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NEWS Transcript of the Catskills Meeting with Mesanna and Kryonix

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Flair, Mar 20, 2014.

  1. Flair

    Flair Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran OrderOfDrunkenElders

    Sep 30, 2012
    Likes Received:
    [19:04:04] [Crystal] Mesanna says: ok lets begin
    [19:04:22] [Crystal] Mesanna says: Pandora welcome
    [19:04:26] [Kyronix]: Good Evening Pandora
    [19:04:32] [Pandora]: Hello my Dark one.
    [19:04:42] [Mesanna]: Good evening
    [19:05:06] [Pandora]: Well, my first feedback for you guys is that this system was a great idea....
    [19:05:33] [Pandora]: I know Mes really wanted it to shine from her video at the 15th anniversary
    [19:05:43] [Pandora]: But I think for some times now
    [19:06:02] [Pandora]: you've been trying to mesh certain communities that do not traditionally mesh well
    [19:06:23] [Pandora]: I felt this system was predominately created for RP'ers
    [19:06:48] [Pandora]: but in adding the city buffs, it seemed to want to include the pvp'ers
    [19:06:59] [Pandora]: and traditionally those two communities just do not get along
    [19:07:07] [Pandora]: its the whole reason Trammel exists in the first place
    [19:07:26] [Pandora]: I feel the governor system should be expanded to include Felucca
    [19:07:34] [Pandora]: Let them have their own governor system
    [19:07:42] [Pandora]: and let them have the city buffs
    [19:07:53] [Pandora]: The two communities are just too basically different
    [19:08:18] [Pandora]: We want to beautify the city, we want to have events that are based in the history of the cities
    [19:08:28] [Pandora]: we want to expand the collections
    [19:08:39] [Pandora]: like the zoo and the museum and the library
    [19:08:44] [Pandora]: and none of those efforts
    [19:08:46] [Pandora]: NONE
    [19:09:02] [Pandora]: are taken into consideration by certain groups
    [19:09:09] [Pandora]: all they want is their buff
    [19:09:15] [Pandora]: because they create their templates
    [19:09:16] [Pandora]: for pvp
    [19:09:18] [Pandora]: based on them
    [19:09:21] [Pandora]: period.
    [19:09:37] [Pandora]: they dont care for any efforts that we do (the RP'ers) to bring that element to the city
    [19:09:47] [Pandora]: and while all our events are open to all types of players
    [19:09:54] [Pandora]: they just dont find that stuff fun
    [19:09:57] [Pandora]: they want to go out and pvp
    [19:10:03] [Pandora]: that's their fun
    [19:10:07] [Pandora]: so please
    [19:10:13] [Pandora]: consider that
    [19:10:20] [Pandora]: those two communities are DIFFERENT
    [19:10:26] [Pandora]: they have different goals
    [19:10:30] [Pandora]: different objectives
    [19:10:35] [Pandora]: and i'd love to see Felucca be more
    [19:10:43] [Pandora]: than just a place that we have exiled reds to
    [19:10:49] [Pandora]: it should be FAR more than that
    [19:10:56] [Pandora]: maybe I would enjoy pvp again
    [19:11:00] [Pandora]: if there was more to it
    [19:11:11] [Pandora]: but i urge to trhink about
    [19:11:17] [Pandora]: giving felucca its own governor system
    [19:11:28] [Pandora]: and letting trammel be more of the rp-focused governor system
    [19:11:36] [Pandora]: will that stop griefers?
    [19:11:45] [Pandora]: prob not... if someone REALLY wants to grief you
    [19:11:47] [Pandora]: they will
    [19:11:56] [Pandora]: but at least this separation will
    [19:12:02] [Pandora]: not PROMOTE such things
    [19:12:06] [Pandora]: the voting
    [19:12:16] [Pandora]: should be 1 vote per account on ONE SHARD
    [19:12:25] [Pandora]: the shard you have your house on
    [19:12:33] [Pandora]: that's your main shard
    [19:12:40] [Pandora]: and if you play multiple shards
    [19:12:43] [Pandora]: great
    [19:12:57] [Pandora]: but to have it open up to x y z shards all over
    [19:13:02] [Pandora]: just wasnt a good idea
    [19:13:06] [Pandora]: it was far better before
    [19:13:11] [Pandora]: when all my characters could vote
    [19:13:15] [Pandora]: i feel the change was
    [19:13:23] [Pandora]: too impulsive
    [19:13:28] [Pandora]: because it actually promotes
    [19:13:33] [Pandora]: people cross-shard voting
    [19:13:40] [Pandora]: like we're basically forced to do that
    [19:13:44] [Pandora]: and what about ppl like me?
    [19:13:52] [Pandora]: i have only ever played catskills
    [19:13:55] [Pandora]: my whole UO life
    [19:13:59] [Pandora]: I dont play other shard
    [19:14:02] [Pandora]: therefore
    [19:14:03] [Pandora]: guess what
    [19:14:12] [Pandora]: I am not as popular as others that do
    [19:14:25] [Pandora]: so its become a total popularity contest
    [19:14:35] [Pandora]: its not about what you can do for your city
    [19:14:39] [Pandora]: its about how many people you know
    [19:14:40] [Pandora]: :(
    [19:14:46] [Mesanna]: its politics
    [19:15:05] [Pandora]: And that's right... it is...
    [19:15:18] [Pandora]: and if I paid $15/mo to be an US Citizen to vote
    [19:15:30] [Pandora]: then that would be equivalent
    [19:15:32] [Pandora]: but this is a game
    [19:15:36] [Pandora]: that we all subscribe to
    [19:15:40] [Pandora]: and pay for
    [19:15:48] [Pandora]: we dont want to pay money to be griefed or
    [19:15:52] [Pandora]: have it be unfair
    [19:15:57] [Pandora]: or even percieved as unfair
    [19:16:01] [Pandora]: again
    [19:16:09] [Mesanna]: Ok Pandora how were you griefed
    [19:16:09] [Pandora]: i think felucca should be looked at more
    [19:16:31] [Pandora]: Well what I percieved as griefed is the personal attacks on my character
    [19:16:37] [Pandora]: on my moral standing
    [19:16:59] [Pandora]: being called names or being told that my only job is to PAY for a city buff
    [19:17:07] [Pandora]: I see that as griefed
    [19:17:19] [Pandora]: griefing is anything that makes you feel a certain way
    [19:17:25] [Pandora]: it causes grief
    [19:17:30] [Pandora]: i felt nothing I did
    [19:17:36] [Pandora]: was worth anything
    [19:17:48] [Pandora]: it was just about paying $2 mil a week for a buff
    [19:17:54] [Pandora]: expected to pay that out of my own pocket
    [19:18:15] [Pandora]: it was just my first term, i didnt know what it was going to be like...
    [19:18:30] [Pandora]: hell for ever my friend was governor of another city and we didnt even know
    [19:18:34] [Pandora]: a guideline
    [19:18:44] [Pandora]: on what the EM's could or could not provide
    [19:18:50] [Pandora]: it was SOOOOOO drastically different
    [19:18:56] [Pandora]: from one shard to the other
    [19:19:05] [Mesanna]: ok
    [19:19:14] [Pandora]: For the longest we didnt know what the system was really about
    [19:19:15] [Mesanna]: lets stick to the topic on hand here please
    [19:19:19] [Pandora]: k
    [19:19:49] [Mesanna]: so to sum up your issues
    [19:19:59] [Mesanna]: you want Fel incorportated
    [19:20:14] [Pandora]: I do... with its own system, with the city buffs moved there
    [19:20:35] [Mesanna]: well I was going to wait till the end but I will say this now
    [19:20:57] [Mesanna]: fel is not even under Blackthorns ruling so thats going to be hard under the new PVP system ...
    [19:21:02] [Mesanna]: that will be in place in the future
    [19:21:25] [Mesanna]: we want it out of towns not putting things back into the towns
    [19:21:51] [Mesanna]: one vote per account per shard?
    [19:22:17] [Mesanna]: Is that right?
    [19:22:22] [Mesanna]: sorry taking notes
    [19:22:32] [Pandora]: more like lock an account once a vote is cast to that shard
    [19:23:00] [Pandora]: or if it is as Kyronix mentioned before tied to the housing database
    [19:23:08] [Pandora]: maybe that might be something to explore too
    [19:23:16] [Pandora]: vote on the shard where your house is
    [19:23:18] [Mesanna]: Different systems
    [19:23:21] [Pandora]: ok
    [19:23:49] [Pandora]: kyro mentioned something about it would have to be similar to that database (something to that
    [19:23:53] [Pandora]: effect).
    [19:24:01] [Pandora]: because housing is locked to 1 shard
    [19:24:16] [Pandora]: not that they are same systems but that its similar in tha tsense
    [19:24:27] [Mesanna]: Pandora please finish up
    [19:24:31] [Pandora]: k
    [19:24:36] [Mesanna]: no thats not going to work
    [19:24:37] [Pandora]: Okay.
    [19:24:47] [Crystal] Kyronix says: *nods*
    [19:25:03] [Pandora]: Okay
    [19:25:03] [Crystal] Pandora says: Okay
    [19:25:35] [Crystal] Kyronix says: Thank you for your feedback
    [19:25:52] [Mesanna]: Thanks sorry finishing the notes
    [19:26:11] [Mesanna]: hi Timothy
    [19:26:14] [Crystal] Timothy Taterson says: Greetings
    [19:26:14] [Crystal] Kyronix says: Welcome Timothy
    [19:26:22] [Mesanna]: lets keep this to a few minutes ok
    [19:26:28] [Crystal] Timothy Taterson says: Governor Smoot has sent me on his behalf
    [19:26:29] [Mesanna]: so everyone gets a chance to talk
    [19:26:37] [Mesanna]: I saw him outside
    [19:26:46] [Crystal] Timothy Taterson says: he welcomes everyone to the city of Britain, and extends
    [19:27:01] [Crystal] Timothy Taterson says: the office of Britain to the Dark Lady
    [19:27:14] [Crystal] Timothy Taterson says: you are at his disposal
    [19:27:27] [Crystal] Timothy Taterson says: I will keep this brief
    [19:27:34] [Timothy Taterson]: (OOC)
    [19:27:45] [Timothy Taterson]: The system is popular with RPers
    [19:28:02] [Timothy Taterson]: and to alot of RPers 2mil a week is alot
    [19:28:11] [Timothy Taterson]: i see no reason for a gold charge for a city buff
    [19:28:36] [Timothy Taterson]: smaller shards would make use of it more if it were no charge
    [19:28:44] [Timothy Taterson]: in regards to voting
    [19:28:55] [Timothy Taterson]: 1 voter per account or otherwise
    [19:29:23] [Timothy Taterson]: please keep things simple. there are always people who will prepare, see what it takes to have an
    [19:29:31] [Timothy Taterson]: advantage in any system
    [19:30:00] [Timothy Taterson]: please keep in mind that any change, if there is any advatage, people will find it
    [19:30:15] [Timothy Taterson]: just please keep the system open to all
    [19:30:37] [Timothy Taterson]: and not just those with 20 -50 accounts who take advatage of any given voting changes
    [19:30:48] [Timothy Taterson]: To conclude
    [19:30:59] [Timothy Taterson]: Politics in a video game...
    [19:31:12] [Timothy Taterson]: is sure to make many unhappy
    [19:31:25] [Timothy Taterson]: its can be a brutal combo
    [19:31:46] [Timothy Taterson]: i would expect those running for governor to accept this
    [19:31:54] [Timothy Taterson]: a bit moreso than normal gameplay
    [19:32:15] [Timothy Taterson]: Governor Smoot did everything in his power to run a clean campaign
    [19:32:35] [Timothy Taterson]: And Commends all the Governors that try to do the same
    [19:32:39] [Timothy Taterson]: that is all
    [19:32:46] [Kyronix]: Thank you Timothy
    [19:32:48] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [19:32:51] [Crystal] Timothy Taterson says: *nods*
    [19:32:56] [Mesanna]: Kyronix
    [19:33:10] [Kyronix]: Yes?
    [19:33:22] [Mesanna]: You want to say something before we pull more
    [19:33:35] [Kyronix]: Ya sure, let me talk about the trade deal real quick
    [19:33:45] [Kyronix]: To keep it short, because I know a lot of people want to have a chance to speak
    [19:34:06] [Kyronix]: You have to examine the cost based on the reality of the economy as it is
    [19:34:20] [Kyronix]: Is 2 mil a lot for one person? Some yes, some no - however it was never intended for one perso
    [19:34:30] [Kyronix]: To carry that burden, and we've seen that has become the case in many instances
    [19:34:44] [Kyronix]: So instead of just dropping the cost, what we'd rather do is provide more tools
    [19:34:53] [Kyronix]: For Governors and their citizens to take advantage of so they can fund their cities
    [19:35:00] [Kyronix]: and the treasuries in novel and exciting ways
    [19:35:27] [Kyronix]: That's about the jist of it
    [19:35:28] [Mesanna]: thanks
    [19:35:29] [Crystal] Kyronix says: *grins*
    [19:35:37] [Mesanna]: nice and short I love it
    [19:35:39] [Mesanna]: next
    [19:35:49] [Kyronix]: Hello Jon
    [19:35:51] [Jon Marcus]: Good evening Messana and Kyronix.Thank for for holding this meeting.
    [19:35:54] [Mesanna]: hi Jon
    [19:36:02] [Jon Marcus]: Mine will also be short
    [19:36:08] [Crystal] Mesanna says: *smiles*
    [19:36:21] [Jon Marcus]: I would like to make a request that you change the "one accout--one vote+ rule
    [19:36:46] [Mesanna]: do you mean make it so?
    [19:36:51] [Jon Marcus]: I vote in Skara,but I also have another character that is very fond of Jhelom
    [19:37:02] [Jon Marcus]: I had to make a decision on which city to vote in
    [19:37:06] [Jon Marcus]: But...
    [19:37:14] [Mesanna]: oh I see what you mean
    [19:37:38] [Jon Marcus]: In allowing this,I would suggest that one account would be allowed to vote in the same city more t
    [19:37:41] [Jon Marcus]: than pnce
    [19:37:53] [Jon Marcus]: than once
    [19:38:07] [Jon Marcus]: Thank you
    [19:38:11] [Kyronix]: Thank you Jon
    [19:38:17] [Mesanna]: your welcome thank you for coming
    [19:38:28] [Jon Marcus]: thanks
    [19:38:30] [Mesanna]: dbl click the bell
    [19:38:46] [Mesanna]: Hi Bardo
    [19:38:49] [Bardo]: Hi mesana
    [19:38:54] [Kyronix]: Hello Bardo
    [19:38:57] [Mesanna]: No one can spell my name!
    [19:39:03] [Bardo]: I would like to say jsut 2 things please
    [19:39:07] [Bardo]: o srry
    [19:39:09] [Mesanna]: ok
    [19:39:21] [Bardo]: First I agree with Jon
    [19:39:39] [Bardo]: we could make its so one account could vote in 2 cities
    [19:39:48] [Bardo]: that would be fair I think
    [19:39:52] [Bardo]: and ..
    [19:40:09] [Bardo]: I dont know what pandoras box said all of anyway
    [19:40:18] [Bardo]: but not allowing pvprs to
    [19:40:33] [Bardo]: get buffs.. I dont agree. some of us have pvpr
    [19:40:42] [Bardo]: and play the rp side .,
    [19:40:48] [Bardo]: so I dont find that fair
    [19:40:54] [Bardo]: taht is all thank you
    [19:40:58] [Mesanna]: Thank you
    [19:41:00] [Kyronix]: Thank you Bardo
    [19:41:22] [Aron Unrequited]: Thank you for your time
    [19:41:23] [Kyronix]: Hello Aron
    [19:41:29] [Mesanna]: hi Aron
    [19:41:39] [Aron Unrequited]: I have one request, and one general comment
    [19:42:03] [Aron Unrequited]: The request first, as it doesn't need an answer as such
    [19:42:25] [Aron Unrequited]: But the councils I attend tend to be well behaved, and you can see similar here tonight
    [19:42:31] [Aron Unrequited]: Why, we even queue decently!
    [19:43:07] [Aron Unrequited]: The fear of the Dark Lady perhaps; hence as a connected request, it would be nice to see that at wider events
    [19:43:39] [Aron Unrequited]: Greater powers to squelch etc, I'm not sure, but the things that work for the Council have made roleplay in particular so much stronger
    [19:44:03] [Aron Unrequited]: But, my question about it directly;
    [19:44:30] [Aron Unrequited]: I play Europa, there's a question on Stratics about running for a Governer spot that's still open
    [19:44:37] [Mesanna]: ok how is this related to the issue we are here tonight?
    [19:44:47] [Aron Unrequited]: Could there be some clarification on how players can do that?
    [19:45:19] [Mesanna]: is there is an opening
    [19:45:28] [Aron Unrequited]: On Jhelom yes
    [19:45:42] [Mesanna]: email me and I will discuss Europa with you
    [19:45:51] [Mesanna]: this is not the place tonight
    [19:45:55] [Aron Unrequited]: I ask because it will be open on many shards
    [19:46:11] [Mesanna]: this is about an issue on Cats
    [19:46:20] [Mesanna]: not an open forums for any issue
    [19:46:21] [Mesanna]: sorry
    [19:46:25] [Aron Unrequited]: Oh? I thought it was for Governors in general, I'm sorry
    [19:46:30] [Mesanna]: no its not
    [19:46:31] [Aron Unrequited]: Then I shall bell myself out
    [19:46:36] [Aron Unrequited]: Thank you again
    [19:46:37] [Mesanna]: no problem email me
    [19:46:42] [Kyronix]: Thank You
    [19:46:57] [Aornis of GL]: Good evening, Mesanna, Kyronix. Thank you for holding this open forum.
    [19:47:01] [Mesanna]: Hi Aornix
    [19:47:02] [Kyronix]: Hello!
    [19:47:05] [Aornis of GL]: I am Aornis, also Alice, of Great Lakes, the current governor of Vesper.
    [19:47:13] [Aornis of GL]: I came here tonight to discuss what happened during last week’s election on Great Lakes.
    [19:47:25] [Aornis of GL]: Specifically, I want to discuss the Britain election.
    [19:47:33] [Aornis of GL]: The current, and previous, governor of Brit was griefed, and I feel that the actions of
    [19:47:43] [Aornis of GL]: the individual who did so should have ramifications.
    [19:47:52] [Mesanna]: Stop guys
    [19:47:56] [Mesanna]: I am sorry
    [19:48:02] [Mesanna]: one second
    [19:48:10] [Mesanna]: This meeting is about Catskills
    [19:48:22] [Mesanna]: They are having an issue
    [19:48:23] [Aornis of GL]: I apologize. From what I read of FLutter's message on stratics
    [19:48:34] [Aornis of GL]: it was for all greifing issues during elections
    [19:48:38] [Mesanna]: and asked for a meeting with us to discuss it
    [19:48:56] [Mesanna]: we will be more than happy to come to your shards and speak to you guys
    [19:48:57] [Aornis of GL]: May we request a GL meeting as well?
    [19:49:04] [Mesanna]: yes be happy to
    [19:49:06] [Aornis of GL]: Please.
    [19:49:08] [Aornis of GL]: Thank you!
    [19:49:11] [Mesanna]: we will set it up
    [19:49:14] [Mesanna]: but know this
    [19:49:19] [Aornis of GL]: Wonderful, thank you so much.
    [19:49:44] [Mesanna]: as I answered in email this
    [19:49:51] [Mesanna]: we do not have unique names
    [19:50:05] [Mesanna]: if a player is harrassing you then the bouncer behind me
    [19:50:10] [Mesanna]: will take care of it
    [19:50:15] [Mesanna]: he is very good at his job
    [19:50:18] [Brutrin]: Indeed
    [19:50:20] [Aornis of GL]: I have a point about the names, but I will share it on our GL meetings
    [19:50:25] [Mesanna]: ok
    [19:50:25] [Aornis of GL]: and he does look intimidating : )
    [19:50:28] [Mesanna]: lol
    [19:50:31] [Mesanna]: pretty huh
    [19:50:37] [Aornis of GL]: Hehe, yes
    [19:50:41] [Mesanna]: I am not trying to be rude here
    [19:50:45] [Mesanna]: I am sorry Aornis
    [19:50:49] [Mesanna]: we will set up a meeting
    [19:50:53] [Aornis of GL]: Thank you for your time. And again, I apologize for the confusioin about the topics.
    [19:51:19] [Mesanna]: oh I have two now
    [19:51:23] [Mesanna]: nice
    [19:51:24] [Aornis of GL]: hehe
    [19:51:31] [Aornis of GL]: Thank you both
    [19:51:33] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [19:51:33] [Kyronix]: Thank you
    [19:51:35] [Aornis of GL]: have a great evening.
    [19:51:37] [Mesanna]: we will set up a date
    [19:51:39] [Aornis of GL]: See you on GL, Mesanna.
    [19:51:43] [Mesanna]: ok
    [19:51:50] [Mesanna]: hi General
    [19:51:56] [Kyronix]: Greetings!
    [19:52:32] [General chaos]: sorry
    [19:52:34] [General chaos]: lost con
    [19:52:49] [General chaos]: sorry for the hold up
    [19:52:57] [Mesanna]: no worries
    [19:53:01] [General chaos]: im gona keep it short and to the point
    [19:53:01] [Kyronix]: If you get removed from teh castle just head on back
    [19:53:11] [Kyronix]: Not sure if you were out long enough to get auto removed
    [19:53:14] [Crystal] Kyronix says: *smiles*
    [19:53:27] [General chaos]: ok anyway
    [19:53:45] [General chaos]: i was on the night during the last day to vote
    [19:53:59] [General chaos]: and there was alot bashing
    [19:54:05] [General chaos]: typical for general chat
    [19:54:20] [General chaos]: i cant quote anyone to much extent
    [19:54:25] [General chaos]: but i do remeber
    [19:54:37] [General chaos]: that someone not giving any names
    [19:54:45] [General chaos]: made a character
    [19:54:51] [General chaos]: skankilicous
    [19:55:04] [General chaos]: and called pandora a skank
    [19:55:12] [General chaos]: and i did confront them
    [19:55:27] [General chaos]: and they just ignored me and then it exploded in general chat
    [19:55:28] [Mesanna]: thats what the harrassment feature is for
    [19:55:42] [General chaos]: yes but that feature doesnt work
    [19:55:55] [Mesanna]: ?
    [19:55:58] [General chaos]: mutiple people have used it
    [19:56:02] [General chaos]: and nothing happend
    [19:56:03] [Mesanna]: Is it broke?
    [19:56:05] [General chaos]: happens
    [19:56:09] [General chaos]: not broke
    [19:56:13] [General chaos]: no gms heere
    [19:56:15] [General chaos]: here
    [19:56:21] [Mesanna]: Psst
    [19:56:23] [General chaos]: i have been back
    [19:56:24] [Mesanna]: two right here
    [19:56:30] [General chaos]: for 3 months
    [19:56:38] [General chaos]: and u guys are the first ones to see
    [19:56:40] [Mesanna]: and you won't see a GM for that type of call
    [19:57:06] [General chaos]: i understand people trash talk
    [19:57:08] [General chaos]: its a game
    [19:57:27] [General chaos]: but breaking peoples morals and stuff like ive seen
    [19:57:34] [Mesanna]: General I am trying to get to the bottom of the issue here
    [19:57:37] [General chaos]: uncalled for
    [19:57:42] [Mesanna]: agreed
    [19:57:46] [General chaos]: aye
    [19:57:51] [Mesanna]: we are supposed to be adults
    [19:57:58] [Mesanna]: or most of us are =)
    [19:58:02] [General chaos]: i know
    [19:58:27] [General chaos]: thats all i gotta say
    [19:58:31] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [19:58:36] [Kyronix]: Thank You
    [19:58:37] [General chaos]: thank you guys
    [19:59:03] [Mesanna]: dbl click the bell
    [19:59:13] [Mesanna]: hi Parnoc
    [19:59:22] [Parnoc]: Good Evening
    [19:59:25] [Kyronix]: Hello!
    [19:59:34] [Parnoc]: i just have a comment that i think may help
    [19:59:55] [Parnoc]: I feel that this was done to make the cities more visited
    [20:00:02] [Parnoc]: but it has done the opposite
    [20:00:07] [Parnoc]: i feel that is
    [20:00:08] [Parnoc]: if
    [20:00:18] [Parnoc]: the buff were decided by each citizen
    [20:01:52] [Parnoc]: it would not make the person switch his city that he has been loyal to for
    [20:01:56] [Parnoc]: perhaps a long time
    [20:02:15] [Parnoc]: and would make much more popular the city buff and loyalty for each city
    [20:02:39] [Parnoc]: that's it, thank you very much
    [20:02:49] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [20:02:53] [Kyronix]: Thank You
    [20:03:00] [Mesanna]: hi Lucent
    [20:03:03] [Lucent Dreher]: Hello
    [20:03:06] [Kyronix]: Hello Lucent
    [20:03:10] [Lucent Dreher]: I'd like to keep this short
    [20:03:14] [Lucent Dreher]: as many are waiting
    [20:03:23] [Lucent Dreher]: so excuse abruptness
    [20:03:35] [Crystal] Mesanna says: *nods*
    [20:03:49] [Lucent Dreher]: I feel that most people do not agree that the city system is for rpers and that it is useful to
    [20:03:52] [Lucent Dreher]: all
    [20:04:25] [Lucent Dreher]: I also would like to know exactly what the problem on catskills was
    [20:04:33] [Mesanna]: me too
    [20:04:40] [Mesanna]: I have heard many things
    [20:04:41] [Lucent Dreher]: The election might have been a bit heated but it couldn't be the worst
    [20:04:46] [Mesanna]: but I hoped to hear it first hand
    [20:04:54] [Mesanna]: but I haven't
    [20:05:11] [Lucent Dreher]: Sorry that's about it
    [20:05:17] [Lucent Dreher]: cya
    [20:05:18] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [20:05:28] [Mesanna]: hi Velvathos
    [20:05:36] [Mesanna]: stop
    [20:05:41] [Velvathos]: Greetings!
    [20:05:44] [Kyronix]: Sorry!
    [20:05:46] [Kyronix]: Wrong button
    [20:06:00] [Velvathos]: Interestin' look ye have there Mesanna, been bathing in charcoal again?
    [20:06:15] [Velvathos]: Anyways!
    [20:06:38] [Velvathos]: Onto the discussion! I believe voting
    [20:06:40] [Mesanna]: you better be glad my slay button stalled out =P
    [20:07:05] [Velvathos]: I believe that voting should be done once per shard somehow, like someone else suggested
    [20:07:14] [Velvathos]: Tied to your house or something along the lines
    [20:07:30] [Velvathos]: But I feel you should be able to use all your characters to vote to vote in multiple cities
    [20:07:37] [Velvathos]: But only on one shard
    [20:08:25] [Velvathos]: I believe that's all for now then..
    [20:08:30] [Velvathos]: I will send you an e-mail..
    [20:08:32] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [20:08:36] [Mesanna]: ok
    [20:08:49] [Mesanna]: hi Brigantia
    [20:09:05] [Brigantia]: Could we please have some way of earning lockdowns for our events? A tool with limited time set?
    [20:09:19] [Brigantia]: Something that is not subject to the whims of EM's?
    [20:09:28] [Brigantia]: Spread out to all the cities?
    [20:09:57] [Mesanna]: For what purpose?
    [20:10:02] [Brigantia]: Events
    [20:10:07] [Brigantia]: to combat griefers
    [20:10:16] [Brigantia]: so they dont run off with all our decor
    [[20:10:22] [Brigantia]: and ruin our events
    [20:10:25] [Mesanna]: you mean like the market
    [20:10:33] [Mesanna]: or a crafting center
    [20:10:34] [Mesanna]: etc
    [20:10:36] [Brigantia]: no like the Hoopla
    [20:10:45] [Brigantia]: only Governors can do it
    [20:11:01] [Mesanna]: ok so Kyronix and the team have talked about this
    [20:11:07] [Brigantia]: something not subject to the whim of EMs
    [20:11:09] [Mesanna]: and we talked to the EM's
    [20:11:37] [Brigantia]: something we can earn
    [20:12:14] [Brigantia]: so its not just given out to 3 cites of 9 for example
    [20:12:28] [Mesanna]: we are going to build a library of the areas
    [20:12:40] [Mesanna]: that the governs can place for a limited time
    [20:12:47] [Mesanna]: in specific areas
    [20:12:57] [Mesanna]: but giving you the options to lock down items
    [20:13:17] [Brigantia]: that will help greatly
    [20:13:36] [Mesanna]: I think that will help you guys alot
    [20:13:40] [Mesanna]: do the events you want to do
    [20:13:47] [Mesanna]: and you can place them yourselfs
    [20:13:56] [Mesanna]: and place the styles of set ups you want
    [20:14:21] [Mesanna]: but thats in the future
    [20:14:27] [Brigantia]: it will help with greifers and percieved favoritism
    [20:14:40] [Brigantia]: i may consider running again if that is in place
    [20:14:43] [Brigantia]: thank you
    [20:14:50] [Mesanna]: your welcome
    [20:14:52] [Mesanna]: thanks you
    [20:14:55] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [20:15:05] [Mesanna]: Poo Poo
    [20:15:09] [Mesanna]: Hi
    [20:15:13] [Kyronix]: Hello
    [20:15:18] [Poo Poo Undies]: Hello
    [20:15:23] [Crystal] Poo Poo Undies says: Are there any plans on the table to expand the role of the governorship...
    [20:15:31] [Crystal] Poo Poo Undies says: or to provide a purpose to encourage players to interact with their town governor?
    [20:15:40] [Crystal] Poo Poo Undies says: aside from the town buff.
    [20:15:46] [Kyronix]: I think people are already doing that
    [20:15:50] [Kyronix]: On a number of shards
    [20:16:03] [Kyronix]: It's about what you make it - we left i open ended for a reason
    [20:16:06] [Poo Poo Undies]: Outside of roleplay?
    [20:16:38] [Kyronix]: The main purpose is to provide a medium for interacting with events throughout the realm
    [20:16:47] [Kyronix]: And bringing community leaders together and supporting them
    [20:17:01] [Poo Poo Undies]: Ok. That is all I have to ask
    [20:17:07] [Poo Poo Undies]: Thank you
    [20:17:17] [Kyronix]: providing tools to accomplish that would be along the lines of something beyond the buff
    [20:17:23] [Kyronix]: Thank you
    [20:18:27] [Mesanna]: hi Aurelius
    [20:18:29] [Aurelius]: Thank you for the chance to speak on Governor issues, i'll try be brief...
    [20:18:56] [Aurelius]: First I agree with most of what Pandora gave as reasons againt sht one vote per account, but ald
    [20:19:23] [Aurelius]: I play characters, not accounts - by all means limit the account vote to one shard,
    [20:19:42] [Aurelius]: but adding another gap between the player and the characters is not a good idea...
    [20:20:04] [Aurelius]: It also led to an issue where someone appeared to stand on multiple - as in about 20 - shards
    [20:20:23] [Aurelius]: As they were the only opponent to most governors they challenged, people were
    [20:20:46] [Aurelius]: obliged to vote for that governor - only for the 'pretender' to withdraw a ady into the elections
    [20:21:02] [Aurelius]: so effectively thos people lost any opportunity for a meaningful vote
    [20:21:07] [Aurelius]: on their home shard.
    [20:21:29] [Aurelius]: As for Felucca, and buffs ... we do need something for the Fel people ...
    [20:21:44] [Aurelius]: As it stands, the Trammel only option is causing more divisiveness between the
    [20:21:57] [Aurelius]: two groups of players, hwich surely can't be the intention...
    [20:22:07] [Aurelius]: A different, but parralel, system would be welcome.
    [20:22:28] [Aurelius]: Regarding voting being 'politics' ... yes, it is, in part
    [20:22:45] [Aurelius]: but when it's made cross shard polularity, it's not in-game, shard specific, politics,..
    [20:22:52] [Aurelius]: and again, surely that is not what is intended?
    [20:23:18] [Aurelius]: The other thigns I had planned to say, seem inappropriate as I had
    [20:23:34] [Aurelius]: uinderstood from theforums this was a general 'Governor's issues' duiscussion ...
    [20:23:51] [Aurelius]: Perhaps we can arrange such a general, not shard specific, conversation in some way?
    [20:23:57] [Aurelius]: And that's about it ....
    [20:24:03] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [20:24:09] [Aurelius]: Thank you for your time
    [20:24:12] [Kyronix]: Thank you!
    [20:24:27] [Mesanna]: Hi Jirel
    [20:24:35] [Jirel of Joiry]: Hello mesanna plz forgive my slow typing and abbr. I hava broken arm and only one hand 4 typing
    [20:24:45] [Mesanna]: Oh I am sorry
    [20:24:52] [Kyronix]: Hello! And feel better :(
    [20:24:59] [Jirel of Joiry]: I wish to ask 4 a legends meeting
    [20:25:06] [Mesanna]: ok
    [20:25:11] [Mesanna]: we will do one for all shards
    [20:25:16] [Jirel of Joiry]: ty kyronix
    [20:25:17] [Mesanna]: think its a good idea
    [20:25:37] [Jirel of Joiry]: ty we have had elections probs too
    [20:26:09] [Jirel of Joiry]: ty 4 both of your time
    [20:26:15] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [20:26:16] [Kyronix]: Thank you
    [20:26:27] [Jirel of Joiry]: sorry again 4 crummy typing
    [20:26:32] [Kyronix]: No problem
    [20:26:33] [Mesanna]: no worries
    [20:26:39] [Mesanna]: dbl click the bell
    [20:26:41] [Mesanna]: feel better
    [20:26:48] [Jirel of Joiry]: ty mesanna
    [20:26:59] [Mesanna]: hi Va'lis
    [20:27:01] [Kyronix]: Hello Va'lis
    [20:27:06] [Va'lis Razele]: Good evening.
    [20:27:10] [Va'lis Razele]: Where to start where to start...
    [20:27:27] [Va'lis Razele]: Well first...if you arent doing anything after this Mesanna...I know a lovely tavern in Nu'jelm
    [20:27:39] [Va'lis Razele]: But that is besides the point
    [20:27:40] [Mesanna]: asking me for a date?
    [20:27:47] [Va'lis Razele]: Are you saying yes?
    [20:27:59] [Mesanna]: we will talk later *winks*
    [20:28:06] [Va'lis Razele]: Oh lovely.
    [20:28:16] [Va'lis Razele]: Now, down to business
    [20:28:27] [Va'lis Razele]: I have a few points I would like to bring up.
    [20:28:38] [Va'lis Razele]: First... The griefing issues.
    [20:28:53] [Va'lis Razele]: I was there for much of the final day of elections.
    [20:29:16] [Va'lis Razele]: And to say it was heated well..
    [20:29:35] [Va'lis Razele]: Name calling is one thing.
    [20:29:46] [Va'lis Razele]: Some things were taken past that.
    [20:29:50] [Va'lis Razele]: Such as this
    [20:30:05] [Va'lis Razele]: One of many dropped throughout the towns
    [20:30:34] [Va'lis Razele]: But.
    [20:30:45] [Va'lis Razele]: People seemed very upset
    [20:30:53] [Va'lis Razele]: About people using multiple accounts
    [20:30:56] [Va'lis Razele]: That they pay for
    [20:30:59] [Mesanna]: look at general chat please
    [20:31:01] [Va'lis Razele]: To vote how they wished.
    [20:31:37] [Mesanna]: Va'lis I am aware of all this and more actually
    [20:31:40] [Mesanna]: but thank you
    [20:31:43] [Va'lis Razele]: Ah lovely.
    [20:31:50] [Va'lis Razele]: Second thing then.
    [20:31:54] [Mesanna]: I did come informed
    [20:32:00] [Va'lis Razele]: I am glad.
    [20:32:17] [Va'lis Razele]: But...My next thing
    [20:32:23] [Va'lis Razele]: Was on the topic of voting?
    [20:32:44] [Va'lis Razele]: In RL, voting is restricted to those of age
    [20:33:23] [Va'lis Razele]: Even gifts are restricted to those of age.
    [20:33:29] [Va'lis Razele]: Why is voting not as well?
    [20:33:36] [Va'lis Razele]: Just a thought.
    [20:33:51] [Va'lis Razele]: And one final thing.
    [20:34:02] [Mesanna]: Are you talking 30 days old?
    [20:34:08] [Va'lis Razele]: 30,60,a year
    [20:34:09] [Mesanna]: do you really think that would help?
    [20:34:10] [Va'lis Razele]: Something
    [20:34:14] [Va'lis Razele]: I think it would help
    [20:34:15] [Va'lis Razele]: Yes
    [20:34:23] [Va'lis Razele]: Now..I know..
    [20:34:32] [Va'lis Razele]: That some would treat is they do with the gift xsharding
    [20:34:39] [Va'lis Razele]: But it would help a bit.
    [20:34:59] [Va'lis Razele]: I saw a few trial accounts opened
    [20:35:04] [Va'lis Razele]: The young status dropped
    [20:35:09] [Va'lis Razele]: Ingots donated
    [20:35:12] [Va'lis Razele]: And they voted
    [20:35:12] [Kyronix]: You can't vote with a trial account
    [20:35:23] [Va'lis Razele]: If they purchase the 1 month game time
    [20:35:23] [Mesanna]: Brutrin you there?
    [20:35:24] [Va'lis Razele]: They can.
    [20:35:28] [Va'lis Razele]: I have in the past done it.
    [20:35:35] [Va'lis Razele]: I admit it, I have.
    [20:35:42] [Va'lis Razele]: Not for the most recent election
    [20:35:45] [Va'lis Razele]: But in the past.
    [20:35:55] [Kyronix]: At that point they have paid for their time just as anyone has
    [20:35:55] [Mesanna]: Please divorce that person please
    [20:36:11] [Va'lis Razele]: Then why are gifts not allowed instantly as well?
    [20:36:21] [Va'lis Razele]: Merely my thoughts on the matter in regard to voting.
    [20:36:30] [Kyronix]: We appreciate the feedback
    [20:36:32] [Mesanna]: tell him to just change the name please
    [20:36:34] [Va'lis Razele]: Last thing
    [20:36:46] [Va'lis Razele]: The whole buff issue
    [20:37:11] [Va'lis Razele]: I am one that agrees , that maybe the buffs should not be tied to the governorship
    [20:37:21] [Va'lis Razele]: But maybe to the guild system
    [20:37:27] [Va'lis Razele]: With a guild treasury
    [20:37:56] [Va'lis Razele]: After all
    [20:38:04] [Va'lis Razele]: Some players have their own towns
    [20:38:13] [Va'lis Razele]: Or other things
    [20:38:15] [Mesanna]: thank you Va'lis that they do
    [20:38:25] [Va'lis Razele]: I think that is all I have.
    [20:38:33] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [20:38:34] [Va'lis Razele]: And Mesanna, I will be waiting for your answer.
    [20:38:37] [Crystal] Va'lis Razele says: *winks*
    [20:38:40] [Crystal] Mesanna says: *grins*
  2. Flair

    Flair Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran OrderOfDrunkenElders

    Sep 30, 2012
    Likes Received:
    [20:38:47] [Gareth]: Man handle me
    [20:38:49] [Mesanna]: Hi Gareth
    [20:38:52] [Kyronix]: Hello Gareth
    [20:38:52] [Gareth]: 'Ello
    [20:38:56] [Gareth]: I have some suggestions to deal with "Outer Shard Voter Fraud"
    [20:39:05] [Gareth]: and this is coming from an owner of 26 Active UO Accounts
    [20:39:11] [Gareth]: A way to deal with Outer Shard Voter Fraud during elections is to have each vote drain
    [20:39:13] [Gareth]: your Characters Loyalty to say negative -10,000. This way the player would have to put
    [20:39:20] [Gareth]: in the effort to build their rating back up to vote in every election. You could also cap
    [20:39:29] [Gareth]: the amount of Ingots, Wood Etc. you can donate to gain Loyalty. This would also put a
    [20:39:36] [Gareth]: wrench in the scripters machine so they can no longer mine unlimited sources of Loyalty.
    [20:39:43] [Gareth]: This would not negatively impact players who regularly play on the shard or those who
    [20:39:50] [Gareth]: play on Multiple shards because if they truly play the shard
    [20:39:53] [Gareth]: building their Loyalty Rating back up should be no problem.
    [20:39:56] [Crystal] Gareth says: *Takes a breath*
    [20:40:05] [Gareth]: And last, I’d like to call for a Producers election and wish to submit my candidacy
    [20:40:08] [Mesanna]: macro that did ya?
    [20:40:14] [Gareth]: Ctrl C V
    [20:40:16] [Gareth]: :)
    [20:40:23] [Kyronix]: Heh
    [20:40:38] [Gareth]: One day... *Shakes fist* One day
    [20:40:55] [Mesanna]: have a nice day
    [20:41:04] [Gareth]: I will
    [20:41:11] [Gareth]: you too Krynoix
    [20:41:17] [Crystal] Gareth says: *Evil eyes*
    [20:41:30] [Kyronix]: Have a good one, enjoy!
    [20:41:31] [Gareth]: You may man handle me out of here now
    [20:41:40] [Mesanna]: you can do that yourself
    [20:41:43] [Mesanna]: dbl click the bell
    [20:41:53] [Mesanna]: hi Wildstar
    [20:41:55] [WildStar of Baja]: Hello
    [20:41:57] [Kyronix]: Hello WildStar
    [20:42:06] [WildStar of Baja]: First
    [20:42:24] [WildStar of Baja]: I think voting is already resisted to one vote per shard per vote
    [20:42:40] [WildStar of Baja]: I think Pandora meant one vote per account
    [20:42:57] [WildStar of Baja]: Second
    [20:43:18] [WildStar of Baja]: Role-players and PvPers don't have to be at each others throats
    [20:43:32] [WildStar of Baja]: On baja, several PvP guild were providing the funds for the deals
    [20:43:45] [WildStar of Baja]: so the two groups can work together
    [20:44:12] [WildStar of Baja]: that was all I had to say
    [20:44:20] [Kyronix]: Thank You
    [20:44:20] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [20:44:32] [Mesanna]: Hi Aedon
    [20:44:36] [Kyronix]: Hello Aedon
    [20:44:47] [Aedon Durreah]: Evening Mesanna and things who scare me
    [20:44:54] [Stethun]: Roar and such.
    [20:44:56] [Mesanna]: lol
    [20:45:07] [Mesanna]: my pretties
    [20:45:16] [Crystal] Mesanna says: *snickers*
    [20:45:16] [Aedon Durreah]: First off, I have not seen any true devide in the community I am a part of,
    [20:45:36] [Aedon Durreah]: I have dealings with those who sit in taverns and those why wild wildly through the old lands
    [20:45:55] [Aedon Durreah]: This election showed that coming together
    [20:46:04] [Aedon Durreah]: We had candidates from all walks
    [20:46:17] [Aedon Durreah]: Was there some mud slinging, most likely
    [20:46:38] [Aedon Durreah]: I myself dropped leaflets telling voters how untrustworthy I am
    [20:46:44] [Aedon Durreah]: And yet, I did win
    [20:46:52] [Mesanna]: lol
    [20:47:00] [Mesanna]: I am sorry
    [20:47:00] [Kyronix]: I guess that's one way to do it
    [20:47:03] [Aedon Durreah]: I have also had folks from all walks call me names
    [20:47:04] [Mesanna]: I shouldn't laugh
    [20:47:12] [Aedon Durreah]: indeed
    [20:47:30] [Aedon Durreah]: And i could make a long list of insults and hurt feelings, but to what end?
    [20:47:40] [Aedon Durreah]: Elections are dirty work
    [20:47:53] [Aedon Durreah]: And not for those easily hurt or insulted
    [20:48:19] [Aedon Durreah]: I have a lot of respect for what we are building in these lands
    [20:48:28] [Mesanna]: You have made some very good points
    [20:48:39] [Kyronix]: Indeed
    [20:48:47] [Aedon Durreah]: And hope that no actions will be taken to disrupt the unity of the community at large
    [20:49:01] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [20:49:04] [Aedon Durreah]: Thank you for your time and not killing me
    [20:49:09] [Kyronix]: Thank you Aedon
    [20:49:10] [Mesanna]: I would not kill you
    [20:49:16] [Mesanna]: I just enjoy killing Gareth
    [20:49:23] [Crystal] Kyronix says: *snickers*
    [20:49:23] [Mesanna]: Hi Flutter
    [20:49:29] [Kyronix]: Hello Flutter
    [20:49:31] [Flutter]: Hello Lady
    [20:49:37] [Flutter]: And Hello Ladys minions
    [20:49:44] [Flutter]: Im sorry this is taking so long
    [20:49:50] [Flutter]: Id like to address a fact
    [20:49:55] [Flutter]: with the audience
    [20:50:07] [Flutter]: Mesanna has my permission though she doesnt need it im sure
    [20:50:13] [Flutter]: to go through all of my accounts
    [20:50:21] [Flutter]: and hunt down meanly named characters
    [20:50:28] [Flutter]: that may hurt someones feelings
    [20:50:48] [Flutter]: The Dark Lady has had my credit card information for months
    [20:50:56] [Flutter]: certainly she is free to look at my accounts
    [20:51:06] [Crystal] Mesanna says: *LAUGHS*
    [20:51:13] [Crystal] Kyronix says: *chuckles*
    [20:51:22] [Mesanna]: trusting soul
    [20:51:24] [Flutter]: I have no "issues" and dont know why anyone would unless they are sensitive
    [20:51:36] [Flutter]: I do understand some people are
    [20:51:51] [Flutter]: And I do know that certian folk have blamed me for their "issues"
    [20:52:03] [Flutter]: I assure you I have not encouraged anyone to be ugly
    [20:52:11] [Flutter]: Aint nobody got time fo dat
    [20:52:19] [Flutter]: But My Lady I beg of you
    [20:52:28] [Flutter]: Dont limit our voting to once per shard period
    [20:52:33] [Flutter]: I do play multiple shards
    [20:52:44] [Flutter]: I do enjoy the company of many people herre and abroad
    [20:52:59] [Flutter]: I do not believe there to be one person elected to Catskills
    [20:53:04] [Flutter]: that does not role play in some way
    [20:53:16] [Flutter]: be it insufficient for those with "issues" i cannot help that
    [20:53:22] [Flutter]: some of us enjoy all apsects of the game
    [20:53:36] [Flutter]: But to say that we are not a tignly knit community is wrong
    [20:53:51] [Flutter]: Even I and the lovely Devin Ashley have mended fences
    [20:53:54] [Flutter]: and if that is possible
    [20:53:57] [Flutter]: all else is as well
    [20:54:03] [Flutter]: But limiting votes
    [20:54:07] [Flutter]: to once per account
    [20:54:14] [Flutter]: only hurts the poor fellow with only one account
    [20:54:17] [Flutter]: who wants to run
    [20:54:32] [Flutter]: versus the grroup that has what has been called "70+"
    [20:54:42] [Flutter]: its a lock in win for that person
    [20:54:46] [Flutter]: and everyone
    [20:54:51] [Flutter]: even the one with one account only
    [20:54:54] [Flutter]: should have a chance
    [20:54:56] [Flutter]: if they wish
    [20:55:03] [Flutter]: Thank you so much for taking the time
    [20:55:06] [Flutter]: to listen to everyone
    [20:55:15] [Mesanna]: No problem
    [20:55:22] [Kyronix]: Thank You Flutter
    [20:55:22] [Flutter]: And I aologise if there was a misunderstanding as to what the conversation is supposed to be abou
    [20:55:31] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [20:55:33] [Flutter]: I hope whoever had the issue does come forward
    [20:55:47] [Mesanna]: hi Thom
    [20:55:52] [Kyronix]: Hello Thom
    [20:55:54] [Thom]: Evening.
    [20:56:26] [Thom]: I'm not sure what the specific complain was about this last election
    [20:56:35] [Thom]: but i was around for most of the week of elections
    [20:56:52] [Thom]: And I was watching the Britain election a good bit
    [20:57:23] [Thom]: I'm sure there was more to it then what I saw
    [20:57:44] [Thom]: but from what I saw people that were not running were causing the issues.
    [20:57:48] [Thom]: Personally
    [20:58:05] [Thom]: I feel that if you run for governor you open yourself up to a certain amount of comments
    [20:58:16] [Thom]: And grief from other people
    [20:58:29] [Thom]: And if you can not handle that in an appropriate manner
    [20:58:48] [Thom]: then perhaps you can best benefit your chosen city in a way that doesn't involve running for office.
    [20:59:04] [Thom]: It doesn't require the governor office to run events or better the cities, and people can work with
    [20:59:08] [Thom]: the elected people to get things done.
    [20:59:25] [Thom]: There isn't a person elected on Catskills that i'm aware of that wouldn't work with someone in their city
    [20:59:38] [Thom]: To get things done
    [21:00:22] [Thom]: The other thing
    [21:00:31] [Thom]: That I wanted to say was about the trade deals
    [21:02:02] [Thom]: I am looking forward to the things that you have mentioned tonight as coming to the system to help
    [21:02:20] [Thom]: and feel that the deals benefit everyone equally whether they rp, pvp or strictly pvm
    [21:02:47] [Thom]: The governor system does a good job of getting people involved in rp that wouldn't normally
    [21:02:55] [Thom]: participate in it. And that's a good thing
    [21:03:33] [Mesanna]: Thank you Thom
    [21:03:39] [Thom]: Thank you.
    [21:03:41] [Kyronix]: Thank you!
    [21:03:45] [Thom]: For taking the time to listen to us.
    [21:04:04] [Mesanna]: hi Shenzin
    [21:04:11] [Shenzin]: Hello Mesanna and Kyronix, and thank you for this visit.
    [21:04:16] [Kyronix]: Hello!
    [21:04:35] [Shenzin]: I stand before you to speak to the voting
    [21:04:57] [Shenzin]: I observed both the Vesper and Brit voting
    [21:05:13] [Shenzin]: and the Vesper vote was ell handles
    [21:05:18] [Shenzin]: handled
    [21:05:23] [Shenzin]: but
    [21:05:35] [Shenzin]: dear friends of Catskills
    [21:05:50] [Shenzin]: I was ashamed of ghe Brit voting
    [21:06:15] [Shenzin]: to watch newbie players come for who knows where
    [21:06:37] [Shenzin]: and recieve ingots from a packy to gain voting rights?
    [21:06:45] [Shenzin]: is dead wrong
    [21:07:09] [Shenzin]: I hope I never witness this shamfulness again here
    [21:07:27] [Shenzin]: I trust you wil addreess this
    [21:07:38] [Shenzin]: thank you
    [21:07:42] [Kyronix]: Thank You
    [21:07:51] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [21:07:59] [Mesanna]: hi Tobias
    [21:08:04] [Tobias Cardont]: Hello.
    [21:08:08] [Tobias Cardont]: And thank you.
    [21:08:09] [Kyronix]: Hello
    [21:08:19] [Tobias Cardont]: Just two sort of quick things
    [21:08:42] [Tobias Cardont]: First, as a role-player, I'd like to think that role-playing is something that incorporates all kinds of playstyles.
    [21:08:45] [Tobias Cardont]: PVP, PVM, etc.
    [21:09:04] [Tobias Cardont]: I don't think separate but equal is ever a good idea, and hope that approach isn't adopted.
    [21:09:21] [Tobias Cardont]: Second, I was watching the election here very closely.
    [21:09:29] [Tobias Cardont]: Including in and out of game communications with both sides.
    [21:09:40] [Tobias Cardont]: Both sides attacked credibility. Both sides recruited cross-shard voting.
    [21:09:49] [Tobias Cardont]: They more or less used the same tactics.
    [21:10:00] [Tobias Cardont]: And I don't thin kthere's anything wrong with that.
    [21:10:11] [Tobias Cardont]: People should be free to use their accounts to vote how they wish.
    [21:10:15] [Tobias Cardont]: We all pay money for them.
    [21:10:34] [Tobias Cardont]: Lastly, when something is a big public spectacle.
    [21:10:41] [Tobias Cardont]: A lot of people are going to come out of the woodwork.
    [21:10:54] [Tobias Cardont]: I don't think it's fair to blame either side for everything that someone decided to say.
    [21:11:09] [Tobias Cardont]: Some people enjoy griefing some people might have had an unrelated axe to grind with one of the candidates.
    [21:11:25] [Tobias Cardont]: In general, I don't really even understand the need for this meeting because I've seen worse elections in UO.
    [21:11:32] [Tobias Cardont]: but I do appreciate you taking the time to organize this meeting.
    [21:11:46] [Tobias Cardont]: And hope that it helps in the future.
    [21:11:50] [Tobias Cardont]: Thanl you and that's all.
    [21:11:56] [Tobias Cardont]: Thank you even.
    [21:12:05] [Mesanna]: Thank you
    [21:12:29] [Tobias Cardont]: How do I escape?!
    [21:12:30] [Mesanna]: Tobias dbl click the bell
    [21:12:34] [Kyronix]: The Bell!
    [21:12:35] [Tobias Cardont]: Thanks!
    [21:12:40] [Mesanna]: hi Jac
    [21:12:47] [Jac Singleton]: My Lady, My Lord, good Beasts...Good evening.
    [21:12:52] [Kyronix]: Hello!
    [21:12:58] [Jac Singleton]: i would like to tell you that this is going to be very brief,
    [21:13:03] [Mesanna]: silent type =)
    [21:13:06] [Jac Singleton]: so short in fact that you may not even realize that i have stopped speaking by the time this is
    [21:13:16] [Jac Singleton]: but i wanted to be sure that you were well aware that i am a man of few words, and that I will
    [21:13:22] [Jac Singleton]: keep my thoughts incredibly short...
    [21:13:35] [Jac Singleton]: because i believe that if i keep my speech short, it will be better understood in a very quick mann
    [21:13:39] [Jac Singleton]: er
    [21:13:45] [Jac Singleton]: and to be concise, i want to remind you that i'll be quick about this...
    [21:13:53] [Jac Singleton]: thank you for this brief meeting...
    [21:14:00] [Jac Singleton]: That being said...
    [21:14:13] [Jac Singleton]: I wish to remind everyone that behaviors speak louder than words...
    [21:14:21] [Jac Singleton]: and this in the end is purely entertainment.
    [21:14:26] [Jac Singleton]: Thank you.
    [21:14:31] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [21:14:32] [Kyronix]: Thank You
    [21:14:42] [Mesanna]: Hi I
    [21:14:43] [I SUCK UP]: Hello
    [21:14:44] [Kyronix]: Hello
    [21:14:47] [I SUCK UP]: First Time Speaker, Long Time ULTIMA player
    [21:14:53] [I SUCK UP]: I have just one question in 7 parts.
    [21:14:54] [Mesanna]: welcome
    [21:15:04] [I SUCK UP]: I'd just like to start off with saying; What a great job you have done in sept hold's on Atlantic.
    [21:15:12] [Mesanna]: thanks
    [21:15:15] [I SUCK UP]: 1. Will there ever be a stop to one person being Governor on (X) number of shards
    [21:15:22] [I SUCK UP]: Sorry 1min phone.
    [21:15:32] [Mesanna]: excuse me
    [21:15:43] [Mesanna]: we just got put on hold I think
    [21:15:46] [Mesanna]: hrm
    [21:15:56] [Crystal] Mesanna says: *looks at watch*
    [21:16:25] [I SUCK UP]: sorry
    [21:16:32] [Mesanna]: lol
    [21:16:34] [I SUCK UP]: I have more inportant things
    [21:16:42] [Mesanna]: ok
    [21:16:48] [Mesanna]: hi James
    [21:17:07] [James]: Hello! *Smiles cheerfully*
    [21:17:40] [James]: Well, I don't consider myself much of a citizen of any of the cities...I live in the Freehold.
    [21:17:58] [James]: I did become a member of Yew though, so I could vote to make Aedon king.
    [21:18:39] [James]: I was originally thinking of being part of Britain though, but none of the candidates I heard of
    [21:18:49] [James]: Wanted to burn down the city.
    [21:19:27] [James]: Which brings me to why I was standing in line, as I found out as I got near the front
    [21:19:32] [James]: was to talk about voting.
    [21:20:09] [James]: I never cared much for it, or took it too seriously..
    [21:20:14] [Crystal] Kyronix says: *nom*
    [21:20:40] [James]: I'm more in favor of having a king, duely chosen, by seeing which of possible royals
    [21:21:19] [James]: would probibly complain the most if they didn't get their way
    [21:21:26] [James]: then you put them in charge so they'd stop it.
    [21:21:46] [James]: That's about all I have to say about voting.
    [21:22:04] [James]: By the way, aren't you the lady who made all those pies?
    [21:22:16] [Mesanna]: Nope not me
    [21:22:19] [Mesanna]: never
    [21:22:20] [Kyronix]: Mesanna's pie making skills are known throughout the realm
    [21:22:25] [Kyronix]: She's just being modest
    [21:22:27] [Crystal] Kyronix says: *nods*
    [21:22:40] [Kyronix]: Thank you James
    [21:22:48] [Mesanna]: Thank you =)
    [21:22:55] [James]: I like those pies, much better for throwing then most of the other ones.
    [21:23:17] [Crystal] Mesanna says: *grins*
    [21:23:42] [Mesanna]: dbl click the bell to escape
    [21:23:51] [James]: Alright then
    [21:23:57] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [21:24:02] [Mesanna]: hi Tserim
    [21:24:05] [Kyronix]: Hello
    [21:24:08] [Tserim Arryth]: My lady!!
    [21:24:14] [Tserim Arryth]: I must say, you are looking particularly evil today
    [21:24:22] [Mesanna]: Why thank you
    [21:24:24] [Tserim Arryth]: I have two comments and of course a humble suggestion
    [21:24:32] [Mesanna]: compliments will get you everywhere!
    [21:24:39] [Mesanna]: of course
    [21:24:43] [Tserim Arryth]: Firstly, I caution against voting requirements rules which have been suggested
    [21:24:55] [Tserim Arryth]: One vote per account, acount age, and so forth
    [21:25:15] [Tserim Arryth]: There will always be a sense of unfairness in large elections
    [21:25:26] [Tserim Arryth]: For there will always be someone with many accounts, or a lot of gold or a lot of friends
    [21:25:38] [Tserim Arryth]: What matters, in the end, is that the governor does their job
    [21:25:48] [Mesanna]: agreed
    [21:25:49] [Tserim Arryth]: As I understand it, King Blackthorn has the authority to remove ineffective governors
    [21:26:10] [Mesanna]: that he does
    [21:26:17] [Tserim Arryth]: As for mud slinging, so long as all live within the rules of Sosaria, it matters little
    [21:26:26] [Tserim Arryth]: I've wrestled bears with fouler mouths!
    [21:26:32] [Tserim Arryth]: My second comment...
    [21:26:51] [Tserim Arryth]: I feel that the governors bear too much of a burden with trade deals
    [21:27:09] [Tserim Arryth]: I think that it help to find a way to spread the love of paying for these trade deals
    [21:27:15] [Tserim Arryth]: But more importantly:?
    [21:27:32] [Tserim Arryth]: Smaller shards with smaller populations, cannot so easily get these deals themselves
    [21:27:59] [Tserim Arryth]: For this reason I think it might be better to have different costs for different deals
    [21:28:21] [Tserim Arryth]: Or at least some way for smaller towns to access some kind of deal
    [21:28:36] [Tserim Arryth]: Maybe the cost could scale to the number of citizens or the number of people that use the deal
    [21:28:47] [Tserim Arryth]: Finally, my humble suggestion
    [21:29:02] [Tserim Arryth]: There is an up and coming industry in these great lands of Britannia
    [21:29:11] [Tserim Arryth]: I feel they are being left out of the city trade deals
    [21:29:19] [Tserim Arryth]: I speak, of course, of the Donut Bakers Association.
    [21:29:32] [Tserim Arryth]: I feel they have a lot to offer to the great cities of Britannia!
    [21:29:37] [Kyronix]: Donuts are tasty
    [21:29:43] [Tserim Arryth]: Yes!!
    [21:29:58] [Tserim Arryth]: If there is one thing we need in these harrowing times, my lady, it's more donuts
    [21:30:09] [Mesanna]: wewill take that under advisement
    [21:30:14] [Tserim Arryth]: I feel that the recent election could have avoided much of its drama with more donuts.
    [21:30:22] [Mesanna]: I will see what we can do
    [21:30:23] [Tserim Arryth]: In any case, that is all I have to say about that!
    [21:30:32] [Kyronix]: Thank You
    [21:30:32] [Tserim Arryth]: Toodles!
    [21:30:36] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [21:30:43] [Mesanna]: Hi Tazar
    [21:30:47] [Kyronix]: Hello Tazar
    [21:30:47] [Tazar]: Greetings My Lady,
    [21:30:56] [Tazar]: I'll try to keep this short:
    [21:31:05] [Tazar]: Thank you for providing the governor's system.
    [21:31:20] [Tazar]: We all know that nothing is perfect, and that no matter how it is designed, someone will figure out ways to take advantage, etc.
    [21:31:41] [Tazar]: But as a whole, I'd say the program has been a success.
    [21:31:54] [Tazar]: Some have complained about what EM's and/or you can or won't do for them.
    [21:32:06] [Tazar]: but it really boils down to what the Governor can do.
    [21:32:19] [Tazar]: I was governor for 2 terms on Atlantic and had a great time with it.
    [21:32:35] [Tazar]: As Governor, I hosted events, and I never really requested anything of the EM's and never received anything
    [21:32:51] [Tazar]: except King's Guards attacking everyone near my house and killing all my neighbors… *grins*
    [21:33:05] [Tazar]: But it was fun all the way through from start to finish.
    [21:33:18] [Tazar]: I do however recommend Term Limits be it overall terms allowed, or consecutive terms.
    [21:33:35] [Tazar]: This system should not really be dominated by a few but should be shared by all.
    [21:33:52] [Tazar]: I, for one, appreciate the time you and your Dev/EM Team have put into this.
    [21:34:04] [Tazar]: Like UO itself, you've added another level to the sandbox and left the system open for us to play with and take it where we will.
    [21:34:23] [Tazar]: You can't please everyone, but I think you all have done a great job.
    [21:34:27] [Kyronix]: Thank You Tazar
    [21:34:33] [Tazar]: Thank you.
    [21:34:34] [Mesanna]: Thank you Tazar
    [21:34:41] [Tazar]: Now…
    [21:34:47] [Tazar]: Will you kill Flair for me?
    [21:34:51] [Tazar]: <<<<<<<<<<< *grins*
    [21:35:11] [Mesanna]: Flair has not said a word all night long =P
    [21:35:17] [Kyronix]: Hello
    [21:35:17] [Mesanna]: hi Kodoz
    [21:35:23] [Kodoz]: Good evening to all four of you
    [21:35:35] [Kodoz]: First I'd like to apologize for taking up your night this way, so I will try to be brief.
    [21:35:50] [Kodoz]: Second, I'd like to say we all appreciate the fine jobs you do on a consistent basis for us
    [21:36:08] [Kodoz]: Third, I'd like to say that I've heard and been witness to a lot of things with...
    [21:36:20] [Kodoz]: These elections, and that there is one recurring theme that everything falls back to.
    [21:36:31] [Kodoz]: What has been done to make them fair has been done, to my knowledge
    [21:36:48] [Kodoz]: Short of insane measures that would be profoundly ridiculous to implement
    [21:36:54] [Kodoz]: And incredibly time consuming if they were possible
    [21:37:01] [Kodoz]: There are few things that could improve it
    [21:37:08] [Kodoz]: Changing to veterans only discourages new players or new accounts
    [21:37:25] [Kodoz]: And nobody wants that.
    [21:37:43] [Kodoz]: However, the recurring problem to me is that there is a profound lack....
    [21:37:49] [Kodoz]: Of perspective.
    [21:37:57] [Kodoz]: These positions, while In Character
    [21:38:05] [Kodoz]: Are not some end all be all to our shard or any other.
    [21:38:17] [Kodoz]: They are merely another tool that you have graciously provided us with
    [21:38:47] [Kodoz]: And any tool can be used by the wielder for a variety of jobs
    [21:38:59] [Kodoz]: I appreciate the freedom that you have given us with this versatile tool
    [21:39:15] [Kodoz]: Both as a member of PGoH, a Citizen of Trinsic, and a proud fighter
    [21:39:40] [Kodoz]: Finally, the only advice I have for all involved
    [21:39:49] [Kodoz]: Is that there is only one person who can choose how these elections
    [21:39:53] [Kodoz]: or anyones words
    [21:40:00] [Kodoz]: Or anyones actions, short of being in fel and getting PKed
    [21:40:04] [Kodoz]: can affect you;
    [21:40:07] [Kodoz]: And that person is yourself.
    [21:40:14] [Kodoz]: It is your choice to react in a certain way
    [21:40:22] [Kodoz]: It is your choice whether to take things personally
    [21:40:30] [Kodoz]: And it is your choice to continue on in the face of adversity
    [21:40:37] [Kodoz]: Or give up, walk away, and start anew somewhere else.
    [21:40:46] [Kodoz]: Nobody owes it to anyone else to coddle them
    [21:40:52] [Kodoz]: We are adults, and we should all act like it
    [21:41:00] [Kodoz]: Once again, I am profoundly sorry that you have had to take time out
    [21:41:02] [Kodoz]: Once again
    [21:41:06] [Kodoz]: To deal with Catskills problems
    [21:41:18] [Kodoz]: I hope that I will once again see you all, but under far more favorable circumstances.
    [21:41:26] [Kodoz]: Thank you for your time, and I apologize for being a bit long.
    [21:41:29] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [21:41:31] [Kyronix]: Thank You
    [21:41:40] [Mesanna]: hi Sugar
    [21:41:41] [Kyronix]: Hello
    [21:41:48] [Sugar Smacks]: a few things to say so ill get to it
    [21:41:52] [Sugar Smacks]: I have had an opportunity to test this system and have had mixed results i would like to share
    [21:42:01] [Sugar Smacks]: several of the problems i encountered involved this very shard Catskills
    [21:42:18] [Sugar Smacks]: The problem being is the vote is no representation of the shard being voted on
    [21:42:38] [Sugar Smacks]: I found in my election the people voted on GL brit and Atl Brit and Catskills brit
    [21:42:42] [Kyronix]: From what I understand you attempted to misrepresent yourself as Dot Warner on Great Lakes
    [21:43:01] [Sugar Smacks]: i think mesanna can verify there is no dot warner on my acct
    [21:43:23] [Sugar Smacks]: i in fact had no knowledge of these events until the time of them and yes im aware of it now
    [21:43:31] [Sugar Smacks]: and yes i find it amusing
    [21:43:40] [Sugar Smacks]: but please back to the actual problems
    [21:43:57] [Sugar Smacks]: you literally have 1 group speaking for ALL shards if they please at this moment
    [21:44:14] [Sugar Smacks]: They may say they dont do it or wont do it but the fact is they CAN do it
    [21:44:26] [Sugar Smacks]: I voted and everyone i know voted on catskills
    [21:44:36] [Sugar Smacks]: none of us play catskils much!
    [21:44:43] [Sugar Smacks]: should i be able to vote?
    [21:44:51] [Sugar Smacks]: it was the same everywhere
    [21:45:07] [Sugar Smacks]: now you might take this as a sign of me caring of losing
    [21:45:24] [Sugar Smacks]: but i guess me laughing at that isnt convincing enough
    [21:45:34] [Sugar Smacks]: it was a test of something new
    [21:45:46] [Sugar Smacks]: and i warn you if this isnt happening it will happen
    [21:45:56] [Sugar Smacks]: because i will make it happen when i can achieve enough people
    [21:46:18] [Sugar Smacks]: so i warn 1 vote per account period when you take it farther it will not be pleasant
    [21:46:33] [Sugar Smacks]: you will not have a community you have a group speaking for all communities
    [21:46:39] [Sugar Smacks]: and no diversity
    [21:47:05] [Sugar Smacks]: now if you fix it
    [21:47:07] [Sugar Smacks]: great
    [21:47:09] [Sugar Smacks]: if you dont
    [21:47:10] [Sugar Smacks]: LOL
    [21:47:12] [Sugar Smacks]: either way
    [21:47:14] [Sugar Smacks]: i told you
    [21:47:25] [Kyronix]: Thank You
    [21:47:30] [Mesanna]: hi Devin
    [21:47:33] [Kyronix]: Hello
    [21:47:36] [Devin Ashley]: Hello
    [21:47:47] [Devin Ashley]: I have one suggestion which a lot will not like
    [21:48:01] [Devin Ashley]: While the system was invented for the player to vote , its not working
    [21:48:14] [Devin Ashley]: so why not use the RNG
    [21:48:30] [Devin Ashley]: everyone who wants to run does, and the RNG picks the winner
    [21:48:41] [Devin Ashley]: that way noboday can complain it was unfair
    [21:49:02] [Devin Ashley]: That is all and Thank You
    [21:49:09] [Mesanna]: thank you
    [21:49:18] [Mesanna]: hi Wild
    [21:49:33] [Wild]: hi!
    [21:49:37] [Mesanna]: Tucker is the last one tonight
    [21:49:45] [Mesanna]: hi
    [21:49:50] [Kyronix]: Hello
    [21:50:01] [Wild]: i bascially want to say that nabin's idea was reasonable in that a player must put forth some wor
    [21:50:08] [Wild]: work
    [21:50:13] [Wild]: in order to gain the ability to work
    [21:50:28] [Wild]: to have a certain amount of acheivment
    [21:50:32] [Wild]: accomplished
    [21:50:43] [Wild]: that way at least everyone will have "earned" there right to vote
    [21:50:54] [Wild]: no matter whom they vote for, they have earned their right
    [21:51:11] [Wild]: also i think the one vote per account thing is on the right track
    [21:51:27] [Wild]: because it limits the amount of potential "corruption"
    [21:51:46] [Wild]: in the fact that hose with many many accts will not be able to manipulate every elctions
    [21:51:51] [Wild]: just a lesser amount
    [21:51:55] [Wild]: its not perfect
    [21:52:01] [Wild]: but s tep in the right direction
    [21:52:14] [Wild]: and i think that with adding accomplishment to voting rights
    [21:52:29] [Wild]: will lesson the "misuse" of voting
    [21:52:48] [Wild]: that and the guys idea about donuts
    [21:52:55] [Mesanna]: lol
    [21:52:55] [Wild]: but to include cake in such measures
    [21:53:07] [Kyronix]: I'm in favor of more treats
    [21:53:08] [Wild]: we will NOT excude cake on catskills
    [21:53:11] [Crystal] Kyronix says: *nods*
    [21:53:15] [Wild]: exclude*
    [21:53:18] [Wild]: thats it
    [21:53:21] [Wild]: have a good night
    [21:53:28] [Mesanna]: hi Tucker
    [21:53:46] [Tucker]: hhi
    [21:53:51] [Kyronix]: Hello!
    [21:54:06] [Tucker]: I was wondering if it is possible to do term limits
    [21:54:16] [Tucker]: based on account
    [21:54:40] [Kyronix]: I think that might be too limiting to some of our smaller population shards
    [21:55:24] [Tucker]: or a way to make sure that
    [21:55:46] [Tucker]: the govenor actually serve the office
    [21:55:53] [Callista]: Dium Prostra
    [21:55:55] [Callista]: Dium Prostra
    [21:56:17] [Kyronix]: We do have checks in place to make sure a Governor is a no show
    [21:56:19] [Tucker]: and not just run to get a special title
    [21:56:25] [Kyronix]: Governors serve at the pleasure of the King
    [21:56:32] [Kyronix]: And the King can remove them from office if the need arises
    [21:56:59] [Tucker]: would the people have a chance to remove
    [21:57:08] [Tucker]: I mean
    [21:57:21] [Kyronix]: If citizens have concerns they are encouraged to bring it to the attention to the King
    [21:57:35] [Kyronix]: This way its not just a blind removal process where someone can falsly remove someone
    [21:57:52] [Tucker]: ok that's all thanks
    [21:57:56] [Kyronix]: Thank You
    [21:58:06] [Tucker]: good night
    [21:58:10] [Kyronix]: Thank You Tucker
    [21:58:29] [Kyronix]: Whew! Thank you everyone for coming out and providing feedback
    [21:58:39] [Kyronix]: I encourage everyone to continue the conversation both within the realm and outside
    [21:58:47] [Kyronix]: Send us your thoughts if you have something you wish to give us feedback on
    [21:59:07] [Kyronix]: We got a lot of great info tonight and will keep it all in mind as we move forward with changes
    [21:59:15] [Kyronix]: And additions to the Governorships
    [21:59:17] [Kyronix]: Thanks again!
    [21:59:34] [Mesanna]: Hi guys
    [21:59:51] [Mesanna]: We came here tonight because there was a request for a meeting
    [21:59:59] [Mesanna]: because of a issue you guys were having
    [22:00:05] [Mesanna]: due to the elections
    [22:00:23] [Mesanna]: I reseached what I could
    [22:01:38] [Mesanna]: I read the forums
    [22:01:44] [Mesanna]: I read the emails
    [22:02:00] [Mesanna]: and I listened to many people before coming here tonight
    [22:02:12] [Mesanna]: hoping I could get to the bottom of the real problem
    [22:02:19] [Mesanna]: but honestly
    [22:02:28] [Mesanna]: I am a bit confused
    [22:02:43] [Mesanna]: I see a group of people some RP'ers
    [22:02:46] [Mesanna]: some not so much
    [22:02:51] [Mesanna]: some maybe just trying
    [22:03:01] [Mesanna]: but all are playing the way the want to play
    [22:03:10] [Mesanna]: maybe things got out of hand
    [22:03:21] [Mesanna]: I was not here so I have to say maybe
    [22:03:47] [Mesanna]: I find it hard to believe that a shard as big as Atlantic
    [22:04:00] [Mesanna]: with as many different types of people as they have can play together
    [22:04:11] [Mesanna]: and enjoy the elections
    [22:04:20] [Mesanna]: as much as possible
    [22:04:29] [Mesanna]: and we can't do it here
    [22:04:41] [Mesanna]: what I heard tonight was some good suggestions
    [22:04:44] [Mesanna]: some good feedback
    [22:04:57] [Mesanna]: I head a few personal complaints
    [22:05:08] [Mesanna]: that GM's could and should have been called on
    [22:05:42] [Mesanna]: what I did come up with though from this tonight
    [22:05:52] [Mesanna]: is I want to start a open forum night
    [22:05:57] [Mesanna]: so its not restricted
    [22:06:09] [Mesanna]: of course I might have to limit it in time =)
    [22:06:18] [Mesanna]: or we will never get thru all the shards
    [22:06:47] [Mesanna]: but as Kronix said we do appreciate your feedback
    [22:06:57] [Mesanna]: we do take harrassement serious
    [22:07:33] [Mesanna]: and I hate getting calls on Sunday about people on Cats being upset and wanting to quit
    [22:08:04] [Mesanna]: so if I have missed something we have not discussed
    [22:08:17] [Mesanna]: if we did not touch base on something
    [22:08:22] [Mesanna]: I am asking you to email me
    [22:09:02] [Mesanna]: I know your squelched and can't talk
    [22:09:24] [Mesanna]: thank you all for coming
    [22:09:35] [Mesanna]: I will be posting the Meet the Dev times on your shards
    [22:09:42] [Kyronix]: Thanks again for coming!
    [22:09:59] [Mesanna]: so watch for it
    [22:10:02] [Mesanna]: Wild
    [22:10:10] [Mesanna]: stay alive =)
    [22:10:18] [Kyronix]: G'nite Everyone!
    [22:10:24] [Mesanna]: good night Everyone
    [22:10:37] [Mesanna]: email me at [email protected]
  3. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Gilfane

    Feb 29, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Waits for someone with talent to pull all those sentence fragments together into something less challenging to scroll thru......... ;)
    But couldn't help noticing Bonnie's closing remark about starting an "open forum night". That is wonderful!
    #3 startle, Mar 20, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
  4. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Mar 4, 2012
    Likes Received:
    interesting read and I hope you guys can find common ground and play nice in the future. one thing though:
    how can a guy with the name Poo Poo undies be taken seriously??
  5. Spiritless

    Spiritless Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    tl;dr. Exec summary? :(
    petemage likes this.
  6. WildStar

    WildStar UO Baja News Reporter
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Benefactor BRPA

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Thank you Flair for posting that. I had to leave before it was over.
    startle likes this.
  7. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Supporter Alumni Stratics Legend Dread Lord

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
  8. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 7, 2008
    Likes Received:
    That about sums it up kelmo
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  9. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Feb 20, 2006
    Likes Received:
    Oh my Kelmo you took the image right out of my head!
    I wish this could have been a visual forum meeting but know its impossible..
    I got the gist of the meeting from logging in the shard and listening to the griping... and after reading it I now see the whole delema.
    I was aproached by players on many shards to use my vast account base to influence elections.
    Many were trying to stop hostile takeovers by non shard entitys.
    I refused all inquiries and instructed the few who had legit problems to Mesanna's E -mail.
    I do not condone, fixing elections, real or game.
    Mesanna I give you my heart felt hope that you can see the problem, work out a solution, and input it to the growing troubling situation.
  10. RueTor

    RueTor Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 29, 2007
    Likes Received:
  11. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Supporter Alumni Stratics Legend Dread Lord

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    *smiles* I do get a bit of slack when offering an opinion. Not a lot... but a little. I have made a lot of deposits into the Bank of Stratics. Rather than offering up a lot of boring words to combat a wall of text... i get to just use an image. I feel this image was appropriate and rather cute.
  12. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Mar 18, 2003
    Likes Received:
    The governor system is a mess and I have not bothered to participate in the system since it was introduced since RP-wise it adds very little and the main incentive seems to be a buff and this buff draws out griefers. So I'll continue not participating in this system till it becomes more appealing to roleplayers.
    Minerva Foxglove likes this.
  13. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
    Professional Stratics Veteran Supporter Stratics Legend Glorious Lord ACW

    Sep 3, 2007
    Likes Received:
    The System is not a mess if you vote once per character on the Shard you live on in the town you are loyal to.

    Of course that takes a certain level of honor and maturity.

    *dusts of cloak and heads down the path least traveled*
  14. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Mar 4, 2012
    Likes Received:
    in reading it again, (yes, I'm a masochist.... bends at the knee to flutter :p) I get the sense that Measanna doesn't get the root of the problem.

    Hope you guys can work I out some way though.
    Flutter likes this.
  15. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Jul 3, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Just wow!

    This is what the Governors elections have come to?

    Out of all that I read one person probably came up with the best idea.

    Devin Ashley! We have a winner and a very smart woman I may add :)

    Btw both PvP and PvE has a voice in this game. In no way am I taking sides for one side only. If any player no matter their play-style ( PvE, PvP, RP) in a game has no voice then what is the point of having such a system in a game in the first place?

    With players being able to have multiple characters per shard on one account, plus with players with multiple accounts it can be taken advantage of and I just not sure the devs can really control the issues that some are having.

    In game politics can be brutal, let alone guild issues and politics to top it off. How could any player log in to play and enjoy the game when they have such issues on the forefront of a players mind when signing in. Can you imagine: Player A has been working all day with the bad feeling that the election they are running for is being taken advantage of while Player Z, W, G, H and have been home all day voting to win and for their own agenda to have buffs they want. That is why I think Devin's idea really is the best way to settle it.

    +1 Devin Ashley
  16. cazador

    cazador Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Aug 30, 2010
    Likes Received:
    To me it just seemed like a bunch of kids were calling the "mature adults" neener neener poo poo faces..and they went and told mommy..tsk tsk! Seems both sides need to grow up I think..

    And leave the one system!! Don't segregate the community AGAIN! And maybe add in a "bounty" system to the reds that join..
    Player-A (loyal to Jhelom)
    Player-B (loyal to new magincia)

    Player B kills Player A (chops his head and returns it to the felucca based town stone) and recieves town loyalty..the player killed recieves a 24hour debuff voted on by the magistrate(fel governor) something minuscule like -2 mana Regen or even negates the town buff for 10 minutes..

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  17. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Feb 20, 2006
    Likes Received:
    With accounts limited to house per it is a no brainer to limit the voting to the shard of the house. 1 vote for that shard/account.
    The few of us that are multi house account holders should pick a spot and stick with it. As in pick a primeary shard.
    I have long learned that Honor and civil understanding by many players is very much out the door.
    For those of us who follow rules, dothe right things in game and life feel stepped on.
    Bonnie is not a dumb bunny.. far from it. But you must understand with understanding comes the wisdom to give some rope in which to hang themselves to the offending partys.
    As a counselor I learned to use my patience and honorable thinking and good ear/sight skills and the honest comittment to being fair to my fellow players was a must. There is always 2 sides to the situation.
    Buying elections and stuffing a ballot box is not the answer... evil intentions always leave a bread crumb trail that even a child can see.
    If your looking.
    I contend to Mesanna to look under the carpet for the strings of Why they are doing it, What its effecting, Who is the main culprits, and the ultimate outcome if left to run its course.
    History has ways of changing opinions of actions once considered vile... or even for the greater good.
    Riyana and Bianca_CoD like this.
  18. Bianca_CoD

    Bianca_CoD Sage
    Stratics Veteran CoD

    Sep 14, 2010
    Likes Received:
    Well, change the name of "Governor" in Felucca to "Dictator" all reporting through to Minax. The EM's could play a Minax character (give her some life) and the old Minax Fortress in T2A could be redone to be her "castle" with a council room and all that. I could see that be all reds, they might actually enjoy that!!!! Let them have the stat buffs and run of the cities; remove guards from the cities and allow the "Dictators" to put in their own guards. :) This brings some RP element to Felucca, so those that may want to participate in that could, but still leaves the Trammel folks to their own system as well. Any player could participate in both if they wished.

    I do love the suggestions made here: http://stratics.com/community/threa...r-system-to-fel-and-how-it-could-work.313427/ Rename "governor" to "dictator". I could so get into that!! :D

    As for voting, I completely agree that voting should be locked to ONE SHARD... your house shard for that account. If you are lucky enough (like me) to still have an account that has "grandfathered" houses on it, (I have 3 houses on 1 old old old account on Catskills and that account has 2 houses in Great Lakes) allow them to choose the shard they wish to be locked to for that election cycle so that if I vote on Catskills (because I am flagged as allowed to) then I cannot vote on Great Lakes for that ONE CYCLE. The next cycle I could choose again and maybe I might choose to use my votes on Great Lakes that follow cycle.

    ~ Sue.
  19. Miri of Sonoma

    Miri of Sonoma Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Jul 10, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I don't agree with one vote per account..I don't play an account. I play characters each of whom could be loyal to a different town and should be granted a vote. Tie it to a house if necessary but each character on that house account should have a vote IMHO.
    MalagAste likes this.
  20. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Nov 11, 2010
    Likes Received:
    Good to see that Britannian politics are just as corrupt as RL politics. :facepalm:
  21. Deraj

    Deraj Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Mar 10, 2004
    Likes Received:
    I will reiterate what I said at the meeting and expand on a few points. Rules that restrict or raise the requirement to vote only serve to shift power in arguably arbitrary ways. The core "problems" (if one were to call them that) come down to two things: wealth and number of accounts. Consider: voting requires "respected" in a town. The result: candidates providing donation materials to players to reach respected, thereby favoring the more wealthy players. This is not a criticism of the "respected" requirement, merely an observation. In the end, you will always have players with more money, more accounts, or better networks of players with their combined money and accounts. There will always be a sense of unfairness in heated elections, with accusations of dirty politics, buying votes, trading votes across shards, or having a lot of accounts. What matters, in the end, is that the governor does their job, isn't absent from council meetings, and sets up the trade deal (the burden of which, ideally, should be spread amongst all who benefit from it, and not just the governor), and if the person in the office isn't doing their job, then the person that plays Blackthorn needs to remove them.

    Personally, I liked the meeting. It was nice to be heard. Thanks to Mesanna for listening.
  22. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    May 20, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I disagree with one vote per account. I didn't get involved with this mess, but when I rp ... ALL my RP characters should have a vote and they should be able to vote for whichever election would matter to them in-character. I would rather lose an election and have it griefed by folks trading votes than to limit the system via a method that is not RP friendly.

    My suggestion is to make a temporary period upon joining a city to when they can vote and require some level of previous login/activity. If someone wants to trade votes they'll need to have had their characters logged in for x number of hours. Will it fix fraud completely? No, but it'll make it more difficult without sabotaging those that stick to what our character would do and not what us as players would.
    Wenchkin, Flutter and Dag Nabbit like this.
  23. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
    Administrator Moderator Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Wiki Moderator Campaign Patron Event Coordinator

    Sep 14, 2012
    Likes Received:
    I absolutely agree with everyone who says voting should be restricted to only one shard--the one with your house if you have one. Right now people from other shards have a much greater influence on each shard's election than the natives/permanent residents of that shard. Every character on a single shard should be able to vote, then that account should be able to vote nowhere else. Players with multiple accounts will still (and will always) have the advantage, but they won't be swaying elections on servers they don't even play. (Or at least not as badly.)

    The hoopla on Catskills and the subsequent fallout are, I think, the culmination of two issues: firstly, the lousy way that cross shard issues are handled, and secondly, the overwhelming disparity between the richer players and everyone else (which, incidentally, is heavily fueled by the first issue). One group thought the governor should pay the trade deal him/herself and the other didn't, and suddenly kerfluffle.

    Many of the governors have been complaining since day one that the two million per week trade deal cost was way too high for everyone but the very rich and that the cost was falling almost exclusively on the governors themselves. The devs have continued to insist that this is not the intent despite players constantly telling them that in practice that is what happens, and it furballed into enough of an issue that Mesanna and Kyronix had to come hold everyone's hands for three hours at a meeting that was not accurately advertised for reasons that they themselves seemed uncertain of.

    The governor system is just exposing and bringing to a head a deeper, long-standing problem that actually has little to do with RP OR PvP. It's all about money and the seriously imbalanced economy.

    Also, I have to say that using the RNG to determine elections is the absolute worst idea I have ever heard regarding the governor system. What's the point in playing along, campaigning, etc., if its just a crap shoot? Furthermore, one person with multiple accounts would just run on all their accounts to maximize their chances of winning. Way to kill any semblance of RP whatsoever.

    All that said, I've probably enjoyed the governor system as much or more than just about anyone. It brought me back into the game at a time when I was teetering on quitting out of boredom, and it brought me into a group of friends and associates I would never otherwise have reached out to. I actually came out of near complete obscurity, RP'd the hell out of my first campaign (which seemed to me to be the obvious point of the system), and beat a very well-known player (who was very gracious in defeat) who had tons of friends (who are now my friends too), many of whom voted for me based on my campaign despite never having heard of me before.

    I see now how very lucky I was that first term--I was given a chance based on my RP efforts on my own shard, and since then I've had more fun in UO than I've ever had before. I've even opened extra accounts not for extra votes but for holding city-event and RP storyline houses and temporary RP characters. I just wish this was the case for more people.
  24. Merus

    Merus Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Aug 10, 2010
    Likes Received:
    IMO it comes down to why people run for governor/vote for governor.... I see 3 basic categories:

    1. They have a genuine interest in supporting a city and events.
    2. They want to control the city buffs.
    3. They want to grief those in category 1 and 2.

    I think the first order of business is to remove the conflict between groups 1 and 2. Let those loyal to their city select their own buff. Give the governor authority to select a preferred association which would halve the cost of activating the buff, but the player who activates the buff must pay in gold, materials, or looted items. I would tier the cost based on loyalty so that those more loyal to the city would get a discount. The fee should be high enough to continue to serve as a small gold sink, but low enough that it is not prohibitive for newer players. It also forces those who wish to participate in the buffs to contribute rather than passing the burden on to other players, primarily the governor. I think the overall effect of this would be an increase to the utilization of the buffs across all shards and would likely result in a larger gold sink they we get now. This way pvpers only have to worry about maintaining enough city loyalty to any city and can continue to PvP with their chosen buff without the need to feel like they must control an election to ensure the continuance of their buff. End result, less division between the RPers and the PvPers as both sides can get what they want out of the governor system.

    Second order of business is dealing with the griefers. Once the city buff issue is out of the way, there really isn't a way for them to grief the pvpers, so that only leaves those who are trying to cause trouble for the RPers. This one is much more difficult. I very much favor the idea of limiting voting to one shard per cycle. I dont really care if it is tied to housing, but once a vote is cast on a certain shard it should lock that account to that shard for that cycle. Let people pick what shard without having to worry about placing a house, that is fine with me. I think every character should be allowed to vote on that shard, but not in the same city. 7 characters, great, you can support 7 cities. What you can't do is vote 7 times in the same city. I think voting should also be restricted as follows: 1. Must be a paid account. 2. Character must be at least 30 days old. 3. Character must have been a citizen of that city and respected within that city for at least 14 days (effectively you must be a citizen and be respected in your city BEFORE the nomination process starts). The end result of this would be everyone who wants to vote would have to decide beforehand, without seeing who is running or how many votes have been cast before the process begins. IMO this would quell a lot of the griefing that goes on once the election has started. Sure, there will be folks who plan before hand and have enough accounts and connections to secure an election. I'm afraid there is little that can be done about that, but I think these restrictions would be a great start.

    Lastly, in the event that all else fails... the citizens of the town should be able to impeach the governor by a vote and with the approval of that shards King. If needs be a hearing on the matter could be conducted with a few outside EMs/Devs to hear arguments for and against the current governor.... I mean it IS roleplay right?

    Just my 2cents.
  25. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Nov 17, 2009
    Likes Received:
    If voting were 1 vote per account, it would have to be tied to housing. or we'd be in the same situation. there wouldnt be vote "trading" but there would still be plenty of people with 20 - 50 accounts that could be called upon to use all their votes for 1 shard. Very unlikely those people would all have houses on the same shard, unless it was actually his or her home shard.

    Whatever the changes, someones going to figure out an advantage if they really want to. i only hope it doesnt get too overly complicated so that an average player, like myself isnt forced into complicated preparations just to have a chance to win an election.
  26. SlayerofBunnys

    SlayerofBunnys Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Sep 9, 2010
    Likes Received:
    A proposed comprimise, but I am not sure how difficult it may be to implement:

    Each account gets the # of character slots worth of votes, so each account would get 5-7 votes. If the owner wants to vote 5-7 times in the Catskills Moonglow election or 1 time on 5-7 different shards it is their choice.
    Norrar likes this.
  27. Speranza

    Speranza Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Mar 18, 2004
    Likes Received:
    How does it not support roleplaying? We have successfully had several events and storylines added to Chesapeake based on the governor system, by governors, and even decorated a few of the towns adding more to the shard.
  28. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Aug 21, 2000
    Likes Received:
    Well... I'm inclined to only say this:

    Perhaps those voting not only have to be "loyal" to the City... and maintain that certain level of loyalty... but perhaps they have to be a "Veteran" character and have maybe at least 2 or 3 "GM" Skills. Though I know it can be "macro'd".... especially things like magery, med and mysticism..... it would be a pretty BIG discouragement for folk just running or trying to get votes from folk on other shards.

    But honestly what is the bottom line is it's just plain sad that some folk want to go out of their way to hurt another player just to Grief. And sadly there isn't anything that can be done to stop a greifer beyond EA/DEV's And GM's having a zero tolerance policy on it and banning folk.... but they haven't done anything to a griefer really in 16 years.... why start now? They also haven't done anything to scammers either.... but slap the hands of the victims and basically tell them too bad so sad sorry your a loser and gullible.....

    Perhaps if they had kept a strict ZERO tolerance from the start it wouldn't be so out of hand now.... but it's a little late now.
  29. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Nov 17, 2009
    Likes Received:
    many would argue that the system is an artifical mold for role-play and does not compare with more creative, individualized characters and plotlines. many would also argue that it promotes role play by providing an easy system for those new to roleplay to get involved in. both valid arguments.
  30. Pandora_CoD

    Pandora_CoD Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend CoD

    May 16, 2004
    Likes Received:
    I am expanding in depth on what I said at the meeting here...

    A) Tie voting to housing. Folks must establish "residency" to vote IRL, why not here in the game. If you have a house on a shard, that should be the shard you are allowed to vote on. If you do not have a house, guess what... you can't vote. If you are a grandfathered account with multiple houses on that one account in several shards, you are lucky enough to get to choose which shard for each election cycle you can vote on, but once you vote on a shard, you are locked to it for that election cycle.

    B) ALL CHARACTERS should be able to vote on the shard you are locked to. I too have characters that come from all walks of UO life and have varying loyalties based on their RP story. I should be able to vote on those characters for the different towns they are loyal to. As long as I am locked to the one shard.

    C) I'd happily pay $2 mil for the city trade deals IF there was a pay per use fee for the ones utilizing the buff that helps feed the city treasury AS WELL. Why should it all be on the Governor? That's not fair!

    D) I still feel you could do away with factions in Felucca entirely and replace it with a Governorship System of their own that is (since you mentioned that Felucca is not governed by Blackthorn but by Minax) tied to Minax as the overall General/Dictator, what have you. I mean if EM's can play King Blackthorn, why can't they play Queen Minax? I agree that that brings an element of RP into Felucca that is in fact something anyone can get into! People have had amazing ideas in regards of a way to bring this system to Felucca that is 100x better than whatever was presented before as Virtue/Vice. Please consider the voices of your members.

    E) I need an explanation as to WHY we're wanting to move away from the cities in Felucca? What are we so afraid of there? There is hardly anyone in the cities there. Remove guards, allow "Governors/Commanders" to set their own guards up as part of the city stone options. Why the heck not make it "City vs. City" with "peace treaties" as another gold sink? Add Champ Spawns to the city stones (new ones, leave the old ones as is) for each city.... another gold sink there. They would in essence kick off a scenario where they invade the city and we have to fight it off. Wouldn't that be a ton of fun? Maybe it brings folks to Felucca a lot more and outside of freaking YEW GATE! *grumbles*
  31. Pandora_CoD

    Pandora_CoD Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend CoD

    May 16, 2004
    Likes Received:
    On an ending note...

  32. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Mar 18, 2003
    Likes Received:
    A few town decorations and interacting with an EM is not what I consider a robust and active roleplaying system. But then again I don't expect RP to ever be what it was before 2001 where you had RP communities with several hundred players and all sorts of guild politics and warfare. RP is ultimately a "created by players" Devs tossing a few decorations and a fake governor system is meaningless.

    I would go as far as to say that FACTIONS has a more real governor system than what so called governors do. In factions, the City Commander can place guards, can place traps for enemies. The commander can raise and lower the prices of goods in towns and price out their enemies while giving unique benefits to their followers [Resource vendors, discounted reagent vendors, faction warhorses]

    What can a governor do? Pay 2 million a week for a buff and beg the EM's for Mesanna to place something for them? ooooo~~~

    Speaking of Factions, I hope the new pvp system keeps something like the City Commanders in the mix, it is an interesting part of the current system.
  33. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Jul 3, 2004
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    I really hate to use another idea from another game but here goes......

    In GW2 we held elections for 2 NPC representatives. We had to earn "tickets" and we could use them to vote for either candidate. There were multiple ways of earning these tickets by killing mobs, doing events and such to name just a minor few.

    So if the devs implement tickets on mobs in UO as loot as an example, this would give players that regularly play their home shards more if an advantage than the shard jumpers who hardly play other shards just to do EM events, holiday gifts chars, or buying items to transfer. This may curb some of the griefing and people voting on other shards for various reasons ( being paid to do so) that have no idea who they are voting for or why.

    1) This would give the home shard people more of a voice on their own shard since they play that shard more vs players begging/paying for votes from other players from other shards who do not play that shard very much or at all.

    2) Tickets should not be transferable to other shards. This is a must!

    3) The this gives all players from their own shard , no matter their play-style, a chance to actually use tickets to vote for the people they want to and have more control of their own shard outcome of their own elections.

    This is just a quick idea and I apologize for being a little vague ( Had a few cocktails and been out dancing all night :p) but it's a quick version the devs could use and work more on imo.

    Off to the hot tub I go!!!!
  34. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    May 12, 2004
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    Those of you saying one vote per account instead of per shard...

    What about the guy with one account who wants to give it a try who has to run against someone with 50 accounts? What is he supposed to do?

    What about the chick that enjoys playing multiple shards in different ways? Maybe she roleplays a goblin in pitmuck, has a tamer on Pacific, enjoys the social and commercial aspects of Atlantic, roleplays a girl with a hole in her shoe on GL, who's "home" (re: original) shard is Catskills, who is in a huge guild and alliance on Chessy, started a new character to play with a friend on Napa, and pvps on another shard anonymously? (Yes me) What about her? Can she really only vote on one shard? There has to be other people like me! Maybe not playing as many shards, but still.
    Wenchkin and Captn Norrington like this.
  35. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Jul 3, 2004
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    Gah I am not going to edit the above post but there is no limit on how many a player can obtain. So if one player gets 200 tickets by playing x amount of hours and another gets 341 tickets by playing more than the other, thats just how it works.
  36. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
    Administrator Moderator Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Wiki Moderator Campaign Patron Event Coordinator

    Sep 14, 2012
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    I don't like the veteran requirement. Vets shouldn't have a gameplay advantage over new players... it just discourages new players. Yes, I know most new characters are just vets on extra accounts, but still. Shiny pixels, sure. Gameplay/participation advantage, no.

    Some kind of skill requirement might not be out of line though. Not ideal, but it would be better than what happened in the last election: players (and I'm not singling anyone out--I did this too for one election) just distributed ingots to pay off the voting requirement, a system that unfairly favors wealthier players. Governors shouldn't have to be rich. Anyone should be able to take a shot at it without being steamrollered because they and their supporters can't buy and donate as many ingots as the other person.

    Maybe not even GM skills--just a full 700/720 points or whatever it is now. (I know I've had characters ages old with unfinished skills from where I changed them halfway through building them or waffled about what I wanted to do with them, but they still had all available points filled.) Either would definitely slow the influx of cheap newbie votes.
    Lawd I can see the farming already...

    Something based on HOURS played per character/shard maybe? I don't really want to see another farming grind implemented, which is what that would become pretty much immediately.

    Of course, with hours played, the forward-thinking election manipulator would just afk macro different shards every day.

    It's got to be locked down so that people aren't rigging elections so easily. I really think limiting voting to a single shard is the best way to do it. No farming grinds, no gold sinks or requirements that advantage wealthier players, just everyone's characters on their own home shard.
  37. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
    Administrator Moderator Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Wiki Moderator Campaign Patron Event Coordinator

    Sep 14, 2012
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    There is absolutely nothing we can do about the people with 50 accounts, unless we do something totally ridiculous like only allowing one account per credit card to vote. I doubt that's even possible, and it wouldn't be fair to families who have multiple accounts but different players per account. It would furthermore be inappropriate from a business standpoint to curtail the capabilities of certain accounts just because they were owned by a single person/payer.

    (And no, I don't have 50 accounts. In the interest of full disclosure, my husband and I combined have 5, and 3 are pretty much just RP house and character holders.)

    And as for playing multiple shards, that's great. But at the end of the day one is your home. I know you have multiple accounts, and presumably houses on shards other than Catskills, so you could still vote on more than one shard--you just couldn't overwhelm a single shard with offshard votes.

    It's not fair that Atlantic players can descend upon another shard and fix, say, a Chesapeake election, or someone from Baja can put out a call on Chesapeake to overwhelm an opponent there. That is what has been happening. (And I use my own shard as an example because I really am not trying to point the finger at anyone specifically. Chesapeake has actually suffered from much less drama and shenanigans than many others from what I can tell, thought that's not to say we've had none.)

    Most people have a single shard home, and running for governor SHOULD imply a commitment to the server you are running on. Therefore it should also require a commitment to that shard to choose the governors. The simplest, most obvious, and least able to easily be manipulated way to determine commitment to a shard is housing. Pretty much the first thing players do when they commit to a shard is place or acquire a house. It may not be perfect for the few players who actually play multiple shards, but I think it would be a massive improvement over the nonsense that's been taking place and would place the election power back in the hands of the players who will be most affected by each shard's elections.
    Minerva Foxglove likes this.
  38. Minerva Foxglove

    Minerva Foxglove Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Jun 19, 2008
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    Agree. We should try to get it fair for most people . And a minimum of griefing and cheating. If you have loads of accounts you still have the advantage to be able to vote many times on one candidate or more.. at one shard . Thats not bad.
    This with buying votes and trade with other shards.. Some say its politics..Atleast in my little corner of the world its not legal . People that do it get punished and fired. Elections even get declaired as not legal . I dont think its strange that people think its the way it should be, and react when they are getting griefed or lose to corrupted people and are told its politics and just like RL.. Its not accepted RL is it?
  39. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Feb 20, 2006
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    When I said 1 vote per your home shard per account should be the way it goes I meant it.
    Look at alot of the complaints at the influx of "Outsiders" who have been accused of throwing elections.
    It is quite consievable to have an influx of non-shard players ether make or travel in say a week or 2 before election sign up and start their part in this theory of election stealing.
    I say theory because I for one dont have the evidence in my hands but have it in multi facit/shard complaints on shard I have homes on.
    It's true that I have been asked even here on the forums to help stem one election with my vast accounts to stop one said takeover... I sent the requester to Mesanna if he had evidence of his claim.

    hmm.. let me give you who say keep it as it is a slice of what can happen...

    I have 47 active accounts... Let's say of the majority 5 have 7 character slots, 25 have 6 slots, the rest of them are 5 slots (17 if you need the math)
    So per shard thats 260 votes I alone can cast If I filled my list up to the brim of charcters...
    Enough to throw many small shard population elections out the window.
    Now add in the power of many groups of players with this same ability to muster this count that are hinted at doing just as the protesters are claiming is being done....
    Now do you see why I said it would be best for those elections to be linked to the owner of the accounts 1 house/shard?

    Everyone here yells about scripters but this is the very same thing in a voting venue.
    Why one would want to do so...idk. But there is at present a way to do so and cause havoc.

    It is sad to think people will lie, cheat, and steal even in a game election...
    Minerva Foxglove likes this.
  40. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
    Administrator Moderator Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Wiki Moderator Campaign Patron Event Coordinator

    Sep 14, 2012
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    That's enough votes to throw any shard but Atlantic if they are all spent on one stone. You can't spend them all on one stone though because you can only vote each account once per city per shard, but still.

    I do think it should be per character though because people's characters are all different. Though there seems to be some contention about even this, the governor system was, at least on Chesapeake, specifically stated by the EMs to be, first and foremost, a RP system. Most of my characters are different. I have a tamer, a t-hunter, and a crafter in Vesper, a resource gatherer (former crafter) in Minoc, a warrior in Britain, a mage in Moonglow, and a rogue... well, wherever she feels like and sometimes nowhere.

    Still, I'd rather have one vote per account than the way it's done now.

    People coming from other shards and affecting elections that don't affect them isn't "theory". It's fact, and if they don't change the way it's done before the next election, I suggest you go to one of the heavily contested elections (poke around on the various shard forums to find where they are) and just watch on the evening of the last voting day. It's wave after wave of newbie characters gated in for the sole purpose of voting. I'm sure someone somewhere has a screenshot.
  41. Pandora_CoD

    Pandora_CoD Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend CoD

    May 16, 2004
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    I'll happily and proudly admit that I myself have 12 accounts... my husband has 2... and many of my guildies past and present have had well over 20. There are many of us out there, but here is the thing. Of the 12 accounts I have, all hold houses on Catskills, many of which (well most of which) are open to the public and service the community of Catskills in one way or another. I don't think its a bad thing that we/they are allowed to vote. We certainly have established that "residency". I know you feel that's unfair, but if its used in this manner... I just do not think its unfair. But again I said, stipulate that they must establish "residency" ( in other words, have a house on that shard).

    Take my friend Bianca, she has 23 accounts. Her husband had like 15 or so. Armand has 17. I have 12. My husband has 2. Valis has 8. Merida has 4. Callie/Bre has 2. Morgasee has 2. right? Total that up. 85. That's only including senior leadership in my guild. Now.... my 12 have houses, my husband's 1 account has a house, Bianca has 12 houses, Bianca's husband no longer has houses, Armand has 5 houses, Valis has 5 houses, Merida has 2 houses, Morgie has 1 house, Callie has her 1 house. Total there... 39. That's certainly more reasonable in my opinion. Especially because the house accounts do provide services to the community --- like our tavern that has tavern nights for everyone 1x week, or RBG offices that host a sleuth of RBG-focused activities, our Malls, our Church (which hosts tons of weddings/funerals/christenings/etc.), our trade center that hosts in character market day, etc. etc. I feel those accounts rightfully earn their votes. 85 vs 39....

    I mean you yourself said you have multiple accounts as well, 7 or 8 or so. Why so many? Because you have houses on them more than likely, right? So tie your votes to your "residency"... are all your houses on Catskills? Then that is your resident shard. If not, then do you have a house on Chessy? If so, then you vote on Chessy on that account. Do you travel and play elsewhere? Sure... but you are a resident of the shard you have your house on. I do not think that's a huge trade off.
    Riyana likes this.
  42. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend The DarkOutlaws, TDO

    May 12, 2008
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    2 mil a week to me is steep for the casual player like me I'm not a power gamer. I need my resources so that is not a option. I was doing the rope thing til it stopped which is a shame when it could of been kept going by letting us go to the brig camps targeting them and taking them in to the town were your ya citizen to. I would fine this fun to do even if a make nothing doing it except town loyalty
    AppleJax and Riyana like this.
  43. Pandora_CoD

    Pandora_CoD Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend CoD

    May 16, 2004
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    Bottom line is this:

    1) Establish an account's residency as their "requirement" to vote. An account that has a house in Great Lakes would only be able to vote on Great Lakes. If they are a grandfathered account with multiple houses on varying shards, they are lucky enough to be able to chose the shard they can vote on PER election cycle; that should reset for election cycles. If you do not have a house on that account, you cannot vote. If you pick up and move shards, moving your house, your election rights should move with you to your new shard.

    2) You should be able to vote on your "resident shard" on all the characters of that account ONCE PER CITY (that should stay). So if my character on account "one" votes in Britain, no other characters on that account should be allowed to vote in Britain, but could vote in Minoc or Skara Brae.

    3) The $2 million a week cost for the trade deal is too much. You should a) reduce or eliminate that cost or b) add pay-per-use fee to the utilization of the buff that helps to fund the city treasury (as well as anyone buying a city banner, that should go into the city treasury as well).

    ^ This is the minimum that @Mesanna and @Kyronix should figure out how to do.
    Riyana likes this.
  44. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Crazed Zealot
    Governor Stratics Veteran Britain [BRIT]

    Sep 13, 2010
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    You can take the guardsman's ropes to the brigand fort north of the Skara/Brit/Yew crossroads and subdue then capture the raiders and return them to the city of your choice for loyalty gains.
    Riyana and Lady Michelle like this.
  45. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    May 12, 2004
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    I am sorry Pandora we just simply disagree.
    A persons real life financial ability to have multiple accounts shouldn't effect voting.
    If a person can only afford one account through your system he is effectively shut out of ever having a chance at being governor.
    It's not fair to him. I'm sorry if you don't see it that way, but not everyone can afford the multiple accounts. Housing is irrelevant.
    Lots of folks still have grandfathered housing on multiple shards.
  46. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
    Administrator Moderator Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Wiki Moderator Campaign Patron Event Coordinator

    Sep 14, 2012
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    You are correct--a person's real life financial ability to have multiple accounts shouldn't affect voting. It shouldn't affect your play at all... but it does in a number of ways both legal and illegal.

    But there's no way to fix that. People with multiple accounts are going to have the advantage no matter what. They do now! Except now they are disproportionately able to influence elections on EVERY SERVER, which gives these players exponentially more votes than anyone else. Tying voting to house ownership or to a single shard keeps that in check as well as giving the people affected most by each election the most say. Right now other shards have more say in your shard's election than the people who live there full time. That is problematic.

    Pandora's idea for the grandfathered housing issue is quite fair, I think. Or heck, let grandfathered accounts vote on all the shards they have houses on. I doubt that's a huge portion of the population anymore. It certainly won't create the influx of cross-shard newbies voting and running straight to the inn not to be heard from again for 3 months.

    I only had one account when I initially won my governorship when the system first came out. I was up against someone who had membership in a large alliance and (I believe) multiple accounts. At the time I had neither. A single person CAN win. They may have to campaign their butts off like I did or maybe start in a less popular city and prove themselves, but it can be done.

    But the single account argument is a red herring. A single person can't win a governorship now unless no one else runs or votes without backing from other people. Those people should live primarily on the shard in question, not jump over for quick vote then go back to Atlantic. That's not right.
    Pandora_CoD likes this.
  47. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    May 12, 2004
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    I respectfully disagree. The only way for the guy with the one account to beat anyone with the numbers Pandora has quoted is to make friends with people here, in game, and offshard. You shouldn't have to own a house to run for governor. That's obscene and unfair. You shouldn't dictate how someone else plays the game. On GL one of my characters is a homeless girl with a hole in her shoes. She joined the Royal Spies there, she lives out of the inn, and she lives off of whatever wage she can manage to get from the Royal Spy. Is she unworthy of governorship? She is a proud devotee to her superiors. She works hard, is honest, has made friends among the ranks.
    I don't WANT a house on this server. If I did, I would place one. Connecting to housing is silly.
    What of the shard I never play anymore, Drachenfels. I had a grandfathered house there for the longest time. Should I be able to run there even though I don't play there? No. Please no.
    I understand some folks are upset because people have their friends vote for them, but it's not something that anyone can't do. We are all free to make friends on other shards. Cross shard trade holiday gifts, meet new people, try new things.
    What we all cannot do is open a bunch of accounts, paying for them once every 3 months to keep the houses open, alternating so you only have to pay for a few each month. That's not being worthy of governorship, that's just being able to afford a lot of accounts and use the system to their advantage.
  48. Thom

    Thom Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    May 30, 2008
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    I honestly don't think Mesanna or Kyronix is going to do anything that ties the votes to residency or a shard. They pretty much said so in the meeting on Catskills when Pandora brought it up there. Perhaps instead of arguing more for a system that has already been shot down we could come up with something different. My personal opinion on the matter is that the one vote per shard rule should be removed (keeping the once per city rule), loyalty should slowly decay again, and item donations should no longer gain you loyalty above commended. This way people that play on multiple shards can still vote on the shards they play on, people are free to vote in the elections that interest their characters, and the influence of off shard vote trading is significantly reduced.
    Flutter likes this.
  49. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    May 12, 2004
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    Or even just have been active for 40 hours on the account before you are allowed to vote.
    I personally think the King himself should choose governors. (Maybe RNG Maybe not)
    We are not living in a democracy in UO. Voting is silly. The king should be choosing his court.
  50. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Jul 3, 2004
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    I said I was a little vague when I posted.

    Yes farming could be an issue because I forgot that UO is one of the very few online games ( and still famous for) that really doesn't punish cheaters and bots.

    Getting tickets as drops as loot doesn't mean they are on every corpse either. It has to work with the RNG. It still gives players on their home shards more of a chance to control their own elections since they play their home shard more. This also gives players who play multiple shards which call more than one shard home a voice on all the shards they do play.

    Sorry, but UO is a grind no matter how you look at it in most aspects of the game.

    Since you want to knock that idea down then why don't the devs let the EM of each shard choose a reagent for each city to run. After there 3 month term, the EM chooses another person to run the cities. Players can ask to be a reagent and it comes down to the EM choosing. Once a person has ran their term they can not use that account to be chosen again under a different character for that same city. This creates diversity in leadership.

    Yes I know some have multiple accounts and can still abuse the system but lets face it. You all are always look for away to find a flaw in every system. I could have 10 accounts , run for 4 cities on one shard if I wanted in the current system, and control them if I win and I am one person. The same can be said on what I just suggested. With politics, comes anarchy, and chaos runs a muck when the system fails.

    Nothing is perfect and my suggestions are far from perfect. My suggestions are what they are. Just suggestions. The idea is to come up with the best solution no matter how flawed it can viewed by another person. No idea/suggestion is stupid ( btw I am not implying you said it was stupid, just for discussion sake :) ), it the results from these suggestions from everybody's input is the best healthy solution.