution had been making new happy shards with only con PvP and then have left old shard non con as they was born to be.

    Both sides are ok, but should not be forced to play on same shards.

    I had a lot fun on Atlantic before Trammel and stat loss. I was blue at that time and not yet a PK
     
  45. Giggles

    Giggles Wielder of Ebil Cookies
    Moderator Professional Stratics Veteran Social Media Liaison Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter The Squirrel Empire

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    Say and believe whatever you wish. That's how most people are anyways. No matter what I say or how many valid points I make there will be someone to argue them. As far as "my excuse" it really isn't one. I do help trammel players spawn on a couple of servers. Whether you buy that or not.. well.. I couldn't care less =)
    But I will say it is foolish no matter who you are to categorize people and playstyles as all being just the same. People in games and out of games are very very different. Are there jerk pvpers? sure! Are all of them jerks? I don't think so.
    *start sarcasm*But since we are on this theme.. I am assuming you are a tram player. Therefore I now think you are guilty of being a jerk who lures mobs and steals kills all day while I am minding my own business trying to get items that only spawn in trammel.... Don't try to defend yourself, or act like you are any different from the other tram players..... we all know that's how tram players act. :lick: So we should all start a petition to have the entire stygian expansion available in fel, and exodus, and anything I am forgetting, because I shouldn't be forced to play with griefing trammel players. *end sarcasm*

    See what I mean Jelly Bean? Doesn't feel good does it? If the rules and reasons were applied both ways... it just wouldn't make sense now would it?
     
  46. railshot

    railshot Lore Master
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    I am really not claiming that you don't help Trammies. I am sure you do. I was merely doubting that its your primary reason for wanting to have carebears around.
    It does seem a bit comical to me the insistence of many PvPers that they only want to fight other PvPers while claiming that separation of Trammel would somehow ruin their game. It just does not add up.
     
  47. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Slightly Crazed

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    Tram players going to Fel IS helping them, as without PvP they would never come to realise the epic ignorance they have long played under, regarding many aspects of the game. Most tram only players die a billion times more in Tram than they ever would spawning in Fel.

    There are two types of people, those that get killed and cry foul/imbalance/cheats/gank and whatever other excuse and those that say to themselves what did I do wrong/how can I adapt. People who adapt learn the game and become better at all aspects because of it when you actually learn the game it doesn't matter if the opponent is cheating you can still kill them. PvPing doesn't equate to being red, or murderous scum or being an idiotic loud mouth child (although yes many are) it equates to people that understand the game because they learn, rather than just blaming their endless deaths on bad luck/circumstance/any factor other than themselves. They make themselves victims before they even step in Fel just by being continually **** at the game and only willing to learn a fraction of it, usually as far as having a Tamer, sampire or Archer, if they can't do something on those templates they think it can't be done and anyone who can is either cheating or bs'ing.

    Zero sympathy for tram only players and many +'s for equality on the facets!
     
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  48. Aran

    Aran Always Present
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    So like... Siege?
     
  49. Lord Arm

    Lord Arm Lore Keeper

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    trammies get this, fel gets this, wth. if they made everything on both there would be ps on tram side too. take your blue (VvV) guy and do if not in fel. most are blue now anyway lame.
    my red will never be blue.
     
  50. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Hey, why not just have everything in both.