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Three and a half-things about the pet changes on TC:

Discussion in 'UHall' started by imported_revenant2, Mar 25, 2008.

  1. I got ahold of 2 pet balls and tested them, one thing came up:

    Right now, the timer for the wait for the pet ball is associated directly with the player. Meaning, a player can hit one pet ball, then must wait the 10 seconds (I think that's what it is) before hitting it, or any other pet ball, again. It effectively forces the pet balls to chain in increments of 10 seconds, no matter which pet the balls may be linked to.

    This chaining effect feels overkill when you are working with several pets and several pet balls at the same time. You send your pets out, and then hit a pet ball to recall one, and then you cannot recall the other one until 10 seconds later. It doesn't feel right that way. It's like you expect each 10-second delay to be related to a ball's use on that particular pet, not to what you did to a different pet a moment ago.

    If you're using two pets, the pair of balls has the effect of causing the individual pets to have 20-second timers if you alternate your ball usage back and forth between both. The length increases as you add pets - a pack of frenzied ostards would take 40 seconds to be recalled to you, assuming the first hit on the first ball wasn't affected by any delay, and 50 seconds if you tried to move the whole pack a second time.

    The picture I had of a smooth operation was 10 seconds for each individual pet. You could send several pets out, and then if you had not been using the balls recently, you could summon them back without leaving some stuck out there by themselves for 10 + 10 + etc. seconds.

    Maybe the timer could be put onto the individual pet instead of the player's use of a ball? It should be doable such that multiple pet balls on a single pet won't work to defeat the intended wait time.

    I believe that in this form it still solves the issues that the change was intended to. Also, I'm not sure the tamers realize how this chaining effect is going to kick in with multiple balls (I might have missed where someone talked about it, but yeah). I for one had trouble finding 2 pet balls to even test with on TC and ended up doing it the long way, killing solen queens (doh).


    Two other things:

    2d client: When you tell your pet to guard you, you see the guarding flag appear on the pet, and the guarded flag appears under you. Then when you say "all stop", the guarding flag quickly disappears from the pet but the client is still saying "guarded" for you. You're not actually being guarded, though, and if you log out and log back in, the client no longer says "guarded" on you.

    And this exists in production as well as on TC1: if you feed a pet, it ceases to follow whatever its most recent movement command was. If it's supposed to be following or staying, it stops doing so and begins to wander aimlessly.


    Here's a half a thing:

    The pets' willingness to "protect" their owners is based upon the monsters initial attack (or auto-attack) on the player, before the player has even taken damage. I like this, but I also note that if the player says "all guard me" after this initial "attack" has occurred, the pets will not do anything protection-like, and are willing to stand and watch as the evil, assaulting monster rips the pet owner to shreds (heh). In one's wish list, one could say that in addition to what happens now, it would be nice if the pets were able to recognize when an attack of this sort is going on and respond to "all guard me" even after an attack has initiated.

    Overall it's a great improvement over what was there before! The pets are a million times more responsive to the "all follow me" thing, and they actually listen in the face of distractions, picture that!

    I didn't get to test any of the behaviors in PVP, this was all relative to monsters. :/

    Edit: I read that it's 15 seconds on each pet ball as it goes to Origin, mmm.
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hm, well I am fairly new to being a tamer and honestly have never used a pet ball - first because my pets were not bonded and I just needed to stay near them and take good care of them so they were still alive to bond, and second because ... well because I stay near my pet and take care of it, trying to keep it alive.

    Why are you "sending the pet out" to a place where it is no longer in your range to tell it to stop and come or follow in the first place? Why would you be using a pet ball in a situation where the (new improved) commands should work just fine?
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You have to remember why pet balls were introduced: To cut down on the pet-stuck calls to GMs. Not a get-out-of-trouble card for tamers and certainly not for PvP tamers to chase down an opponent.
  4. A couple of things...

    The most powerful PVP combos for tamers have the tamer on foot with one or two pets.

    A rested up pet will sort-of leap (some call it 'warp') to the thing you told it to attack. In PVP that thing is often a person who is now running directly away from the tamer. These two things take the pet away from the tamer faster than the tamer can keep up, and at that distance it doesn't respond to commands any more, as though it cannot "hear" at that distance.

    Pets that teleport using magery can cause the same thing to happen. And then pets can get split up, going in different directions, and the tamer cannot stay in "earshot" of both at the same time. And sometimes the tamer is physically blocked from having a chance of running behind his pets, such as a pet will warp or teleport across a barrier or other object that blocks the player's direct path to the pet.
  5. <blockquote><hr>

    You have to remember why pet balls were introduced: To cut down on the pet-stuck calls to GMs. Not a get-out-of-trouble card for tamers and certainly not for PvP tamers to chase down an opponent.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Pets were being introduced, used, and balanced within UO alongside of the pet balls being used in alternate ways. It wouldn't be wise to throw the alternate uses of pet balls straight down the toilet in that environment, it could screw up a lot of balance considerations and adjustments that have been made over time.

    I don't say that to attempt to justify everything that came out of such a system as being good and balanced - - chasing someone down and hitting a pet ball repeatedly to move the pet directly on top of them sounds like a crock.
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well, at the end of your post you said this was directly related to PvM not PvP, so I rather assumed that this was related to PvM, not PvP.

    As for what happens with pets in PvP, I see your concerns ... but isn't that very much the purpose of this change? You might have to come up with new tactics for PetVsPlayer, or be more careful of what you are doing. Rather than trying to send 2 different pets onto 2 different targets at one time, it may be necessary to more carefully choose the target and send both pets on the single target. Perhaps when the pets reach the end of your range, you call them back to you (this is what most PvP tamers I know already do.)

    As has been noted several times, pet balls were not originally intended to be used as get-out-of-trouble-quick cards; these changes will have the side effect of forcing a tamer to be careful with their pets, which is as it should have always been.

    Possibly try treating all your pets as if they are not bonded and actually require care ...

    Allow me to say I know (and call friend) several people who are PvP tamers, and I have never seen any of them really rely on summonsing balls ...
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Good points.

    Looks like the timer should be tied to the pet, not the owner. It'd sure be a pain to drag around a herd of frenzieds.

    Also, that "all guard me" problem is the reason people can guardwhack a guarded player in town. I'd like to see that fixed.
  8. Uthar Pendragon

    Uthar Pendragon Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Jan 7, 2005
    Likes Received:
    This is great news. Thanks for a fix to a long standing issue.

    At some point in time would it be possible to get a couple things added to the lore gump? I would like to know what a pets max skills can be trained to. I tamed my super dragon before I realized that I needed to track his pretame stats to figure out his max trained skills. Also in selling of pets this would help as someone would be able to tell what the max the pet can be tamed to. They will then be able to take that into consideration when buying/selling pets.

    Just a simple Current skill/max skill bit of info in the gump is all that is needed.