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Trying to stay positive

Discussion in 'UHall' started by MalagAste, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Sage
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    Why don't you and others try sending all your negative feedback and bug reports using the actual methods set up by the developers? Why do you make us read them? Do you assume developers are going to find them here? Are we suppose to jump on your bandwagon? Do your posts help all those new players continue to want to play? Are we suppose to make the code changes? In my opinion, negative insulting posts like yours drive more players away from UO than anything a developer can code. Be part of the solution not part of the problem.
     
  2. transcendent

    transcendent Journeyman

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  3. Tyrath

    Tyrath Crazed Zealot
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    Still waiting on a email as instructed in the email to reset a PW, because the email with PW reset link only gives you a email telling you to email. Filing a simple bug report has evolved into a nightmare. AND YES THEY DO LOOK AT WHAT WE POST HERE :) Ummm what new players, I can't even remember the last time I saw a actual new player in Haven. So it it negative to speak the truth? Guessing you might be one of the select few that actually get good customer service :) While I often disagree with the way Malag words things, I can't find fault in the sentiment and even less with the frustration that with a whole lot of folks outside of the Special People. Bottom line I and everyone else pay for a service and expect reasonable access to that service as outlined in the TOS..... Like the rules of the TOS being enforced across the board and there not being blatant and obvious exceptions made for certain people. Equal customer service and problem resolution would be really neat as well. If there is a lot of negative it is because EA/BS has been hard at work creating it and helping it fester.
     
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  4. THP

    THP Always Present
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    @Blackie hit the nail on the head...unpunished 24/7 scripting and EM Events are killing/strangling this game

    New player - "Man, I made 1m in the dungeons this week, pretty cool"
    Old Timer - "Man, I've got a collection here worth millions, put together over 15 years! Pretty cool"
    Gold Famer - "Man, I did 2 EM events and my script gatherers have been running 24/7 but I didn't hit 12 plat this week, this sucks"

    New player and Old Timer - "WTF man, 12 plat in 1 week automatically?!!!, why am I bothering...I'm out"

    Rinse and repeat. More will leave soon, the scripts have been passed around freely this year and the bans have been quite sparse.
     
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  5. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    The ONLY reason it's "so difficult to catch" in UO is because nobody gives a **** about it. I've seen multiboxers on several occasions and it's ridiculously easy to tell when it's being done. When you have, at minimum, 4-5 players standing on the exact same tile, performing the exact same action (i.e. Armor Ignore), and casting the same spell(s), healing each other, etc...and did I mention they're ALL doing it in perfect synch? Chances are high that it's a multiboxer.

    If, during the hour that an EM event runs, a GM can't show up, it's on them. I've seen it at Yew Gate (Atl) too, and I'll admit THAT can be harder to catch.
     
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  6. Slayvite

    Slayvite Babbling Loonie
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    I thought we answered the multi-boxing question in the big thread months ago.
    Multi-boxing say 5 chars is 5 accounts....5 subscriptions! count them 5 v's your 1.
    This is why NOTHING will ever be done to stop multi-boxing, they pay more than the average UO player.

    UO is all about the Green these days.

    I also find it funny that they are getting Garriott and Starr to come "talk" about UO......again...
    Do you really think they don't see how vulnerable UO has become and they aren't gonna try a quick "raid" on UO players be promoting there new version of UO??? (SotA)
    Why you would ever bring the biggest threat to UO into your "party" just beggers belief.
    It is very clear that while Mesanna may be the boss.....she clearly isn't a good manager, not all people are and it's not a bad thing.
    Hell, she already forgot they were ment to be building that tool for castle redesigns and she only told us about it a month earlier....ready for the Anniversary? I think not.
     
  7. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Doesn't do a lick of good... I've sent them... over and over and over... even went to TC with Kyronix to try to "fix" the problem with looting in the EC... but the BIGGEST problem is that they refuse to admit there is a problem... Rather like the fact that it takes you over a min in the EC to actually die... meanwhile your screen is all locked up as it waits to turn the world to gray..... and you wait, and wait and wait.... despite how many times this is reported, brought up at M&G's and everything else the problem still exists since they revamped the UI ages ago... same with the looting issue... Which I've been told is "fixed" though obviously it isn't...

    I've posted about Nu'Jelm, talked to the DEVs about sent visual evidence of it.... sent pics of the shorelines, posted pics of the shorelines... etc... falls on deaf ears...

    I've even offered "solutions" that I guarantee will work for the Multi-boxing problem... don't ban them..... Just throw them in jail for the duration of the event.... Send them a kind you decide what character your taking and take ONE or you can stay here in Jail... It isn't rocket science to pick the multiboxers... it doesn't take any special equipment or anything ..... ONE EYEBALL will do .... everyone is born with 2 generally ..... just because some refuse to use theirs we all should suffer??? Send GM's to Events with Drops... have them hidden and pick the boxers out and put them in jail... Do this repeatedly and they will take the hint and knock it off... They will get tired of missing out on any chance at a drop and will do like the rest of us and just take ONE character there. It really isn't that difficult to spot a boxer... You don't need to be able to say what they were using just simply saying you observed them boxing is fine... The ToS don't say "We will ban you if we can say for sure what your using..." No they say they reserve the right to ban you ... they own UO..... etc... no where does it say they have to pinpoint what cheating 3rd party program your running and they shouldn't have to prove your cheating all they need to do is look and see the actions speak for themselves.... NO ONE can run 3-6 characters and move them in unison, cast spells in unison, and target things in unison.... without CHEATING. It isn't physically possible... even if you had long arms, long fingers and amazing toes and co-ordination.... you could NOT do that. Again not rocket science a freaking 6 year old can spot them.
     
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  8. Nonel

    Nonel Sage
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    That's what happened at the 15th aniv. party. Complete with marketing on the walls.
     
  9. Slayvite

    Slayvite Babbling Loonie
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    Oh it will be much worse this year i'm sure, SotA launches in the Autumn so they will be on a big propaganda drive.......again though, just proves the sort of management skills being shown......
     
  10. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    This thread is misleadingly named. This isn't focusing on the positive at all.

    There are still positives in the game, which is easy to lose sight of sometimes when so much of what you love the most is continually chipped away at. I'm not an optimistic person by nature (I'm sure @Larisa could tell you about our conversations about the fullness of the glass), and I am aggravated as hell about some of the things that have gone on and continue to go on with this game--but there are still things I enjoy in it. There must be things you still enjoy too, or you wouldn't still be here.

    So what do I still enjoy? Why am I still playing UO? Top 3:

    -RP and player-driven stories/community
    -well-done EM events that don't focus on or center a drop
    -new content: Eodon has some pretty creative uses of old mechanics, and I've actually had a reason to go out and tame and play with pets

    Of course it's easy to find issues with all three items above and there are absolutely plenty of legit complaints to be made, but the fact is I still log in and play and even enjoy. I'm probably 75% moved to a different shard--a change of scenery may have helped, and I've rediscovered some things in and about the game that I'd forgotten as an established player on my shard. History can also be baggage. Your mileage may vary. If you're trying to stay positive though, take it from a pessimist: constantly hammering on the negative isn't going to get you to a positive place. I actually agree with most, maybe all of your criticisms--but is this thread actually trying to stay positive or reiterating the negative?

    So I challenge you all: WITHOUT caveat and WITHOUT tearing apart anyone else's (or your own) reasons/likes, what is something you enjoy in UO? Why are you still here?
     
  11. Slayvite

    Slayvite Babbling Loonie
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    Top 3?....erm ok,

    1, I'm a natural "gatherer" char and love open world harvesting.
    2, I love not being "rail roaded" into a specific set of skills (ie, your a mage but in UO you can take up macing if you so desire)
    3, i've been here far too long to just quit, they will probably have to close the servers first.

    There, 3 reasons and no negative.......my god that was hard ;)
     
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  12. Tyrath

    Tyrath Crazed Zealot
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    I still enjoy doing the old content like mining, crafting and have been a Solen/Zoogie addict since LBR brought bags of sending and powder of translocation to the world. I have fun doing the renowned critters in the abyss and occasionally getting one of their spec drops, and overall have very much enjoyed pub 97. Even did a few champ spawns last night to start building my PS stock back up a bit and had a good laugh when two people booked out of the spawn as soon as they saw me......... Guess they didn't get the memo I am harmless :) Despite the problems I still find more that I enjoy about UO than I don't and most of it tends to be from the older content.

    Sooo top 3
    #1 Zoogie related activities.
    #2 Mining
    #3 The abyss renowned critters
     
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  13. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Grand Inquisitor
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    A few friends that are left ingame. (most are gone now)

    The occasional rat spawn.

    It's a habit.
     
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  14. Larisa

    Larisa Publishing Manager, Stratics Leadership Team
    Editor Reporter Moderator Professional Stratics Veteran Wiki Moderator Stratics Legend Editor Fallen Lords

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    Well since @Riyana tagged me..yes I am a glass half full person...she is NOT! ;) But that's a good thing...we work well off each other I think :)

    Why I love this game?

    I still get excited when I log in....Oh I forgot I had green thorns growing on Siege...time to go gather and train up some silly pets on vorpal bunnies!

    Hmm wonder what cool color seeds I'll get from my rose rug this week? Need more pretty plants! Oh hey my guildies are wanting to spawn..lets go! Doing the roof? Let me grab my awesomely trained up Cu instead of my big flappy GD! Pull out my blood fox just to hear the cute noises it makes! ;)

    Run to the underworld to see if I can find all the Stygian Drake colors..I still only have one! Hey you got some maps you wanna do? I LOVE Treasure Hunting...good for pet training too! Need more maps? Lets go kill some miasma...oh crap a reptalon is coming....no problem my newly trained pets eat both for lunch!

    Should we go key up some peerless? Grab some snake-charming flutes....stealthers aren't just for spying on spawns! Oh wait lets do Exodus....need more compassion sage anyway!

    Tired of hunting? I need to work on my house anyway....it's a mess and I can't find a thing! Too overwhelming? (Which is what my castle is...good lord I am a packrat!) I still have to finish my luna box house....over 800 holiday gift boxes to display proudly!

    I could go on and on and on and on.......so yes..the glass is half full...for me anyway :)
     
  15. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Half-full, Half-Empty, doesn't matter it just means there's room for the scotch.
     
  16. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Ok... Top three:

    1. Friends. Yep that's the main reason I'm still here... Wonderful friends that I enjoy spending time with...
    2. RP When and where I can get it and this includes following the stories of the EM's and thank the Gods that GL's is blessed with some pretty awesome EM's... Malachi is amazing at stories and adventures and puzzles and Elizabella is tons of fun and super.
    3. Taming, Fishing, T-Hunting, skill training (Yeah glutten I know) ... all fun, but I enjoy collecting. And I don't mean getting "rares" I give a crap about most items from EM Events (Save those from GLs especially where I really enjoyed the event) and such at this point it's just rehued, rehashed, stuffs (Though I admit I do like spiders!), I'm talking about the AoS boots I collect with names of players some that really crack me up, Roses both AoS and Whispering... I enjoy them... mostly the ones from players I remember from ages ago... I enjoy my massive collection of 100% weapons... and while yes I could use reforging or whatever to craft any that I'm missing I prefer to "discover" them either through shopping or from loot... I'm always super excited to bring a new one home... I slowly work on having a full set of some things... like the Reindeer or the Urns/swords from ages ago... Bells... Things like that I enjoy... I like getting the rare colored gift things, plants, flowers, boxes, etc...
     
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  17. ShriNayne

    ShriNayne Seasoned Veteran

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    1 Guild hunts/chatting with guildies
    2 SOS
    3 T-hunts
    4 Player run events when we can get them! :D
     
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  18. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Inquisitor
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    First I enjoyed doing the BODs that work. Luckily you can get the rewards even though many BODs dont work.

    Since the pet revamp came out I have been training pets almost non stop.

    LS has a great Community event creator and EM Falcon does what she can. She also has themed her events towards tamers by taking us on treasure hunts to get the new cold drakes and dragons.

    I got a drop at the last event so I sold it to buy pet scrolls!!
     
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  19. Fridgster

    Fridgster Slightly Crazed
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    *Casually walks in and drinks everyones half full and half empty glasses then strolls off rather tipsy*
     
  20. Slayvite

    Slayvite Babbling Loonie
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    *turns back around and sees empty glass*
    "Hey!! Who emptied my Urine sample? I needed that to prove i wasn't cheating!"
     
  21. Fridgster

    Fridgster Slightly Crazed
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    Ewww funny but ewww
     
  22. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
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    It's not strange. If you haven't noticed by now, Denton is the leader of Broadsword, and his pet project going into this endeavor always was and will be Daoc. Look at the two games side by side. Daoc gets more supports, and even marketing, social media presence, It has a bigger team.
    UO and Daoc were penciled in for cancellation from EA and in a last ditch bid to save Daoc Denton was able to form Broadsword and save his game, also saving UO in the process, But now you see that Daoc is clearly getting the majority of Broadsword's time and resources while UO sits on borderline maintenance mode.

    Daoc still gets real and new meaningful content. All UO seems to get are horrible revamps no one wants or asked for [Doom is RUINED now, all they had to do was make a second gauntlet area for the new stuff and leave the old alone...] Or relatively minor things like the pet revamp. Gone are the days of large publishes with content for all play styles. I am glad UO is still around but I feel as if its being used as a funding vehicle for Daoc more at this point than anything.
     
  23. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
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    I have had this feeling a long time, Dot, that UO is being used as a vehicle to fund production of Daoc. Its stupid how clearly one game seems to be getting the majority of Broadsword's resources.
     
  24. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    I haven't logged in for some time, no energy or drive to do so. In light of this thread I felt it was time to at least put in my two cents.

    Regarding multiboxing, this was brought to Mesannas attention way back around 2011-2012. One of the people I rares collected with sent her a detailed description of what was going on and how it was done. There was no mention of a physical switch, but rather of two programs being used simultaneously to allow several accounts to mesh together under the control of one keyboard. Again, no mention of a physical switch was EVER mentioned. I considered using the same setup at the time, but was told Mesanna stated this setup was illegal to use.

    Here we are 6 years on, the same person still uses it with two computers and 10 clients. Still no physical switch...but now her stance on this subject has changed...with blame for nothing being done on a non existence switch....

    Lastly, without saying any names...some of the most outspoken members of this community still use it or often offer support for those who do...which may or may not include staff....

    How the hell else do any of you think clops was able to get away with doing what he did for so long?

    Best advice to all of you, get your damn heads out of the sand...
     
  25. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I took off my Rose Colored Glasses about 6 years ago... since then I've been extremely outspoken on things... for all the good it does. Feel like I'm barking up a tree and getting no where.

    It's rather like standing there watching someone shoplift and bully people, threaten them and start a fire in your favorite place and all the police and fire fighters just stand there and watch them..... LAUGHING... that's kinda how it feels.
     
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  26. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
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    I rarely post on these forums because the stratics community over the years kept accepting everything the devs did as wonderful despite their mediocre actions leading the game down the path it is on today. I think the time I stopped actively posting was when the devs idea of new content became releasing things in new colors instead of a major new dungeon. I got so tired of the cheerleaders not holding the devs to task or accountable for medicore additions to the game when they could ask and demand for so much more.
    So to add to your analogy, its like the building is on fire, the police and firefighters have been called and they are standing and laughing about it, while maybe throwing a bottle of water here and there[ not too much mind you they like to make you grind for it ], And the stratics cheerleaders will still tell them what an amazing job they are doing, leading to more of the same, business as usual approach we've all come to expect.
     
  27. Kirthag

    Kirthag Former Stratics Publisher
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    3 "GOOD"
    1 - decoing buildings
    2 - customizing castles
    3 - helping youngins... yes, they are around (despite what some of you think, NEW PEOPLE ARE COMING) I love making them training suits, weapons and supplying them with stuffs they need. have a reason for my crafting obsession. and once they get the hang of things and some gold in their banks, they can go to the other crafters and get better suits. I just get them started.

    3 "BAD"
    1 - Global chat - ugh
    2 - compounded dungeons/quests
    3 - imbuing... gawds how I hate that

    overall peeve
    No Official Marketing to the Masses, not even cheapo ad banners
     
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  28. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Slightly Crazed
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    An interesting read. This game is fubar'd beyond the point of redemption. Its been a couple of months since I had a live account (which has been on and off over the last 5 years) and I think today of all days I can say with absolute certainty that after over 17 and a half years, I will never log into UO again.

    The game is a debacle, the community is toxic, the playerbase are simply addicts, the dev team incompetent and the owners contemptuous of its paying customers.

    Im off to play my new UO. Albion Online servers go live in 2 hours. I'll join my quarter of a million new playmates over there and leave the UO "community" to self implode even further.

    Have fun and try not to take it too badly when they pull the plug.

    Craftsman checking out for the final time for something far far better than this turdfest.
     
  29. petemage

    petemage Lore Keeper

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    I think its also along those lines of Denton knowing how to make his job as a lead.

    While our lead rather cares about dyeing masks with her name on it *shrugs* I'm sure those masks make a fanboy happy, but for everyone else it's just wasted time on the producer's behalf.

    Plus I can pretty much imagine how upstream peers at EA or BS are fed up with Mesanna's style of managing as well, since she has proven multiple times she can't make a project beyond her responsibility happen (account management, origin store issues, steam, etc.).
     
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  30. Swordsman

    Swordsman Journeyman
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    So, you are no longer a uo player.
     
  31. Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS

    Governor

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    Infront of a court of law EA would have to proof what Programme was used or they would have to fork out a lot of money in a law suit.... You cannot accuse someone without proof, yeah I get the 6 chars moving at teh same time, but the solution is as easy to say, I had 5 friends with me, try to disprove that now.... and then EA would have to pay loads out as they would lose. I get you are angry and tired, as many other players are, but saying things that dont add up or that havent been fully thought is just dust in the air.
     
  32. petemage

    petemage Lore Keeper

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    :facepalm:

    What kind of law would they violate if they ban cheaters?

    You know, other games ban cheaters. They just do it. There is no lawsuits over that. Nobody has to proof ****. It's not the real world and their is a thing called ToS that sets the rules for this virtual world. Stop living in a bubble.

    And once more: Stop finding cheap excuses!
     
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  33. Lore

    Lore Journeyman

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    Actually, again Devil's Advocate here, while you're right that no current case exists... It wouldn't be all that impossible to have a ToS disregarded in court. Frivolous Lawsuits have been laughed at in the media because corporations ran a campaign against them. Even paying protestors to make fun of people like the 79 year old woman that had 3rd degree burns on her genitals from coffee... a lawsuit she won by the way...

    The fact is, money is real, TOS isn't. If courts become more open to the fact that you spend real money and real time on a game that the game is in fact yours after the creator has given you rights to play it wouldn't be that far fetched to win a lawsuit for being banned without proof of wrongdoing. I have a feeling this day is coming as the population ages and more gamers age.

    EDIT: It doesn't have to be a law to prove damages. There are criminal and civil cases.
     
  34. petemage

    petemage Lore Keeper

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    Forum-lawyers :rolleyes: How about instead of citing that one silly lawsuit that went through, citing that hundreds of silly lawsuits that don't get through. It is utterly far-fetched, as you already noticed there is little to none of those lawsuits. It's only excuses for their choice to not do anything. Dot nailed it a couple posts above.

    But well, I know, tomorrow everything is gonna change. Sure.

    It's just a bit mind-boggling to which lengths some people here spin this totally hypothetical excuses.
     
    #84 petemage, Jul 17, 2017 at 9:01 AM
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 9:07 AM
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  35. Lore

    Lore Journeyman

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    It only seems like a "Silly" lawsuit to you because of ignorance on what really happened. You should look it and many others of these "silly" lawsuits up.
     
  36. petemage

    petemage Lore Keeper

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    Nah, it's also a cultural thing. I live in Europe and the kind of common sense we have over here is that coffee is for drinking and not for your genitals. I see it was an accident by the old woman, but still we don't blame the coffee for being hot.

    Anyway, that was in 1994. Maybe we can find a case from 17th century France as well.
     
  37. ShriNayne

    ShriNayne Seasoned Veteran

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    As I've said before, unfortunately it isn't a crime to be stupid, but people do need to take responsibility for their own actions.
    Since they can ban anyone they like at any time for whatever reason they see fit, it is of course their game, I really don't see how anyone banned for cheating could sue them. The reason they don't ban people is simple, they don't want to lose the accounts. :(
     
  38. Lore

    Lore Journeyman

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    Well... for your common sense... coffee is usually about 140 degrees Fahrenheit. There are more current cases. This is an example that is widely destroyed by corporations to make other lawsuits seem unwinnable. Here in the US all you need is to prove damages in a Civil Case. Broadsword would have to travel to the place the lawsuit was filed. They would have to pay attornies to fight for them. And they COULD lose. A TOS is not a legal document. While Broadsword does have intellectual rights they cannot take someone's money without good cause. I'm not saying it's 100%, but it would cost Broadsword money. And even a regular guy on the street can file for civil damages without a lawyer.

    All a civil lawyer would have to argue is that their client paid money in good faith to play Broadsword's intellectual property. Broadsword does have a terms of service that is unavoidable to play the product. A term of service does not remove your right to commerce. Broadsword further removed their ability to play the intellectual property without providing the compensation back.

    Cases aren't as popularized as the McDonalds one because they are usually settled with Non-Disclosure agreements. But they are out there. Liebeck tried to settle outside of court as well, but McDonalds thought it would be cheaper to fight it in court with a 79 year old woman.

    During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700 claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebecks. This history documented McDonalds' knowledge about the extent and nature of this hazard.

    McDonalds also said during discovery that, based on a consultants advice, it held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees fahrenheit to maintain optimum taste. He admitted that he had not evaluated the safety ramifications at this temperature. Other establishments sell coffee at substantially lower temperatures, and coffee served at home is generally 135 to 140 degrees.

    Further, McDonalds' quality assurance manager testified that the company actively enforces a requirement that coffee be held in the pot at 185 degrees, plus or minus five degrees. He also testified that a burn hazard exists with any food substance served at 140 degrees or above, and that McDonalds coffee, at the temperature at which it was poured into styrofoam cups, was not fit for consumption because it would burn the mouth and throat. The quality assurance manager admitted that burns would occur, but testified that McDonalds had no intention of reducing the "holding temperature" of its coffee.

    The parties eventually entered into a secret settlement which has never been revealed to the public, despite the fact that this was a public case, litigated in public and subjected to extensive media reporting. Such secret settlements, after public trials, should not be condoned.

    EDIT: Here's a video of a guy that sued Sony and won. False Advertising on the PS Vita. They bought into something that was a false promise. Hope this video from this month is current enough for you Europeans.
     
    #88 Lore, Jul 17, 2017 at 10:09 AM
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 10:18 AM
  39. petemage

    petemage Lore Keeper

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    It's so clear to you BS would be in trouble, still none has ever made a penny out of it. Everyone that was ever banned is sitting on a goldmine and just hasn't realized yet, I guess.

    I'll leave it at "forum-lawyers".
     
  40. Lore

    Lore Journeyman

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    Is this supposed to be an insult? I'm not insulted by ignorant people. LOL
     
  41. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
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    A good way to get some answers from Mesanna will be to all attend the 20th party and ask some "hard" questions at the Q and A session. I know I have a few already that I can't wait to see how she responds!
     
  42. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Grand Inquisitor
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    She's more politician than producer...be interesting to hear how she tap dances around some of the questions.
     
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  43. Lore

    Lore Journeyman

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    I agree, but you don't have to be rich in the US to file a civil lawsuit. You can file a lawsuit and post on a gamer forum and have others file with you. It's not uncommon to have lawsuits with multiple people complaining against one corporation. Judges don't expect lawyer level legal paperwork when filing a civil lawsuit.

    Lets play this situation out as realistic as possible.

    Player A buys Broadsword's product.
    Player A is forced to sign TOS after buying Broadsword's product to play what he paid for already.
    Player A plays for a while and pays a subscription fee.
    Broadsword deems Player A a cheater and bans them. Sends them a form letter saying they are banned for a general reason.
    Player A is upset about the loss and emails Broadsword for a refund on what he spent on the game and the current subscription.
    Broadsword ignores the request or replies with another form letter.
    Player A does research and finds multiple video gaming forums with others that have been banned.
    Player A sends a letter to the legal Contact information on Broadsword's website with research that seems relevant. Asks for refund again.
    Broadsword declines the refund or doesn't respond in a month.
    Player A looks up how to file a civil damages lawsuit for his refund.
    Player A posts his intentions on the gaming forums and has Player B and Player C join him in the lawsuit.
    Player A files the lawsuit at his local courthouse for about $50 at most. He provides the courthouse with the Legal address of Broadsword and mails them a copy of the lawsuit.
    Player A is assigned a court date.
    Broadsword receives a lawsuit that they have to respond to. They can either ask for more time to fact hunt, they can file for a change in location, or they can proceed with the date.
    Player A can demonstrate that he and his two other players make significantly lower income than Broadsword ( a company ) so Broadsword has to hear the case in their location.
    Broadsword pays a lawyer to represent them at the court date and they provide all the research they've gathered.
    Player A (with B and C potentially but not required) show up to court and meet with the lawyer and judge.
    Judge will ask if Player A wants to proceed without a lawyer and Player A says yes.
    Judge will listen for facts and if those facts are argued by the other party.
    Player A will state they bought the game in good faith and paid a subscription. They may or may not have billing records. Broadsword will of course agree that player paid because it's easy to prove.
    Broadsword will explain why they banned the player. The player will argue because this is not easy to prove.
    Broadsword will say it's their intellectual property and bring up the TOS.
    The judge will determine if the TOS matters (Spoiler: It doesn't in the US for a lot of the verbiage.) and if Broadsword proved cheating was occurring.
    If the player wins the Judge will give him a settlement verdict of the cost of the game and month subscription.
    If Broadsword wins they still lose because they have to pay the attorney more than the settlement.
     
  44. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Grand Inquisitor
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    One thing to remember-the difference between criminal and civil

    Criminal suit must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt

    Civil suit can be won by a "preponderence of the evidence" it's much more lax than criminal
     
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  45. petemage

    petemage Lore Keeper

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    No, why should I insult you. I'm just wondering why nobody started a lawsuit, if it's supposedly that easy to get compensated for being banned. I'm not a lawyer nor a judge, and I doubt you are. That's all ;)

    But while you are defending the cheaters, people are closing accounts left and right. Sounds about very healthy for the game. Please go on and defend them :D

    Also, many people suggested to just jail the offenders, so actually they don't have to get banned but rather quit for themselves. But I'm sure you will spin another story how that is as well some serious thing.
     
    #95 petemage, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:19 PM
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 1:30 PM
  46. Lore

    Lore Journeyman

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    Okay. I'm glad we agree that people can sue a company and win, that the McDonalds lawsuit wasn't silly, and that you're final thought on it is that neither of us is a lawyer. The next time someone brings up a grievance maybe you'll be more openminded to the fact that they spent real money to do something and when they are prevented from doing it they have a civil damages case in the US. In whatever European country you're from this may not be the case.
     
  47. petemage

    petemage Lore Keeper

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    Nah, it's still silly to burn your genitals with hot coffee and blame the company who sold the coffee. Don't think we agree there ;)

    Good luck with your hypothetical lawsuit.
     
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  48. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    You don't get it, the proof was provided YEARS ago, descriptively detailed in stating what was being done, how it was being done, and with what programs. I still have a CC of that email all these years later Mesanna...I am beginning to think I should forward it to EA....
     
  49. Deraj

    Deraj Sage
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    Say what you will about UO and the devs. But the UO community, or at least the community here on Stratics, needs some self-reflection and criticism as well.

    It's been 20 years and here we are with a small team and a small community. UO is what it is now. It's not perfect, and never will be. It will certainly never be the game I wish it would be. I've made peace with that and so should everyone else here. This does not mean the updates are above criticism. If an update is flawed, we should criticize it in a civilized way. If there is an aspect of the game we think should be looked at, we should absolutely let the devs know, and go back to focusing on the parts of the game we enjoy the most. I'm not saying we should be cheer leaders or should give up hope on seeing solid improvements, but the personal attacks, calling the devs incompetent, saying they don't care, threatening to close accounts and waving your money around like the most petulant, obnoxious kind of customer there is does not work. These things only serve to undermine otherwise valid and genuine feedback. It doesn't work.

    Whatever it is that we are doing here on this forum isn't working. I wish there was a better way for the users here to collectively channel our feedback in a more useful way, but I am reluctant to think it is possible with the levels of negativity we see around here.
     
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  50. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Inquisitor
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    I only have to play one time a day. I could stop if I wanted to.
     
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