1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice
  3. Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Hail Guest!,
    Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
    Dismiss Notice

Why Item ID is important, and how to Accurately get VDP for any crafteditem

Discussion in 'UO Craftsman' started by Terek, Jun 21, 2000.

  1. Terek

    Terek Guest

    Thank you, Yade. This was a great post - very helpful. Plus, it's one of the first times I've ever seen anything encouraging about Item ID. I've been building it steadily while I work smithing since it seems to fit the character, and never fail to catch a little grief from friends for building such a "worthless skill." Of course, I do hope to have a vendor to use too someday, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for that house in Trammel...
  2. vortex168

    vortex168 Guest

    Another bit to add to the part about npc shopkeepers. Realize that the prices vary from city to city and, i beleive, vendor to vendor, so the method of using npc shopkeepers to gauge item quality should probably not be used. At GM Merchant (item id) i read a post that states that the price comes out the same as player vendors everytime it's done, however, seeing as i have about.....0 item id i can't verify this anytime soon. Awesome post Yade =P.
  3. Atvar

    Atvar Guest

    I have a chrater who is GM item ID and 93.3 arms lore. Neither skill seems to raise anymore since the patch for those who are teying now. At Gm I get the same price every time I use ID.
  4. Quicksilver

    Quicksilver Guest

    Great post Yade!

    Just as an addition to this, there is currently a list of max values for each of the main
    weapons available. Published by a player on siege...I forget his name.
    The list can be found here

    Has anyone considered selling top of the line weapons for a marked up price? If so
    what do you think is reasonable?

    So far I only stock weps that fall withing 8 points of the top value and resmelt any
    that are below that so no one that buys from me will think they got an *unlucky*
    GM weapon etc.

    Kauth Silvermane [WBC] - GM Smith / GM Tailor
    Chesapeake Shard
  5. Yade

    Yade Guest

    i have been reading about the variance in item quality. this is very old news for those of us who played uo before the GM mark was placed on your item. and there are 3 ways to test your items. before i list them make sure you do it correctly or you will be posting a useless message here saying it didn't work when the truth is you just didn't follow instructions correctly.

    #1 a player vendor, this means a vendor that you stock with merchandise. this can be your vendor or a friends vendor. you place the item on the vendor and hit escape. you will receive a long message from the vendor that only certain items can be marked not for sale. the vendor will then automatically place a price on the item. this is a very, i repeat very accurate way of determining the true price and item quality.

    #2 an NPC vendor, those of us who gm'd smithing long before there was smelting remember selling our junk to the blacksmith. and if you will remember that the blacksmith would almost always offer different amounts for the items. this was how we old players originally determined that an item was exceptional or not. kind of primitive "BUT BEWARE!!!!!!!!" the prices offered by the NPC vendor and the PLAYER STOCKED vendor are not compatible. they are a different scale. so when you hear people saying i have a 51 katana, they are referring to a PLAYER STOCKED vendor not an NPC vendor. you will have to establish your own new rating system for those prices.

    #3 item id, yes item id is a very accurate way of making these determinations, but once again. for those of you who missed the lecture on item id, until you reach a high level of item id (85 or above) you will have to id the item this way many, i repeat many times. to get the accurate price. in truth i was not confident with this method until my smith hit 95 in item id, and i would still id the item 4 or 5 times to get one price. even at 95, i would get the results of (50, 50, 50, 52, 50) if i did the id 5 times. so i would know that it was a 50 katana. ONCE AGAIN, this system will gernerate its own pricing scale, in my experience this pricing scale is very if not exactly the same as the PLAYER STOCKED vendor one.

    in conclusion, test carefully and for those of you without vendors yet, or a high item id skill develop your own test cases using the NPC vendors and then report all of your results. i also read a post about there only being a 1 gp difference in the katanas. well that could be the difference between a katana of ruin (48-50) and a katana of might (51-53). besides the prices derived this way are not likely to resort in real sale pricing.

    ps: the price given to you is derived from 3 factors (weapon durability, accuracy potential, and damage capacity) these have always been the under laying prerequisites for "exceptional weapons". so if you get a katana that qualifies as exceptional in one of these three categories it will be marked "gm exceptional" even though it may be "below average" in the other 2 categories. it closely parallels magic weapon enchantments, how many Supremely Accurate, Indestructable katanas of Vanquishing are there? well the chance of you getting one of those is about the same as a gm smith making a katana that is maxed in all three categories as well. just food for thought.

    my gm smith / gm miner's name is Smedlyn from the chesapeake shard.

    <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Yade on 07/17/01 11:19 PM.</FONT></P>
  6. Flagg (GL)

    Flagg (GL) Guest

    Nice post, This what forums was made for. Thanks allot.
  7. Kevin

    Kevin Guest

    I have been player vendor sorting weapons since the last patch. I now keep the 51 Katana for my warrior, let my mates and regular customers have the 50's and sell the 47,48 and 49's I resmelt the rest. I have only noticed the wide spread of prices on weapons all the armour prices seems to be within 3 gp.
    BTW has anyone produced a 58 Kryss or is this a typo? Best I have made is a 48.
    GM Smith Drachenfels
  8. Yade

    Yade Guest

    i have noticed that each weapon has a different max or high level, but if you do get one, that is alot higher than the rest id like to see it. because its possible you got really lucky in 2 or 3 categories in making it. very cool, very rare
  9. Behomet

    Behomet Guest

    NPC Vendors will offer you exactly one half the price they will sell the item for, if your katana was 50, than it is likely that the NPC vendors will offer you between 25gp for your katana. That is also how I priced items for my vendor or when selling them...I priced my wares exactly half way between an NPCs buy and sell price...this would ensure I make more money when selling to players, and it also ensure that players will pay less than NPCs when they buy from me...
  10. Red Star

    Red Star Guest

    Does anyone know what the quickest way to raise Item ID is?

    Red Star (GL)
  11. Yade

    Yade Guest

    i had to go from vendor house to vendor identifying everythig on the vendors. it seems that you can only gain skill from identifying an item once a day, at the higher levels anyways. but i now have a very good idea of where to go anywhere on felucca to buy something from a player vender. and it seems to me that i gained more frequently by identifying high dollar items and magic items. this is all my speculation from GMing the skill, i could be wrong. i also got gains frequently from iding secured containers in houses.

    good luck
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Just wondered if anyone else has this same problem...


    "A wise man learns to Think intelligently before attempting to Speak intelligently...", Zherak, Benign Dictator, [KMH]
  13. Yade

    Yade Guest

    [nt] = No Text
  14. Lee Kwan

    Lee Kwan Guest

    I am glad I GMed Item ID and Armslore before the Ren Patch came through

    Tank Ironside
    Grandmaster Merchant

    15th lvl Iksar Monk
    Sentinels of Chronos
    The Nameless

    Lee Kwan
    Silver Shadow Elder
    Silver Shadow Clan
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Any more questions? :)

    "A wise man learns to Think intelligently before attempting to Speak intelligently...", Zherak, Benign Dictator, [KMH]
  16. Yade

    Yade Guest

    i have to do some more research on the npc vendors, but my gut instinct is this: we have 2 very definite methods of dtermining this value and we can get to the truth through research on the NPC vendors, but you are going to need to conduct this type of research on multiple shards, because the economics are very different from shard to shard.

    im going to try it out later

    as for advancing in item id and arms lore i posted another idea on one of these responses. i have a real good system for advancing these skills legally. let me know if i should post it here
  17. Terek

    Terek Guest

    I would love to see a system for raising Arms Lore and Item ID. Feel free to post :)

    Terek of LS
  18. Just read a post in this forum asking for advice so here goes... I have had both GM Item id and Armslore recently. I let both drop to 50 to add in another skill (wish I hadn't now but it happens).

    Up to something like 25 you can gain skill by using the skil on the same item over and over...

    After about 25, both of these skills seem to raise the same way. You can't get an increase in skill from an item again until you have successfully rasied your skill on another item. (the same as lockpicking too come to think of it).

    Get yourself a bag full of weapons/armour (could be any items to train item id). That one with all of the magical weapons you're been saving for a rainy day will work fine. Item Id (or armslore) each one in turn. If there are enough items you should be able to get a two gains while working through the bag.

    I used UOAssist and two chests of 125 items each. I was getting a gain every 50th item or so even in the high 90's. Occasionally I didn't even get a gain from working through 250 items (the OSI randomiser strikes again). In that case I'd item id everything around me until I got a gain and then go back to my trusty chests.

    I can't imagine trying to GM Itemid without a nice long macro --you'd drive yourself mad. /forum_images/default/icons/disturbed.gif

    There is probably a limit to how many items are remembered by the game between item id attempts but I'm not sure what it is (something over 100 I think)

    Hope this helps...

    Ziggy Oceania
  19. buyalot

    buyalot Guest

    Yep, question is :
    Katana u sell might be 47,48,49,50,51
    What prices do you sell them ? 47,48,49,50,51 gp ?
    Seems like a lot of smith come in that forum and understand your explanations but what if I tell my customers : "Here is a 51/51 GM made Katana ... It costs 300 gp !!!"
    So, what prices do u use for the different items ? And can the price of magic items be related to GM xx/XX made items ?
  20. Yade

    Yade Guest

    before this type of thing can have a real effect on the uo economy it has to sink in. slowly but surely as more smiths learn of the concept it will become inseminated into the uo society. once the idea has a firm hold with at least the vetereans of uo it will become applicable. as of now you can try explaining it to a buyer, they may or may not get it. but once there is a buzz about the idea it will be come easier to talk to people about the different levels of weapons. then i'm sure the best katanas will be generally accepted as more valuable.

    i think i heard a smith say that he was putting the fraction on his items on his player vendor. so that will also help pas the word around as players are going to notice this and ask what it means. i hope that he left a little book in the vendor to help with this.

    FYI on a side note, as of the next patch the little purple books will be changing. when locked down in a house or on a vendor, the purple books will be read only. all other books will remain editable by all players.
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    can be supplemented by using id on the armour/weapons you see in your paper doll and in your back pack, adding more items to the range of things your using the skill on.
  22. buyalot

    buyalot Guest

    I found a max of 70 for longsword prices ... Has anybody ever made better than that ? I find no reference.

    For info, I decided to sell only best weapons, from 88% to 100% Item Id value, at a price up to 4 times the Max Item Id.
  23. drekken

    drekken Guest

    I've always been under the impression that the NPC given price reflected one factor alone. Maximum durability.
  24. Batir

    Batir Guest

    At a minimum it reflects the maximum durability and the current condition of the item. If by NPC you refer to shopkeepers (amorer's, blacksmith's and whatnot) then there are a couple other factors, such as how many s/he has in stock, and possibly how many nearby shopkeepers have in stock. If you mean player owned vendors, then it's the first two, and possibly some others (same for shopkeepers) that Yade has discussed on this board.

    <font color=red>"Any more questions?"

    Guildmaster of Grandmaster Merchants
  25. ob1bigbogey

    ob1bigbogey Guest

    I had a 72 once ;p for a Longsword, is there anywhere we can all post these findings?

    Live n Let Live /forum_images/uo/icons/spiny.gif
  26. Batir

    Batir Guest


    Looks like I will be doing a rewrite of the essay, mainly to add the percentages for plate, which I never got around to before, and to make some things clear, like needing to make a variety of items, even when only one is listed. While I'm at it, I want to add this to the essay. You did a good job of explaining it. So, first, mind if I use your write up of this, and second, if you agree to it, would you like to rewrite it, or take it as is? Not saying it needs a rewrite, but wanted to give you the opportunity to do it /forum_images/uo/icons/smile.gif

    <font color=red>"Any more questions?"

    Guildmaster of Grandmaster Merchants
  27. True ABBA...
    You can get to about 60 from just id'ing eveything you're carrying. You can get to 30 or so from id'ing the same item over and over too.

    One last thing. If you use UOAssist (as I do) then you'll have to record mulitple macroes. UOAssist will record a maximum of 67 item id uses (use skill, target, pause.....)

    Ziggy Oceania
  28. Yade

    Yade Guest

    ill do a rewrite as you see fit. email me with the details. thanks
  29. Giloosh

    Giloosh Guest


    "The lower you are the HIGHER you are"
  30. krafter

    krafter Guest

    So, what be the good word on the max for longswords? 70? 72?

    Also wondering how you smiths who display the weapon stats (e.g "51 katana") find your sales of the lesser GM exeps? I have given up displaying stats on any but the top two.

    Hemingray, AhPuch, and Krafter of GL
  31. Vidi

    Vidi Guest

    you are either:

    1: The biggest BS'er in modern history


    2: The most well informed smith/miner this side of the outer rim of the galaxy

    Im guessing its number two. You always have the facts. Though I still max out at 1500 ingots an hour as opposed to the 2k you get .

    then again im not counting the colored ingots.

    Good Luck and Good Hunting!
  32. John B

    John B Guest

    Indeed, a very interesting post Yade, so here are a few things I would like to add about the three categories you mention: damage, durability and accuracy.

    * I have noticed that when I arms-lore my non-exceptional katana's, I will get the response &quot;will hurt a fair amount&quot; which means 11-15 damage and when I do the exceptionals, I get &quot;will do quite a lot of damage and pain&quot; (16-20 damage). Haven't tested the below-average ones, but anyway my conclusion is: exceptional katanas do more damage and that's probably the only deciding factor for exceptionality in weapons.
    I did read here on Stratics that exceptional weapons do 4 points of extra damage, below average ones do 4 points less than normal, so you could say an excep katana would fall between a katana of might and one of force. In the next point I'll tell you why I don't think exceptionality of a weapon (quality) is reflected in the price it gets from a vendor.

    * After repairing a 51/51 kat a number of times, the price drops to 50. So certainly the durability factor is taken into account to decide the price. We all know that each time it's successfully repaired, a weapon loses one hitpoint. I also read on Stratics katana's can have from 31 up to 90 hitpoints. I haven't tested that, so I'm not sure how accurate that info is. Of course it would be possible to damage-repair-damage-repair a weapon till it hits zero and breaks. That way we could find out if exceptional or non-exceptional 50/50 katanas have the same durability or not. It would seem logical that exceps should get a better price from a vendor than non-exceps, but my findings seem to point the other way. I mean: for both categories, the top price seems to be 51 and I don't think the best non-excep would have higher durability than the best exceptional katana.
    Weird as it may seem, and of course I may be wrong (it has happened to me before), but it looks to me that excep or non-excep makes no difference to a vendor.

    The highest magical durability modifier, indestructable is +50 to item hitpoints. So if you get an indestructable katana, what do you have? An average durability katana of 61 hitpoints plus 50? Well, it would be nice to be able to figure out which magical katana a 90 hitpoints katana actually compares to...
    Should I find some spare time, I might test some spawned katanas to find out how many hitpoints they have and if they're all the same...

    * Now about accuracy: someone on this forum correctly pointed out that this factor increases the player's tactics skill, which only happens with magically enchanted weapons - never with player made ones. My conclusion: GM made weapons have no variable accuracy factor.

    So, only two categories... damage capacity decides if the quality is exceptional and durability defines the price.
    Too bad, but a GM smith won't be able to make something similar to an indestructable, supremely accurate katana of vanquishing after all. Nevertheless, the difference in quality between a 51/51 and a 40/51 katana is not to be underestimated since the more durable weapons keep their sharp edge for a longer time and will do a lot more damage over time.

    Well, for what it's worth, that's what I think. Of course part of it comes from what I read on Stratics lists and guides and may not be quite accurate anymore.

    GM miner/smith John B on the Europa shard.

    Guardians of Yggdrasil
  33. morgant

    morgant Guest

    First of all I am a newbie GM Blacksmith. I just put armor and weapons on a vendor for the first time. When you all are saying 50/50 katana, I am assuming the durability and the power the weapon will do per hit, but how do you get these number 50/50. The way I understand Arms Lore it tells you barely scratched, etc and it does not tell me anything other than the fact it is between this durable and that durability. I have no clue on how to get these number and would like to know how they were reached. I read the previous post and unless I missed something it does not tell you. Is there a website I can look at that tells me if I put the item on a vendor it he/she will mark it this 70 gold if it has this durability and this power behind it? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    GM Blacksmith Chesapeake
  34. John B

    John B Guest

    When you put a weapon on your vendor and click this weapon, before you price it, you see the value the vendor would automatically put on it. The highest value you can get this way for a GM made exceptional katana is 51 gp.
    Several smiths with different vendors have tested this extensively and independently and no one has come up with a higher priced katana, so we are assuming 51 is the max.
    That's the meaning of the second number: the highest possible. The first number is the price the vendor has given to this actual katana. So, when you see a 51/51 katana, you are looking at a katana with the highest possible number of hitpoints, the highest durability. For krysses, we have come up with the maximum of 49. Each weapon has its own maximum (and minimum). The same goes for armour, but the limits are much smaller there, you'll see.

    According to one of the Stratics lists, a newly made katana can have between 31 and 90 hitpoints. When you use a weapon, it gets damaged: it loses hitpoints. If it gets no repairs, eventually it will break. When you use arms lore on it, you'll see how badly damaged it is - for instance, at 90%, it is almost new. You'll find these numbers in one of the Stratics lists too.
    Now, after you've repaired the weapon, arms lore tells you it looks like new. But it isn't new! It was damaged and repaired, who knows how many times? When something is successfully repaired, its hitpoints are restored, minus one. Each repair, a hitpoint is lost. This new-looking weapon might actually be about to fall apart.
    Simple solution: pop the sucker on your vendor for a moment and see what the value is. A GM made katana in the top 40's is still in pretty good shape.

    The damage capability of a weapon is expressed in its quality: below average, normal or exceptional. Supposedly an excep can do 4 points more damage than a normal one, a below average 4 points less. You can get an indication of this with arms lore: about an excep katana it consistently says it will inflict quite a lot of damage and pain, a normal one only hurts a fair amount. These sayings and their actual meaning in damage inflicted are also somewhere to be found on Stratics.

    There are a few very good posts about the subject on this forum. For instance, the one on top of this thread, from Yade gives a good explanation how to do this: the different possibilities.
    Also, the thread started by Gemniknight, is a very interesting one.
    There's an article on Stratics as well... durability, I believe it is called.
    Then there's a post on the forum that gives some of these maxima for different kinds of weapons (I don't remember which post it was though).

    By the way, I also read this somewhere: GM made weapons get 10 hitpoints extra. So, this should mean for instance non-GM katanas should always get a price from the vendor below 51. I don't know if that is correct, but it is worth testing. I have no intention however of starting an new smith just for that. Uh uh.
    Maybe drop my smithing by a tenth? Nah.
    Nah nah nah.

    John B, GM smith on the Europa shard

    /shared/forum_images/beige/icons/livid.gif Guardians of Yggdrasyl /shared/forum_images/beige/icons/livid.gif
  35. Edane

    Edane Guest

    <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

    GM made weapons get 10 hitpoints extra. So, this should mean for instance non-GM katanas should always get a price from the vendor below 51. I don't know if that is correct, but it is worth testing.


    My blacksmith has a skill of about 85, and I have made 2 51/51 katanas so far.

    <center>[​IMG]</center><center><font color=purple>*With a flourish and a bow, exits, stage right*</font color=purple></center>
  36. John B

    John B Guest

    Thanks for the info, Edane. I would have liked to find some proof that GM weapons are more durable, but I guess there is no difference then.

    John B, GM miner/smith on the Europa shard
    Guardians of Yggdrasyl
  37. Airwalk

    Airwalk Guest

    ok this is all really new to me ive been a gm smith forever basically and only time ive bothered to use arms lore or item id is if i was checking a magic weapon/armor etc so one question, would it be just as good to have another char with gm armslore/item id thats not my smith as hes maxed out already with fishing n what not or do arms lore and item id give your weapons better quality? i was thinking about this a few weeks ago since arms lore is closely associated with smithing as anatomy is with fighting and eval is with magery i thought they may have slipped some bonus in or sumthing???
  38. John B

    John B Guest

    It makes no difference if it's on a different char at all. Most of us (if not all) would like arms lore to be to smithing what anatomy is to fighting, but it isn't.
    Arms lore and item id are two stand-alone skills with no direct effect on any other skill.

    John B
  39. Ahh Yade,

    You have revealed the secret! hehe

    For the question of what to you tell your customers..
    Place a book on your vendor explaining your methods of
    smitihing and the advantage of a 51 Katana. I have at times
    given demonstrations to people with a friend of mine (make sure
    you're in the same guild) to show the damage vs. damage.

    You will never get all UO players, but word does spread and over
    the 2 or so years I've played, I've built up a decent clientel that
    come to me by word of mouth.. I sell only top quality weps, armor
    shields.. Yes the quality check does work for all smithed items...

    I never duel without all top quality weps and armor and if you smith
    for a tourney, it could take you an hour or 2 to get all items top
    quality... be prepared to smith your rear off...

    A player vendor is the best option if you have no armslore or less than

    Darn it Yade!!! hehe.. hope noone on LS in the dueling circles see this!!!

    Ghengus Greene - GM Smithy/GM Miner and a decent fighter too!!
  40. Some of the weapons on that list at the link are off by 1 or 2 points..
    Most notably, the kryss.. it's top vendor price is 49 and the kat was 51.
    I think the War Hammer was off by one too, but would need to double
    check my trusty ole smithy book first...

    There may have been a couple of more off by one Gp. I've logged nearly every
    weapon, shield and piece of armor I've made for about a year or so.

    If only this method worked on potions aye?

    Ghengus Greene - GM Smith/GM Miner on LS
    Von.Krey - GM Smith/Miner on Baja
  41. molallaman

    molallaman Guest

    ok now maybe im doing something wrong ( not sure ) but after trying what i have read here ( i used krisses ) i made sevral put them on my vendor hit escape vendor put a price on it i got sevral that was priced at 46 some were as low as 33 but i got one that said 49 wnadering if im doing it right cause i thought i read 48 was max for a kriss (what am i doing wrong ) pls someone help me out here
    thanks in advance
  42. Yade

    Yade Guest

    its possible you discovered a new high for the kryss. remember that the chances of getting the max in all of the possible facets of a weapon is about the same as getting a supremely accurate, indestructable silver katana of vanquishing. when you consider that then i becomes very feasible that even our magic "51 for a katana" could be out done some day by a lucky smith. as it is just getting 51 is pretty rare.
  43. Hi Yade,

    I filter all my stuff for durability through NPC armourers.

    The FIRST thing I do is check what they are selling an average durability item for - you can get caught out, the price does vary occasionally. Divide that by half, and that is what you will be offered for an average durability item.

    I make say 6 of something, and put them into a bag in a neat row. Then get the price, and offer them for sale. The LAST item you put in the bag, is the first one listed on the buy in menu. The FIRST item in the bag is the last one listed - so it is easy to remove the ones that are not on maximum durability for resmelting.
    The difference in weapons is amazing - that edge keeps good for so much longer in combat, and it can take so many more repairs before becoming disposable.

    It works exactly the same for armour and shields too - a properly filtered set of armour, is an investment worth having as it protects you at a high level for so much longer, and you do not have to be a GM smith to get the benefits - it just takes longer to do, as you get less of a percentage of high durability items.

  44. Sarlacc

    Sarlacc Guest

    Oh, how I wish this were all true, however I will have to say that gm made weapons do not influence accuracy.
    I have a gm smith, and a gm warrior, so this whole issue has great interest for me. GM made weapons have more 'metal' in them (as you can see when you smelt them, you get more ingots back), and consequently have more durability and power. I use my top end gm weapons, and I notice the difference, as do all my friends and customers who use them. (I gave up using magic weapons ages ago).
    From what I have read, made, and tested it seems that gm weapons range from durable of ruin, to substantial of might. However, the top notch weapons (i.e. the 51/51 katanas) are equivalent to 'Force'.
    I smelt the low end weapons after valuing them on my vendor (e.g. katanas from 38-42gp), sell for 200 gp the katanas in the 43-48 range, and sell the 49-50 katanas for 450 gp, and the 51/51 katanas for as much as I fancy at the time. For larger weapons such as the halley I sell the top of the range gm flavour for 650. Personally I think they are worth more than this.
    Top quality gm weapons are excellent, and represent great value compared to magic weapons. You also have that added bonus of not having to fear about losing a mid range expensive magic weapon that you just purchased. Grab a few top gm weapons, and wade on in there!!!
    Oh, and I also make it clear on my vendor which weapons are which, and put the VDP and maximum possible value (e.g. 51/51) on the top notch ones, along with a wee little essay written in a book that is locked down on the steps of my house.
    As far as making weapons above Substantial of Force, hmmm, well I've made more weapons than I've cut bandages, and I know a few smiths, and I've never heard of anyone making anything above the already established values (ok, maybe the very rare 1gp higher occasion), let alone making one significantly higher that would raise the weapon to Power/Vanquishing.
    Oh, incidentally, a smith friend of mine noticed something the other day, which I also tried out. Now, this could be coincidence, or it may already be well known. Using a brand new smiths hammer when making that damn plate armour seems to work wonders on the success rate! :)

    Happy smelting all!
  45. Dragoon1

    Dragoon1 Guest

    I have been smithing a lot of katana's lately and was "lucky" enough to get a below average one. I checked the below average katana with arms lore and recieved a "Would do some damage." result.

    I have been VDPing every katana I have made for about two months and have not come accross a 51/51 average(meaning non GM) katana yet. So I must assume that the 2 51/51 katana's Edane made were exceptional quality, and also assume that exceptional quality items get +10 to their durability, not just GM items.
  46. Staxeon

    Staxeon Guest

    Hrmm...brand new smithing hammer gets better gains. I'm wondering if this is similar to the discussion in the fisherman's board about GM fishing poles getting better results at fishing up SOS bottles. Possibility of an exceptional hammer made by a tinkerer yielding better smithing results???

    <font color=red>Staxeon DeSange</font color=red>-Archer/Mage
    <font color=red>Pryan Adire</font color=red>-Tank Mage
    <font color=green>Syndrick</font color=green>-Knights Hospitaller Carpenter
    "We are dyslexic of Borg, refutence is sistile, your ass will be laminated"
  47. u_o sucks

    u_o sucks Guest

    <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by TobyOne on 03/24/01 04:53 PM.</FONT></P>
  48. Macimum

    Macimum Guest

    Where can i find the page which has the max prices for all the weapons?
    That would be really handy... That old link doesnt work anymore....