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NEWS [UO.Com] Vendor Search on TC1

Discussion in 'UHall' started by UO News, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Really?! LOL! Even when flagged?
     
  2. pumpkin_escobar

    pumpkin_escobar Journeyman
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    It'd be nice if we can add pets too, new mag is mostly empty when I look for stuff and getting a stall takes to long
     
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  3. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
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    LOVE it. Thank you Devs.

    Yes, everything about it does seem very 'alpha'... basic and rudimentary. But over time It will become more polished and refined, I'm sure(I hope).
    My only major complaint about the design so far is the lack of ability to make purchases straight through the interface. Having to teleport around and search through the actual vendor's bags is sortof annoying. That aside, BEST ADDITION EVER.
     
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  4. Zane_Xander

    Zane_Xander Journeyman
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    You think this will lower prices?
    increase the middle man shopping?
    what hapens to sites like SUO?
    will luna they keep hanging them over the top prices on items?
    think there is going to be some hording... going on...:)
     
  5. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    1. SUO? Well unless there scripts can cover all of britannia and do it instantly, I think there good as dead
    2. Why even bother going to luna when I can shop from the comforts of my own home. I guess now you don't have to pay those outrageous prices for vendors anymore since you can have your own vendors out in the middle of nowhere
    3. Hoarding? There will always be buying and marking up in UO
     
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  6. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    First off, after 11 years, I am happy we have this option. Those third party sites are disgusting and cater to Luna.
    Secondly, this is not a question looking for an answer, why would anyone want the highest cost to be displayed first? A seller would want that. But as we know, these sellers are beyond over priced. When I shop online, I tend to set my preferences to the lowest price first, ......common sense.....retail is so marked up, just for profit....same in Luna.
    Thirdly, we don't have to venture to Luna and trip over those books every five steps.....keep the lower prices first and force the greedy sellers to reduce.....if one pays mega millions for an item, you're either a fool, or you're spending real life money on pixels......
     
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  7. Thrakkar

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    Well, they can script the new vendor search and thus have access to all vendors, who haven't opted out.
    I don't think that they will die, but I can imagine, that sales could quite suffer.
     
  8. Thrakkar

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    Yes. A lot more vendors will be able to be reached with the in-game system. More vendors means more competition. Usually more competition is quite healthy for an economy.

    Why? There is already an external vendor search. When adding an in-game one, nothing should change in this department.
     
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  9. Smoot

    Smoot Stratics Legend
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    overall top prices will go slightly down because of competition. the range will diminish tho, so in general average price will go up creating slight inflation.
    Now:
    5 Crimsons in luna 42mil - 38mil, 3 crimsons not in luna 31mil
    After search: 8 crimsons 40mil - 36mil

    yes its going to be easier for the 5 or 6 very diligent people on atlantic to buy and resell, it will also be easier for non-luna shops to charge higher prices (which is a good thing for the seller, bad for the buyer and the reseller)

    my 2 cents.
     
  10. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Stratics Legend
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    Until we can search all shards at the same time and they enhance the way in-game search works those sites will stay. Try searching for any resource, very, very hard to do.
     
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  11. Orich

    Orich Seasoned Veteran

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    You are all underestimating how much top-end wealth exists in Luna.

    There is nothing stopping those over-priced luna vendors from buying out all the low-priced vendors and keeping the market cornered in Luna.
     
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  12. Spiritless

    Spiritless Sage
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    As long as they're paying me the price I've deemed my goods to be worth through my vendor, I couldn't care less what the buyer does with the item to be honest.
     
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  13. Orich

    Orich Seasoned Veteran

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    I didn't insinuate that sellers would be mad that their items are selling for the prices they ask.

    I mean to say only that this imagined re-balancing of the economy isn't going to be so drastic.
     
  14. Spiritless

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    Orich: Fair enough. That's a reasonable assumption and you're probably right. Still, there's more chance people will be able to acquire items cheaper with this system than the current one so it's all good. :)
     
  15. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
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    Exactly. If the little guys get bought out repeatedly by the big guy, then the little guy's business is doing good. Plus with the whole map thing, a buyer can instantly see if the item is at a luna vendor and can choose to buy or not. I don't think I'll be the only one boycotting luna now that everyone in the game has a fair chance to sell their goods. What we may well end up with is a luna that is jam packed with goods that simply sit there and don't sell.

    Also, if the Luna tycoons are relentless in buying things up, that's great news for the little guy because it means his wares are in *constant* demand and will turn a very quick profit.
     
    #115 Elric_Soban, Dec 21, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
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  16. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Without turning this into much of a classroom, if people are still willing to pay the new prices, then the first vendors were underpriced. In microeconomics, the difference is known as the "consumer surplus."

    A prime historical example is when Herbert Dow competed with a German bromine cartel by letting them think they were competing. "Die Deutsche Bromkonvention" threatened massive price-cutting if Dow or any other Americans tried selling overseas. Well, Dow had his new process to make bromine more cheaply, and he wanted to sell to anyone he wanted. The Germans made good with their threat, selling at a price below anyone's production cost. Dow told his agents to buy up all the bromine from the Germans, then resold the bromine at the normal market price.

    In the end, nobody's being forced to pay any price, and it goes to whoever is most alert as to what is available and what others are willing to pay. Once I made a rather large number of spellbooks and gave away minors on my vendor, so that a newer player could make use of FC1 or an orc slayer. Then I found them, not free, on someone else's vendor! They weren't selling at all, and in the end the effect was the same that I got rid of them, but I stopped giving them away because of who I wanted to get them.
     
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  17. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    There will be those who spend their days looking for goods to buy cheap and sell higher, that won't change. What will change - is that now everyone has an equal opportunity to sell whatever they want, WHEREVER they are. Got a small home deep in the Trinsic jungle somewhere? Np... Your vendor will show up just like everybody elses and people can insta-port to your home... Wala! What a great boon to the economy. I frankly don't care if the rich 1% continue to buy up and sell all those expensive items... Let them run around and gather up whatever they can beat everyone else to, so what... They aren't looking to buy the cheaper items that the vast majority of Sosarians need, and that's where this Vendor Search will shine. There will finally be lots of great stuff for the AVERAGE player to find, and nobody's gonna buy it up.... ;)
     
    #117 startle, Dec 21, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
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  18. Orich

    Orich Seasoned Veteran

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    Do you boycott Walmart, Target, Home Depot, McDonalds, Sears? Are these companies deserving of being boycott solely on the premise that they put out small mom & pop shops?

    Luna isn't as "evil" as you might expect. It's a social and economic hub, and heavy investments have been made by the vast majority of owners in Luna to maintain homes there. Luna houses have sold for many thousands of dollars, with no chance at the investment being recouped by ~200k/week vendor prices.

    If you want to boycott specific vendors because of their zealous greed, then I'm with you. But not everyone is out to charge 200% market for everything :)

    While Dow's bromine story is a very famous one, I don't really see how the example is relevant in this context -- even to explain consumer surplus (the Keynesian term for cost savings, which is probably better suited for us).

    No one is using predatory pricing tactics to put Luna out of business... But if someone throws up a 120 Magery scroll for 15mil, and the market leader is charging 20+mil for them, it is easy and worth it for him to corner that market to keep the prices where they benefit him.

    This was my only point. Not that anyone would be any more or less happy or satisfied.
     
  19. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    My point was in my first paragraph. People need not be concerned about Luna vendors buying out cheaper ones to "corner the market." If Luna vendors can really do that, then the original vendors were underpriced to begin with. Using Dow was in the reverse sense, that when two parties are competing, ultimately they'll arrive at the price that buyers are willing to pay.

    "Consumer surplus" is not a Keynesian term, you know. I myself am Austrian and use it in its purest microeconomic sense.
     
  20. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    While hoarding has always been a concern, I feel like the vendor search does far more good for the game than it does bad. Suddenly location doesn't matter; anyone can be a shop owner.
     
  21. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
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    Uhhhh, yeah?

    Yes! Economics 101 - Competition drives prices DOWN.
     
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  22. Piotr

    Piotr Stratic's Finest
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    The reason is, that the vendormap is top-down view, the radarmap is angeled 45 degrees, which is the right way to display it in an isometric world.

    The pin, marking the vendor, is placed in the center of the map. That woulden't change if you just rotated the map 45 degrees.

    But if you skew a Square 45 degrees in both the Z and Y axis, (that's how you make an isometric grid) the topleft corner moves - in this case - 20 tiles South and 20 tiles East, which would be in the center, if the Square is 40x40 tiles.

    Well, it still doesn't make much sense, as the map covers much more than 40x40 tiles, however, the game window, if it had the same with as its hight, would cover around that number of tiles.

    I give up!

    I'm sure they'll fix it. ;)
     
    #122 Piotr, Dec 22, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  23. Orich

    Orich Seasoned Veteran

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    You may want to go re-take that "Economics 101". Do you think the guy selling TVs on Craigslist is forcing Bestbuy to lower their prices? Economies of scale.

    And let's be real .. you don't boycott any of those companies. You live in a free market and enjoy the fruits of it. I'm sure you spent your Christmas money at at least one of those stores on Black Friday.


    John Keynes was a British economist, not an ethnicity.
     
  24. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Can we please leave out the economics lectures and concentrate on playtesting the vendor search function on test center?
    We are here to pinpoint bugs, anomalies and possible inprovements to the feature, not correct the world's economy. Neither Sosaria nor Earth.
     
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  25. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    I dont expect a big change, especially on smaller shards. As a seller, i always need to check how much other ppl are selling their items so i can price mine. We all know that small shards doesnt have alot of items for sale (compared to ATL) so searching *all* shards at once is very, very, very useful if we want to find a price check. So, I will continue to use the external search site because its really useful.

    In my opinion, the devs should just have published a vendor list web service (REST or json format) and build a web site like the one that currently exists. That way, there wont be any limitations on the search (shards, guardzones, etc). Or, they could just give permission to that web service to a few ppl that would want to build these sites, so the dev doesnt even need to waste time on something that already exists or, more important, on something that some other ppl can build faster and better (because, building a search engine isnt a trivial thing)
     
  26. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    One TV has minimal marginal effect, of course. Someone selling one jar of Powder of Fortifying for 25K isn't going to drive down the typical price. His point, however, is completely correct, not just in and of itself, but with specific relations to the game. There won't be a "Luna surcharge" because people will pay more instead of searching, and there won't be much business left from merely owning a house in Luna and renting out vendors. One can set up a vendor east of Britain, or in the Fire Island jungles, like in the old days.

    I'm not referring to ethnicity or nationality. I said "Austrian" as in the Austrian School. Not many are familiar with it.
     
  27. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    There will be no reason to use a third party site but I am sure some people will continue to use them in there limited capacity. I can say for myself there is no reason to visit a site and wade through there highly priced gold ads to find something that will only show up in luna. Your price checks will only be luna prices as before and you will be missing out on those deals if your not using the in game search. I guess time will tell but regardless this is an awesome addition.
     
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  28. Riyana

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    The third party search sites still have much more functionality than the new vendor search. For a lot of items, yes the new search may be an improvement, but for some it is completely useless. It's a promising start but it still needs a lot of work.

    While I like that you can be very specific about the gear you are looking for, armor and weapons seem to be the only thing the search will do. Even so, the search should be for the specified stat you input and above, not just an exact match. For example, if I want an item with at least 3 strength on it, I should be able to put '3' in the search parameters and get everything with 3 and up.

    -A search for "recall" yields pages and pages of free shop runes and I have to wade through all of that to find recall scrolls. Not worth the time. There should be a better breakdown of resources and non-armor/weapon craftables/consumables.

    -Speaking of free shop runes, you can't search by the shop name (that the rune creator entitled the rune). Nothing that the seller has as description seems to show up in the search. This can be important on certain items. Adding a parameter that searches seller description would be nice.

    -In fact, nothing in a lot of items' actual descriptions seems to show up either. I tried to search for Age of Shadows items. "Age of Shadows" got nothing. The individual names of items I found on AoS items for sale did not show up either.

    -You can only search your own shard. There should be options to search or not search each or all facets and each or all shards. (This alone will keep third party sites going, as they search all shards. While I personally don't care for the way that shard hopping is currently managed, it is clear that the UO economy is not shard specific anymore.) Furthermore, not all accounts have access to all shards! There are plenty that can't get into Ter Mur and probably quite a few still that can't get into Tokuno lands.

    -A search for 'artifact' only turns up Minotaur Artifacts? It would be nice to have more browsing capability here.

    -As other have stated, there should be an option to go highest to lowest price OR lowest to highest. Some searches you may wish to jump to the highest if you know that what you want is going to be pricier but the search limitations clutter what you are looking for with lower stuff.

    It looks like they just took the menu for imbuing and turned it into a search function. I can only speak for myself, but I hardly ever buy armor off of player vendors. I either make it myself or someone else makes it for me. This search seems to heavily favor armor and weapon searches, but I suspect that most player vendor sales are not armor and/or weapons.

    I'm really glad to see the devs working on this, but I think it has quite a ways to go.
     
  29. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
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    Real world economics does not apply to a video game. Look at any other MMO with an auction house, like WoW for example, and you will see that easy vendor access actually drives prices UP. If someone is selling Forged Pardons for example, for 3 million gold a piece, why would anyone else want to miss out on that money, they will price at 3 million also, and those fools that price them cheap? Well, easy to simply buy it and place on a vendor again at a higher price for a profit. Undercutters don't last long in a video game marketplace because all their cheap stock simply gets bought up and resold at higher prices.

    Everyone now has a Luna vendor, so prices will go up to Luna levels on a worldwide basis. I am sure some people will opt out of global search so they can still maintain bargains. But such bargains will be few and far between.
     
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  30. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    It already does exactly what you want, exactly as you stated....

    Petra has already started a thread for this (where the dev's can see the requests/suggestions in a single place, that thread is in the TC forum, here.

    Here is the thread for voting (and comments) for high-to-low or low-to-high... ;)
     
    #130 startle, Dec 22, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  31. Andrasta

    Andrasta Goodman's Rune Library
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    Does it pick up the New Magincia Market Stalls?
     
  32. Riyana

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    Oh nice. I didn't see it when I was playing with it earlier, but I see it now. :)
     
  33. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    What you're describing here isn't the competition he's talking about. He's talking about competition among sellers, which does drive down prices. Arbitrage is different and, sure, decreases the consumer surplus while bringing up prices for sellers.

    As the science of how we deal with limited resources, economics has core principles that are as inescapable in UO, WoW or the "real world," just as gravity is inescapable to us. Why do you think it's any different for undercutters in the real world? If I'm a trader offering February light sweet crude for $90, let's say in a quixotic attempt to drive down certain entities' profits, but the rest of the world is willing to buy at $99, I'll be bought out quite quickly by pure speculators. If I regularly price something on a UO vendor below what buyers are willing to pay, I'll naturally be bought out by those whose business is reselling.

    Some people, however, want to move stock quickly. Perhaps they want to get rid of something, perhaps they need the quick revenue, or perhaps they're doing it for the long-term to maximize profits. Am I talking about UO, or am I talking about the real world? It doesn't matter.

    "Everyone now"? You realize that were that the case, then by definition they're already selling at "Luna levels." If you're using hyperbole, even so, this is a great opportunity for anyone to set up a 7x7 dirt patch to sell anything. There will no longer be a Luna location premium, and the worst case scenario is that there won't be any fewer sellers. Perhaps the smallest shards won't be impacted much, but Luna house owners on larger shards won't have a business just from renting vendor stalls.
     
  34. a slave girl

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    Tip to get a New Mag stall, bid 10 million gold. Yep, that's what it's gonna cost you because that's how much my high bid is on my stall. Well, you'd need to bid 10 million and ONE gold.

    :)
     
  35. Sophi

    Sophi Adventurer
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    Absolutely wonderful!! I like it, it's simple and elegant and easy to use. :)

    Just one little thingy.... cant customize my house.. is that turned off on test atm?
     
  36. Sophi

    Sophi Adventurer
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    OMG!!!! i did not know that was an option, going to go try it out.... I LOVE IT EVEN MORE!!

    5 mins later.....
    Ok i tried it. Well right clicking in classic client just closes things, lol. I got no menu on a single click either, but when i tried to use recall on the map it did try and take me somewhere... tried out 3 different maps - on two of the maps i got msg that something was blocking the location, one of the maps took me somewhere out in the boonies instead of luna city where it was supposed to go......
    Are they meant to be used like recall runes? That would make those of us with vendor malls out in the wilds very, very happy...
     
    #136 Sophi, Dec 23, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  37. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Why? just pick an empty stall and bid 1k on it. That's all I paid for my pet stall, and my 'bid match' has been untouched ever since.
     
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  38. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    When I first got a map I tried to cast recall on it and it just gave me the "something is blocking the location message".
     
  39. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
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    you have to use the context menu on the map to go to the vendor (I shift left click because I have the option to use shift to bring up the context menu checked in options - most people don't - most people just left click to bring up the context menu)

    the map is effectively a recall rune, however, it is marked directly underneath the vendor, inside the house, that's why you can't recall off it - you're trying to recall into someone's house
     
  40. Sophi

    Sophi Adventurer
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    ahhh!!! i see, not sure why the left click didnt work when i tried it before but i've got it now.... a thousand gold seems a bit steep though....
    thx Kojak

    p.s. I think the re-use option is glitchy - it re-directed me to "safer location" just outside my house.
     
    #140 Sophi, Dec 23, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  41. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
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    I have an old rune marked in the courtyard of my castle before they made it so you couldn't recall into castle courtyards which gives me the same exact message when I recall off it - I get redirected by strong magics

    you basically get put on the spot where house runes go to that you've marked inside your house
     
  42. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
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    if the menu doesn't come up the first time you click on it, pick it up and drop it in a different spot in your backpack and then try again - it should work the second time - it's the same problem that you run into sometimes with the 10000 gold ticket to get into the prism of light dungeon - you have to move that one around a little too sometimes to get it to work and allow you into the dungeon
     
  43. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Certifiable
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    It's no more than a shortcut. Pure convenience.
    Kill 1-2 mobs and you have your gold back.
    One could still run all they way, though...
     
  44. Voodoo Bad Mojo

    Voodoo Bad Mojo Lore Master
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    so what is the best way to search for power scrolls?

    i just logged in and typed power scroll taming.... nothing
    scroll taming.... nothing
    exalted scroll of healing.... nothing

    i cant seem to find the proper way to phrase that im looking for a scroll, anyone?
     
  45. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Gilfane

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    For now (and I'm very sure that they will modify the search so that yours will work asap), just type exalted and they'll all pop up for ya'....
     
  46. Thrakkar

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    Searching with a name is quite odd.
    Either you can search for "legendary" (or whatever level you want to look for)
    Or you search just for the skill, i.e. "taming".

    I just have been searching for "exalted scroll of" and found "an exalted scroll of focus".
    I searched for "focus" and also found the very same PS.
    But when searching for "exalted scroll of focus" I do not get a single result.
    Looks like that part is buggy, since it doesn't make any sense, not to find anything then...
     
  47. Voodoo Bad Mojo

    Voodoo Bad Mojo Lore Master
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    ya but i dont wanna have to sort through 100's of scrolls to find the one i want.
    this is gonna be ugly on ATL if you type exalted.
     
  48. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
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    I already posted the entire reason why you can't search for powerscrolls with extremely good technical information - search for my post on the vendor search thread
     
  49. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Kojak: While I do commend you for your work in determining some of the details of searching, there's one or two of those that I have to question slightly. Here's the post I believe you're referring to:

    Actually, you can search and find powerscrolls without using your exact syntax. For instance, a search on Legendary will show all Legendary Powerscrolls. Also, a search on Mysticism will (after you get thru a couple of screens of Mysticism spellbooks) show you Mysticism powerscrolls. So they have to have both Legendary and Mysticism assigned (somewhere in the code) to a Legendary Scroll of Mysticism, since a search on either of those picked up the ps's...

    I think that in the end it won't matter - as I have confidence in the dev teams ability to continue to improve Vendor Search into the future, where I suspect they will add the Power Scroll and BOD categories to the existing search options.
     
  50. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I'm thinking the easiest thing they could do is just add a preset button for us to search for power scrolls, maybe under misc.? shrugs :/. might also be nice to eventually have filters for things you do NOT want to see. not sure if that's been voiced yet, but like, NOT "cursed," lol. I'm trying to think of why anyone would explicitly want a search for a "cursed" item, except maybe on Siege since the cursed items are usually the best quality items.