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Discussion in 'UO Factions' started by kelmo, Jul 16, 2008.
At this point in time, I feel it is a lack of clear rules.
FoF: Far, Far Away
03 Jul 2008 16:08:04
"What are the rules regarding blocking off areas in faction warfare?"
There are a couple of different possible cases - here is the breakdown:
Faction Vendors: There MUST be a path between or around them. If there is not, the GMs will take action.
In A Faction City (but not in the stronghold): If there are items placed in such a way that other players can't move them easily (many many candelabras on one tile, for example) the GMs will take action.
In A Faction Stronghold: Anything goes.
If the GMs are forced to take action in any case, they will delete the items/vendors that are blocking a player's path. The faction signup stone is a good indication of where a faction stronghold begins. Keeping that in mind, any blocking that occurs outside of that area may warrant action
I dont think (appart from the lack of clear rules) that there is anythin wrong with factions, i mean TB base is a little too easy to defend and SL base is a bugger for theives, but all in all i like it the way it is.
Oh of course as long as this bug is fixed where u can heal opposite faction members is sorted lol. Tried it on a SL theif today and i healed her
But you still like me dont ya! That was to of been fixed yesterday I guess it didnt make the cut!
of course! yea i thought it was bein fixed today at server down
Thats pretty much my feelings. Other than that I would say Tamers pets not going into stat.
A close second would be an accurate way to tell how long the sig has been corrupting in someones base..
Not updated in 8 years.
cardell thats a good idea to have a count down timer on the sigs,
I agree with all the issues people have brought up (timer on sigs, pets not going into stat loss, etc) but if I had to narrow down one issue in factions that should be addressed it would be the ability to log inside an enemy's faction base.
People who log inside an enemy base should pop outside near the signup stone. If you log inside your own base, you should time out (not instant log) and reappear where you logged.
To avoid exploitation if a character hasn't timed out, they should appear exactly where they "lost" connection. Otherwise, people might hide, log in and out, then pop outside the faction base to escape trouble.
I'm sure we have all defended when we had the sigils for almost 10 hours, beat off raid after raid, secured the inside by tracking, fielding and revealing - only to have a thief log inside the sig room and reset a sig before any realized what happened.
For me that is the ultimate frustration in a well planned and executed defense. 10 hours wasted.
As a side note, I always like adding functionality to useless skills - allow a GM camper to log inside an enemy faction base but also allow a tracker to track "campsites" so a faction can prepare for the possibility of an internal threat and where it would potentially arise.
Lack of rewards that are not specific to Factions, and are not out-of-date.
A blessed Faction runic that poofed after 3 weeks was great in the old days. Now it is just a waste.
Hell, Faction Artifacts that had only, say, 50 to 100 durability, were blessed, and non-PoF-able would be better.
I wouldn't use them, but someone would.
It's not the #1 issue, but stat loss lasts too long.
20 minutes made sense when Factions was huge, and keeping someone out of the battle for less time would run a risk of letting them jump right back in.
But with the current participation level, where on most shards it seems like big, prolonged Faction battles are rare, a shorter period, such as 10 to 15 minutes, seems more appropriate.
No it isn't.
Are you agreeing with me ("20 minutes isn't appropriate anymore, Galen's right") or disagreeing ("no, 20 minutes isn't too long").
If the latter, why is it still an appropriate time when on more shards, by the time loss wears off, the Faction fight will have been over 18 minutes ago?
Skill loss is supposed to get you out of the fight, Galen. It's supposed to approximate being DEAD and no longer part of that particular fight.
I'm disagreeing with you.
I don't know the extent of your faction experience but when you have 2 guilds raiding each other every 20 minutes, it's really hectic and hard to replenish your resources on the defending side at the same time, it's hard to get back in there and make sure the defending side doesn't get completely replenished while you are raiding. The 20 minutes is a necessity because it's the harsh penalty that makes fighting risky. You don't want to die to be out of the fight for 20 minutes so you are that much more careful.
If that time is lowered to 10 minutes people aren't going to even notice the stat loss. Especially between raids. It takes 3 or 4 minutes to get resed and restocked. Regs, Gheals, Gcures, petals, boxes, bolas, res your pets, repair your armor, etc...
Stat loss is something you want, no matter how much you hate it, to be what regulates the pace of fighting. It's the same on both sides..
You can fight all you want until you die, that makes you worried about living a lot more than normal because once you die you are less of a threat, help, problem, solution, what ever. It's what separates factioneers from PK guilds that do nothing but spawn. They will field for hours, die a thousand times, and just keep going after they get resed. You don't want that in factions, because the bigger guild will win every time.
Totally agree, factions with a short stat time would become mononotous and raiding or defending wouldnt be any where near as excitin as it is now, it gets VERY hectic most of time, and i beg EA never to change it lol
I agree with Cardel and Papa, without stat it would be just like regular PVP in Fel. With the change in the number allowed in factions per acct, stat loss is easier to deal with.....just log out with one and log on another. Stat loss really isnt that big of a deal, .......if you die either raiding use stat loss and go in dead to scout the defense set up, especally in the TB base ugh or the as a defender go out and see what the raiders are up too!
It completely bewilders me that people continually confuse my argument for shorter skill loss (and btw, it's not "stat" loss at all, it's skill loss) with an argument for no skill loss at all.
The point of skill loss, I think we all agree, is to prevent Faction fighting from being like champ spawn fighting: Basically a test of who can rez. their people the fastest.
And, when the system is crowded with people and fights are prolonged, a long skill loss period makes sense....
Actually wait, let's back up......
What shard do you all play on? Are you all telling me that on your shards, Factions is active enough, and fights last long enough, that the 20 minute period actually makes sense?
great lakes is the shard and stat loss and is skill loss its the same thing diferent name. And yes fighting on greatlakes factions the battles last ten to 15 hours when we are either defending or raiding i would also have to agree with cardell and papa and arabella leave stats loss alone. 20 minutes is fine hellmostof us fight in stat loss anyways. seems i get more kills taht way for some reason.
We're on Great Lakes and yes, our fights are all day every day when the sigs are up. Last night, or i should say this morning, we were raided for about 3 1/2 hours straight (every 20 or so minutes). When the fighting is like that you understand why the stat loss needs to stay the same, no matter how much we hate stat loss. It was none stop, preparing, fighting, preparing, getting ppl in the base, keeping ppl out, getting supplies in, arranging defenses.
I play on a lot of shards, and the when the factions are active on any shard its just like that, hectic and non stop. When the factions are dull, and you have 2 or 3 ppl in 2 factions running back and forth, the stat loss (yeah its skill loss, but we call it stat loss) is a pain in the ass. But the faction were made for medium to large scale fighting and instead of changing the rules for the lame inactive times, you have to promote the factions and get more people in them so the features are working like they are intended to.
Why bewildered?... How long have you played factions and how many ppl and guilds are in factions on your shard.
No one is confusing your argument for shorter stat loss for no stat loss at all. The bottom line is 20 minutes is a good amount of time, to res up, restock, and chill out, all while having enough time left over to make you realize that stat loss is a pain in the ass and the best way to deal with stat loss is not to get in it in the first place. It is the feature the faction provides to rid the pvp from suicide attacks and clumsy rushes. Granted it doesn't totally prevent unorganized fighting, but it definitely is more of an incentive to be organized and prepared so you don't go into stat loss. And when all pvpers are more organized and prepared then the pvp battles typically last longer, thus prolonging the fun.
The reply is to both you and Decker.
I really should have known better about Great Lakes, seeing as how LS actually shares some people with you
But I wasn't thinking I guess....Oh well.
If any major shard (and Great Lakes is certainly a major shard) has 3.5 hour Faction fights on a semi-regular basis? Then my argument's pretty much dead in the water. Because like you were saying, if that is the norm, twiddling thumbs for 20 minutes is nothing.
Looking over the Factions lists on UO.com seems like Factions is more active on more shards than I had realized. So even if they may not be as active as GL...My argument's still pretty much done.
The only other option besides leaving it as is would be to somehow scale skill loss to Faction players on the shard, and that sounds like a major pain in the ass to code.
So there you have it.....My argument's basically dead.
*sighs* Oh well.
Oh.....As to skill loss vs. stat loss? I make it a point to call it skill loss as opposed to stat loss basically because "stat loss" is a reference to that thing that used to happen to reds upon resurrection, and that doesn't happen anymore....And was nothing like what happens to Factioners anyway, so why keep the old term around?
Most people I know seem to just call it "loss" and leave it there.
Oh and if you look at some of the replies to me, some of you were confusing decreasing the timer with getting rid of loss entirely. This happens a lot, I still have no idea why.
But at any rate....It's all moot....My argument has, in my judgment, been pretty much disproved.
Oh well.....Thanks for the discussion.
PS: I've been in Factions twice. Once many years ago, on an alt, and once now because my character Galen wanted to hurt the Shadowlords any way he could, and he figured hurting their followers in Felucca would count. And yes, I did join up before we could be healed in Trammel.
We've had a few couple-hour grinders on GL in the last 6 months.
Yep, as others in this thread have said. And, as I've said, that pretty much invalidates my suggestion. And I've admitted that openly and candidly.