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Time for Dev to get Ready to Take Action!!!!!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Tycolby, Jul 18, 2008.

  1. Tycolby

    Tycolby Guest

  2. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Mar 3, 2006
    Likes Received:
    Extremely interesting and might very well have a major positive effect. What it will also do however, that is not as good, will be to drive this kind of activity more into the realm of organized crime, and especially to countries whose judicial systems can't, or won't, prevent this sort of thing. And it will make buying gold and items much more dangerous, in that the people who are selling them will themselves be much more dangerous.
  3. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Feb 25, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Ive been following this for a while. Ironic it is Marquee Dragon, the same folks that the UO team embraced with open arms even though they KNEW MD was involved with selling and supporting software for cheating. MD even sponsored or somehow supported live coverage of the Austin meetup.

    While they booted and rejected other groups and sites for , IMHO , far less.

    All I have to say to "that" UO team (you know who you are) is ha ha and you need to pay attention to whats going on around you.

    You kew darn well MD ws dirty, yet becuase he brought you (EA) dollars from selling codes for you you let it slide.

  4. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest


    I love it.

    I world without script-bots would definitely be a good world.
  5. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    May 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I doubt UO will want to spend the money to take it all to court though...

    "Hernandez v. IGE, which is a lawsuit on behalf of all WoW players against the gold seller IGE for "diminishing their game experience"."
  6. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Mar 18, 2003
    Likes Received:
    WoW also added several measures to reduce the effectiveness of gold sellers.
    The daily quests [which you can do and get like 250+ gold easy a day] makes it way easier for legit players to get mass gold and stay competitive and even take business away from the gold farmers.
  7. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    One of my rl friends just passed the patent bar a day or 2 ago. I ran this ruling by him and got a response I wasn't expecting.

    First, he already knew about it. Second, he said the ruling was a bad ruling and the ramifications could be far reaching and negative. He said the bit about having software loaded in memory is equivalent to claiming you've enfringed on a book's copywright by shining light on the pages.

    Personally, I like the ruling because of what it means for MMO's. I just hope it doesn't become an issue in other areas of intellectual property law.
  8. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Jun 19, 2002
    Likes Received:
    And yet, licensed software is absolutely nothing new. What is new is that companies are starting to find ways to enforce these licenses because of the situations created by people who take advantage of a situation.

    People haven't owned their software for years and years and years, and I'm actually amazed that there are people who actually believe that they do. It just goes to show that most people click right beyond the EULA, and fail to educate themselves, at least once, about what it is they're purchasing, installing, and agreeing to.

    Not to put a damper on your friend's analogy, but it's an incorrect analogy. What this analogy should be is that loading a program into memory and ALTERING its function (which is what this is all about... no one has said that the act of copying the program into memory is against copyright law if you have purchased your license) is akin to buying a book, putting a sticker over the cover that claims that you wrote it, and then handing it to your friend to read and use as if you actually wrote it.

    The ramifications of this are not as widespread as the panic-button pushers are claiming that it will be; companies aren't going to sue you for using their program. But -- and it's about time -- they are going to take action against people who do all of that fun stuff that actually affects their products. Computer software is not like buying a car -- just because you purchased a license doesn't mean you can spray paint it any color you would like.
  9. Well Im not a lawyer.
    But I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last week.

    We pay for the game.
    We are not bound to interface it in a specific manner by law but by TERMS O F SERVICE.
    We cant modify the program or interfere with the data stream.

    The rule in TOS may be that you cant sell items.
    The rule in TOS may be that you cant play unintended.

    The consequences are the responsibility of the gaming company. Not a court of law. Based on the above.

    The companys right to players breaking the TOS is to close their accounts.

    I dont think it is really that complicated.

    If a company allows tons of dummy 30 day accounts.
    If they fail to figure out who does what.
    If they cant track who creat 8 billion gold in 5 hours and who dupes.

    They are failing in delivering the product.

    Basically, if players are breaking TOS. Why cant the figure out who it is and terminate them.
  10. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Apr 22, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Actually... it's more taking a sheet of paper with lots of words on it and holes in it, taping it to a copier, and selling the copier to somebody who owns a specific book, telling them to copy a certain page of that book in order to get additional use out of that book.
  11. NB-Cats

    NB-Cats Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Aug 12, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Very interesting read.

    UO is a cash cow and companies like IGE ignore this little game.

    None of this will be applied to UO.
  12. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Just do a search for UO gold. That'll show you how much this game gets ignored.
  13. love2winalot

    love2winalot Guest

    Hail: I to slep at a Holiday Inn about 9 years ago, and since i have not used up my expert advice from it yet..........

    You have a property, you have a houserule that says, No pets, and No Loitering allowed on the property. But for almost 10 years you have allowed some people to have Pets in their units, and have never asked the guy going around hanging flyers on peoples doors to stop.

    One day a tenant come to the office complaining about the neighbor dog barking, and all the pizza flyers all over the parking lot. You say it will stop now. You tell everyone to get rid of their dogs, and the others to stop placing flyers on doors.

    They all say no. You sue them. In court the judge ask to see the house rules. You show him the part about no dogs, and no flyers. You think to your self, "hehe I am going to win"...

    Here is what actually happens, I have seen it happen similar to this.

    Judge: How long ago was these rules put into place?
    Manager: Almost 9 years ago your honor.
    Judge: Does every person on the property get a copy of these rules?
    Manager: Yes, and they had to sign for them upon moving in.
    Judge: "to the 14 people with dogs", How long have you had pets on the property?
    Tenants: From 1-9 years.
    Judge: "to people placing flyers" How many years have you been doing this?
    Flyer guys: From 1-9 years also, i hate my job, please help me.

    At this point the judge will turn to the property manager and ask one simple question, Why has it taken you between 1-9 years to do anything about this? Since you are not ENFORCING YOUR OWN RULES, do not be coming to my courtroom asking me to do your job for you.

    osi/ea/mythic has not enforced their own rules, and it is to late to start now, and it is certainly to late to ask the court for help.
  14. Brilliant. Exactly. You must have slept at an upscale HIE.

    We have policy and procedures at work.
    Some arent inforced.
    Havent been for years.

    Try firing someone for a PAP that hasnt been enforced for years.
    Its a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    "Your firing me for leaving 10 minutes early. For the last 10 years people have left early."

    There is more to life then saying this is the LAW, THIS IS THE TERMS OF SERVICE, THIS IS THE POLICY.

    The agency or whatever must enforce them and show they are active.

    Now real life is a bit more iffy.
    A MMO isnt going to get a favor from any lawyer unless there is pirating etc.

    Its up to the company to inforce the TOS.
  15. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Mar 3, 2006
    Likes Received:
    Bang on.
  16. Lucy of Kenton

    Lucy of Kenton Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    May 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    hey and i am a lawyer but i have no idea in this area of law.
    i kinda getting bored of posting this but .....anyone who buys stuff for rl cash is supporting these people. yet i still hear from players, i bought stuff from xxxxxxx and was a great deal etc etc. if u truly believe that the cash or items u bought are cosher then u need to see a doctor!
    ea could catch these people easily in a 'sting' operation but they choose not to simple as that.
    we care about uo but ea dont and if any dev reading this wants to know how to catch them feel free to pm me but hell it aint rocket science is it?!!
  17. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    yeah I'll like to see em try to enforce that out side USA , if they tried to bring some one to court here in denmark fro cheating in an online gaame they would be pointed and laughed at.... but hey in a country where u can sue a company because u where stupid ennough to try and dry ya cat in a microwave I guesse everything is possible.....
  18. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Jul 31, 2005
    Likes Received:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------EA won't have to spend a nickel once judgment passes the appeal stage....a mere threat to the bottom-feeders, who have diminished our game, is all it takes.

    I'm all for this action....this gold selling and scripting and farming has, like the article says, diminished UO to an item based game where items go for pathetic tens of millions, even beyond.

    Back when I started, a million was wayyyyy too much for an item.....now the gold sellers sling the words, oh it's just inflation.....just a crappy way to defend their underhandedness.
  19. Joyous2K

    Joyous2K Guest

    Very interesting. Exciting too.

    What did UO do? They decided to take a share in one of the first 3rd party programs, UOA, way back when. That is pretty comical. Pretty much sums up their stance, I think.
  20. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:

    Going after people who create and/or use external programs that allow a game to be epxloited or scripted REGARDLESS[/r] of motive, I'm for that 100%.

    Eliminating a segment of the free market BECAUSE people create what are effectively "counterfeiting machines", I'm AGAINST that.

    There is nothing inherehntly wrong with selling ingame gold and from the game mechanics point of view, there is ZERO difference in someone who sells an amount of gold to someone else and someone who gives the same amount to another person. All the game sees is that resource changing hands.

    "But Mythic owns the gold, therefore the players can't sell it".

    Not quite. Yes, Mythic owns the ingame resources, but at no time do they LOSE that ownership, as the gold stays in the game and thus in the possession of Mythic. What is sold is the TRANSFER SERVICE of moving the gold from player A to player B.

    "But that's no different than media pirating!"

    Again, not quite. Player A selling gold to Player B does not eliminate a potential sale from Mythic to Player B, where software piracy, movies or music piracy DOES eliminate the need for a person to purchase an original copy. In UO's case, the player is still paying what they pay all the time in the form of the monthly subscription fee, whatever expansions they buy or anything else in the UO Store.

    The case linked is more about someone who created a Bot/Script program for WoW, not simply going after someone who sold some ingame resources.... BIG difference and yes, those people NEED to be busted.

    As long as a person is NOT EXPLOITING, then let the Free Market reign.
  21. Ravenspyre

    Ravenspyre Guest

    About time, but unless the devs back that up with deletions of massive quantities of gold, UOs economy is still screwed. There would have to be some way to purge the trillions upon trillions of illegal gold in the game.

    Basically, the law closed the door that Richard Garriot opened over ten years ago. Ten years is a long time and could very well be too late for UO's economy, but time will tell.
  22. Pickaxe Pete

    Pickaxe Pete Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Oct 27, 2000
    Likes Received:
    This is probably against the Stratics ToS anyway, but pardon my ignorance, I did not see MD mentioned anywhere in the article.

    What is the connection?

    Edit: Never mind, found it. (MD's owner is a friend of MDY's owner)
  23. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Dec 6, 2007
    Likes Received:
    Well i cant say anything that hasn't been said already. The only way we are going to see changes is if:

    1. We file a class action suit against EA for not enforcing their own rules (in which case they will cancel the game). :fight:
  24. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 1, 2008
    Likes Received:
    You would know....right Goose?