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Vendor penalty is being bypassed

Discussion in 'UHall' started by gandolfofaol, Dec 9, 2008.

  1. gandolfofaol

    gandolfofaol Guest

    If any mod or dev doesn't know already and wants to know pm me.

    I propose a simple change.

    #1 Daily vendor base fee goes from 60 to 600. All those people, myself included, should pay more for storing BOD's.

    #2 Vendor fee on an item should be a fixed percentage commission fee when the item is sold. The percentage should be a minimum of 2%.
  2. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    1.WHY posting such a balderdash?
    storing bods in vendors IS ALOWED ! if you personal dont like it, DONT do it, simple ?

    2.the new verdor system, i posted on the first day that it is dullness.
    it helps no one except the cheaters/exploiters as it ever did :(
  3. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Grand Inquisitor
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni

    May 26, 2008
    Likes Received:
    In the old days, you could find a vendor with everything on it. All the carpentry items, all the smith items, you name it, they held it.
    Now?? not so much, darn hard to buy a yew table when ya need one sometimes :)
    Why? Low demand is one reason, coupled with merchants hesitance to load a vendor with slow selling items, and pay a daily fee for the right to do so.


    Make vendors fees simple, a flat rate 10% or 5%, taken out when item is sold. This way, the merchants can go back to stocking everything, without it costing them to do so. But, and rightfully so, IF an item sells, then the vendor gets his cut, the merchant his, the customer was able to find what he wanted, everyone is happy...
    Makes sense, and I really can't figure why it isnt this way already.

    And before you go to yelling that peeps will put stuff on there overpriced so no one will buy it, and just load vendors to abuse them for storage space, who really cares? We are penalizing a whole lot of peeps, and putting merchants (except the overpriced Luna guys) out of business, all to stop a handful of sploiters looking for any way to beat the system...

    I personally wouldnt care if half the houses had vendors being used for storage...since this way I believe would bring back the days of finding vendors loaded with furniture, with a full complement of scrolls, clothing, oddities, slow selling plants ya only want once ina while, you get the picture?

    Come on Draconi, make it happen! :)
  4. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    same what i posted again and again, you are 100% right.
    why 52 possible vendors with each of them carry 125 items for one house?????
    if they have anger because of vendor storage exploit, so what?? reduce the storage limit and reduce the possible max vendor per house.
    all what they did is, they tax the average player to death, so almost only exploiter use vendors in the last years.
    bad bad bad :(
  5. gandolfofaol

    gandolfofaol Guest

    Why are you so bitter? It's simply a request for a better gold sink that works with no way for abuse. This would also cause a fee to be charged for bod's sold from books.
  6. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    i am not bitter, this question about bod books on vendors apears 3-4 times per year
    if YOU personal have a gold sink problem, then go to luna there is a trash barrel, you can put ALL your checks in there, and voila, no more gold sink problem 4u
  7. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    we don't need a gold sink... especially one as lame as the one that exists. the one proposed is only slightly less lame.

    the days of trying to balance the economy are long gone... like, 7+ years long gone.

    there should be NO daily vendor fees. none. those fees only favor the rich.

    when i came back to UO, i had nothing. i got armor donated to me and went to doom. i got lucky and pulled a HoTM.... BUT I COULDN"T SELL THE FRIGGIN THING.

    i had no money to start a vendor and definitely not enough to keep the hat there sucking what little gold i did have hoping that someone would buy it.

    no, there should be sale fees only. call it commission for the vendor. and it should be higher than 2%... somewhere around 5% should do just right.

    i repeat: daily vendor fees only preference the rich - those who have massive amounts of gold and can set their items at insane prices and not worry about it not selling.... new players get the shaft (as usual).

    stop the stock tax
    have a sales tax only
    give vendors commission only

    call it whatever you want - it's better for everyone.
  8. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    You know any type of extra fee the vender pays will be payed by the buyer correct? All Items will go up to not only cover the sale commision but to earn extra income from it? Will have the effect of less venders and stock and 2x the price average on everything you buy now. No gold sink as that dont matter anymore the only people who will lose is the players with little money.
    They should just remove the penalty fees it's a dumb system.
    And Bod storage is legal on venders always has being or do you expect to store 100k bods in youre limited home or bank hoping to get enough bods someday to fill that large. (wont have room to store it all let alone even put lockdowns up)
  9. Tom_Builder

    Tom_Builder Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Dec 9, 2002
    Likes Received:
    I think it would be great to have a fee only if the item is sold. But I can see people loading tons of vendors with items and setting prices 50 times what the item is worth just to store it.

    On the storage of BOD's, I think that there should be a fee for any not for sale item sits on a vendor. I have tons of items stored at my home, just because they are not bods I have to use my secures and lock downs for them. BOD's shouldnt get a free ride.

  10. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    They dont the daily vender fee is applied for storing.
  11. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    arrrggg, why ?
    ok, for example YOUR house your storage, what whould you storage?
    a Bod with them you could get mayyyyybbbbeeeee sometime a good reward or a
    good brace or ring or waepon or what ever?????

    the result of a higher vendor bod fee would be, that most of the bod- collectors would trash the bods.
    i have +-2000 bods, or more i am sure, i collect them because maybe in a far far away future the Kr/SA client have a nice working crafter system, then maybe i have fun to do bods.
    (atm.the bods are in chests,because i have more room atm.but i also put bod-books in vendors from time to time)
    BUT if the bod-vendors would be to expensive, then i would trash all books.
    many other would also trash them,because there is no sense anymore .
    WHY people always want to hurt other players playstyle here on stratics.???
    are the cash for gold price to low atm?
    abandoned pvp player?
    banned scripter?
    all time have- not?
    i dont know :(

  12. gandolfofaol

    gandolfofaol Guest

    Anyone that mixes in all caps in there posts is a bitter and angry person imo. In case you weren't aware that is considered yelling. I didn't say do away vendor storage of bod's I simply think it should be done in a better way. As it stands now they are hurting the average player. Lets see I can sell a verite runic for 20 mil and be charged 120k per day till it sells or I can put filled bod that gives verite runic into a book and sell it for 20 mil and be charged 0.
  13. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Grand Inquisitor
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni

    May 26, 2008
    Likes Received:
    True, and no one is disputing that. In UO, as in RL, costs and expenses are passed on from the merchant to the customer. The point is allowing lower demand, lower cost items to be placed for sale, well actually, any item, without it costing the merchant an arm and a leg. Let the fee be 5% and be deducted from the sale.

    I place a bag of tables on vendor, priced at 100 gps....it sits for 2 months, no worries to me, since they are no longer costing me their sale price for em to sit there. You come along and buy them...you pay the 100 gps, the vendor deletes 5 gps, and i get my 95 gps =)
    everyone is happy.
    Gold sink? who cares...
    Joe Blow overpricing items and using a vendor for storage? who really gives a rat's ass, it doesn't affect our game play and quality of life at all...
    Point being, carps, tinkers, smiths, clothing tailors, the casual player with a few old items (commemorative bags, 5 and 6th anny bags, prepatch collectibles, etc) that doesnt want to toss those things, can sell em over time, without the vendor fees suckin up whatever profit was to be made on em cause they had to sit there for 3 months to sell.
    Dont know how clearer I can make it. IF its the free vendor days you are worried about, X10 the cost of the rental contracts and employment contracts.
    But toss the damn fees, and implement a Point Of Sale commission...I cant believe yall did all that dang coding to track and enforce penalties, when this would have been soooo much better for everyone involved.

  14. :yell:
    It's a royal pain to pay any vendor fees at all. It's simple taxation without representation and a royal crock. I pay for my accountS and I paid for my houses and my vendors. It is an abomination that they want to charge me to sell my stuff - it's like paying taxes on garage sales! I don't use the vendors to store my stuff - I'm a simple craftsman and like helping other people. It seems terribly wrong to have to pay for someone else's exploits.

    Just in case you don't know, I've had vendors in this world for 10 years. I still disagree with the 'gold sink'.

    And while I'm at it - this newest trick of charging for putting something back on the vendor - while it should work in principle - does not. I still have items in my pack that are trying to charge me after a couple of weeks.

    And furthermore - why can't we move things from one vendor to the other anymore? What is the point in this mod? It sure makes life difficult for the little guy.

    Go throw your 600 gp on the ground at the bank if you're so eager to get rid of it. Leave us alone!

    Napa Valley
  15. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    They get charged. It's still a 20mil item they still get charged for it. The only times a book doesnt get charged above the base vender fee a day is when it's not for sale. Even if this was a way around it I dont see the reason to penalize horribily every single bod collecter in UO because of a couple people selling it this way. Thats like saying we should remove all pvp because my character was killed by a guildmate who joined just to kill me in trammel.
  16. gandolfofaol

    gandolfofaol Guest

    If I price a bod in a book and then someone buys the bod not the book I get the gold and there is no vendor fee. I've sold bod's like this for years and only pay 60 gp a day in vendor upkeep.

    Besides the change I was proposing really has nothing to do with bod storage I'm fine with that. I just think if they are going to have a system they need to implement it in such a way as it treats everyone equal. The current system does not. The title of my post has to do with people being able to sell for example a Magery 120 power scroll for 15 mil and being charged 0 in vendor fees and no vending penalty.
    They make it harder for honest people to use vendors and don't stop the exploit.
  17. I am not going to comment on the bybassing of fees but I would lend credence to the thought that daily fees do hit the lessor merchant though.

    I used to run a fairly popular vendor house, nothing stellar but alot of consumables, tools, repair deeds, bardig deeds, spellbooks, scrolls, kegs etcetc along with a variety of weapons and armor I accumulated and created.

    I wasn't rich, wasn't looking to get rich, didn't have million dollar items...

    The new vendor fees wnet live, and I simply could not keep up to the fees, sure stuff sold but not like crazy... My part time playing/hunting wasn't covering the difference. I wasn't a greedy horder on hunts and allowed my guildmates to loot for the most part.

    So after a while, going broke, the vendor house went caput for no other reason than the fees driving me out of business... Thats that.
  18. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Then it that case they get away with it oh well it's just one type of item that is already rare to acheive not like they popping out with 100 high end bods a day "not counting the dupe period" it's better than the alternative they go on to sell those at the bank not using venders and the rest of us get it up where the sun dont shine in all essence a merchant nerf.
  19. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    100% THIS! I have lost vendors in recent days. They were paid up 5-6 days in advance, LAG was so bad I didn't bother paying again when time was up. I have no desire to replace them and restock the vendors, but I will cause people use my shop a lot.

    -It's very annoying having to bother with vendors that don't sell well.
    -I'm sick of getting charged penalties on items I SHOULDN'T be. (And this STILL hasn't been addressed by anyone "official". Don't worry, they fixed some plant bugs though that I'm sure was impacting much of the playerbase.)
    -And it was a royal PITA recently when I added a new vendor and couldn't just move the items down the line from one vendor to the next. NO. I had to completely redo about 20 vendors because of that stupid (and as far as I know unannounced) change.

    Finally, I DO not use vendors for bod storage. The OP's proposed increase to 600gp is beyond absurd.

    This isn't to say I'm unhappy with UO overall, I've actually been enjoying it again lately, but the vendor issues and lag are seriously taking some of the fun away.
  20. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    I totally agree... The stock tax is awful. Games are supposed to be fun. There is nothing fun with paying gold to have a vendor sit there in hopes of a sale on our deserted shards.
  21. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Dec 6, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Make a list of the items most frequently seen stored in bulk on vendors priced so high that people suspect it's just being used for storage.

    Charge fees on stocking those "premium" items. If they're hot sellers, they'll sell anyway and a fee for a couple of days is no big deal. If they're just being used for storage, you will have to be willing to pay storage fees basically.

    An idea.
  22. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 1, 2008
    Likes Received:

    Actually...not using caps or sporatic usage of such can also be interpreted often as an issue with disability...not just emotion. Please be 100% sure of this if you would when you make assumptions...some might not take too kindly towards your interpretation.
  23. gandolfofaol

    gandolfofaol Guest

    Actually in the post I was referring to it wasn't sporadic. Certain words were all caps for emphasis.
  24. gandolfofaol

    gandolfofaol Guest

    To all who have posted. I'm fine with no base fee. Simply charge a commission. While they are at it lets not call it a gold sink. Lets call it a tax and make it work like the donations. As the income from a shards "Tax" goes up add new decos to different cities through out the lands.

    FYI for those who claim the "new" vendor fees are causing you to not be able to run a low-budget vendor here are some things you may or may not know.

    #1 If an item is priced for less than 500gp there is no change to your daily vendor charge.
    #2 If your selling bulk items and you don't sell them fast enough to make a profit you are either a. pricing them to high or be selling them in quantities people don't need/want.
    #3 The reason they made the change to moving items from one vendor to another without taking them off is because that was a way of avoiding vendore fees.
    #4 The people who say they aren't greedy are the ones who seem to be complaining the most about the new fees. People are complaining because they want squeeze every "penny" out of their potential customer at no cost to them.
    #5 If you have a vendor in a low volumn traffic area then don't sell high priced items or drop lots of runes when you stock.

    What I'm getting from this whole thread is you want to be able to sell something for 2 million even if its only worth 50k.
  25. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    No bod vendors are legal storage and there should not be any more vendor tax at all we pay too much vendor tax as it is leave those of us who store our bods on vendors alone.
  26. I already paid my storage fees...it was the price of the house.
  27. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Dec 6, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I do think though that if you have 20 NPC vendors on your porch all packed with items you clearly don't intend to sell (because of prohibitive prices or whatever) you should pay some form of penalty for that which doesn't hit people legitimately trying to move and sell objects useful to others.

    Just my opinion, I know not everyone would agree.

    Besides, you're kinda starting to sound scary, like one of the dismantle the IRS type people. :D

  28. 1) I disagree. This may be true for one item, but if you sell anything, you are going to put more than one item on that vendor. I have a carpenter vendor. I pay 492 gp per day. This is to sell chairs and anvils, etc. Another vendor charges 1300 per day for other items.
    2) While I am sure your suggestions are well-intended, you don't always sell things every day. Some people like to have well-stocked vendors. You can't now because of the fees. I used to make every chair, every tool, everything you could make with a carpenter. It is too costly to stock all these items after you pay the vendor fees.
    3) I don't know where you get this. I never avoided paying these stupid fees. Just because you drag something from one vendor to the other does not eliminate the fee. It simply moves it from one vendor to the other.
    4) No one appreciates being called greedy. Just because you want a decent amount for the time spent making things others don't want to take the time to make does not make you greedy.
    5) You don't have to sell high priced items to feel irritated (an understatement) when you have to spend half your profits for something you totally disagree with - taxation without representation.

    And your last opinion is just type-casting. It also gets us down to the whole problem you have with this thread. You don't want to pay for something so you don't think anyone else ought to be able to make a decent profit off of it. Get over it.

    And don't forget - people like it when you throw your money on the ground. Go for it.
  29. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Jan 30, 2003
    Likes Received:
    I agree 100%.
  30. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Apr 2, 2006
    Likes Received:
    It is done this way because you would only need 1 account for storage, since you could rent out unlimited vendors and put an unlimited number of items on them at $100,000,000 each.

    They should reduce the rental % per day. This would encourage more people to sell things and make the game more alive.
  31. RoseBlue

    RoseBlue Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    May 25, 2008
    Likes Received:

    I TOTALLY agree with you : you explain very well what I've been thinking for a looong time...
  32. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Oh man didnt even think of that ok now am in favor of per sale fee and drop the daily fee. We all will have unlimited storage!!!
  33. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Grand Inquisitor
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni

    May 26, 2008
    Likes Received:
    1> YOu can't put unlimited number of vendors in a house, they have limits

    2. You can't put unlimited items on a vendor, they have limits.

    3. If someone did, exactly how does that affect you? Does it lower your fighting skill? or make your mana regen less? IF someone was taking advantage of that to get extra storage, how exactly does that mess up your gaming experience?
    With all thats wrong in the game today, dupers scripters, you name it, this is what we are worryin about? Fer cryin out loud, gimme a break!
  34. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Grand Inquisitor
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni

    May 26, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Sign me up!!!! :);)
  35. Borric

    Borric Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    May 21, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Maybe change BODs to become a crate when filled and cannot be put into BOD book.

    And the flat tax 5 or 10 percent when sold or removed by owner.
  36. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    capitalism solves.
  37. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 26, 2008
    Likes Received:
    What are the things the game tries to accomplish with a vendor fee?

    To limit the quantity of vendors people will set up?
    To attempt to level the playing field between causual and hardcore vendors?
    To attempt to discourage casual merchants to keep a focus on hardcore vendors?

    Or is there really a goal? Is it simply am optional toolset that people can use or not use as they see fit.
  38. daisuke

    daisuke Guest

    kill the vendor tax !!

    the devs just spend that extra gold on booze and women anyway xD

  39. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    i never sold bods,
    anyone can confirm this?if true,then yes i would say this has to be changed.

    for the whole vendor situation,i come up with an idia :

    1.each house (dependent on size) can have max 1-10 vendors
    (125 till 1250 different items should be realy enough)
    (7x7=1 vendor / castle/18x18 = 10 vendor)
    2.vendor collect fee if item get sold
    3.by positioning a vendor owner get a information like:"exploiting for storage item can be removed from GM) something like that.
    4.dayly vendor charge is still 30 gold(not a big deal,900 gold per month,should be reasonable also for vendor-newbe)
    5.Vendors only allow bod-books if bods are forsale !

    NEW Bod Attendant(a smith-assistant) for bod-storage(deed purchaseable at smith-shop)
    this "assistent " work like a special container, he has implemented special bodbooks
    each of them can hold 1000 bods.
    (each assistent with 1-10 books and assistens limited to 2 per house)
    (i am dreaming here: Bod-Assistent can be linked with other players B-assistens so, there could be a bod sharing-network)

    effect: more player will use vendors, and more player do bods
    all problems are solved
    just an idia :)
  40. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
    Stratics Veteran

    Aug 14, 2006
    Likes Received:
    Really? I have paid like at least a billion gold in vendor fees in past two years. I am not sure how that was of a benefit to me personally but it is good to know!

    Vendor fees are one of the biggest gold sink in the game. Yea a lot of people cheat to not pay their dues but still a truck load of gold gets spent on it.
  41. gandolfofaol

    gandolfofaol Guest

    Let me see if I can explain this better. A vendor can hold 125 items. If all 125 items are priced at or below 499 gp each that vendor is only charged 60gp a day. I discovered this nifty little feature because I sell sturdy shovels for 100gp each and only get charged 60gp per day. Easy way to store my shovels and occasionally someone buys and pays my upkeep.

    Most honest people probably had the same misconception as you. It is my understanding that vendor fees are taken out on a "regular" interval. What that interval is I'm unsure. It is either every 24 hours based on when an item is placed on Vendor A or Vendor A takes his/her fee every 24 hours from when he/she was placed. Which ever the case the timer is/was reset when an item was moved from vendor A to vendor B.

    I missed the part where I said I didn't want to buy something because of the price. And the part where I wanted to throw money on the ground. What I am trying to point out is that we have a vendor system and it did not work correctly. They fixed it and the fix did not correct the problem it only made it more difficult and confusing to the honest people. I still say its easy to avoid vendor fees and I am not in any way referring to BOD's or BOD books. I have a castle with 108 vendors and you know what they all have on them? That's right BOD's. Because I'm a bod pack rat and plus you get way too many tailor smalls as compared to larges and with smith its just the opposite problem too many larges as compared to smalls.