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NEWS [UO.Com] Combat Changes Update on TC1

Discussion in 'UHall' started by UO News, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. PaithanTheElf

    PaithanTheElf Lore Keeper
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    lol. Umm. no it does change the fact. No one would use them if they did 50 a tick. Not sure where you come up with this.
     
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  2. OREOGL

    OREOGL Crazed Zealot
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    20 damage on a trapped box?

    Interesting but I'm torn. Wouldn't this give mages more incentive to spam para?

    And we have been talking about adding more template diversity but are shoehorning people into resists.

    Seems contradictory to me.

    I guess on the other hand it's give necro mages a buff to spam EO para.

    Will have to think about this more.
     
  3. randy

    randy Journeyman

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    I have videos of you losing with 15 people. You don't even pvp why do you care about changes? It won't get you to fight anyone outside of some random spawners.
     
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  4. Aeyko

    Aeyko Lore Keeper

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    And that right there is the quote of the day. GG
     
  5. drcossack

    drcossack Crazed Zealot
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    I said AVERAGED. Meaning there were more people, but not very often, especially with the core group. Not rocket science.

    And I don't pvp? Huh? Why, because I don't spend all my time at Yew Gate like you do? It was boring and lame a decade ago...and it still is. I just fought elsewhere, at places you never went to.

    Last I checked, pvp stood for "player vs player", and since I fought other players on a regular basis, not sure how you can POSSIBLY say I don't pvp.
     
    #405 drcossack, Dec 16, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
  6. PaithanTheElf

    PaithanTheElf Lore Keeper
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    There should most certainly be a penalty for getting a free skill by dropping resist. And mages already do para spam. The problem is that it does NOTHING because boxes do so little.
     
  7. cazador

    cazador Grand Inquisitor
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    Not really...the macro only goes off when poisoned. With Bushido and pots..the game is ok easy. Plus smoke bombs stealth invis earrings and tele rings..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. OREOGL

    OREOGL Crazed Zealot
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    Arguably spamming para should do nothing or that's all pvp will become.

    I could see adding a damage tweak but 20 seems excessive.
     
  9. leet

    leet Certifiable

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    They would have to make a new item considering trap boxes do a range to begin with and the damage level is based off tinkering skill.

    Trapped pouch unlimited uses.
    20 damage - 1 point per 10 points of resist down to 8 damage.

    Make it insurable possibly.

    But tbh idk if its worth the change
     
  10. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    If I had room on my template for Resist I wouldn't need to carry a silly box anyway.
     
  11. drcossack

    drcossack Crazed Zealot
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    But you don't pvp. It's not necessary in a pvm setting unless you're fighting certain monsters, in particular the ones that can use Blood Oath.
     
  12. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Nope got sick of trying to compete with cheaters using gimplates and speed hacks and countless other things to cheat.

    And actually there are a large number of mobs that para gank...
     
  13. drcossack

    drcossack Crazed Zealot
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    The AI is also stupid and won't wait to sync dump you after it paralyzes you. They'll just cast the next spell the game decides to use and break it. Only way you'll die is if a bunch of things are casting on you at once...but that can happen to you with resist too.
     
  14. leet

    leet Certifiable

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    What do you mean?

    How would you break weapon para/ nerve strike/ omen para/ run through para fields?
     
  15. Cutter

    Cutter Visitor
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    How did what initially started as a debate over nova potions end up on trapped boxes?
     
  16. randy

    randy Journeyman

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    Where do you and warshak pvp at? I'd like to start going there to fight you guys.
     
    leet likes this.
  17. leet

    leet Certifiable

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    Yeah! Me too please tell us (we know its not lake superior anymore after what happened last time )
     
  18. PaithanTheElf

    PaithanTheElf Lore Keeper
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    Spamming para does absolutely nothing... if you have resist.
     
  19. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    Yeah it has gone way off topic
     
  20. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Certifiable

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    @Bleak If novas are staying with a timer and a warning can we at least compromise with it going off on the current tile of the user rather than where it was used at? This would give the 3 people arguing about it being instant and unavoidable a solution while allowing the rest of us a chance to continue using it as close to how we currently do.
     
  21. OREOGL

    OREOGL Crazed Zealot
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    It does with evil omen....
     
  22. OREOGL

    OREOGL Crazed Zealot
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    Much like most pvp topics,
    Someone interjects something stupid and we are left to defend against it.
     
  23. cazador

    cazador Grand Inquisitor
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    It's not necessarily "stupid" the idea of an infinite break para box is stupid. But I digress, it's been this way for some time. All I said was it needed to be more balanced that's all. It negates an entire skill with 0 investment.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  24. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I hate to agree with Virem on anything. I fear that there is a risk that the devs may be taking their eye off the ball and trying to do too much with these changes.

    As I see it, there are two problems:

    1. Archers with 10 p suits.
    2. Parry mages.

    Fix those two things and then see what happens. We don't need changes to supernovas, parry in general, melee masteries, and so on, and so on.

    1. Increase the cost on moving shot from 20 to 25, tweak the hci penalty.
    2. Introduce a stat cap of 150 for mana and stamina to match the hp cap, 170 mana for elves.
    3. Make parry not work with wrestle.
    4. Stop. See how that works.
     
  25. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    And as far as I am concerned, novas aren't a problem. They are extremely situational, but generally situational is a good thing, because it makes room for the chess match that makes pvp fun. And if you nerf supernovas you take the risk of completely killing vvv because they are one of the few reasons why most pvp'rs do anything at all with vvv. And this is coming from someone who never uses supernovas, but has them used against his characters all the time.
     
  26. Legendary Rick

    Legendary Rick Seasoned Veteran
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    this is the dumbest post ive seen so far. people like you need to stay out of these threads cause you have no idea wtf your talking about.
     
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  27. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Stratics Legend
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    And how do you propose to make this PvP only and not overflow into PvM?
     
  28. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    It'll make managing mana a bit more of a challenge, but pvm magery is mostly about how fast you regenerate mana, not your mana cap.

    And one other thing that would serve to even the playing field even more, lower player character movent caps by about 10%. That would allow a lot more players to move at the movement caps and reduce the extreme advantage that players like me, who move very well in game, have.
     
  29. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    When the weapons swing speeds for the weapons in UO were originally set, 210 stam suits with 60 ssi didn't exist. 210 stam suits with 60 ssi are basically breaking the original design intention of the entire weapons combat system. Even after AoS the combat system was not designed to account for the possibility that suits could be created with every possible stat capped out. The primary reason why archers are broken right now, is because of the crazy suits you can build with legendaries.
     
  30. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Stratics Legend
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    So you want to slow players dawn but not the AIs, that is all well and good for I guess you PvPers but would totally suck for the Majority of the player base. CAPPING Mana and Stam is so whatever for the PvMers.
     
  31. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Stratics Legend
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    None of this **** existed pre Age of **** so I guess your solution is to do away with everything, hell Tram or any other land wasn't in the original design too so what we get rid of them too. You can not use the original design as a reason. You can not reduce CAPS to try and balance PvP without it severely bleeding over into PvM so now I guess we demand that UO balance PvM because of the **** they did to try and balance PvP.
     
  32. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Well, imo sampires could use a whack with the nerf bat. It's not healthy for pvm to have one template dominating as sampires have for the past very long while. PvM could seriously do with some changes to encourage diversity in templates.

    And yes, I think you can clearly look back at original design intentions for some guidance on how to balance game play. When the original movement rates of mobs were coded, player characters were moving nowhere near as well in game as they are now. I think slowing characters down a bit would make pvm more interesting and challenging than it currently is.

    I don't know of any other computer game where the mobs move on average so much slower than player characters. I remember when silver serpents were a terror because they moved so freaking fast. But it actually added to the fun of fighting them. Now movement vs. mobs is a big fat "meh..." Even the fastest mobs are so slow that unless you have half the planet streaming movies on your lan, getting away from them is laughably easy...
     
  33. Fridgster

    Fridgster Babbling Loonie
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    Won't comment on any of the other... points of interest however number 2 is um well... number 2. It would also cause enough frustration with the pvm player base that the game would experience a mass loss of players. I really don't see that comment as being even remotely thought out.
     
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  34. OREOGL

    OREOGL Crazed Zealot
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    I wasn't actually referring to you.

    Until there's a presentable idea I don't see the need to call fire.
     
  35. cazador

    cazador Grand Inquisitor
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    No I know lol. Alright, I'm just trying to get a semi consensus. Do you think trapped boxes are ok and ok and balanced? If so why? Just because it's been that way. Just try to see if from the opposite view point. I personally like being able to just spam a box and confidence. That's it balanced though lol


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  36. PaithanTheElf

    PaithanTheElf Lore Keeper
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    That's two spells and very easy to avoid a "spam"
     
  37. Kiss Of Death

    Kiss Of Death Crazed Zealot
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    Getting nausea when I see the same 2 bad players who cry about t chest.

    P.s. Remove 60 tactics requirement!!!
     
  38. Kiss Of Death

    Kiss Of Death Crazed Zealot
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    We need minor changes, this thread is nonsense now tbh
     
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  39. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Stratics Legend
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    THIS
    and one at a time so it can be thoroughly tested before it even gets close to going to a prodo shard
     
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  40. Kiss Of Death

    Kiss Of Death Crazed Zealot
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    1. REMOVE REMOVE REMOVE the 60 tactics requirements !! it was so good some days ago the new change...60 tactics makes no sense!!
    2. REMOVE the ssi change! you already fixed the PvP issues by making the moving shots do PHYS DMG!!!
    3. REMOVE the possibility to HAVE NINJA + WRESTLING + CHIV at 4/6. You should LET players have TWO of these at 4 FC not all THREE together. There must be a weakness. So if you get footed you cannot go in animal form for example, or if you get footed and you can go in ninja form but you can be disarmed at least .... all the three skills TOGETHER, at 4 FC is non sense.
     
  41. cazador

    cazador Grand Inquisitor
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    Why is every single thread I see you post in somehow trying to keep your crutches..interesting..you can call people "bad" because even though I use and abuse trapped boxes as much as the next guy. Arguing that they are "balanced" is laughable. Interestingly enough I don't need 4/6 chiv or Resist on my deathstriker to be virtually un-killable. I use Bushido and pots. That's pretty sad I can survive almost every gank with a character with 0 Healing or cross heals, but it's "balanced". Keep advocating that people are bad because even though it would force me to use other ways of survival and adapting..I would! And I'm the field I'd be just as lethal on that character. This game is so easy it's funny. They added splintering and my deathstriker became gross. I'd play much more often if I wasn't forced to play a Parry Mage. I have one it's just fkin boring! I can go afk and never die to an archer.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  42. PaithanTheElf

    PaithanTheElf Lore Keeper
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    LoL. He died to this char in a group fight and comes here to complain about it. Classic blazing.
     
  43. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Well, I think there's one thing most of us can agree on is that all it takes is one or two changes to produce effects across the spectrum of templates and playstyles. So please, make a very few focused changes, test them thoroughly, implement them and see what happens. Don't ffs make a raft of changes that require everyone to rebuild their suits and templates, only to have exchanged one set of balance issues for another.
     
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  44. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Master
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    We started this to add diversity to the game. People play archers and parry mages for a reason. They're the best.

    You need to ask why they're the best and the most simple solution to balance and add diversity.

    Archers: Can't disarm, easily reach max swing, 50+ damage AI, 10 tile cushion and for some running shot was an issue

    Parry mages: 30sdi, can't hit combined with wrestle/Anat, ability to have high output offensive arsenal.

    Running shot and disarm have been tweaked but still leaves them leagues ahead of templates in terms of their damage output and cushion. A simple tweak to armor ignore in pvp for ranged weapons would even the playing field with other melee templates. No suits ruined, no templates destroyed and most importantly no PvMers harmed.

    I believe the easiest solution to tweak a parry mage would be to add in a HLD type hit spell that lowers parry chance only for 1 tile weapons. It would guarantee a parry mage could be eventually hit while not taking anything away from their template. No suits ruined, no templates destroyed and no PvMers harmed.

    Combine this with the added 20sdi buff for playing a mystic mage or necro mage and I think this would be a great step in balance.
     
  45. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Stratics Legend
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    You started this to add diversity to whose game, yours. Did you ever consider how it would affect others game play, no, you only care about your playstyle. You need to think about how this affects everybody and not just a select few.
     
  46. elster

    elster Journeyman
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    We get it, frodo. Some PVP changes may affect PvM. Are you suggesting no changes at all? Not quite sure what you are getting at here.
     
  47. CovenantX

    CovenantX Crazed Zealot
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    The point in updating combat changes is to bring use to templates that are not being played or are being underplayed. -Diversity

    Most of us have considered how the changes would affect other aspects (most suggestions so far wouldn't have).

    We (most of us) have been thinking about how this affects everybody. -It was probably some random player sending an e-mail to the Dev team, with a list of suggestions that they didn't bother sharing with the stratics community... now we're here with an update that is far less liked than the previous version, (the previous version would have had 0 negative effects on Pvm, crafting or any other aspect of UO other than PvP- it wasn't perfect, but it was so close to it....)

    You're not alone, even the pvpers are with you in hating this version of the combat changes.
     
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  48. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Stratics Legend
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    When it adversely affects others, hell yes. There were some suggestions that a minimal affected PvM and that can be worked around but please when you start reducing things like SSI or proposing stat caps at a much lower stat that seriously affects PvM. Not everybody that plays UO wears a MAXED OUT SUIT that costs 10-20P. Why is Tactics such a big deal, you either have it or you dont that is your choice. What it appears is that they want the benefit of it without having it so they can use those skill points on something else, that seam a little greedy to me, I want but I don't want to pay for it type of thing.
     
  49. drcossack

    drcossack Crazed Zealot
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    How did most of the proposed pvp changes affect pvm? They didn't, outside of the devs adding that stupid SSI change. The only pvm-related change (which also affects pvp) was the hailstorm one, and that was a BUFF. Tactics? Nobody in a pvm setting is going to drop the skill, for 2 reasons: 1) it lowers your overall damage, and 2) lowering your damage affects how much stamina/mana/life you leech.

    But hey, please continue to parrot the "this will affect pvm" argument, when we all know (most of) the changes won't.
     
  50. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Stratics Legend
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    I have 4 old skool melee chars (Swords, Fence, Mace and Archer) that I upgraded with 120 PS and added Chiv. The majority of my suits are from imbuing and a few pieces from loot with arties added when I can afford them and I think you will find that this is the standard suit that most people play with, not everybody has 50P to buy suits with We do have MAXED OUT **** and when people start proposing all the much lower caps it hurts. I will agree that the proposal that was before this was better but this one REALLY SUCKS and hurts the little guy hard.
     
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