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Discussion in 'UHall' started by Atlantian, Jul 18, 2008.
I heard that SA was going to be only for KR players. Is there any truth to this?
It's not for anyone currently. They have completely stopped talking about it. It was originally stated to be KR only. The lack of KR support and development however will no longer allow that to happen. If we get a Stygian Abyss expansion it won't be KR only most likely. That will, in effect, kill any hopes of that client progressing in the manner in which it has to.
this was claimed by the developers at one time on the uoherald along with the statement that SA was going to be postponed until some of the bugs could be worked out of KR
The official word has been that KR will be needed to access the new areas of SA (due to technological advances that KR can utilize vs Legacy).
- Aye. Yes that was the last official word that I recall too, re:SA. The last official thing I recall hearing about any of it was that 'we will hear more by late August'; as the hints become ~ more-and-more obvious...
I must admit, it makes me wonder.
(how will it be?)
Anyone have a SKU checker for this fall's EA releases?
~ Will it be on the shelf?
I said I'm cautiously optimistic at this point.
Well, I said aye at least one or two times to the prior; but I'm still not sure if you can research it for yourselves (one time at Stratics I posted more than 100 times; I did. Don't believe me? Eh, said I).
If that does turn out to be the case, EA will be missing the boat with some of its very loyal 2d customers. I, am one of those. I didn't order Third Dawn to access the new lands/content. I simply waited till they released it to the 2d population. They would end up having to do the same thing with SA is they go through with it. If they dont I know I wont be buying the expansion.
If SA goes KR only,EA (UO) would suffer. I know very few people that even try that client. It is unstable! I gave up many many moons ago.
I think anything involving SA is a rumor at this point. Why speculate on something when EA has given none to little information about it and there is not even a tentative release date for the expansion?
We got a ton of smart players here , anyone find a EA registerd website or domain name based on SA?
I am convinced that the delay with SA is because they are reworking it to allow 2D. When SA comes out, if it comes out, it HAS to sell enough to be worth the investment in resources. If it is KR only, a client which some do like, but not enough, I don't think it will sell enough to recover even a fraction of this investment. This would become a sizable financial loss for EA/Mythic, and would, I believe, be a deciding factor in the decision by accounting, the TRUE Gods of UO, to finally pull the plug.
And I doubt they would actually come out and admit SA is being reworked for 2D, because that would virtually kill KR.
Of course this is all just my opinion, take it for what it's worth. But I invite anyone with authority from EA/Mythic to confirm/deny any of this.
(I won't hold my breath)
The whole point of SA was to take full advantage of KR's features and MOVE THE GAME FORWARD TECHNOLOGICALLY, so 2d won't work with it.
But in all likelyhood, they will dumb it down (if they ever realease it) to cave into the whining just like they did with Ilshenar.
"The whole point of SA was to take full advantage of KR's features and MOVE THE GAME FORWARD TECHNOLOGICALLY"
Absolutely, that WAS the original point. KR was to totally replace 2D. When KR was used by about 90% of the player base, 2D would be discontinued. Even the slowest amongst us have to admit that that isn't going to happen any time soon.
So here is EA/Mythic's dilemma. They can't release an expansion that only 10% of the current users are going to buy, for a client that, while improving, still has too many problems associated with it. They cant announce that they are reworking SA to allow 2D because that would effectively derail development of KR.
"But in all likelyhood, they will dumb it down (if they ever realease it) to cave into the whining"
Whining has nothing to do with it. It all comes down to $.
How would announcing that, SA is being reworked to allow 2D, derail development of KR... Unless the people developing KR don't know that SA is being reworked to for 2D... Otherwise, announcing that to the customers has nothing to do with the development of KR. We're not developing KR.
The development of KR has already been derailed. A number of things, during this recent series of quests, haven't been supported in KR. The Moonglow incident wasn't supported by KR, threads of fate/life are invisible in 'grid' view. The torn piece of paper from the corroded box is a white box in grid view. Dropping turn-in items onto their respective NPCs gets the item returned to your pack more than excepted by the NPC.
I'd bet that the initial anti KR outlash is what derailed its' development. For that SA, most likely, won't be as advanced as it could have been.
IF they ever finish and release SA, and that's a big IF, it will be SA only.
Why? Because unless it is yet another (they have had many) piece of Vaporware, they have already invested the man hours in it as a KR expansion. Redoing now so it will also allow the 2D client would actually cost them more.
Because this is missing the point. They don't sell copies of the game/expansions to people exploring them. They sell copies -in mass- to Luna Vendors and $/Gold sellers for the Pre-Order tokens and early arrival trinkets.
Heck, they could make an expansion that was nothing but a tweak to Mongbat squeeks for $9.99 and if it had a pre-order gift token for an ethereal mongbat minion it would sell 10s of thousands of copies. And they know it.
If SA ends up being KR only, LOtRO here I come. And Warhammer in the Fall.
Let me rephrase that. Announcing that SA is being reworked to allow 2D would effectively END development of KR. While some like KR, many don't, and some can't run it on their current system. And many of these I don't think could justify a system upgrade for UO in its current state.
Some, like myself, have KR installed only because it was announced that KR would be needed for SA. If EA/Mythic announced that KR would no longer be needed, that would effectively end KR development because they wouldn't expend the resources to support a client that only 10% to 20% of the player base used. Just like the old 3D. Which would mean all the costs they have already spent on KR would be a complete write off. It all comes down to $.
That would suck if was only for SA. The only players I know that use KR use it for crafting. Or were the 3D players.
"Heck, they could make an expansion that was nothing but a tweak to Mongbat squeeks for $9.99 and if it had a pre-order gift token for an ethereal mongbat minion it would sell 10s of thousands of copies. And they know it."
Exactly, just like the Charger of the Fallen. But oh wait, use of the Charger required ML, just as did the new dungeons, and many other in game additions.
Now answer this. Who is going to pay for an expansion to get an "Ethy Mongbat of total pwnage, if they can't use said Mongbat without a client they can't, or don't want to use.
Exactly. They can't release a product that only a relatively small percentage of the player base will buy. Not without accepting sizable financial losses. They either have to rework it, or greatly improve KR very quickly. And how much work have they been putting into KR?
I will bet SA, if released, will be ingame download only, just like KR, and will never be sold in any store. It is NOT on Anyones release list that goes thru december. The fact is, you do not sell a game at bestbuy/gamespot/ect, and have it not there one day, and on the shelf the next day, and no one was told about it.
If the goal of EA is to keep as much of the current player base as possible, and they have given up on even trying to increase the player base, then you can do exactly what they have been an are doing now. SA? Soon, later, we will get back to you, and so on.
Download only, and WE will all be live beta testers just like in KR.
A distinct possibility.
If SA is ever actually released which is somewhat in question at this point. It is highly unlikely it will be KR only. Most have given up on KR. I gave it a shot Beta tested it realized the devs themselves had for the most part given up on it as well and removed it from my computer. No amount of cohersion will get me to reinstall it either. It's a joke and if SA is made KR only it will be a joke too. Only way any future UO expansions have any hope is if they are 2d also not KR only or if they just grow some balls and make a new UO game along the lines of something like warhammer.
I think there will be a beta test for SA and i think SA will come. I don't think it will come anytime soon, though.
I think we'll have more in-game story stuff to keep us occupied while the devs work on SA and hopefully complete it.
Has anyone noticed that Leurocian has been awefully quiet on the forums lately? If I'm not mistaken, he's the lead designer for new content or something like that. Usually when devs are silent, it's because they're working really hard on something. It's like swimming under water. They come up for a breath (post on the boards) and then go down for some swimming (develop content)
well... that's my thought at least
I certainly don't think SA was vaporware.
All of what you say is true... and given the total lack of improvement to the KR client recently, I'd have to say they've come to the realization that KR is not the future of UO.
Honestly, they tried to do too much. They have claimed that studies show them that among the reasons players left the game was because of the interface -- excepting, of course that the UO interface is not really that hard to understand, it's just inconsistent (something that they REALLY should have someone deal with). With KR, the inconsistencies grow more.
But they changed the entire interface for KR in hopes that making it into an EQ/WoW clone would help. What they fail to understand is that the EQ/WoW interface works, but only if it makes sense to implement it that way. SWG was the closest to UO (wonder why), and their interface worked pretty well. UO's problem, much like old SWG's problem, is that by and large people understand leveling, they don't understand open-skill templates.
UO KR should have been a graphical update to UO 2D (and it's questionable if many areas could even be considered that in the KR client at this point, given the strange things they haven't fixed, like things above a certain point in a room just vanishing from sight), and should have made interface decisions that made sense. They don't.
So now we're right back where we were with UO 3D... The client's there, but people aren't using it. 3D's problem was that, while the game was the same, the 3D graphics were of poor quality, and initially it did look quite different. On top of that, because something was wrong with the client at first, it was unplayable on many systems (something I suspect may plague the KR client, and it's not even truly 3D). And EA doesn't know what to do.
But if UO SA does get released for UO 2D, then you're aboslutely correct... it sounds the death knell for the KR client. Because Ilshenar, while using the same basic setup as the 2D client, was intended always as 3D only, and eventually, it was released as part of UO LBR, because 3D client adoption was small.
EA had their chance with KR. They blew it by making poor design choices, not listening to the community, and "releasing" it way before it was ready. Like the 3D client, they're now paying for that mistake. In the form of making us suffer because of it.